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Posted: 9/25/2014 5:40:56 PM EDT
Almost finished with a 308 Shorty Hunter and to the point when I need to think about glass...

I am a fixed power kind of guy but I want to be able to hunt dark deep woods and bean fields so a variable is the only option for inside 100 in the woods or out to 500 on the far side of a bean field if the shot presents itself I'll take it...so lets call that 0-600 for arguments sake...I have always used a 200 yard zero (hold over from the Corps) I am looking hard at the Nikon M-308 4x16 BDC reticule calculated for the SMK 168...or the SWFA 3x15 as I have 2 other SWFA scopes now and am very satisfied with them...

My bullet/load of choice is FGMM or its clone 41.7 gr of IMR 4064 with a 175 SMK, yes.... GASP...I use SMK match bullets to hunt with...never had a deer take more than another step or two and most DRT in their tracks

Does anyone know if NIKON makes a turret for the 175 SMK or if anyone else makes a mid range scope that uses the 175 ballistics? Using Strelok I find that they are so close its almost a dead heat...using 2600FPS for both as starting velocity and with BC's of .462 for the 168SMK and .496 for the175 SMK looking at the table below it seems like the NIkon with its 168 turret is almost or nearly close enough to run the 175...am I missing something? Over simplification?

****168***175
200 0" 0"
300 -8.9" -8.74"
400 -25.91" -25.28"
500 -52.36" -50.91"
600 -89.92" -87.01
Link Posted: 9/25/2014 9:54:37 PM EDT
[#1]
No, over-complicating it. In the grand scheme of things, a 4% difference(168/175) between the weights of the two bullets is irrelevant for most real world shooting environments. I defy any human being to tell the difference between the bullets, on a called shot, off-hand, based only on point of impact, at 400 yards. Shooter error, technique, wind, and other factors likely will have more effect on POI than anything else. If I were you, I would use something in 2 -10x with 40-50 mm obj. lens. for versatility to meet most of your needs.

On my rifle, it would be a 4-6 fixed power in a 40-50 mm lens. I've been doing it this way for 40 years, and it works, well.
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 4:54:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No, over-complicating it. In the grand scheme of things, a 4% difference(168/175) between the weights of the two bullets is irrelevant for most real world shooting environments. I defy any human being to tell the difference between the bullets, on a called shot, off-hand, based only on point of impact, at 400 yards. Shooter error, technique, wind, and other factors likely will have more effect on POI than anything else. If I were you, I would use something in 2 -10x with 40-50 mm obj. lens. for versatility to meet most of your needs.

On my rifle, it would be a 4-6 fixed power in a 40-50 mm lens. I've been doing it this way for 40 years, and it works, well.
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I have recently discovered the benefits of applying the military milrad system to hunting.  I am 64 years old and have been deer hunting since I was a teen.  Relatively low power 2-7x36 or 3-9x40) variables of high glass quality with simple duplex or German #4 reticles have served me well with a field zero designed around a maximim midrange trajectory of +3".  That usually gives me a point blank range of 300 yards, after which I use hold over based on experience, and usually limit shots to no more than 400 yards for humane, ethical reasons, due to dropping bullet energy and the limits of my own marksmanship beyond that.

But, I have found the use of milrad "come ups" and adjustable milrad turrets, as I have learned in tactical AR shooting now gives me confidence to accurately shoot to 500 yards.

A good reticle in such a scope can have an illuminated dot and thick duplex outside edge reticle stadia and work extremy well in low light and at lower power on running game.

I am now using a tactical Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9x40mm, 30mm main tube scope with Firedot TMR reticle for deer hunting on my .280 Remington bolt action.  I have developed the "come up" and windage dope for shots beyond 300 yards, and still use my regular point blank zero which is about 2.5" high at 100 yards. This works extremely well.  Old dogs can learn new tricks.  I am a milrad convert for shots beyond 300 now.  I still think 9x is plenty of magnification for deer size animals at 500.  Of course, most of my deer are still taken under 200 yards, but I can take the beenfield and power line right of way shots with confidence I did not have with hunting reticles (even with BDC marks) and closed cap turrets.
Link Posted: 9/27/2014 5:50:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I have recently discovered the benefits of applying the military milrad system to hunting.  I am 64 years old and have been deer hunting since I was a teen.  Relatively low power 2-7x36 or 3-9x40) variables of high glass quality with simple duplex or German #4 reticles have served me well with a field zero designed around a maximim midrange trajectory of +3".  That usually gives me a point blank range of 300 yards, after which I use hold over based on experience, and usually limit shots to no more than 400 yards for humane, ethical reasons, due to dropping bullet energy and the limits of my own marksmanship beyond that.

But, I have found the use of milrad "come ups" and adjustable milrad turrets, as I have learned in tactical AR shooting now gives me confidence to accurately shoot to 500 yards.

A good reticle in such a scope can have an illuminated dot and thick duplex outside edge reticle stadia and work extremy well in low light and at lower power on running game.

I am now using a tactical Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9x40mm, 30mm main tube scope with Firedot TMR reticle for deer hunting on my .280 Remington bolt action.  I have developed the "come up" and windage dope for shots beyond 300 yards, and still use my regular point blank zero which is about 2.5" high at 100 yards. This works extremely well.  Old dogs can learn new tricks.  I am a milrad convert for shots beyond 300 now.  I still think 9x is plenty of magnification for deer size animals at 500.  Of course, most of my deer are still taken under 200 yards, but I can take the beenfield and power line right of way shots with confidence I did not have with hunting reticles (even with BDC marks) and closed cap turrets.
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View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
No, over-complicating it. In the grand scheme of things, a 4% difference(168/175) between the weights of the two bullets is irrelevant for most real world shooting environments. I defy any human being to tell the difference between the bullets, on a called shot, off-hand, based only on point of impact, at 400 yards. Shooter error, technique, wind, and other factors likely will have more effect on POI than anything else. If I were you, I would use something in 2 -10x with 40-50 mm obj. lens. for versatility to meet most of your needs.

On my rifle, it would be a 4-6 fixed power in a 40-50 mm lens. I've been doing it this way for 40 years, and it works, well.


I have recently discovered the benefits of applying the military milrad system to hunting.  I am 64 years old and have been deer hunting since I was a teen.  Relatively low power 2-7x36 or 3-9x40) variables of high glass quality with simple duplex or German #4 reticles have served me well with a field zero designed around a maximim midrange trajectory of +3".  That usually gives me a point blank range of 300 yards, after which I use hold over based on experience, and usually limit shots to no more than 400 yards for humane, ethical reasons, due to dropping bullet energy and the limits of my own marksmanship beyond that.

But, I have found the use of milrad "come ups" and adjustable milrad turrets, as I have learned in tactical AR shooting now gives me confidence to accurately shoot to 500 yards.

A good reticle in such a scope can have an illuminated dot and thick duplex outside edge reticle stadia and work extremy well in low light and at lower power on running game.

I am now using a tactical Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9x40mm, 30mm main tube scope with Firedot TMR reticle for deer hunting on my .280 Remington bolt action.  I have developed the "come up" and windage dope for shots beyond 300 yards, and still use my regular point blank zero which is about 2.5" high at 100 yards. This works extremely well.  Old dogs can learn new tricks.  I am a milrad convert for shots beyond 300 now.  I still think 9x is plenty of magnification for deer size animals at 500.  Of course, most of my deer are still taken under 200 yards, but I can take the beenfield and power line right of way shots with confidence I did not have with hunting reticles (even with BDC marks) and closed cap turrets.





I agree with you in regards to milrads. My AR10 wears a Nikon 4-12x40 with a mil-dot reticle. With practice, and the mil-dot calculator, I am comfortable shooting at distances I would never have considered ten years ago. I am using a 300 yd zero and dialing elevation as needed at longer ranges. This gun is not used for hunting. I am a still hunter, and don't sit over feeders, so my fixed power 270's, 06, .222 Rem are more than suited for that. I am NOT bashing stand hunters, I simply prefer to hunt (when I can) rather than sit. That is why I like Bow hunting, and Muzzle loading as well. ymmv



Link Posted: 10/3/2014 10:26:31 AM EDT
[#4]
I am a big fan of the Vortex PST scopes.  

The only gripe I have is the size of the reticle on hi magnification on my 6-24 power.

Rather than a dedicated BDC type scope, what about a Mil Dot or MRAD scope with illuminated reticle?  It only takes a little retraining and you have everything you need in your reticle.  

I too have been using SMK bullets for years to hunt deer.  I started with a .30 and used both 168 and 175.  Now I mostly use 123 SMK 6.5 but have acquired a 300 Win Mag.  My last load with 168 SMK was awesome.
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