Wire Antenna ? - Page 1

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Posted: 3/18/2017 4:17:45 PM EDT

To make a wire antenna (Stealth) so maybe the HRO won't see it, would steel fishing line be ok for a HF antenna? IM thinking less than 75 feet.

What size wire or what pound should be used? Thinking of a Slope from the house to a tree about 40 feet high.

Posted: 3/18/2017 4:44:07 PM EDT

[#1]

The NEC states:

If the conductors are longer than 150 feet, use either 10 AWG hard-drawn copper or 12 AWG copper-clad steel, bronze, or other high-strength material. If the length is under 150 feet, you can use 14 AWG in any of the aforementioned materials [Table 810.52].

View Quote

With that said, If you are going to hook it up temporarily, or don't care, you can use any wire you want up to and including magnet wire... you're really only limited by power handling and physical strength. A larger diameter wire will theoretically be more broadbanded but this isn't going to make a lot of difference when it comes to wires.

So yeah, you can use your steel wire. The biggest limiting factor will be corrosion, so you will want a corrosion proof connection (such as brazing or soldering.) (While most steel fishing line should be stainless, I'm not sure of the grade and some stainless steels will rust, particularly the cheaper ones)

If you are going to buy something, copper clad steel wire is very popular as it gives you the best strength along with copper cladding for corrosion protection.

https://thewireman.com/antennap.html

Posted: 3/18/2017 5:29:47 PM EDT

[#2]

Do you already have the steel fishing line?

Some malcontent once used 40lb braided copper fishing line for an antenna. A little patina and I bet that would be dang near invisible. Assuming you don't use the same yellow Tractor Supply insulators and zipties.

Posted: 3/18/2017 6:04:06 PM EDT

[#3]

Check out wiremans stealth antenna wire. Super thin super strong, insulated.

Posted: 3/18/2017 6:28:39 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Check out wiremans stealth antenna wire. Super thin super strong, insulated.

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... and it probably doesn't fight like a rabid squirrel when you try to stretch it out without letting it kink.

Posted: 3/18/2017 7:05:54 PM EDT

[#5]

Get some insulated, 18 Gauge, stranded copper clad steel antenna wire from the Wireman. It's strong and yet barely visible. This is what I used for my new 80m "die-pole". I can barely see it, especially with trees in the background. The insulation is black, non-reflective type.
He also has some thinner wire of the same type. 26 gauge, I believe.
The beauty of copper clad steel is that it won't stretch like copper wire. This is the only wire I use for antennas.

Universal radio sells similar wire too. Here is the link.

Posted: 3/18/2017 7:15:20 PM EDT

[#6]

Galvanized electric fence wire. Cheap, strong, and all but invisible. It's difficult to solder, but crimp or split-bolt connectors will do the job.

Tractor Supply has it.

Posted: 3/18/2017 7:35:48 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
Do you already have the steel fishing line?

Some malcontent once used 40lb braided copper fishing line for an antenna. A little patina and I bet that would be dang near invisible. Assuming you don't use the same yellow Tractor Supply insulators and zipties.

http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag152/abarf/arf/8E886590-96CB-4D4A-99FB-48484A663291_zps6hrabq2s.jpg

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I heard that a bad boy did this and nobody in the HOA saw it. It's a good thing they didn't because he would have gotten into a lot of trouble for such a dastardly deed.

I am not in an HOA, but just a couple houses past the line. I have had a couple of HOA types piss and moan until I told them if they kept pestering me I'd put up a 200' tower in my front yard,half bury a bathtub in front of it and put a Virgin Mary in it facing the tower and call it a religious shrine.

THEN to show I meant business I showed them my certificate of ordination of the Universal Life Church.

The first look of outrage quickly turned into the whipped puppy look as they skulked away.

Fuck 'em. Put up your antenna but like the other guy said, use thin copper and let it turn green.

Posted: 3/18/2017 7:36:52 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Galvanized electric fence wire. Cheap, strong, and all but invisible. It's difficult to solder, but crimp or split-bolt connectors will do the job.

Tractor Supply has it.

View Quote

Galvanized wire is not a very good antenna, and it's difficult to work with.

Aluminum electric fence wire is a better option. As I mentioned in another thread, when new it's shiny silver but after time exposed to the elements it turns a flat medium grey color which is very unobtrusive against the sky.

Posted: 3/18/2017 10:19:40 PM EDT

[#9]

Ive had real good luck with 16ga black.

Posted: 3/18/2017 11:50:42 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Ive had real good luck with 16ga black.

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I have to agree... and 14 ga - 16 ga is good. You can use THHN or better, MTW. I use 14 ga for my wire antennas.

BLACK insulation! It disappears against most backgrounds, especially any type of foliage. Use black insulators, too. Tie
off the ends with black parachute cord, or "alligator line". Black tarred fishing twine is the more proper name. Comes
on a spool, smells like tar. It is very strong and will last nearly forever.

Posted: 3/19/2017 8:08:29 AM EDT

[#11]

Good information, thank you all for responding.

Posted: 3/19/2017 8:17:45 AM EDT

[#12]

I have a bunch of Davis RF polystealth I got at my local HRO's miscut/clearance table I use. It went unnoticed by my landlord who was within 5 feet of it at one point.

Totally worth the extra money over THHN or some other lower cost wire.

Posted: 3/19/2017 8:21:21 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

Galvanized wire is not a very good antenna, and it's difficult to work with...

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My experience says otherwise. Lots of DX on 20 and 15 running a Multi-Elmac AF67 (single 6146 final) at about 35 watts output. And over the years I've helped put up several rolls of it to keep the horses at home.

Posted: 3/19/2017 8:44:27 AM EDT

[#14]

THHN in blue or green disappears against sky or trees. Mine is blue, it is flat spooky how hard it is to see even when you know it's there.

Posted: 3/19/2017 8:46:01 AM EDT

[#15]

I put up wireman's #531 Toughcoat 'Silky' 13 AWG. You would think that it would stand out, but not except when it snows

Posted: 3/21/2017 2:03:28 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

I have to agree... and 14 ga - 16 ga is good. You can use THHN or better, MTW. I use 14 ga for my wire antennas.

BLACK insulation! It disappears against most backgrounds, especially any type of foliage. Use black insulators, too. Tie
off the ends with black parachute cord, or "alligator line". Black tarred fishing twine is the more proper name. Comes
on a spool, smells like tar. It is very strong and will last nearly forever.

View Quote

That's what I have up, 14 ga electric wire with black insulation and black tarred fishing line. No HOA problems but wife didn't really want an antenna in the front yard. We don't always get what we want (or in this case don't want).

This, though, is all but invisible as it's against a tree background any direction you look at it unless you're directly under it and looking up at the sky. From the road you can't see it at all and from our driveway you have to look to see it even knowing it's there, even then you can only see some of the wire..

Posted: 3/21/2017 7:55:28 AM EDT

[#17]

A bit aside the topic, but can you install a nice set of radials, perhaps 10 or more?

It turns out that 42 to around 48 feet of radiator, worked against a decent radial field, makes a fine and efficient 80 M and up antenna. If it's in inverted-L format, then it's a decent DX performer all the way through 6 M.

I use 90 footer and some 56 footers for antennas here. I'm playing around with one "backyard portable" with 4 radials. Down about 1/2 S-unit on 80 M, but otherwise indistinguishable for the fully radialed permanent units.

A 4:1 or 9:1 at the base for the upper bands, and a loading coil for the lower bands put the Z within range of any T-Tuner, and most auto-tuners...

Posted: 3/21/2017 9:01:09 AM EDT

[#18]

When I lived in MS and had a HOA, I ran multiple wire antennas. Home Depot copper wire. Inverted V. Ran the coax basically up a tree trunk and the wire down to the fence. Spray painted the wire black. 8 years and no one complained.

Posted: 3/21/2017 9:55:41 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
THHN in blue or green disappears against sky or trees. Mine is blue, it is flat spooky how hard it is to see even when you know it's there.

View Quote

3 and a half years ago I put 255' of THHN wire from Lowes in an OCFD configuration up in the pine trees. Still there & still working.
Based on the recommendations from this forum. Running in a N-S direction it's no DX champion but from the Appalachians I've QSL'd the Navajo Nation, hit Michigan regularly and generally I'm happy with the results from my 100W FT-747 & LG tuner.
Most expensive part is the legal limit capable balun from DX Engineering.
Disappears well against the trees & sky. Try to get you balun & feed line close to a tree trunk. Have LOTS of paracord available so that you can swing the cord/wires out & around branches to get the straightest line you can get.
BTW: I've switched from using 550 paracord to 750 paracord over the last couple of years. I buy it from a vendor on Amazon. Bright orange for temporary (ARES/RACES/club events) and "Forest camo" otherwise.

IMNSHO black clad wire is a bad choice if you're trying to obscure your antenna from daytime prying eyes. Look up and what do you see? If more trees (me!) then green or brown. If more sky then light blue or white.

Posted: 3/21/2017 2:31:16 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
A bit aside the topic, but can you install a nice set of radials, perhaps 10 or more?

It turns out that 42 to around 48 feet of radiator, worked against a decent radial field, makes a fine and efficient 80 M and up antenna. If it's in inverted-L format, then it's a decent DX performer all the way through 6 M.

I use 90 footer and some 56 footers for antennas here. I'm playing around with one "backyard portable" with 4 radials. Down about 1/2 S-unit on 80 M, but otherwise indistinguishable for the fully radialed permanent units.

A 4:1 or 9:1 at the base for the upper bands, and a loading coil for the lower bands put the Z within range of any T-Tuner, and most auto-tuners...

View Quote

How decent does the radial field need to be? I know more is better, but thats not real helpful.

Posted: 3/21/2017 3:16:19 PM EDT

[#21]

A very rough rule-of-thumb is around 10 or so as a mnimum of about the same length as the radiator.

More detailed info by Rudy N6LF ===> http://vtenn.com/Blog/?p=26

Posted: 3/21/2017 10:15:00 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
A very rough rule-of-thumb is around 10 or so as a mnimum of about the same length as the radiator.

More detailed info by Rudy N6LF ===> http://vtenn.com/Blog/?p=26

View Quote

LOL... well that aint happenen... (each radial the same length as radiator or 1/10th the length)

Posted: 3/22/2017 3:25:20 AM EDT

[#23]

Check this out. Good stuff and reasonably priced.

Posted: 3/29/2017 9:54:41 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

IMNSHO black clad wire is a bad choice if you're trying to obscure your antenna from daytime prying eyes. Look up and what do you see? If more trees (me!) then green or brown. If more sky then light blue or white.

View Quote

But people don't look at your wire antenna from directly under, they look from the side and if there are trees behind it, the black blends with the trees. Think black pajamas. Light blue or white against foliage stands out. Black is gone.

If it is going to be against sky for the background, light gray is as good as light blue.

Posted: 3/30/2017 12:09:53 AM EDT

[#25]

That? Oh that just keeps the seagulls out of the yard. They can sense it.

Posted: 3/30/2017 8:40:30 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted: If it is going to be against sky for the background, light gray is as good as light blue.

View Quote

20+ years ago, I put up a 1/4 wave 11M whip on my house. No one ever noticed. Since it was silver colored, you couldn't see it unless you were looking for it.

Posted: 3/30/2017 5:18:34 PM EDT

[#27]

You'd be surprised how much a wire antenna disappears. Search around on DXEngineering for their stealth stuff, or figure out if you can make a loop. An SGC autocoupler (I have an SGC-239) works even with CAT-3 cable laid along a wooden fence.

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