Was looking around the forums and this was the only radio forum on arfcom. I dunno, maybe its a laughable subject for you ham guys, but I'm looking for info/resource to install a well tuned CB setup with large wip antenna for my off road rig.

Welcome in.  We have some Hams that also run CB's in the rigs like you mention.  
I've had CB's for years (just finally packed mine up in the box this week and placed on a shelf for safe keeping).  
What type of rig are you looking to install in?  Do you have any gear-or are you looking for a shopping list?

Thanks for answering, thought I may have gotten laughed outta here, lulz....

I'm starting from scratch and want to do it right, so yeah I'm looking for a shopping list. I haven't played with CBs since the mid 90s. Use to have a handheld setup with a large wip perm mounted in my Bronco for playing rabbit. This time I'd like to set up with a quality perm installed radio. Also what's with the single side band thing? It can tx on 12w as opposed to 4w for regular CB band?

ETA: I'm imagining a large mil style fiberglass mounted somewhere on the rear that I can fold over/stow away when in the garage.

Rig is a 91 k1500. And yes it does go off road, I just like to keep my equipment clean.

I currently run a Cobra 29-LX with a 102" whip from the rapidly sinking Radio Shack.  Even with the heavy duty spring installed, it still tunes no more than 1.4 on my SWR meter.  Perfectly acceptable.  Good SOLID grounding is critical to getting good performance.  Also, I've had "Antenna Warning" issues when using less than about 8' of coax.  This may be a problem with just this model, but I've heard urban legends about not using short coax.

P.S.  Don't tell anyone else here that I run CB.  They'll laugh me out of the forum.

The Single Side Band thing is just a different modulation, or mode.

Your typical CB transmits at 4W peak in AM Mode, but it will transmit 12W peak in SSB. The downside to using an SSB CB is that the person you're talking to has to be using one as well.

I think the typical numbers that fly around for max-range are:
AM: 7 miles
SSB: 30 miles

But don't expect to get that much, those calculations probably include more than your standard 1/4wave whip.


In short: SSB is a more efficient mode, but both ends have to use it.


ETA: Some reading for you. http://www.hamuniverse.com/ssbinformation.html

Get it with ssb , you can have a lot of fun on chan. 38 when the band is open. or in CB lingo when the skip is running.

No. Stuff like this is what we are here for.

You don't fall into this category so we're glad to be of service to you.

I'm not  CB guy but some of us are and you'll likely get what you need here.

Welcome!

Get into ham radio, and then convert all your off-road buddies I had a CB in my truck from 2008-2009 and in my locale it was useless. It either didn't have enough range to be practical, or the people that were within range I didn't want to talk to. I understand that off-road groups use CB a lot, and I understand that it's a hassle to do the whole ham licensing thing, but the difference between the two is night and day. The audio quality and range of ham radio is nothing short of excellent. Some of the off road groups out here in the Rocky Mountains use ham radio for these reasons. Now, if CB gets the job done for you, more power to you, but for me it didn't. FWIW

former owner Black 1990 Scottsdale 4x4!

My Shopping List:

1.  Antenna
102" Steel Whip with Free Shipping
Non Aff Amazon Link

2.  Mount
Beehive Mount
Non Aff Amazon Link

3.  Spring
Non Aff Amazon Link

4.  Coax
18'
Non Aff Amazon Link

Radio-in the order I would consider:

A.  Galaxy 959 SSB *I have this one*
Non Aff Amazon Link

B.  Galaxy 939
Non Aff Amazon Link

C.  Uniden 980SSB
Non Aff Amazon Link

an alternate antenna mounting system that may offer easier routing of the antenna cable and offer a different look on your bumper would be as follow:

replace number 2 from above with this
Ball Mount- Non Aff Link

and number 4 from above with this
Non Aff Link

that's what I had on my '90 and how I currently run a 10m Ham whip on my '99 Burb!



for nothings sake-a comparable Ham Radio (50w VHF radio, antenna, etc...) setup would cost nearly the same if you've ever considered that.  YMMV-FWIW

I got started as a kid playing radio in the mid-1970's during the CB boom.  My local community channel was 7.  Eventually I saved up my money and bought a Midland 13-893 which was SSB capable and gave a bit more punch.  I didn't get my ham license until 1989 as college came along and I just lost interest in trying to learn Morse Code back then.  I did eventually learn it and passed the 13WPM test.



The only thing I do not like talking about with regards to CB is illegal activity.  If you are running 4W (or 12W SSB) and operate legally that is fine.  If you want to talk about 11m operation using modified rigs in conjunction with a linear to pump out several thousand watts then I have no interest in joining the discussion.  It is relatively easy now to get your ham license and legally put out 1500W on 10m.



For me, operating illegally would not only put my ham license in jeopardy but most likely my commercial General Radiotelephone Operators License too.

Skip the giant 102" whip and put a DC grounded Maxrad antenna right in the center of your roof.  Electrically bond the cab to the bed on each side, and bond the fenders to the hood.

As previously mentioned, SSB is not "extra channels" as is usually marketed, but rather a different mode of transmission on the same channels.  An AM signal is both sidebands (USB and LSB) as well as a carrier.  By disassembling the AM signal into the minimum necessary to convey the information, single sideband is a more efficient use of transmitter power as well as using the minimum amount of radio spectrum; spectrum bandwidth doesn't matter on CB though since it's all defined channels shared with AM.  The downsides are more complex and expensive transceivers, need for exact tuning of the received signals (ie the "clarifier" in CB lingo) and sometimes slightly off audio quality.  Since there is no carrier, there is no quieting of noise, so whatever noise exists on that frequency will be received along with the signal and that makes a big difference.  Multiple signals on the same frequency just combine together, one doesn't override the rest.

The allowable power on SSB is as much a function of practical transmitter design as anything.  If you look at the specs of virtually any all mode radio, you'll find a similar near 4:1 ratio of SSB to AM transmitter output power.  The FCC limits just makes it easier and less expensive for the radio manufacturers.

Where CB discussions usually go wrong around here is when they almost inevitably take a turn into discussion of illegal operation - amplifiers, "peek[sic] and tune", "freeband" or the misnomer "upper and lower" channels, "export" radios, etc.

Yea, I still have CB gear, quite a bit of it, actually.  Though the lack of stability on every CB radio out there kept me from really using SSB seriously, it's WAY better on a Ham rig.  On my bronco, I have a roof mount wilson 1000, which as stood up to a TON of abuse, and the performance is good.  The coil does introduce loss, but it's up high on the truck, which is better than having your antenna on the side, mounted lower, if you're going for a 102" whip.  I have a Wilson 5000 (only because the place didn't have any 1000's in stock) on my WJ's roof, it's hooked up thru an LDG tuner to my Kenwood TS-480SAT.  I've made a couple contacts with it on 10m.



But as far a CB radios... They're all going to perform about the same, due to the FCC limitations, your antenna, as always, is the biggest factor in performance.  I have leaned towards Uniden radios over cobra in the past.  The quality seemed to be better.  The knobs felt more solid for the most part.  For a small radio, the Pro 510 or 520 radios are still good choices, and can be found pretty cheap.  I've also liked the Astatic D104M6 mics, just keep the volume turned down most of the way, don't need much amplification with those.  



SSB is generally only used on a few of the upper channels (like someone else posted, 38 LSB) between DX'ers.  

I think most of the confusion about AM and SSB is due to marketing, and that broadcast AM and FM are on totally separate bands... People think of AM and FM as being something way different, and have no clue that different modulation schemes can be used on the same frequency.



 

SSB is great, use it

pretty much all we do on amateur HF is SSB, 11 meters should be no different

If you want SSB, then look for an older Cobra 148GTL or Uniden Grant. The older ones made in Taiwan or the Phillipines are the best. Older Uniden and Cobra units are pretty much the same just different faceplates and minor circuit differences.
"Peaking and tuning" isn't always a bad thing especially when it comes to the receiver. Way back when I was working on CB's, we aligned both the transmitter and the receiver on new radios we sold. The transmitters were limited on what we could do to them (), but some of the recievers were mistuned from the factory and we were able to get another S-unit or more from some of them.

I recently bought an almost new Galaxy DX959 for $20. Last weekend I hooked it up to the cigarette lighter plug in my Jeep and gave it a try. Someone also gave me an old, base loaded, mag mount CB antenna. I managed to talk to a guy a whooping 3 miles away. He was running a mobile CB with some kind of "miracle" super antenna. I lost him in the noise when I was roughly 3.5 miles away. The terrain is basically flat. I can do this with my 2m HTs. This was my first and probably last CB experience.

If you want to use a radio with kids in the car forget CB and go with ham.

Cb is what got me motivated into ham.  I ran them a lot in the 90s.  And later.  A Wilson antenna will work great and be shorter than a full length whip.  I know nothing about off-road clubs but assume you will use the regular 40 Chanel's.  Ssb is more for boutique cb...if you will....but I enjoyed it.  You could probably make due with any radio out there.  I prefer Galaxy just because that's what I used to have.  Uniden and cobra are known brands.  In off-road stuff how far do you want to talk?

This does bring back some fond memories, Yes this was how I got into ham radio as well.  I hope you have fun with it, I used to use it all the time.  Have you ever looked at ham radio, you might also like what it offers ?

I picked up a small midland CB which rides in the truck but I rarely use it.  CB The antenna is a small center-loaded deal which seems to be a pretty good dummy load.


It receives NOAA weather radio which is a useful feature.

grounding all those panels will be critical to get low SWRs for chevys.  rubber mounted cabs and poor metal contacts for body panels will hurt and you will never get your swr's good enough without adequate grounding from battery ground (-) to chassis, cab, quarter panels and frame.  You will need to break through the paint / undercoating to get a good contact to get the swr's down.

antennas.  is the major part of the radio if not the radio itself.  you can have a $5 antenna, center loaded antenna with $300 radio and only have a $5 setup.  antenna, antenna, antenna.  

->whips.  some people will tell you if your off-roading, not to use a 1/4 wave (9') whip antenna for fear of someone getting hurt with it hitting everything.  some orv parks / trails specially have people remove them.  I ran a cj7 with the 9' whip off driver's rear quarter while off-roading.  i could talk with operators across country (10m).  a piece of waxed cotton string, tied the tip off on the hood latch with tennis ball near the spring did the trick to keep it from whacking the top / roll bar.

->magnetic. some are better than others and all relates to the pocket book.  I used to have a center loaded only 2' tall magnetic.  the bandwith was vert narrow and swr's would get crazy working with at the radio's frequency range.  a 30" Wilson was better but not much and with a galaxy 979 (12 watts limit with the right conditions) I would get out to new york city from washington state easy.  I went with a different radio (see below), a rci 2950dx which also is ssb capable and with a wilson 1000 magnetic, would get me into sydney (yes australia from yakima) when the conditions were right.  i run a Wilson 5000 now.  currently, the sirio performer 5000 is the best antenna out there for what your looking to do (around $100)  

->hard mounting will always be your best bet which utilizes the whole vehicle as part of the antenna system but is hard mounted.  .      

what type of radio you running?  some suggested the galaxy with ssb capability, but they can get off frequency if you talk too long (heat).  if the clarifier isn't unlocked, allowing you to to adjust the clarifier, people will complain of you being off frequency.  some other people mention the older unidens (grants and presidents) which are spot on and can be had for about $100, but are large in size.  for years I ran a cheap magnum 257hp as their compactness was ideal but it was also in the return and repair shop more times than not.  uniden has started ti make the bearcat ssb and can be had for $130 new, but are soft in transmit.  a power mic can bump you up a bit but you are limited to 12 watts. check newspapers and CL as sometimes a uniden 122xl pops up and are great work horses with a compact size.  a little crackly as the speaker is quite small but if your not hard of hearing.  

**if you plan to get out in the back woods a lot, i recommend a ssb capable radio, just so you have the "power to get out" and bounce the signal quite far if you run into a jam as cb frequencies (AM) are pretty much line of sight**  

hope this and what the others post out!  like some other folks have mentioned, we all started as zit-faced kids with cb's (some well into the previous century).  we're "hear" to help and welcome aboard to stactic!            

Thanks for all the info and shopping lists!




I entertained the idea of jumping to ham instead, but set that aside, maybe I'll reconsider......

That's a 1/4 wave antenna for CB.

Most CB antennas use some kind of loading to reduce the size, either base loading or center loading, or a combination.

thanks Gamma762 for clarifying.
edited
73s

The 2 meter gods were kind today and opened up some DX. Talked to a guy in Coffeeville, KS (291 miles) on just my 50 watt Yaesu. Normally I get about 25-50 miles out.
Re-think your idea of ham radio . You will be much happier. If you must keep a CB in addition in the off road for real local comms.

102" whips are 1/4 waves. (CB is the former 11m band, 11m~34 ft, 1/4 of that is between 8 and 9 feet).

In all honesty OP, my favorite antenna is a 10/11m whip made by Tram. Power isn't everything, antenna and receiver make one of the biggest differences I've seen. With my Cobra 25 I used to talk all over the place in my old pickup. One time I started talking to everyone's favorite racist out of Slaton, TX (I live 12 miles away in Lubbock) during a band opening…from Ludlow, CO on 4W of power. He said I was about an S4 but he was crystal clear (he was also running a 500W amp). I pulled both that antenna and 25 from my pickup. A friend borrowed it once for a Canadian river trip, he was leading a pack of off roaders on 87 15 or 16 miles north of Amarillo when a straggler comes in from Amarillo asking where they were at. No one else heard him…except for the guy in the front.

I keep that 25 in my Jeep now…has a Larsen NMO 27 that works better than any fiberglass job I've ever had. Most of the guys I wheel with have either gone to amateur or GMRS (because I tend to always bring a portable GMRS repeater on overnight trips) but I keep the CB in there for those select few and they are actually the ones who don't know how to use a radio to begin with and believe power=range. Won't be putting one in my next truck (I've already got to figure out where to put a 10m-6m Motorola Syntor, VHF Motorola Astro radio, UHF Motorola TRBO radio and a 900 MHz radio) due to practicality reasons. The one in my Jeep is there to stay though.

Uniden has a new SSB radio out that's somewhat modern and small…don't know about how the receiver is but I haven't heard negative things yet…radio is really up to the OP though. As far as antennas go, it's hard to beat a roof mounted NMO 27 or PCTEL low band antenna for durability…