Well...

I am LITERALLY STUNNED!!!!

Hooked up the aforementioned $12 counter last night to an Agilent E4422B  sig gen... Similar to this one...





The frequency counter read to +/- 1/10 of a cycle [at room temp] at 2000.0000 Mhz with -7dBm in... My sig gen has an oven osc
and I cal'ed it to a Rubidium osc a year or so ago.

Absolutely unbelievable and I had to rub my eyes and double check that there wasn't some sort of display interface that got
connected to fool me...  

The frequency reference on the back of the board is a compensated SMD unit oscillator device the size of a rectangular baby aspirin.

I don't know what else to say.




Oh -yes I do...

The counter can be 'offset' by the IF frequency to display a receiver's input frequency, while measuring the receivers LO frequency.

The manual linked in the preceding post shows other features.

This counter was advertised on eBay as counting to 1000 mc. [There were others advertised to 2 ghz, I think they're all the same]

This one  works to 2+ ghz.

OK, I've just splurged and ordered one with blue LEDs.

Can't wait to get my hands on it (in a month)...



While I was at it, I also ordered a couple of blue voltage displays that eBay 'suggested' for me (2pcs Mini DC 0-100V Blue LED 3-Digital Display Voltage Voltmeter Panel Motor):



I'm a sucker for blue LEDs.

I'd better close my browser before I go on an (another) eBay-fueled electronics buying binge...

The nice thing about going on a China electronics buying splurge is stuff is so inexpensive and good.

Have you tried your counter?

I like those small digital meters.

They make a great addition to old but excellent HP power supplies.

Add them to the front panel, sometimes I attach them with adhesive and connect to the output terminals.

There has been discussion here about the closing of International Crystal, a reliable and quality supplier of crystals for most any radio or electronic device.


I mentioned the availability of fantastic stability, programmable oscillators in tiny packages, low power, and easily interfaced to most any application where crystals from International, etc., might be used.

Here's the link to one of the suppliers that I have used and particularly like, vs. some other mfgr's products I have tested.

https://www.sitime.com/products/products-overview-mems-oscillators

If anyone has questions about my experiences applying these, please don't hesitate to ask.

I think I'll get out the programmer and take some pics programming a device...

Anyone want a certain frequency programmed, and the output looked at on an analyzer?

I think I have chips to abt 200 mhz.

Here's the Sitime MMS Oscillator Programmer  -the little with circle in the upper left...

It comes with a small kit of various oscillators for a range of frequencies, USB cable, and 3 SMD adapters with 2 sockets each, that plug into the top of the programmer.

See Sitime's data sheets on Digikey

BTW, I think you can specify a device and a frequency and Digikey -at least among the resellers- will pgm a device a ship it to out in a day.

There are two devices on the proto bd, the larger black one under the iron, that we'll see some measurements of...

And a much tinier one under the 22k resistor...





Next picture is after touching firmly, the iron, set to 750F, to the chip for 4 seconds and observing the spectrum analyzer.  Frequency shifted from about 88mhz up about 1200 cycles.

This is an EXTREME INCREASE in temp and way out of specs, chip may be at 300+F...

The 88.xxx frequency is chosen for a triple frequency converter for a special application.




Note the low noise of the device in a 50 hz analyzer BW.  Amazing!  [to me]

Continuing...

Looks like the osc was within 88 cycles after being pgm'd 76.113 mhz. Current draw for this device is about 25 ma at about 3 volts. You can see the output is greater than 10dBm.

This picture is cooling the device way below freezing.

I don't have an analyzer picture, because the delta in f is only a couple 100 cycles.

Please let me know if you're interested in using one of various mfgr's terrific crystal oscillator devices in a project, or replacing complex crystal multiplier circuits with one simple device ----for a few $$$  I'd like to help!

Very interesting thread. How did I miss it????? Honestly, this is the first time I noticed this thread, unless I forgot it.

I have learned a lot by reading all this. None of my homebrew experiments ventured above 30 Mhz. I did not even know that noises source devices existed.. Your lab is fanastic. Is this at your house or do you work at that place? Maybe it's your business? Very fascinating!

OP, what do you use to design and to print the pattern on a circuit board?   Back in the days I drew everything by hand with any paint I could find and then used a solution of salt, hydrogen peroxide and lemon acid. No heater was needed and it worked great overnight. This is all an average schmoe like me could afford in a country where even soap was hard to find in a store. LOL.

Thank you G-R! I read all your anecdotal info on your experiences when you were in Russia.


Actually, the one ['lab' as I call it]  just above is in a commercial bldg I own.  Sold my biz years ago and had similar labs, with more duplication of equip for various engineering and test folks.

This one has a machine area w/ CNC lathe I don't know how to pgm -yet,  and recently got a new CNC mill with turret tool changer, studying how to run it, but have no application for it -yet.




Then there is a similar lab -but not nearly as extensive, in the 'highly insulated' room in the barn in the mountains, also with manual shop equipment and runs with solar or 3 phase genny.

I've had labs all over the country at various places I've owned -for fun --and previously for profit.


Everything is strictly personal. Happy to provide more info if you're interested.


I understand about making PCB artwork by hand when I was first starting out. It was a big day when I got an old Graflex 4x5 cut film camera to make the early artwork and advertising paste-up negatives many decades ago.



If you or anyone would like more info on setting up an affordable higher freq lab w/ some nice HP/Agilent test and measurement stuff, pls ask.

Prices have collapsed on ebay because it seems most folks have no idea how to use it.

Thanks for your reply, Expy. I did not realize the "Surviving Collapse" thread was anecdotal. I tried to be objective but I do like to joke around but sometimes tend to go too far.
I'm very impressed by your lab. I used to have a nicely setup home-brew "lab" but it was not even remotely similar to yours. My dad and I did have a nice manual lathe and several small drill presses for delicate work. Actually, I've been thinking about setting up a small lab here at my workshop but money has been tight lately due to my health problems. A moderate Rigol "scope" is on my list, as well as a signal generator and possibly a spectrum analyzer.

Which measuring or testing tools do you consider as most useful in your lab?

I'm thinking about this and will advise...

Can you give me an idea of your general interest/application and I'll try to focus on that?

I'll try to chose T&M equip that is economical and effective, and you may be surprised at my answers.

G-R, have been thinking about the best way to answer this for abt a week...


I still don't know your objective for test equipment, ---you did mention a Rigol scope, a sig generator and a spectrum analyzer.


For some years there have been great highly accurate HP/Agilent instruments of all kinds available on eBay, auctions, and Hamfests at prices most anyone can afford.

Most of my company stuff came from there, and prior to ebay, at T&M auctions like the big ones RossDove had in silicone valley and other ones, and hamfests.

Occasionally I bought new -but only when there was no other option, and that was not often. The $$$ I saved by doing this could literally choke a horse ---


For ADVANCED Ham work -repair and experimentation, and possibly new product design, in the RF arena-- and not choosing the least expensive 'no-name' equipment, I would almost always look for the HP/Agilent name if they offered a solution.

Their documentation is fabulous, especially for equipment that isn't too recent ---and by the same token, not expensive. Parts and donor equipment is plentiful. Service is straightforward.


However, scopes are another matter. The Rigol scope is a fine choice, altho, I would shop eBay for a used HP/Agilent BIG SCREEN LCD scope, as an alternative, if possible.

I purchased a ~$400 Owon digital scope a few years ago and it sits on a shelf. I then purchased a ~$1500 Agilent 7" LCD  IIRC fancy scope with a 100 MHz BW and 2 channels and it does everything I need a scope for... Love it   --NO BUGS in the operating system.

Also I was using some of the HP digital CRT based scopes [put the Tek 485 scope to rest about 2010 -fine scope for many years] in my old company starting about 1994 and they were very expensive then  [and easy replaced by some of the higher end 'generic' LCD scopes now]

And also, had purchased some of the HP 54600B [or similar in the series] scopes in the later 1990's and some very inexpensively in the mid-2000's.

Those HP 54600B's were a few hundred $ and they couldn't resolve shorter millisecond microcontroller and sensor waveforms to see what was going on. Yet they are fine scopes and very inexpensive today on eBay.

So then a couple years ago I purchased some of the next generation HP 5462xx series for ~$300 and they are quite powerful for the money. See brochure...

http://www.testequipmenthq.com/datasheets/Agilent-54624A-Datasheet.pdf

I gave the earlier digital crt scopes to friends. [Who have rarely used them]


So, right now, if you shop carefully there's plenty of deals on both these oscilloscope generations and they aren't tacticool like the new color LCD generic scopes but for the $$$ are quite capable and may be a better bargain.


The BIG THING -to me- is the HP Agilent Keysight equipment has the BUGS WORKED OUT.  You can read the EE forums and see all the buggy 'no name stuff' folks get frustrated over.

Signal generators and counters

I've been making receiver sensitivity measurements for hobby purposes, from the time I was ~24 years old and to me, signal output accuracy [at least a good close approximation] was very important.

My first generators were old WW2 mil units with the piston attenuator.


After 1970,  I used a frequency counter with my sig gens, [built the counter using the new prescaler chip that went to abt 160 MHz and used Numitron displays per a 1970 Pop Electronics article.] Used a 1 mc xtal that was fairly accurate for my purposes. That homemade freq counter immensely increased the capability of my little test equip setup.

Still have the counter, having it available to measure transmitters [incl VHF mobiles] was WONDERFUL! Vs. the old Lampkin stuff...




Now, see top of page, counters with fine accuracy and resolution are ~$10, free shipping from China.

Dress one up in a case and bingo, that requirement is taken care of.


Or buy one of the older HP counters that may even have an ovenized osc inside for $100+.  Absolutely great units with different model series over the years and varyious increasing frequency ranges.


Old great performance sig gens are plentiful on eBay.

Let me know what you are looking for and I'll suggest an instrument ---probably at a great price.


Most folks don't know how to use these instruments or are lacking in motivation to learn, so there is a glut in the market.

Spectrum Analyzers are my favorite and most used T&E instruments and I could write a book abt various ways of approaching an acquisition.

Choice and price range is dependent on application and there are FANTASTIC buys of incredibly capable equipment [with the HP/Agilent brand on them] out there.

The HP 8566, 66 and 67 series have been around since the early 1980's and still have some of the best performance available. Give away prices on eBay and hamfests and auctions nowadays.

Also the later HP/Agilent 70000 MMS modular series. [What I use at various places now]

There are many other 'digital' based choices made by the innovative 'lesser name' brands.

I wouldn't want one of those ---incl some of the newer zillion ~$80,000+  Agilent/Keysight ones.

They don't have the 'fit and feel' of the old HP ones ---Read the history of the HP8566A and B's.


A sillycone valley company is selling innovative COLOR LCD display upgrades for many of the older HP/Agilent analyzers of all kinds,  and making them look almost like new... The dimming CRT's have been the usual aging failure point   ---I wish I hadn't stockpiled so many of the older displays...

The new LCD display replacements cost abt $400! Vs. a CRT tube  that cost up to $3000 and are rarely available, new.

If you want to know more abt the equipment I've referenced, eBay is a HUGE, fast,  technical reference [with SOLD pricing info] just enter the model or type of equip in the search box.

Keysight has most of the manuals for their older [HP] equip as PDF's on the net.

Oh, talk abt reliability of HP equipment. The most expensive T&M instrument I ever bought [my company] were the HP 8566A's in the early 1980's. Cost was in the $70,000 range each.

Last I heard, they are still running [w/ minor repairs like a cooling fan or something] almost 4 decades later!

Test pictures...



http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af66/expy37/IMG_3269_zpsonbiumgl.jpg


Well it looks like all the pictures in this thread are gone thanks to the Fine Minds at PhotoBucket.

They want about $50 per month it seems to host them for non-commercial use.

Now, I have to determine if I can recover them from the P-B site and how much effort it will take to redo all of them...

As well as if it will be worth doing. I've posted 100's -many/most technical here...

Expy, this is good info.

Around here, a lot of the older HP equipment has been surplussed out and there are some great bargains out there.

I never would have thought I would have an 8558 and 8559 spec ann of my own.
Someone even gave me a digital display for the 8558.

Thanks for posting about the programmable crystals.
It sure beats buying multiple a-32 boards from Down East.
I need to get a few for some of my projects.

Yep, there are fabulous deals for Motivated folks...

Any updates Radia?