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Posted: 1/22/2017 8:23:05 AM EDT
[#1]
I've been reading this story on another forum...glad to see it here as well.
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Posted: 1/22/2017 7:47:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: stimpsonjcat]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCBourone:
StimpsonJ THAT IS FREAKING AWESOME--rasp knife!!!! Forged and how tempered etc. can you show some steps in process? Rough forging? Then tip/edge? Any way to put a Musso tip to spine 'arc'? Perhaps you can see the arc coming into being now. 
Days like today make me wish I had a power-hammer. |
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Posted: 1/22/2017 7:53:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DFARM:
Sweet project! Are you planning on forging the bevels completely, or just to get the tip shaped the way you want and then finishing them up on the grinder? I've never forged a blade, I've only done a couple by stock removal. It interests me greatly, but I have too many other hobbies to be able to set up a forge. "Someday" is what I always tell myself. Forged as close as I dare. The rasps are not tool steel, they harden very well, but even soft are quite brittle, so I am worried about stress fractures and such. There is no 'someday'. Find a local smith and engage. It's hard to beat watching the ripples of cooling air pass over a blade normalizing in a forge radiant with its own heat. 
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Posted: 1/22/2017 8:40:23 PM EDT
[#4]
--bigpapi good to see you, yes on two places for story, should be a dozen I suppose,
but these two were favorites from long ago. Two sets of footnotes, then. --StimpsonJ That. Is. So. Cool. Proportions much easier to see in your hand. Understood on rasps--high carbon I believe? On arc--I don't know term/phrasing. But--if you took a longbow, strung, and laid it tip to tip with the Musso bowie, as they flat on a table, from tip to handle the Musso would follow the 'curve' of the bow--as if the Musso were 'bent', let's say, over a 'very large' barrel--something seen in very few archaic bowies-- --powerhammer--another old school tech I price late at night, and wonder where/when I would place it--making a big useful archaic pattern knife a dream for many, I think. Just so cool. --Please more pics/progress as convenient. |
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Posted: 1/22/2017 8:58:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: stimpsonjcat]
[#5]
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Posted: 1/22/2017 9:27:32 PM EDT
[#6]
That. Is. So. Freaking. Cool.
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Posted: 1/22/2017 10:01:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCBourone:high carbon I believe? I am not sure why the rasps are problematic. They DO normalize and quench as if they are regular carbon steel...but the structure seems very brittle. Even soft they sheer. Now it's not like a piece of glass, I had to turn them a good 10 degrees to get them to break, but these aren't passing any ABS tests. I will run at least one more test piece before I attempt to quench/temper your blade. Unless you do not like the file project and would prefer a straightforward tool steel blade? I have tool steel to make the same blade. |
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Posted: 1/22/2017 10:30:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DCBourone]
[#8]
--StimpsonJ your comment brittle 'fits' something I feel like I have seen/read
somewhere--extreme carbon content, not 'bound' somehow--only apocrypha, I am not an authority. --please make EXACTLY the knife you want to make--STj let's imagine knife/first book/books in same domain--everything is practice until we die--I am hoping there will be many more knives, many materials. Soldier's is my first 'book.'--the artifact books will have to start somewhere, and that will be here, I hope someday there are many. Same with Gehr coins--long ago I scratched and hammered some silver dollar 'culls' that had no residual coin value--lesson--coin silver is much much harder than I had expected. I have watched a number of engraving videos, and have seen some fine engraving done in Italy. Very very tricky: materials, engravers 'vice'--chisels, position of light(s)--another long learning curve. Gehr coins will be made first on 'una onza' Mexican bullion coins--but they are also very hard. I bought a number a few years ago in anticipation, then realized how hard they are. No solution yet. --the knife steel that routinely seems to show as "extremely good" in terms of plasticity/durability/ resistance to error/low cost is 0-1, the only disadvantage to 01 apparently oxidation, not a problem unless working in/on seaside or tropical. I have fantasized about error prone forging a Musso pattern bowie out of 01 or one of the durable spring/tool steels for a very long time. It also seems like many exceptional blades are still forged from files/rasps--there might be a solution somewhere. And a 10 degree flex on a stout knife is plenty, don't you think? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2017 12:07:25 AM EDT
[#9]
I have been told that many rasps are case hardened.
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Posted: 1/23/2017 12:17:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: stimpsonjcat]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCBourone:
--please make EXACTLY the knife you want to make Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCBourone:
--please make EXACTLY the knife you want to make You know this is not possible, yes? I would as soon say "write EXACTLY the story you want to write." But I understand your intent. Originally Posted By DCBourone:--the knife steel that routinely seems to show as "extremely good" in terms of plasticity/durability/
resistance to error/low cost is 0-1, the only disadvantage to 01 apparently oxidation, not a problem unless working in/on seaside or tropical. I have fantasized about error prone forging a Musso pattern bowie out of 01 or one of the durable spring/tool steels for a very long time. 
Note the time. The decision had already been made. Originally Posted By DCBourone:It also seems like many exceptional blades are still forged from files/rasps--there might be a solution somewhere.
And a 10 degree flex on a stout knife is plenty, don't you think? No. 90 degrees is the ABS standard. I suppose art has its 'acceptable limits' in many ways. One can paint an image of unfathomable beauty on canvass...or toilet paper. We are not painting...the things we are making are art because they are functional. A story will not survive the use of inferior language. A knife will not survive the use of inferior materials. You asked for a blade made from a file. The request has resulted in the required practice. You will have to wait...a bit more. It's OK, it gives me an excuse to try the thing I could not puzzle out how to do on the scales of the file-knife. Though the scales made the idea carry more weight. Originally Posted By DCBourone:... silver is much much harder than I had expected. I have watched
a number of engraving videos, and have seen some fine engraving done in Italy. Very very tricky: materials, engravers 'vice'--chisels, position of light(s)--another long learning curve. Gehr coins will be made first on 'una onza' Mexican bullion coins--but they are also very hard. I bought a number a few years ago in anticipation, then realized how hard they are. No solution yet. Engraving...yes. Difficult, and a puzzle I mentioned above. Everything impressive is hard until we...hmmm...practice? |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 4:18:17 AM EDT
[#11]
--oldcrank that makes perfect sense.
--StimpsonJ--exactly the story I want to write--only once: Injured. Very very difficult. No 'space' in novella/sonnet to roam, some, not much, in 600 pages. O1 order, that is awesome!!! 90 degrees did not know. 90 degrees and return to true or just 'not break' either way that is amazing. Have seen several 'bowie' style knives made from rasps/files, but never seen one used, only art art knives. Engraving--talked to a tool/die maker a year or so ago-- --possibility 'impressing/pressing' coins/medallions-- Ok, gear fantasy:ancient screw type coin presses. Want. Badly. |
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Posted: 1/23/2017 10:49:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: stimpsonjcat]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By oldcrank:
I have been told that many rasps are case hardened. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By oldcrank:
I have been told that many rasps are case hardened. I have no doubt, as that would be the cheapest option. In the case of the rasps I am working with a normalized rasp breaks the same as a hardened one. If they were case hardened they would bend and the surface would break. This material has two states...soft and brittle, and hard and brittle. Still, you would have to pry with the thing pretty severely to get it to break, I clamped it in the pole-vise and pulled on it with a long set of tongs and it did not break easily. As mentioned I think the point of the rasp knife is to see how minimally the material can be worked into a proper blade form. I think I will try to finish both the rasp knife and a properly made O-1 blade. This is ARFCOM... Originally Posted By DCBourone:
90 degrees did not know. 90 degrees and return to true or just 'not break' either way that is amazing. Bend only...Here is the whole test, left cold to not annoy the uninterested... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28BzKl3SM4k Originally Posted By DCBourone:
Ok, gear fantasy:ancient screw type coin presses. Want. Badly. I have the same thought every year when Jess and I get medallions stamped at the ren-fest. Tooling costs are ALWAYS the problem. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2017 8:31:11 PM EDT
[#13]
DC Bourone I just wanted to say thank you for what you're doing. I've been reading this since the beginning, I'll read a bit, take a break then binge to catch up. Probably not the best way to enjoy a story but it's what I do. Although I normally am content with lurking I thought I owed it to you and this thread to sign in, make an appearance, and thank you. I'm pretty sure I'm not your ideal target market, but I do appreciate what you're doing.
Oh and while I haven't gotten Injured Reserves yet, I do intend to. |
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Posted: 1/26/2017 10:07:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Stimpy, Any updates on the knife(knives?)? What are you thinking for the style of the tang, handle materials, sheath? I love watching projects like this, even when it's not me working on it. There's just something about watching a useful tool come to life out of a raw or re-purposed material.
DCB, How are things looking with publishing? Any changes or updates? I'm going to have more time to read soon, and would love to start with this story. |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 12:47:32 AM EDT
[#15]
So I wasn't sure if I wanted to read the update at first but I caved tonight and read it. The reveal is great and something that I suspected from very early on. I can put more in a spoiler box if that's okay but I'm asking first since I've already stepped out of my lane here once...
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Posted: 1/30/2017 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DCBourone]
[#16]
-----------TEXT REMOVED 01082019 .RE EPUB TOS----------
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Posted: 1/30/2017 11:13:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for the update.
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Posted: 1/30/2017 11:18:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Been so long, I forgot where I left off.
Gonna just sit back and wait for the book to be released and then go forth. Keep up the good work and git'er done. 
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Posted: 1/30/2017 11:45:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DesignatedMarksman]
[#19]
It wiggled uselessy, somehow more than anything the useless door handle Face and figure in covered in spackled camouflage. Either way, great update. Beware the fury of a patient man. |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 11:56:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Thanks for the update DC.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/30/2017 12:50:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Nicely done, DCB.
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Posted: 1/30/2017 5:21:33 PM EDT
[#22]
“It was you. On the boat,” Tony said.
“What boat? Thanks for the book. Tony." I love it! Thanks for the update. |
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Posted: 1/30/2017 6:40:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: greyguy]
[#23]
Putting the makeup back on Sylvia's face and drying her hair was awesome. What a mindf--k...
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Posted: 1/30/2017 10:57:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Very nice, DCB, VERY NICE!
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Posted: 1/31/2017 12:08:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Great stuff!!!
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Posted: 1/31/2017 2:43:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DCBourone]
[#26]
----TEXT REMOVED .RE EPUB TOS ETC.-----------
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Posted: 1/31/2017 12:46:36 PM EDT
[#27]
You have one 'imagine' spelled 'Imgaine'
Is it really a tazer or a hand-held shocking device? Great update. No knife updates as I spent the weekend running a 20k Run and gun out in Oklahoma and driving back home. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2017 5:08:23 PM EDT
[#28]
When I finally get off my butt & buy Injured Reserves I'll try to let you know DC B. As for my not being the ideal target audience don't get me wrong I love to read and tend to follow authors that I enjoy. Sorry, I keep getting trying to expand on my thoughts here without openly speculating on where this is going but after several attempts it appears to be beyond my capabilities.lol
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Posted: 1/31/2017 6:09:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DFARM:
Stimpy, Any updates on the knife(knives?)? What are you thinking for the style of the tang, handle materials, sheath? I love watching projects like this, even when it's not me working on it. There's just something about watching a useful tool come to life out of a raw or re-purposed material. The musso is described as having a bone handle, but IIRC there is no discussion of the tang type. I am planning two different designs. -the rasp will be a full-tang knife with bone scales -the O-1 will be a hidden-tang with an imitation ivory (masecraft) handle and an...interesting...pommel. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 7:39:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Very cool. I'm sure I'm not the only one who will enjoy watching you build them.
I'm not a huge fan of working with bone. I have a coffin handle bowie hanging above my bench that I've been working on, off and on, for....too long that has bone handle scales that I built from an old cow femur that my dog lost interest in. I began the project before I knew that you should wear a respirator when grinding/sanding. I think I smelled that burnt bone smell for days after I roughed out the slabs. Lol |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 7:43:35 PM EDT
[#31]
---StimpsonJ you are exactly correct on "shocker" instead of "tazer"--would be something
the Gehrs fabbed for themselves, really a cattle prod, do you have a better word/phrase? There are a number of 'locutions' in this story where I default to 'recognition' as opposed to 'accuracy'--this would be one. "Cattle prod" doesn't 'look right/etc.' --wanda, when you feel appropriate, would very much like to know--imagine that I am 'mapping' not who 'likes' this story, but who CAN UNDERSTAND IT, .re comprehension, patience, etc. I have a pretty good idea who is here, this story was designed with such things in mind, from the first page--but always need to know more about this--will have big effect on future stories-- --StimpsonJ--original Musso looks like hidden tang but I have never seen pic above/below/spine. I know much less than you about forging/knife design etc but have always liked tapered flat tangs for strength/balance etc. Have always wondered if Musso is hidden tang, was a hole drilled? Tang pinned? Really wish I could handle that blade... |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 9:14:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCBourone:
---StimpsonJ you are exactly correct on "shocker" instead of "tazer"--would be something the Gehrs fabbed for themselves, really a cattle prod, do you have a better word/phrase? There are a number of 'locutions' in this story where I default to 'recognition' as opposed to 'accuracy'--this would be one. "Cattle prod" doesn't 'look right/etc.' Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCBourone:
---StimpsonJ you are exactly correct on "shocker" instead of "tazer"--would be something the Gehrs fabbed for themselves, really a cattle prod, do you have a better word/phrase? There are a number of 'locutions' in this story where I default to 'recognition' as opposed to 'accuracy'--this would be one. "Cattle prod" doesn't 'look right/etc.' Looks like the industry term is 'stun gun'...not much better. Originally Posted By DCBourone:
--StimpsonJ--original Musso looks like hidden tang but I have never seen pic above/below/spine. I know much less than you about forging/knife design etc but have always liked tapered flat tangs for strength/balance etc. Have always wondered if Musso is hidden tang, was a hole drilled? Tang pinned? Really wish I could handle that blade... And this is a wise affinity to have...as the benefits are many. Very well...minor design change. On hidden tangs. They can be made strong, but never as strong as a full tang. The design is simpler and requires less metal. The tricky bit is getting the handle properly secured to prevent rotation. These days makers generally use epoxy for this, but an appropriate curve at the junction of tang and blade can also help to prevent this. On full tangs. These can be problematic from a guard standpoint, if the rear of the tang is wider than the portion near the crossguard. In this case we have a brass crossguard, so it can be made in 2 pieces and soldered and pinned back together over the blade. A necessary pain to get the lines correct on the handle. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 9:24:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCBourone:
--StimpsonJ, three knives, I may have misled you...I am making 2 knives...the third is a throw-in I found at a 'flea market'. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 9:50:29 PM EDT
[#34]
--StimpsonJ, stun gun, yep this is a problem, don't have an 'accurate/aesthetic'
solution. Kind of stuff really bugs me. Same as too much creep in a trigger, a zillion things. Probably not important, but very important to gearhead perfectionist. --tapered tang, understood, hidden tang, understood, have old horn handled kuk, presumably 'burnt in'--never loose, but never used to pry, etc. The cheap Indian kuks have tapered tangs and perfect balance, spines are very soft, extremely tough blades. --I am extremely looking forward to what you come up with. Understood maker/designer 'non-interference'--so, only a hypothesis: a great deal of custom knife-making expertise is "the last mile/foot/inch/fraction" in polish, etc. only some of which increases utility. If this/these knives will 'evolve' over time ( very hopeful ) the first iterations could be marvelously 'rustic' --all line and utility--lots of custom knives with splendid designs I wouldn't even use to cut paper. Japanese blades come to mind here--a good polish is 150 dollars an inch, and a two year wait. The polish itself is an art form, that negates any desire to use--extreme example, but you know what I'm saying. Short form: I'm hoping to see you cut down and tree and butcher a steer with one/all/any of these blades, make a few passes on a stone, and do it again. Ok, enough blabbing. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2017 10:08:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Also - Gabriel new nothing about American politics should be Knew.
The world being prepped - what a concept. "Control the message and control the masses." Well done as always, DCB. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 10:49:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCBourone:... and butcher a steer... I made a knife for a friend in high school. Years later he brought it by for a 'repair'. It was missing a section of the blade just back of the main curve. About 1/4" in length and 1/16" deep. He finally admitted his dad had killed a cow and used that knife to butcher it. Apparently the spine was tough. I fixed it, but smiled the whole time. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 10:54:51 PM EDT
[#37]
--mnmiv--mucht thanks correction. NOW IMAGINE--no, seriously, I have been looking
at this for almost three years now. But I fiddle, fiddle, and diddle, make a change.... and look at it for another six months--AND STILL MISS STUFF LIKE THAT. I had a super proofer look at first 50 pages, another proofer, same same, found zillions of typos/etc./==but I've been tweaking/fiddling since then, every night for a few hours.... Not so much a problem for e-book, errors can be corrected--Print? Huge problem!!! --"control the message"--been going on since the first dude stacked some rocks, said, hey, I think that big white thing in the sky is....coming up again tomorrow!!!! Give me your virgins, your gold, your labor, and oh yeah go kill some folks for me. Because I want their virgins, and their gold, and we can keep a few as slaves, use their labor too. People suck. ( Mostly...) |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 11:27:42 PM EDT
[#38]
--StimpsonJ, knife/steer/highschool--I wish you/he still had that knife.
When I look around at collected 'stuff'--yep, I think of 'the story.' Paleo artifacts blow me away. Have a few. Some dude. Like ME. Knocked that thing out of stone. He was really good at it. And he intended to use it, did use it, killed a bison or whatever, and that is what he did FOR HIS WHOLE LIFE. Jeez. |
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Posted: 1/31/2017 11:59:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCBourone:
--StimpsonJ, knife/steer/highschool--I wish you/he still had that knife. When I look around at collected 'stuff'--yep, I think of 'the story.' Paleo artifacts blow me away. Have a few. Some dude. Like ME. Knocked that thing out of stone. He was really good at it. And he intended to use it, did use it, killed a bison or whatever, and that is what he did FOR HIS WHOLE LIFE. Jeez. Oh he still has the knife...I fixed it. |
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Posted: 2/5/2017 12:55:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Hey yall. I found this story when I was lurking on arfcom quite awhile back. I met DC on another forum but figured it was high time to get an account and make my presence known as I enjoy reading yall's discussion most.
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Posted: 2/5/2017 12:57:37 AM EDT
[#41]
Hey yall. I found this story when I was lurking on arfcom quite awhile back. I met DC on another forum but figured it was high time to get an account and make my presence known as I enjoy reading yall's discussion most.
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Posted: 2/7/2017 3:55:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DCBourone]
[#42]
UPDATE FOLLOWS COMMENTS:
GENERAL NOTE: no solution AmZZZZZZZZZZZZZNN FFFFery. Very good chance will post entire story here. GENERAL NOTE: there has been an issue elsewhere with someone "copy/pasting" a very large chunk of critical text into their own post. This means of course that I cannot edit, fix, or delete. I am very grateful that everyone here seems to understand that it would be sub-optimal for all the 'reveals' in a story of this nature to become permanent and public. Thank you. --StimpsonJ I hope to see more knife progress pics! --CoonT good to see you here, the total 'footnotes' from both places would be I have no idea how many hundreds of thousand of words. Mind-blowing. ----TEXT REMOVED .RE EPUB TOS------------- |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 2/7/2017 4:24:35 PM EDT
[#43]
I think Sylvia will be learning that karma is a bitch very soon.
Awesome update! |
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Posted: 2/7/2017 6:08:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: greyguy]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mnmiv:
I think Sylvia will be learning that karma is a bitch very soon. Awesome update! Yup. The forecast for her future? Just like Tim's: "nothing good..." 
Thanks for the update DC... |
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Posted: 2/7/2017 6:25:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Very nice.
No knife updates this week, un-fun but necessary physical work. I did puzzle out a solution to the crossguard problem that was annoying me...simpler than I thought. |
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Posted: 2/7/2017 8:15:05 PM EDT
[#46]
I'm a bit sad that the Amazon thing isn't working out.
I hope that there will still be a way to get a copy of the complete work somehow, especially a copy on paper. I also look forward to a knife update, as I won't be able to work on my own projects for a bit and I enjoy following along with someone else to scratch my itch to "make" things. |
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Posted: 2/7/2017 8:34:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DCBourone]
[#47]
--DFarm and GENERAL NOTE: book WILL BE ON AMAZON. Problem is mine: book needs to be in KU for
visibility. KU counts "borrows" same as purchases: clearly a borrow which is "free" and can be immediately recycled for another "borrow" at no cost is not the same commitment as a sale--Amazon is provably not paying some writers for page reads--so by joining KU I am tacitly approving at the very least, other writers getting screwed, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Most of this stuff isn't on people's radar, even other writers--they don't know or don't care or both. --GENERAL NOTE: There will absolutely be HARD COPIES, even if I have to print them myself and mail them from a website. The logistics are daunting. It might take awhile. Amazon Createspace is also a sack of shit, for a whole bunch of reasons. Two years ago, I thought Amazon was a benign re-shipper, efficiency mailer of products. NO. That is not what they are doing. --mnmiv, much thanks, let's just say that Sylvia's continuing education will be elaborate, specific, and enduring. --StimpsonJ understood on knife, very much looking forward to any continuing evolution. I just unloaded a Busse Light Brigade--thought it would be a someday indestructible utility tool--very much respect what Busse is doing--he is making his version of 'perfect objects'--but the weight and ergonomics just don't work, can't imagine carrying that thing anywhere, ratio weight to chopping/cutting/slicing is very not good. A superb club/crowbar, not really a knife. Would never have bought except as art, if I had handled one first. A mora and an old Indian kuk with a fiberglassed grip can do pretty much anything I could imagine. All fantasy now anyway--I'm crouched at a computer. |
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Posted: 2/8/2017 8:32:44 AM EDT
[#48]
Count me in for a hard copy, regardless of cost.
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Posted: 2/9/2017 9:56:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DesignatedMarksman:
Count me in for a hard copy, regardless of cost. Agreed... |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 6:09:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Still here. Liked the update.
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