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Posted: 3/19/2017 9:18:05 PM EDT
Boy, a root rake for the skidsteer from the farm would work well, but its on a good hill: too steep to use the skidsteer safely.

I would rather not use herbicides, but this stuff is stupid hard to control organically, especially without heavy equipment.

OK, here is what I got:
Side of the hill is sumac (obviously). I want to turn it into pasture land for the cows, before which I need sumac gone. The stuff is spreading about 15 feet per YEAR, cutting it back constantly be damned. I need this stuff dead. Can't burn, it would not kill the roots. Have to be careful about killing everything anyway, otherwise I risk major erosion issues.

I've killed it very successfully in other areas around here with the skidsteer and just digging the entire area up. Roots don't run deep, 5-6" is plenty. That was on flat(er) ground..

So, anybody got any organic friendly options?
I wonder if I put the pigs in that area for a couple months if they would root it all out? Other than the sumac, its wide open.
I wonder if I cut it all down and laid a huge tarp over it, if that is enough to kill sumac?
Link Posted: 3/20/2017 2:09:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Killing it with Herbicides is tough. They populate through Rhizomes, so you're in for a hell of a fight if you're pulling them.

Keeping them mowed down for a couple years is about the only way, and even then, the stupid birds will spread it back.

On the margins, Velpar works nicely if you aren't worried about burning up trees within 20'. Snip and paint with Tordon works well too, but there will always be more coming up to fight again in a few weeks.

Good luck! I'm at war with 'em right now as well, and am label limited. I hate the damn things!
Link Posted: 3/20/2017 3:18:52 AM EDT
[#2]
I'd cut them down with a saw blade on the trimmer and hit what sprouts with Crossbow.  
Forget hogs/goats, you'll spend all your time and money dealing with animals and still have the Sumac.  Never mind hogs will dig up the soil and provide a perfect seed bed for all those Sumac seeds just waiting to sprout.
Link Posted: 3/20/2017 6:37:25 PM EDT
[#3]
How much sun does the hillside get?  If good sun, look up solarization.  Just cover with plastic and let it bake for a season or two.  Plastic traps heat and cuts moisture for seeds trying to germinate.
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 12:51:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 12:53:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 2:03:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Which kind of sumac is it?  

Just saying make sure it's not toxic to pigs if you put it in there.  ETA:  I think it'll take you the better part of a year, not just a couple of months, even with pigs.  Yes, in my experience they destroy everything, but to get the rhizomes it takes more time than that.  

If you are forced to use chemicals, you might benefit from cutting the plants and paint them with the chemical rather than spray. I've had good luck with this method killing thorny bushes like osage orange, and I avoid the overspray.  I have not tried this with sumac and so don't know, but tossing the idea out there.
View Quote
I checked into it before, it isn't toxic. 

I'm getting pigs anyway, I might see what kind of damage they can do to the root system. Can't hurt, and I would rather not use any chemicals.
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 8:23:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 9:23:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Yup.

I have 2 Berkshire piglets coming end of the month. At some point this year, I'll let them work the soil in at least part if the area.
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 9:41:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 10:02:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Your success will be in direct proportion to the size of your pigs multiplied by the number of pigs, divided by the size of the area.

I figure you already know that.


Three or four decent size pigs will destroy everything down to about two feet deep in a small pen.

Little pigs are not contenders.

Everything in between is calculated with a slide rule.

View Quote
I figure come time of year when there is little forage in the grove anyway where I will be keeping them primarily, I will move them over to the sumac infested area to get what they can and do the digging for me. Once the woods has time to recover, I would move them back.

Or something like that, not sure. I may just mow them down constantly with the sickle mower to see if that works. Would only take me about 30 minutes to cut the area with my Jari sickle mower. That little thing is a beast!
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 10:58:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


S-28, out of curiosity, how many snip/paint cycles of the Tordon do you think you'd have to do to eliminate a stand?

Have you ever been successful with this method alone?
View Quote
Stands of of the crud usually get totally nuked in 3-4 Snip and paint cycles with Tordon(RTU is not restricted) in the same season. About the same with Crossbow.

For being flora, the sumac is rather genius about defending against herbicides. As soon as existing runners that haven't emerged, sense the restricted support from the dying tissues they are attached to, they close down the intake from those tissues, and sprout root tissues, making them independent.

Going back to that stand a couple weeks later, and hitting the new sprouts with the brush saw and a spritz or paint, ends up only having about 1/3 as many coming up later.
2-3 cycles and maybe a 4th as a clean up in early fall gets almost all of 'em.

If a guy has the room, just keeping the area mowed low weekly will starve the things....mostly.
There will be sneaky surviving Rhizomes, that will employ a delayed assault in the late fall, soak up enough sun for dormancy and root growth through winter, and start new next spring.


In the rows of desireables and around trees like I have to deal with, Tordon is death to everything because of root to root transfer, and it's not labled. Velpar is though, and does a better job in a banded application after lopping/snipping. Spots with better than 2% OM have good luck with Sinbar at max rates.

2-4, D, when it was still labled for us, worked decently at max rates for cut and wipe, but there was still risk of damage.
Glyphosate wont even phase the stuff, and I really think it might accelerate spreading it.


On a brighter note, Staghorn Sumac seeds are considered a delicacy by Mediterranean food fans, and brings good $$. If all else, fails....
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 11:39:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 11:51:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Rent goats.
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