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Posted: 4/26/2015 4:59:53 PM EDT
Greetings... I figured this would be the best section to post this.
We've had drainage problems on my property since we moved in. I've always thought it would be sweet to have a pond out there instead of digging it up and running tile, since I have no desire for a big ass yard on both sides of the house. Anyway, last fall some dozers came in and made me a big hole, which filled up with water over the winter. Still looks new since the grass isn't all the way in yet, but it's about 1/4 from my rough measuring, a little over 8' deep in the deepest section, and average of 4' or so in the rest of it. It filled with drainage from our neighbor's property, as well as ours, and our downspouts also pour into it. We put a half gallon of fat head minnows in last week, and I sunk some skids and cinder blocks for breeding habitat for them. The farm suggested a couple white amurs for algea and vegetation control. There will be a fountain added soon for aeration. Past that, I'm seeking advice on what else to put in there. I don't care for bluegills. It's going to be swam in and I know they have a tendency to be aggressive. I like fishing for bass, catfish, and I've had yellow perch suggested, but I don't really have much knowledge on the subject. Here is what is available locally: Price List Stocking Rates And of course, pictures (grass is growing finally): |
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[#1]
Red Ear are good. I would look for a farm store with a company they work with. Those prices a triple or more of what I can get here localy. Look through your conservation office, The Farm Bureau and 4H are other places that may have a program.
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[#2]
The problem I see off the bat is you want to stock with predators and no prey. Any one of your choices of bass/catfish/YP will wipe out the minnows in no time. If you want a semi-healthy "fishery" you will need some prey fish and typically long-term that is going to be bluegills. No matter how many minnows you stock they will disappear quickly in any smaller impoundment. You certainly could use a mix of prey fix but I'm thinking some type of supplemental feeding will be needed. It seems like it would require a bit more active management to run a "monoculture" but it could be done.
Yellow perch can act as both a prey and predator fish. Because of their shape bass would handle them. The problem is they are expensive to stock as prey vs minnow/bluegills. They will most likely not survive very long in your shallow pond. That pond will definitely get pretty hot during the summer and the perch will be kaput. You are headed down the right path by stocking the minnows first. Let them get a few spawns in before you move on to the next step. Typically you would also add bluegills at this point. The minnows keep the prey fish busy until the bluegills get a couple spawns going to then support the prey fish. Your prey fish stocking should be held off as long as you can wait. Even waiting until next year would be great! Your fountain idea is not the best idea for aeration. It will look nice but a bottom aerator ultimately is best to help keep you water healthy. I understand your trepidation with regard to bluegills and swimming. They can be nippers. They don't draw blood but can be annoying when you dangle your toes in the pond. It doesn't bother me but YMMV. You have to decide what is most important for your pond and go from there. I would suggest you head over to Pond Boss forum and ask your question(s) there. You'll find many professionals willing to help who didn't stay at the Holiday Inn last night like I did. P.S. Always be careful of stocking mixes/amounts given to you by those who are trying to sell you fish. |
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[#3]
I've never heard of an aggressive bluegill. Maybe an IDGAF when bedding.
I know you don't want them, but they sure are a blast to catch and will be a food source for the larger fish. How thick does the ice get where you're at? |
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[#4]
Quoted:
I've never heard of an aggressive bluegill. Maybe an IDGAF when bedding. I know you don't want them, but they sure are a blast to catch and will be a food source for the larger fish. How thick does the ice get where you're at? View Quote The last couple years have been pretty cold, but I don't know how to answer that. There are ice fisherman and snowmobiles out on the lakes in the winter time. Dayton, Ohio area if that helps. |
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[#5]
Quoted:
Your fountain idea is not the best idea for aeration. It will look nice but a bottom aerator ultimately is best to help keep you water healthy. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Your fountain idea is not the best idea for aeration. It will look nice but a bottom aerator ultimately is best to help keep you water healthy. Even with the drop tube kit on it? Draws water from the bottom instead of floating on top. I figured that would be good to keep all of the water cycling. You are headed down the right path by stocking the minnows first. Let them get a few spawns in before you move on to the next step. Typically you would also add bluegills at this point. The minnows keep the prey fish busy until the bluegills get a couple spawns going to then support the prey fish. Your prey fish stocking should be held off as long as you can wait. Even waiting until next year would be great! So the bluegills act as good food source for the bass without having the minnows getting wiped out. My main concern with bluegills were having them got overpopulated. It seems like every pond I see has a million of the damn things in it. |
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[#6]
Quoted:
Even with the drop tube kit on it? Draws water from the bottom instead of floating on top. I figured that would be good to keep all of the water cycling. So the bluegills act as good food source for the bass without having the minnows getting wiped out. My main concern with bluegills were having them got overpopulated. It seems like every pond I see has a million of the damn things in it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Your fountain idea is not the best idea for aeration. It will look nice but a bottom aerator ultimately is best to help keep you water healthy. Even with the drop tube kit on it? Draws water from the bottom instead of floating on top. I figured that would be good to keep all of the water cycling. You are headed down the right path by stocking the minnows first. Let them get a few spawns in before you move on to the next step. Typically you would also add bluegills at this point. The minnows keep the prey fish busy until the bluegills get a couple spawns going to then support the prey fish. Your prey fish stocking should be held off as long as you can wait. Even waiting until next year would be great! So the bluegills act as good food source for the bass without having the minnows getting wiped out. My main concern with bluegills were having them got overpopulated. It seems like every pond I see has a million of the damn things in it. Thought you were just speaking of a generic fountain. Yes you should be good to go with one with the drop tube. The one thing you would want to look into is how much water will this fountain move. Does the gallons per minute(hour) rating match up with the size of your pond. Like any aeration method to work best it should be properly sized. Multiple fountains may be required. Typically a pond is stocked first with minnows and bluegills. After a period of time the bass would be stocked. The bass will prey on the minnows first as they are slower swimmers i.e. less work for a meal. The minnows will be wiped out in a small pond. Bluegills will survive to be the long term food for the bass. Yes bluegills can overpopulate. That's where proper pond management comes in. You can go with hybrid bluegill which spawn less prolifically than native bluegill. That is one management step. The other would be to harvest bluegill. Typically you would harvest midsized bluegills if necessary. There is a whole science to it and Pond Boss is where you can learn the basics. Another option is to put in Golden shiners as a supplemental prey fish. I think I saw shiners on the link you posted. That is what I stocked in our ponds. They are much better swimmers and can survive much better. I always have shiners in the pond to go with the bluegills as food for our bass and yellow perch. Fish farms typically don't sell or recommend shiners because you won't be back to buy more. They know you will be back to buy more minnows. The problem then is once the bass are in the pond minnows becomes an expensive snack and will be gone in a couple days. |
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[#7]
Did you have them seal the bowl of the pond with clay? If not it will probably leak into the water table. Mine might be like that I dunno, because it gets really low in the summer.
My pond is a little bit smaller than that, but close. It just has bluegills in it. I put 50 flatheads in it last summer, but I don't know if they survived the harsh winter. I'd like to get some bass, because I have way to many tadpoles, but I'm afraid they'd eat all the bluegills too. The bluegills may not be fun (for adults) to catch, but I think they eat a lot of Mosquitos, and they're pretty resilient. The bottom line is that I did a ton of research last year, and never ended up stocking it. Basically all the fisheries require a rather large order and I don't know if a <1/4 acre pond can sustain that many fish (or whether I want to spend that much $$$). I might do something this summer. |
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[#8]
Quoted:
Thought you were just speaking of a generic fountain. Yes you should be good to go with one with the drop tube. The one thing you would want to look into is how much water will this fountain move. Does the gallons per minute(hour) rating match up with the size of your pond. Like any aeration method to work best it should be properly sized. Multiple fountains may be required. Typically a pond is stocked first with minnows and bluegills. After a period of time the bass would be stocked. The bass will prey on the minnows first as they are slower swimmers i.e. less work for a meal. The minnows will be wiped out in a small pond. Bluegills will survive to be the long term food for the bass. Yes bluegills can overpopulate. That's where proper pond management comes in. You can go with hybrid bluegill which spawn less prolifically than native bluegill. That is one management step. The other would be to harvest bluegill. Typically you would harvest midsized bluegills if necessary. There is a whole science to it and Pond Boss is where you can learn the basics. Another option is to put in Golden shiners as a supplemental prey fish. I think I saw shiners on the link you posted. That is what I stocked in our ponds. They are much better swimmers and can survive much better. I always have shiners in the pond to go with the bluegills as food for our bass and yellow perch. Fish farms typically don't sell or recommend shiners because you won't be back to buy more. They know you will be back to buy more minnows. The problem then is once the bass are in the pond minnows becomes an expensive snack and will be gone in a couple days. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your fountain idea is not the best idea for aeration. It will look nice but a bottom aerator ultimately is best to help keep you water healthy. Even with the drop tube kit on it? Draws water from the bottom instead of floating on top. I figured that would be good to keep all of the water cycling. You are headed down the right path by stocking the minnows first. Let them get a few spawns in before you move on to the next step. Typically you would also add bluegills at this point. The minnows keep the prey fish busy until the bluegills get a couple spawns going to then support the prey fish. Your prey fish stocking should be held off as long as you can wait. Even waiting until next year would be great! So the bluegills act as good food source for the bass without having the minnows getting wiped out. My main concern with bluegills were having them got overpopulated. It seems like every pond I see has a million of the damn things in it. Thought you were just speaking of a generic fountain. Yes you should be good to go with one with the drop tube. The one thing you would want to look into is how much water will this fountain move. Does the gallons per minute(hour) rating match up with the size of your pond. Like any aeration method to work best it should be properly sized. Multiple fountains may be required. Typically a pond is stocked first with minnows and bluegills. After a period of time the bass would be stocked. The bass will prey on the minnows first as they are slower swimmers i.e. less work for a meal. The minnows will be wiped out in a small pond. Bluegills will survive to be the long term food for the bass. Yes bluegills can overpopulate. That's where proper pond management comes in. You can go with hybrid bluegill which spawn less prolifically than native bluegill. That is one management step. The other would be to harvest bluegill. Typically you would harvest midsized bluegills if necessary. There is a whole science to it and Pond Boss is where you can learn the basics. Another option is to put in Golden shiners as a supplemental prey fish. I think I saw shiners on the link you posted. That is what I stocked in our ponds. They are much better swimmers and can survive much better. I always have shiners in the pond to go with the bluegills as food for our bass and yellow perch. Fish farms typically don't sell or recommend shiners because you won't be back to buy more. They know you will be back to buy more minnows. The problem then is once the bass are in the pond minnows becomes an expensive snack and will be gone in a couple days. Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I have been reading the pond boss forum off and on for awhile, there is quite a bit to take in. The one I had planned on buying was the 1/2HP model here. Moves 3200gph. The deepest spot is just over 8'. The woman I talked to at the store said the drop tube kit is usually only recommended over 8', since the fountain itself sticks down in the water 3', and it needs to stay 12-18" off of the bottom, so I'd only be putting a 3' pipe on it anyway (I still figured this was the way to go). And of course my wife likes the light fixture kit also. Since it's rated for a bigger pond than I have, it seems like it would be more than adequate for cycling the water off of the bottom. Going the opposite way, I've also been looking at diffusers. Robust Aire That would be a little cheaper to buy, looks like a little cheaper to run, but provide no decoration at all. It would think it would work for me in preventing evaporation when it gets really hot out (assumption). I already ran a 20 amp circuit out towards where I would need it. Do you think the water quality would be noticeably different with one of these over the other? |
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[#9]
Quoted:
Did you have them seal the bowl of the pond with clay? If not it will probably leak into the water table. Mine might be like that I dunno, because it gets really low in the summer. My pond is a little bit smaller than that, but close. It just has bluegills in it. I put 50 flatheads in it last summer, but I don't know if they survived the harsh winter. I'd like to get some bass, because I have way to many tadpoles, but I'm afraid they'd eat all the bluegills too. The bluegills may not be fun (for adults) to catch, but I think they eat a lot of Mosquitos, and they're pretty resilient. The bottom line is that I did a ton of research last year, and never ended up stocking it. Basically all the fisheries require a rather large order and I don't know if a <1/4 acre pond can sustain that many fish (or whether I want to spend that much $$$). I might do something this summer. View Quote They hit clay with the dozers pretty much right away. It was bone dry when they finished digging it at the end of August last year, but we had no rain for about a month at that point. Right after they got it done we got a pretty good storm that put a few inches in the bottom, and it has gradually risen all winter and spring. I didn't notice any significant drop during periods of no precipitation. I do wonder how much we will lose in the summer time when it gets hot out, but so far I was pleased with how quickly it filled up since we transitioned from snow to rain. |
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[#10]
There is a whole lot more to it than digging a hole, filling it with water and tossing some fish in, for sure!
The volume of water in your pond should be calculated Pond Sizing Calculator. Then the math can be done to determine the correct aerator to turn over the water a reasonable number of times per day. What is reasonable should be left to the pros on Pond Boss. Spend a little time yourself to make rough calculations so you can keep salespeople honest. I'm not qualified or comfortable making a recommendation. I will agree the fountain system would evaporate more water. I'm not familiar with the efficiency or durability of the fountains. We use bottom diffusers in all 3 of our ponds because they are deep(25' maximum w/15' avg depth). As far as water quality difference being noticeable from one system to another, I don't know. I would think a bottom diffuser would be better at moving more of the water in the pond. Another thought is would the fountain have to be brought in for the winter? We leave our bottom diffuser systems in place all year round. We do run them in the winter to avoid winter fish kills. The diffusers are moved to shallower water in the fall to avoid supercooling the whole pond. You can also learn about winter aeration at Pond Boss. |
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[#11]
The fountain can go all winter long.
I will continue reading about it at the other forum. |
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[#12]
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[#13]
The white Amur will not touch algea unless that is the only thing for them to eat.
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[#14]
Before you get your predators in, get a bunch of bull frog tadpoles...
I stocked my small yard pond(15x20ft) with 75 tadpoles a year for 3 years. Finally got them, about 5 or 6 made it to adult hood, to maturity to where I think they may start reproducing on their own. They were largely nocturnal for first 2 years and now they are out during the day as well. Get some good rock and ground cover around the edges. The surrounding mini ecosystem interests me more than having apex predators in the pond. I like to use tropical aquarium fish during the summer. Whatever I dont want to pull out to store in my house aquariums gets wiped out during winter around oct/nov when the water temps drop. Things like mollies and jack dempsies which breed like crazy get the reset button in winter. |
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[#15]
Funny you mention tadpoles, we were walking around last evening and saw a bunch of them swimming around.
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[#17]
Bass/ bluegill (bream) / catfish work good together in a pond. Crappie (as much as I love them) don't fit in well to sustain a pond mixture until the pond gets to be 6 acres.
So says the extension folks. |
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[#18]
Bluegills are the best eating fish EVER (scale them, leave the skin on) and if you have kids, they are perfect for "Look what I caught, Daddy!" fishing experiences.
Not sure why you don't like them, and okay if you don't want them, but they're great fish in a pond for all kinds of reasons. |
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[#19]
I don't mind them being in there, the wife hates them "because they'll bite us if we swim".
I'll go with a veto and she'll get over it. |
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[#20]
I think I was going too big with the aearator and fountain.
I found a smaller one that I think will work just fine. It is still rated for a bigger pond than I have, and it is $1000 cheaper than what I originally was going to buy. Airpro |
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[#21]
Quoted:
I don't mind them being in there, the wife hates them "because they'll bite us if we swim". I'll go with a veto and she'll get over it. View Quote Well, just don't swim 'nekkid'! Seriously, it doesn't matter if you didn't stock with what we call 'bream', which include all the small sunfish--bluegill, green sunfish (bait stealers), redear, , etc. A pond always ends up with them anyway. I don't know how, maybe waterbirds. But even if you never stocked it, in a couple years you could go out there and find bream in it. Just the way it is. Looks like a really nice place you got there. |
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[#22]
Quoted:
I don't mind them being in there, the wife hates them "because they'll bite us if we swim". I'll go with a veto and she'll get over it. View Quote Diving, I've been nibbled on by all kinds of fish. I've never had it hurt, but I'm not saying other people haven't been actually bitten. Just surprised at that fear/reasoning. |
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[#23]
I'm in Dayton. Let me know when you figure it out so I can come help you pull some bass out of there.
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[#24]
Quoted:
Bass/ bluegill (bream) / catfish work good together in a pond. Crappie (as much as I love them) don't fit in well to sustain a pond mixture until the pond gets to be 6 acres. So says the extension folks. View Quote I've fished in a much smaller (2 acre) pond on a friends property, and the crappie are thriving among largies and some cats. Bluegills are the main food source, but rare to catch, as the bass population is constantly looking for food and will bite at almost anything. To OP, I have to recommend stocking bluegill as food for the bass. I've not experienced them being aggressive (other than nibbles). When I think of something that could be a danger to me in a pond, I'm looking more towards snappers. |
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[#25]
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[#26]
Quoted:
Probably toads. I HATE TOADS. Kill on sight in my yard. My predatory stuff goes into the pond about 2 weeks after i see toad tadpoles. Free food for the fish. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Funny you mention tadpoles, we were walking around last evening and saw a bunch of them swimming around. Probably toads. I HATE TOADS. Kill on sight in my yard. My predatory stuff goes into the pond about 2 weeks after i see toad tadpoles. Free food for the fish. Just out of curiosity.. Why in the world do you hate toads? They harm nothing and eat all kinds of bugs. Very interested in this. |
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[#27]
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Diving, I've been nibbled on by all kinds of fish. I've never had it hurt, but I'm not saying other people haven't been actually bitten. Just surprised at that fear/reasoning. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't mind them being in there, the wife hates them "because they'll bite us if we swim". I'll go with a veto and she'll get over it. Diving, I've been nibbled on by all kinds of fish. I've never had it hurt, but I'm not saying other people haven't been actually bitten. Just surprised at that fear/reasoning. If you're saying she's nuts I won't argue |
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[#28]
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If you're saying she's nuts I won't argue View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I don't mind them being in there, the wife hates them "because they'll bite us if we swim". I'll go with a veto and she'll get over it. Diving, I've been nibbled on by all kinds of fish. I've never had it hurt, but I'm not saying other people haven't been actually bitten. Just surprised at that fear/reasoning. If you're saying she's nuts I won't argue Not saying that at all. Must be some reason she's afraid of getting bitten by fish, and hey, we all have our issues. I think bluegills just sort of tickle. Makes me smile when they nibble on me. I've come face to face with much bigger fish, never with any harm. I've heard of divers going down in the river here and encountering catfish the size of a volkswagon (this was below a cliff where a meat packing plant used to dump the trimmings every day.) Heard this when I was in dive rescue school from three different seasoned divers. I've avoided that part of the river. So bluegill seem fairly tame as compared to that. |
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[#32]
In Kentucky the state will stock your pond for a really small fee, check with your local fish and game people.
LOL Aggressive bluegills? Are you joking? |
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[#33]
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