User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 12:07:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Flatbed trailer.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 1:22:32 AM EDT
[#2]
you are going to need to design for about 70,000 pounds gross vehicle weight. i would not half-ass this; you need a professional engineer (P.E.) and a complete site survey. ar-jedi 
http://beatricedailysun.com/news/local/bridge-collapses-under-weight-of-concrete-truck/article_7661366e-8e54-11e0-b65b-001cc4c03286.html June 04, 2011 6:00 am • Daily Sun staff reports A bridge just south of Wymore collapsed under the weight of a Beatrice Concrete truck Friday afternoon. The privately owned bridge leads to the residence of Jan and Merlin Meyer and is located about a mile south of Wymore on Highway 77. The driver of the truck was an employee of Beatrice Concrete. He was not injured in the incident. Several people gathered around the site Friday afternoon as heavy machinery was brought in to pull the concrete truck out of the creek. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 8:24:44 AM EDT
[#3]
The simplest and most durable with the least maintenance requirement is a culvert. Concrete will last indefinitely, but will cost more than metal. Metal will rust out in a flowing stream.
Be sure of your local and state regulations. I haven't worked in TN in a long time and I'm not current with the regs. Find a good grading contractor and discuss it with him. You may be exempt from regs with a stream crossing and if under a certain area of disturbance or you may have to have a plan prepared by a Civil Engineer. IM me if you want more info. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 8:27:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Culvert, fill dirt
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 10:19:17 AM EDT
[#5]
incorrect, if the sides are low enough the simplest cheapest solution is a rock ford made of geotextile and rock of the correct size. couple grand
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 10:33:04 AM EDT
[#6]
My company built one for an energy company in PA, total bill ended up being over 800k...now, I am sure you don't need to get dump trucks and excavators across it but they get expensive fast.
depending on soils and any geological shit you need to get around. I agree with the above, need a PE and then decide on what the best (cheapest) option is. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 10:37:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My company build one for an energy company in PA, total bill ended up being over 800k...now, I am sure you don't need to get dump trucks and excavators across it but they get expensive fast. 800k? 
While this is not a picture of my land (don't have one handy), this is the type of creek I'm trying to cross. In fact, this one has more water than mine does. 
I'm not needing to cross something big like this: 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 10:40:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 800k? While this is not a picture of my land (don't have one handy), this is the type of creek I'm trying to cross. In fact, this one has more water than mine does. http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/uploadedImages/Planning_%28new_site_map_walk-through%29/Level_3_-_General/creeks.JPG I'm not needing to cross something big like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Larrys_Creek_in_SGL_114.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My company build one for an energy company in PA, total bill ended up being over 800k...now, I am sure you don't need to get dump trucks and excavators across it but they get expensive fast. 800k? While this is not a picture of my land (don't have one handy), this is the type of creek I'm trying to cross. In fact, this one has more water than mine does. http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/uploadedImages/Planning_%28new_site_map_walk-through%29/Level_3_-_General/creeks.JPG I'm not needing to cross something big like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Larrys_Creek_in_SGL_114.jpg That being said. I have a buddy who spanned a creek like you have by building a bridge out of telephone poles...it works just fine for taking vehicles across. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 10:43:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Probably a culvert pipe. There are metal, concrete, and plastic ones? i'm not sure what the plastic/polymer/rubber ones are made of but I bet they last a long time. I've seen them around during construction projects.
I priced a 10 foot diameter one before, it was about 8K for for 20 feet, plus the truck for delivery and crane to move it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 10:51:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: incorrect, if the sides are low enough the simplest cheapest solution is a rock ford made of geotextile and rock of the correct size. couple grand Since he is wanting to take a concrete truck across I suspect he is building something he wants to access even after a heavy rain. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 11:48:43 AM EDT
[#11]
I know of a bridge that was nothing more than concrete culverts laid side by side and then once the culverts were laid in, they poured concrete over the whole thing, turning it in to a bridge.
Seems to work. No idea what the weight capacity is but it's been there for many years. I'm sure it could support a concrete truck. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 3:56:10 PM EDT
[#12]
How is the rest of the area for a vehicle that heavy and large?
I rather like the concept of several culverts laid down and concrete poured over them, depending on creek bed you might need to create a support for the culverts before putting them in place. A bridge is only something I would use if I needed the height from the water. If you are going to want to put in a serious driveway that will last you will be bringing in people and equipment that do this sort of thing a fair bit and I don't see an issue. If you think the whole area can support a cement truck other than the creek, well I would start figuring out the loading of the tires and messing around in the creek to see what sort of base you have to mess with. I personally get paranoid with any running water and today's gov thinking they need to micromanage everything. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 8:04:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Hell, get you some culverts, and set them in to cement, make you a low water bridge. will handle all the traffic you want, and a flood
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 10:24:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
What can you tell me about crossing a small creek (10 - 15 feet across, spring fed, depth of 0-5 inches, minimal water flow, rock bottom)? I'm a bit intimidated.... am I looking at $5k? $25k? $100k? Whatever solution we go with must be able to support a cement truck, as our goal is to go with ICF. Don't bridge, ford. A load or two of rip-rap or railroad ballast is all you need. ETA, we have a county road next county over that's an open ford. The key to a good ford is the creek bed; if it's hard rock (as yours appears to be) and only experiences occasional stormflow, it's the bestest cheapest alternative. If you want to "engineer" it, however, check your state Forestry Department for stream crossing specs. They should publish a BMP manual that will either give the specs or point you to where they are. There are well-established standards for culvert sizing based on drainage basin size, average percent slope in the basin, and general soil types and land cover. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/29/2014 11:54:07 PM EDT
[#15]
With culverts or tiles, the main factors are the size and slope of the watershed behind the culvert and the size of the storm event you want to be able to pass thru the culverts. As a general rule of thumb you want to cover over the top of the culvert 1/2 the diameter of the metal culvert. Example, 48-inch culvert at least 24-inches of cover. I have gotten away with less cover but... if you are driving a concrete truck over it I wouldn't go with much less cover. #2 culverts- 48-inch diameter x 20 feet long will handle alot of flow. Rip rap rock, transition to small layer of 2-3 inch stone, then layer of crush and run. $5,000 to $10,000 assuming you can get a rock truck to deliver to your site, and you have the equipment to install the culverts, back hoe would work nicely or a tractor with a bucket and a box blade. As some have mentioned you can back fill with concrete, it is a good option, just be mindful of the size of the pour and the amount of bracing you can get on there. Last thing you want is a concrete form blow out in a creek. You may need to do several small pours depending on the forms you use. I would almost say if the creek has banks that would have to be cut out to install a ford go with a culvert or culverts. If not and you have a smooth transition go with a ford. I prefer fords, but it the creeks rise you will on one side or the other till it goes down. If you need more info let me know. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2014 1:10:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Look at what the guy upstream and downstream of your new driveway did.
Take a couple of pictures to the local excavator and ask what it would cost. Also check with the county (road commission and/ or drain commission) and see if they specify a culvert size and have engineered plans available to use. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2014 1:24:56 AM EDT
[#17]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2014 1:33:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryLOL hell, it even says it right in the ad! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2014 1:35:53 AM EDT
[#19]
A ford sounds like the lowest cost, lowest maintenance, lowest cost to replace option. I would deffinitly look into it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2014 1:40:23 AM EDT
[#20]
There are a number of low water bridges across creeks here. They are essentially just a slab poured across the creek bed where there is an easy approach on both sides.
Water just runs over the slab when the creek level is higher. Of course that means you can't necessarily cross it until the water goes back down. Not sure about permitting for that now, but it's a pretty simple option for a low flow stream. What's the spring look like? This isn't here, but you get the idea. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2014 10:07:37 AM EDT
[#21]
I haven't seen the spring itself (not on my land).
As for what the neighbors did - they built near the road! We would be the first to build on the back of the lots. The creek/stream is at the bottom of a valley. We can regrade as necessary, but there is a pretty good slope going down to it and then back up from it. I've been looking at concrete box culverts, as it looks like one large (sized 1.25x width of stream) one placed on footers would span the creek just fine. I've got the slope to do it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2014 7:42:59 PM EDT
[#22]
I know it can be financially painful but a PE is the way to go because there are many variables. Just because there is rock in the stream bed it doesn't mean that there aren't "fines", sand, silt etc that could allow water to undermine the bearing points. A PE will also look at the "hundred year rainfall chart" for the area. A tame looking spring/ drainage swale could get violent during a freak storm.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/30/2014 7:46:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know it can be financially painful but a PE is the way to go because there are many variables. Just because there is rock in the stream bed it doesn't mean that there aren't "fines", sand, silt etc that could allow water to undermine the bearing points. A PE will also look at the "hundred year rainfall chart" for the area. A tame looking spring/ drainage swale could get violent during a freak storm. I have every intention of retaining the services of a professional engineer. I just wanted to get some ideas and some personal experiences and recommendations to better educate myself on the options. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 9:45:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Culverts with sufficient base below and above and good abutments. Saw some really good culvert systems in Afghanistan, wish I had a picture to share.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/2/2014 11:30:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Cant say anything about the cost but remember you will not only need a PE to design it you will probably also need a permit from the Corp of Engineers to build it as well as your state department of natural resources.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/2/2014 9:57:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cant say anything about the cost but remember you will not only need a PE to design it you will probably also need a permit from the Corp of Engineers to build it as well as your state department of natural resources. I don't think the Corps has anything to do with a seasonal, non-navigable water source. Talk to the PE a little. Culverts are probably going to be just fine. Ensure solid base, sufficient fill on top, and riprap on both sides. And just be prepared for that bad storm that might erode it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/3/2014 9:42:05 PM EDT
[#27]
culvert information:
http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/nps/urban/upload/2003_07_24_NPS_unpavedroads_ch3.pdf alezx |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/3/2014 9:45:18 PM EDT
[#28]
culvert installation:
http://www.blm.gov/bmp/low%20volume%20engineering/J_Ch8_Culvert_Use_Installation_&_Sizing.pdf alex |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/5/2014 10:41:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think the Corps has anything to do with a seasonal, non-navigable water source. Talk to the PE a little. Culverts are probably going to be just fine. Ensure solid base, sufficient fill on top, and riprap on both sides. And just be prepared for that bad storm that might erode it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cant say anything about the cost but remember you will not only need a PE to design it you will probably also need a permit from the Corp of Engineers to build it as well as your state department of natural resources. I don't think the Corps has anything to do with a seasonal, non-navigable water source. Talk to the PE a little. Culverts are probably going to be just fine. Ensure solid base, sufficient fill on top, and riprap on both sides. And just be prepared for that bad storm that might erode it. they are trying to, they were/ are in the process of calling anything that has flowing water in it anywhere, ever a jurisdicational waterway |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/5/2014 11:55:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cant say anything about the cost but remember you will not only need a PE to design it you will probably also need a permit from the Corp of Engineers to build it as well as your state department of natural resources. Actually that is may not true. The TDEC ARAP General Permits for road Construction will allow for a road to be built without notice, given that the guidelines are followed and the road is less than 25-feet in width. Basically the permit is already writen. The Corps, well it depends on what you are dealing with as far as the water course. Give your discription you probably do not need a Corpspermit, you can send one in, they will probably give you one. If I did not have to I would not go to the trouble. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/6/2014 12:23:31 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 800k? While this is not a picture of my land (don't have one handy), this is the type of creek I'm trying to cross. In fact, this one has more water than mine does. http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/uploadedImages/Planning_%28new_site_map_walk-through%29/Level_3_-_General/creeks.JPG I'm not needing to cross something big like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Larrys_Creek_in_SGL_114.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My company build one for an energy company in PA, total bill ended up being over 800k...now, I am sure you don't need to get dump trucks and excavators across it but they get expensive fast. 800k? While this is not a picture of my land (don't have one handy), this is the type of creek I'm trying to cross. In fact, this one has more water than mine does. http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/uploadedImages/Planning_%28new_site_map_walk-through%29/Level_3_-_General/creeks.JPG I'm not needing to cross something big like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Larrys_Creek_in_SGL_114.jpg Buy a 4x4. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/6/2014 11:17:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have every intention of retaining the services of a professional engineer. I just wanted to get some ideas and some personal experiences and recommendations to better educate myself on the options. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know it can be financially painful but a PE is the way to go because there are many variables. Just because there is rock in the stream bed it doesn't mean that there aren't "fines", sand, silt etc that could allow water to undermine the bearing points. A PE will also look at the "hundred year rainfall chart" for the area. A tame looking spring/ drainage swale could get violent during a freak storm. I have every intention of retaining the services of a professional engineer. I just wanted to get some ideas and some personal experiences and recommendations to better educate myself on the options. We hired an excavator to cross a stream bed that was about 15 or 20 ft across. The surrounding ground was steep and the soil adjoining the stream was of poor quality. I think that crossing cost about 70K. It consisted of two 4ft diameter concrete culverts and poured concrete to help hold it together. The shoulders got the usual rip rap treatment. A large part of the cost was removing the bad soil and hauling in borrowed soil/clay from elsewhere on the farm. We also had to cut a lot of soil on one side of the crossing to a level grade which served as a spillway during freak storms. A soil test had been taken in advance so there was very little unexpected costs... I have no idea how that cost compares to a larger box type culvert. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/6/2014 3:32:54 PM EDT
[#33]
I have a small spring fed creek similar to the one the OP describes. We used a 20' section of metal culvert and local fill dirt/rock. Cost: ~$1K. However, I do not know if it would hold a fully loaded concrete truck.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/29/2014 10:23:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Just an idea
Tank Car Culverts http://www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/Listings.php?type=Tank%20Car%20Culverts&fsw=FS |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/30/2014 10:06:31 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a small spring fed creek similar to the one the OP describes. We used a 20' section of metal culvert and local fill dirt/rock. Cost: ~$1K. However, I do not know if it would hold a fully loaded concrete truck. I would install 3 24" dia , 20' plastic culverts. I would lay them down with about 2 to 3 foot spacing between them and ill in with dirt/rocks at least 18" above the culvert and do an all rock on the edges and a all thin layer of small rocks on top. i had concrete trucks cross over my plastic 24" culvert with less than a foot cover with no damage. just make sure your grade to the creek is not to much of an angle. How much water flows in a heavy rain? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/30/2014 11:15:34 AM EDT
[#36]
I did it twice on my land using underground fuel tanks that had been pulled and the ends cut out.
One 18'x5' .250 wall, and one 21.5'x6' .325 wall. I cleaned up the banks, rolled it in and covered with concrete washout. The bigger of the two had had 12yd bobtail dump trucks over it without any sweat at all. Check your local scrap yards and tell them what you are looking for. Steel will corrode yes, but it won't be in your lifetime. Mine cost nothing for any of it because it was all sourced from friends as salvage. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
