First time trying it the "recommended" way, with starter culture & potassium...it's not hard once you gather all the info, but it is a lot of digging and asking questions to get the info.  Humidity, temperature, which culture to use & how to deploy it, how much of each ingredient, etc. etc...also can be a lot of equipment such as a humidity and refridgerator temperature controller...

Anyone else make these & have any tips?

I move these to the fridge tomorrow & I'll know in about 2 months if this worked ok, but so far they look good, wish me luck!

Grinding


Starter Culture "Waking Up"



Stuffing



Poking holes to let air out



Fridge rack for drying...notice the 550 Cord!



Another view, with humidifier and humidity guage (what's the proper name for that again??)



View of total set up, with humidifier, fan, ice water, thermometer, humidity reader, blanket, box to keep the humidity locked in



Closer view



Final set-up, with blanket to cover it all and keep the humidity locked in



After only 24 hours...I think I'm doing ok so far!

looks like they are starting to cure nicely. When do you put them in the fridge and cut the humidity?

LOL, this is actually in the basement, all of it a backup kitchen set-up, and I don't think I've ever even used that oven in the 5 years we've had the house.  All the other appliances yes, but not the oven...

Thank you for the nice compliment about the counters, but they are actually formica!  Made to look like granite / marble.  Looks nice but the pressed board swelled up a little from water by the sink :(






With this culture (TSX), they are supposed to ferment for at least 48 hours, which means I transfer them tonight when I get home from work...

Hi,

For the starter culture bacteria I used Bactoferm T-SPX (this is the one recommened for slow cures of a couplf of months or more).  

And also sugar & dextrose for the starter culture bacteria to feed on, and non iodized salt and instacure / curing salt # 2 (nitrate).

The instacure nitate is looked down upon a lot by the organic crowd, but I look down on botulism and wasting all this meat & hard work, so I used it.


Sausage Maker  and  Butcher & Packer are both good sources for this stuff...Mack at Sausage Maker customer service is really great & very helpful...

Sausage Maker culture

Sausage Maker instacure # 2

Butcher Packer culture

Buture Packer curing salt # 2


The humidity is at 80% when the blanket is on, and that is without the set up being 100% wrapped up, and a big fan blowing on it, which is the perfect setting for the first 2 days.  The temp has been perfect, too, at about 68 - 72 degrees...I think it really helps that it is in the basement & plus I have a bucket of ice water under it so that helps to keep it cool too.  I revised it today to use a big block of frozen water so as to not have to pay for ice anymore (why didn't I think of that earlier??)

Tonight I move it to the fridge for the next 2 months, and for that I have both a temp controller & a humidity controller, which will turn the fridge & the humidifier on & off as necessary, to keep it at 46 - 50 degrees and at about 66% humidity.  You're supposed to keep dropping it to keep it 5% below the humidity inside the sausage, but I have no way of measuring that, so I will just keep it at 65%.

I am concerned though about airflow in fridge...I might have to open it periodically to get some new fresh air in there...not sure if just changing the water in the humidifier every now & then is enough.  And I am hoping I didn't blow too much air on them and dry the outside too much too quickly & lock in the internal moisture...

Learn as I go!

From Sausage Maker...not exactly cheap, man!

Controller

Good job !!

They look great....

Thanks!  Damn, did you notice that was your 2,000th post?  I feel honored...

heck the humidity control is a drop in the bucket compared to that sausage press. Please keep us informed about the progress. I'm wondering if  you could use the same tool to measure humidity of your sausages that carvers use to figure the moisture content of wood?

Looks great!

I got some good info here and from the links located there when I made some andouille last year, but I think you're definitely on track!

Wow, didn't know there was such a tool...I found a link for a hand held moisture measuring tool, about 4" x 6", and the website didn't list a price; you had to contact and ask them...you know what that means.

So I e-mailed them and they quoted me $2,000!!

I had been hoping maybe $200 or so...so I said thanks but no thanks; didn't realize it was THAT kind of expensive!

I got the sausage stuffer press for a great price at Northern Tool during a double sale...20% off, and plus free shipping, too!  And it is priced way lower than any other site I found...I got the 15 pound version.  Definitely recommended over the 5 pound version because that one has plastic gears that slip & break easily

Right now it's on sale for $195.49...a steal compared to most places!  26 out of 26 people recommend it, too...

15 pound stuffer at Northern Tool

I moved them to the fridge tonight..still mussing around with the humidity controls...I have 4 (FOUR!) hygrometers, and they are all singing a different tune..pretty damn annoying.

Anyways, here's the pics of them in an extra fridge in my garage that I got for my sis a few years ago (and that's why the outside is not the prettiest), which will hopefully be their happy home for the next 2 months...

Rack moved to the fridge, humidifier goes in the fridge as well



Humidity Controller & a BUIS of sorts, ha..notice the vastly different readings



Wires for the electrical to the humidifier & the thermometer probe...weather stripping added but surprisingly not needed



Temperature controller; turns the fridge on & off so it stays around 46 - 50..the orange light tells you the fridge is on, to cool down



I'll be adding a digital hygrometer that allows me to read it without having to open the door, supposedly it has an optional salt kit tha allows it to be very precise...who the heck even knew such things existed??

I noticed the little tag inside the fridge... is that 9.5 " grams " of salt per lb ?

I was wondering...

Hey !!  Wanna throw some hickory smoke in there...? ... just kiddin'......

Yep, I received a few different recipies, and so I hedged my bets and made two different batches...one with 12.7 grams of salt per pound, and another with 9.5 grams.  And when you look how much 3 grams of salt actually is, it is such a small amount that I don't know if it will make any difference in taste or spoilage protection...

Hickory Smoke...mmmmm!!  That will be used on the pork belly for bacon I have coming.  

That seems to be an incredibly easy recipie...coat in Morton's Tender Quick for 7 - 8 days in the fridge at 38 degrees (with somthing under to slant it so that the liquid drains) and then smoke it for 8 hours...

I found this online somewhere once:

It is my experience that bacon is the easiest slow smoked product to produce at home and the results are as good as, or better than, the best commercially produced bacon.

I use Morton Tender Quick and brown sugar.

I cut the pork belly in two and cure it with the meat surfaces face to face and the skin on the outside. It helps it fit in the fridge and improves the curing action.

Rub down a slab of fresh bacon (pork belly) with a liberal quantity of the Tender Quick. You can't really use too much but a cup or so should do.

Then follow with a thorough rub of brown sugar (again, start with a cup or so).

Then place the meat in heavy plastic and allow to cure for 7 days at 38F. I use a small refrigerator for this. I run a remote temperature probe inside and monitor the temperature, tweaking the thermostat when necessary. The temperature is important; too low (below 36F) and the curing action will cease, too high (above 40F) and the meat will begin to spoil.

I then smoke it at 140-150F until the internal temperature of the pork reaches 128F (about 8 to 10 hours). I find it best to remove the skin about 3/4 of the way through the smoking process. This way the fat is protected but still acquires some color.

Chill overnight before using. Slice into approximately 3/16" thick and fry as usual.

If you are using Prague Powder #1, mix 2 oz with 1 lb of salt and use like the Tender Quick.

Other sugars can be used instead of brown sugar. Try honey or even some maple syrup.


Here's another one, which uses NO nitrites or nitrates, which a lot of people feel very strongly about, with good reason:  Home curing bacon

FYI on your hydrometers:

Take a bottlecap full of regular table salt.
Add 5-6 drops of distilled water (enough to turn the salt mushy, but not liquid)
Place your bottlecap in a ziplock bag with your hydrometers.
Wait 24hrs.

Each hydrometer should read 75% after 24hr.  If it doesn't it's the fault of the hydrometer.  Just mark on the hydrometer +3, -2, however.

this:

this:

or maybe this:

???

volume matters. How much are you talking about?

On another note, this is an interesting setup.
I bet those racks are too flimsy for a full sized prosciutto ham though.

I would like to see someone here "try their hand" at one of those.

What size ziplock? Is that ziplock inflated (if so, how) or with most air squished out? (really not trying to be a pain, just curious)

Thx,

sgt_seti

That's my third in line project!  After I try curing bacon this week...

A normal quart sized sandwich ziplock always worked for me.  I didn't blow it up, nor did I push out the air.  I just tossed in the salt and hygrometer and let it do it's thing.

Side note:
Hygrometer tests the relative humidity of the air.
Hydrometer tests the specific gravity of liquids.

By the way, that sausage looks awesome!

Thanks man!  So far so good still, but at least another 2 weeks (or a month and 2 weeks) to go...keeping my fingers crossed...

bumpage for updatage.  Another week? Another month?

No Archive for this thread!

Hi, thanks for asking...

I thought the small test pieces were done on this past Thurs based on feel (even though it was at least still one week early), so I cut a piece off of each and it turned out that the middles were indeed still too soft and squishy.  Beautiful color all the way through, tho, so that was nice.  My one concern was that the outsides may have gotten too dry soon, which will block any more moisture transfer out from the insides, which will cause them to rot from the inside out.  But Mack over at The Sausage Maker asked if the outside had a darker color than the inside, and since no, they did not, he says he thinks it will be ok.  I also raised the humidity level (very, very hard to keep stable since the fridge just sucks it all out once or twice a day & then it needs to rebuild), and he said he believes that should help as well.

No fuzzy mold at all so far...I did get the tiniest specks of white "good" mold here & there on just a few, but I like no mold and so I wiped them down with white vinegar and it went away instantly...

I think they need about another week minimum, probably more likely 2 or 3, but I will keep checking and keep updating this thread..

Thanks again!

Final pics...they taste pretty good, but not as good as the ones we buy at the italian butcher shop.  

Lessons learned:  I think I should have used more fermentation bacteria, I let them dry a little too long, and the fridge pulling out the humidity every 24 hours didn't help - I think I will try using a drying box in a cool area next time where the humidity can be kept at a more constant & higher level.  

But not bad at all for my first time!

Scrap5000, first let me say you've done a magnificent job here!  My masters thesis dealt with fermented meats like this but since then, I've done little of my own.  Here are some points for you that may help.  The salt you used 12.7 or 9.5g is not so much for taste as to provide proper conditions for the lactic acid producing bacteria in your starter culture to grow and produce lactic acid.  Question:  Did you see a difference in acidity (tangy taste) between your two salt levels?  If so, the one that is the most tangy is the one that will have the most flavor and shelf life.  You might want to get some pH strips somewhere (chemical supply house, pharmacy) and look for a pH in your final product of 4.8 to 5.0.  Also, you should have about 3.5% salt in the final product.  You should be able to find a reputable lab in your area that can do a salt and pH evaluation on your product, at least at first.  Here in my area you could get a salt and a pH done for $18 each.  I'm not suggesting you do this on each batch but perhaps on the first one or two.

Anyway, that looks like some mighty fine sausage and you should be very proud!

Thanks!  And I have a bunch of questions, if you can help me out...

I don't notice any difference in the tanginess at all, just that the 12.7 gr/pound is actually a little too salty.  Is the 3.5% the pre or post drying percentage?

And also, neither one actually taste tangy, but the ones we buy from the italian butcher shop do.  I am thinking that I did not use enough starter culture (I read somewhere else that if you are making less than 50 pounds then you should use at least 1/2 of the bag, and I didn't).  

Also, I only used 1/2 of the normal recommended nitrites (per a recipe I got), and that may be why mine is darker colored than the butcher's, which is usually bright red.

I have ph strips, and I will definitely test both of these batches, as well as the ones that we buy in the store, and see what it says...

Also, do you think that drying it out at 46 - 48 degrees was too low, an maybe I should have done it at about 55-60 degrees?

The butcher's usually has a tougher outer casing and a softer, almost creamy interior..I'm thnking they keep the humidity pretty high for a while and then lower it towards the end so that the casing becomes drier and locks in the interior moisture.






Many thanks, Feral!

The preservation of these sausages and the prevention of pathogenic and/or spoilage bacteria on these sausages (like many others) are due to the following:
1. The inclusion of salt (reduces water activity of the meat making less moisture available to growing bacteria); however, the bacteria in your starter culture is a variety that can stand more salt than most pathogens.  Hence, the large amount of salt for bacteria specification, flavor, and reduction in water activity.
2.  Nitrate/nitrite: This provides the nice red/pink color but also is an antimicrobial toward most pathogens and spoilage bactera.  Your starter culture is also somewhat nitrite resistant so you wont' be harming them by using the standard amount of nitrite.
3.  Your starter culture is obviously a single strain bacteria designed to produce lactic acid as a byproduct of its metabolism and growth.  It's probably a strain of Lactobacillus plantarum or Pediococcus cerevisiae, two good lactic acid producers.  These bacteria must be allowed to grow and ferment any residual carbohydrate in the muscle tissue to lactic acid.  The build up of lactic acid reduces the pH to an acid condition which prevents most spoilage bacteria from growing.
4.  The drying process reduces the water activity leaving less moisture available for spoilage and pathogenic bacteria to grow.

Now to your questions.  Your salt should be about 3.5% in the final product.  In your mix before stuffing you have about 2.8%  As you dry the sausages, the salt concentrates with the moisture loss so it will naturally increase as a percentage of the final product.  I calculated with a 35% moisture loss, your salt will increase to about 4.3%, slightly too high.  You could back off to about 10g/lb and get a finished salt of about 3.4%  That will also make the final product taste slightly less salty

I'm concerned about your use of a long acting starter culture.  You need to develop the lactic acid in the first couple of days, not over months.  It's too late then.  I would pick a quicker acting culture and pay special attention that you don't get it too warm in the "waking up" stage.  Like yeast in bread, the "leavening" action can be killed by using too hot of water.  You need to develop the acid quickly to get the protection.  If you sausage is not as "tangy" as that you've bought, and your pH strips don't indicate proper acid development, you could use another culture next time.

Go back to using the full amount of nitrite/nitrate suggested.  This will improve color and protection against pathogens and spoilage bacteria.

Drying at your lower temperature is ok once your starter culture started to produce acid.  I believe your initial temperature was too low.  In commercial production, sausages are incubated at 35 to 38°C (95 to 100°F) for 24 hours to allow the starter culture to produce acid.  I'm not sure you have the capability to go that warm (requires controlled temperature and humidity, and a good track record of success) but you are probably incubating too cold to begin with.  Also, commercial production is done at incubation relative humidities around 85%.  Drying can occur at that relative humidity but it takes longer and produces more even distribution of moisture in the product – something you were looking for.  You could do as you suggest and leave the humidity high during the starter culture growth, and then reduce it some to aid in drying.

Well, I hope this helps.  

Yup!  I use a bottlecap from a bottle of water, but a coke bottle cap would also work.

Ziplock bag size doesn't matter much either.  I've gotten the same readings from a quart sized and a gallon sized.

Thanks again!  Your mentioning of the quick fermentation and the high temp of 95 - 100 degrees is definitely in line with Bactoferm F-RM-52, and originally I was going to use that strain, but then I found Bactoferm T-SPX, which is supposed to be for more traditional, longer drying time sausages.  I think it's a newer strain they have put it, and that needs about 48 hours at 68 - 73.  But I think I should have used more of it; I read in other places that if making less than 50 pounds, then use at least 1/2 of the package to ensure there is enough starter culture to get it going.  But I only used the amount per pound if making over 50 pounds, so that might have been a mistake...

I will definitely use more nitrite next time, which should keep the color a bolder red.  But that still leaves the issue of the fridge sucking out the humidity...hhmmm..I will have to think of what to do there.

Regardless, you've made some fine sausage there.  I would keep most of it in the refrigerator but leave a few links out to see what happens.  You'll know if they spoil.  If not, you're in the money.  If they do spoil, you've got the stuff in the fridge to consume.

Fermentations are one of the hardest things to master in the meat and cheese industry.  You've come 90% of the way there in one leap.  Good job and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Beautiful!  Would you experiment with seasonings or salt levels to get the more "authentic" store-sausage taste? I'm curious to how you plan to work on that and develop a broader palate on the final product.

Here in St. Louis we have Volpi that makes a variety of Italian cured sausages. I have little doubt I could match their tastes and variety on my first try. But I think it would be great to get started on this and see what I can do anyway.

I hope there is more forthcoming regarding sausages, and I eagerly await your prosciutto attempt.

Keep it up!

Gilt/Joe

Many thanks!  It sure took a lot of time to gather the info on the net and call people and read books and ask questions of my aunts/uncles/parents before I got the info I needed.  I thnk I should have just e-mailed you from the start! lolol






Around here in NY the plain taste reigns supreme; just salt & black pepper...the other popular one is hot, with red pepper and sometimes paprika.  Oh, and then there's sopressata, which is thicker, and has a similar but different taste...they add garlic and other spices...I wanted to make those too but they only sold the large casings in big batches and I didn't want to buy so many without being sure of what I was doing...

Awesome job Scrap! If you have a full kitchen in the basement, you MUST be Italian! That's how we grew up.

My grandfather made dried sausages and prosciutto nearly every year. I don't think he used any culture at all and he survived just fine to 92 years old. He did dry the sausages then store them in the fridge though.

Keep trying and have fun!

efxguy

For my third post in this thread, damn fine job!  Now take a little of that sausage and make an omelet...mmm.

Well done dir.  You took what you had to work with and made something most of us have only obtained via a grocer.

Hahaha, omg so true!  My parents halped me out HUGE with that...that's so how we roll!

My grandparents used to make it too, just before I can remember, and they are gone now, and my parents couldn't remember exactly how they made it...

Pix links are all fixed now

Bravo Man!

I have made a few fermented sausages successfully by working with my environment and timing the sausage to correspond with weather conditions for curing / aging. After having an entire batch of sausage (lots of hours of work, and $ in materials) I hung it up until I could build a proper environmental chamber. I have a humidistat, an ultrasonic humidifier, plenty brushless dc fans, etc. I also have a freezer that quit working that I think I can fix. Now I just need to prioritize the time to put it all together.

I am VERY glad to see another amateur getting in and getting dirty. The fact that the information needed to perform these sort of tasks is so hard to find is a testament to how few people are doing these things these days.

double tap, sorry.

Thanks. I just checked this out a week ago and was disappointed to see them down.


How is your prosciutto project? I didn't see a post about that. <hint hint>

Thanks guys...it definitely was not easy to find out the info, and if not for the internet and the books I found in the online stores I really doubt I would have been able to do this.

And the prosciutto, yeah man, I really need to get off my ass and do that!

I am doing a country ham, similar. Check out my thread

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=19&t=643486

I am sure you have already found them but check out these books

Garde Manger: by the culinary institute of America
and
charcutery

these 2 books give you pretty much everything you need to understand the concepts of meat curing and aging as well as a lot of specific procedures.

Have you found an actual recipe / procedure for prosciutto? I have not found a lot of information on it other tan a couple of ancient web sites with sketchy info. I am sure I could work something out but I do not have any information form anyone that has first hand experience.

Oh yeah, pretty sure that Charcuterie http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393058298/ref=oss_product   has a recipe for it...pretty simple one, too, all you need is salt and weight, I think.  Lemme know if you don't have the book, or if it's not in there...

Bumping again for possible updates.  Looks like the thread isn't going to the archive, but it should still get top of the list play from time to time anyway.

Is anyone else as excited as I am to see Michael Rhuleman is releasing another book "Salumi". Holy crap! A whole book dedicated to nothing but Italian dry cured meats!!! I don't know that I can wait until august for its release!!! I have already pre-orded my copy!

Salumi

Hmm this looks like it could end up being another expensive endeavor for me to get involved in...

For people wanting to try this .. Talk to older Italian folks in your neighborhood and read up on thew web. Ive never seen such an operation for making sopressata. Most folks I know who make it just hang it in their basement. They start it hanging in a warm area like near the furance and hot water heater then move it to the coolest corner of the basement and leave it there.

Untill its ready ....