From what I understand Botulism has no smell nor taste, so the sight and smell test would be invalid. Botulism is a horrible way to die, you are slowly paralyzed until you cannot breath and end up asphyxiating to death.

I am not an expert, but I am learning, hopefully if someone here knows more about this than myself they will speak up. My understanding is that the spores that generate the botulism toxin are either alive after the canning process or not, so if the food contained therein is good after a few weeks then it should be good for a long long time after that. It is also my understanding that these spores are there in the food we eat every day, but being as the food is not contained the botulism toxin cannot build up in significant enough quantitys that we ever even knew they where there, it is the fact that they are eating the food and excreting the botulism toxin in a contained environment that allows it to build up to toxic levels.

Here we go, straight from the CDC

What is botulism?

   Botulism is a rare but serious paralytic illness caused by a nerve toxin that is produced by the bacterium Clostridium botulinum. There are three main kinds of botulism. Foodborne botulism is caused by eating foods that contain the botulism toxin. Wound botulism is caused by toxin produced from a wound infected with Clostridium botulinum. Infant botulism is caused by consuming the spores of the botulinum bacteria, which then grow in the intestines and release toxin. All forms of botulism can be fatal and are considered medical emergencies. Foodborne botulism can be especially dangerous because many people can be poisoned by eating a contaminated food.


What kind of germ is Clostridium botulinum?

   Clostridium botulinum is the name of a group of bacteria commonly found in soil. These rod-shaped organisms grow best in low oxygen conditions. The bacteria form spores which allow them to survive in a dormant state until exposed to conditions that can support their growth. There are seven types of botulism toxin designated by the letters A through G; only types A, B, E and F cause illness in humans.

What are the symptoms of botulism?

   The classic symptoms of botulism include double vision, blurred vision, drooping eyelids, slurred speech, difficulty swallowing, dry mouth, and muscle weakness. Infants with botulism appear lethargic, feed poorly, are constipated, and have a weak cry and poor muscle tone. These are all symptoms of the muscle paralysis caused by the bacterial toxin. If untreated, these symptoms may progress to cause paralysis of the arms, legs, trunk and respiratory muscles. In foodborne botulism, symptoms generally begin 18 to 36 hours after eating a contaminated food, but they can occur as early as 6 hours or as late as 10 days.

How is botulism diagnosed?

   Physicians may consider the diagnosis if the patient's history and physical examination suggest botulism. However, these clues are usually not enough to allow a diagnosis of botulism. Other diseases such as Guillain-Barré syndrome, stroke, and myasthenia gravis can appear similar to botulism, and special tests may be needed to exclude these other conditions. These tests may include a brain scan, spinal fluid examination, nerve conduction test (electromyography, or EMG), and a tensilon test for myasthenia gravis. The most direct way to confirm the diagnosis is to demonstrate the botulinum toxin in the patient's serum or stool by injecting serum or stool into mice and looking for signs of botulism. The bacteria can also be isolated from the stool of persons with foodborne and infant botulism. These tests can be performed at some state health department laboratories and at CDC.

How can botulism be treated?

   The respiratory failure and paralysis that occur with severe botulism may require a patient to be on a breathing machine (ventilator) for weeks, plus intensive medical and nursing care. After several weeks, the paralysis slowly improves. If diagnosed early, foodborne and wound botulism can be treated with an equine antitoxin which blocks the action of toxin circulating in the blood. This can prevent patients from worsening, but recovery still takes many weeks. Physicians may try to remove contaminated food still in the gut by inducing vomiting or by using enemas. Wounds should be treated, usually surgically, to remove the source of the toxin-producing bacteria followed by administration of appropriate antibiotics. Good supportive care in a hospital is the mainstay of therapy for all forms of botulism. A human-derived antitoxin is used to treat cases of infant botulism and is available from the California Department of Public Health.

Are there complications from botulism?

   Botulism can result in death due to respiratory failure. However, in the past 50 years the proportion of patients with botulism who die has fallen from about 50% to 3-5%. A patient with severe botulism may require a breathing machine as well as intensive medical and nursing care for several months. Patients who survive an episode of botulism poisoning may have fatigue and shortness of breath for years and long-term therapy may be needed to aid recovery.

Can anyone advise about the shelf life of bottled water. It usually as an experation date on it but I've read that this is not because it expires but because the market needs to take it off the shelf by this date. Does anyone know if it expires. Thanks.

Google it.  FDA states that commercially bottled water should have an "indefinite" shelf life.  Obviously storage conditions are important.  Some have concerns about leeching of things from the plastic lining into the water, just as in canned food.  I'm gonna go with what the FDA says.  The government wouldn't lie to me

I found some cans that I stored in a rubbermaid container back in 1999.  The cans had ruptured.  There was about 3-4 inches of a black liquid with white mold growing on top.  The corn looked like green peas.

Do you think it is safe to eat?

i have heard that people in China eat rats , omg

I recently had a bad thing happen. I opened a can of yams and it was GROSS. It had nasty mold growing inside. I mean really mold stuff that would have killed a person. The expiration date was still good, it was recently put out. the can was in great shape, no dents, no bulges yet. It didn't make a hissing sound either, like bad food would have in this condition. I was amazed. It made me ILL to see this. I have it frozen in my freezer in a tightly sealed container. I should throw it away. I was going to bring it to  the attention of the company, but they will just ignore it. Having worked in a factory, I know this , that's what most do. Only the consumer never knows. Factory conditions are bad sometimes, unsafe. If you only knew what goes on in there, it would really make you sick.
I will NOT eat anything from that company anymore. If they did it once, it can happen again. They are slacking in their safety controls. That is one reason why many people are getting food poisoning more and more. They don't care how the food is really put up. I don't mean to scare you, but many employees do NOT care about their jobs, as far as quality of food goes. They are there to get a paycheck. I am not saying all employees do this, but some do. Enough to let some slide by and be packaged or canned.
I am working on growing my own food and canning or freezing as much as possible.
When you open  a can, PLEASE be sure to look and see if you see any mold. And don't eat it. The scary part is..... what if you CAN'T see the mold YET.........

We rotate our cans too and write the date purchased on it.
Be safe.

Thank you for the heads up. I have experienced your  #4.  ugh..... it was nasty mold that was canned bad in the factory. I was lucky to  "see " it.  It was  can can of Yams. Needless to say, I tossed them all. Quality control isn't what it used to be...

This is a good tip and works if you make sure it is all sealed. It is really great to do if you live close to salt water. We lived on our sailboat for quite awhile. Unfortunately I did not do this one time. I was amazed at how little time it does take for the cans to deteriorate. It doesn't take long at all!
After that I dipped mine.
Good tip to remember Bear, thanks for sharing!

Thank you for the information! We have a canner and a dehydrator. I was trying to figure out what method is best. I knew most about the seals, but didn't know that just handeling them and transportation could break a seal..

found a couple cans of corned mutton they arent expired anyone have a good idea for cooking? oh yea and spam fried up over rice, musabi or on toasted bread fried till the edges are dark brown and don't forget mayonnaise. hahaha damn spam is good

I just ate a can of sliced pears that were 3 years past expiration. They were perfect and very yummy!

In '91, I ate some sealed tinned crackers from the civil war era.



They weren't awesome by any standard, way too flowery and not enough salt for my taste. But they were edible and didn't cause any digestive problems.



Not bad for 130 year old crackers.

Here in KC we have a privately owned and operated museum featuring the steamboat Arabia, which sank into the muddy MO way back in the 1840's.  The .gov recovered a similar steamship up in Nebraska back in the 1970's, and tested some of the canned food found on board.  Didn't look or taste all that great, but had nearly 100% of its original nutritional value, and was perfectly safe.

Moral, if you bury your food it will last much longer.  Both of these ships were dug up in fields, over time and flooding, the course of the river changes, and the original location of the wreck will become a corn field, and the completely O2 free environment preserved the stuff on board amazingly well.  

And to all you SPAM haters, try the hickory flavor, or the bacon flavor.  Both are excellent.

Went out today and took a lot at my food preps. I have a significant stash of store bought canned food. It ranges from veggies to soups and everything in between. I had a few best by 2007 but most were 2008 or 09. I took one from each flat and cracked it open to check em out. All smelled good and look good. I have decided to wait another year before replacing.

I also have a large amount of home canned stuff but I am not too worried about it going bad. I was going to post about shelf life of store bought canned foods until I saw this thread.

More bang for the buck?
MRE's (no hassle) versus Canned goods (shorter shelf life, rotation and shelf space).

Bug in will contain several family members, and few like minders. Prepping for and maintaining a rotation that will fully consume canned goods and such could get expensive. MRE's and MRE food trays might be a better purchase... I think. Plan on having a little of both of course, but want to start building a good supply.

Talk me out of it or tell me right on.

I have not worked out the numbers, but I would be that MRE's are at least 5 times more expensive per calorie than canned food. MRE's are not good for you either. Canned food and staples are the way to go in my humble opinion. I love rice so I have more of than than anything.



The shelf life stamped on canned goods is no where near their actual life.





 

Had some canned chicken from 2008 that I found while moving around the storage shelves. Opened it up did the look & smell test...decided to take a small bite and it was GTG. Mixed some grapes, apple, celery and walnuts with a little mayo...and had myself some tasty chicken salad sandwiches Five days after and still kicking

In 1982, I ate a canned dessert cake from a C-Ration.

The can had "1959" stamped on it, which made it 23 years old when I ate it.

It was fine - actually tasted pretty good believe it or not.

When my pop was in the navy in 65-69 they served on the ship spam that was packed in the 1940s. He said it tasted as fresh as just bought off the shelf. The power of spam!

The wife wanted hamburger gravy over rice for dinner tonight. We always make the gravy with cream of mushroom soup. The only can of soup I had "best by" 10/30/09. I used it anyways. The can wasn't bulged or rusted any. When I opened it it was firm, not runny or soupy. It smelled OK too. So I cooked it up. It tasted a bit off but nothing a bit of Cholula and pepper couldn't cover.

Here it is 7 hours later and no sick or ill feelings. Not that I expected any.

I found a couple things in the cupboard over the refridgerator that I thought were newer.  I periodically go through and pull stuff gettting to it's use by and set them on the counter or on top of the refer to remind me to use them up very soon.

Spagetti sauce with a use by 12/2007 and peanut butter from the same time period.  They were both fine and I ate the sauce and am using the pb.  

Also found were 2 small cans of sweetened condensed milk behind some dry pasta.  One was use by 2007 and the other was 2009.  The 2007 can seemed to have the can lid not pulled down but closer to neutral.  I haven't opened it but suspect it's garbage.  I recall back as a kid when my mom kept stuff like the canned evap milk for her coffee that it would turn brown in the can if kept too long.

Last year, my wife was forced to use a bottle of pasta sauce that had expired in 1997. It was (surprisingly) just fine. Go figure.

I'm hopeful then after all this reading about the longevity of canned goods.  My storage area is about 65 degrees year round and closed off.  Plus, I have a de-humidifier in my prep room.  It's dark as well except when I turn on a light.  I'm hoping to get years and years out of my stuff.

Made tuna noodle hotdish last night with tuna that expired in 09/2009...tasted fine couldn't even tell anything different. On a interesting note though, apparently canned tuna was 6oz cans back then and now they are only 5oz cans...never noticed until last night.

I'm eating a can of chili with beans right now from the mid 90s.  It tastes off, maybe a little metallic, but other than tasting bad seems to be just fine.  As soon as I run out of tortilla chips though, I think I'm gonna dump the rest.

Here's a thread on another forum with some very interesting findings including govt. testing of 100 year old canned goods.  Shelf Life can goods

Wow. I voluntarily tear up some spam on a regular basis. I know it's not good for you, but no other complaints. It's kind of a treat, like corned beef hash or something else I love but try not to eat every day.

I'd like some clarification on this as well. It's got a good bit of fat so the answer might be significantly different from that of uncooked pasta. (ramen is precooked in oil)

found a can of hunt's tomatoes, buried behind some stuff in the pantry this week. the ''best before'' date was 5-07 , needless to say i opened the can and they were fine. we ate them all in some spaghetti 4-5 days ago, no after effects.

I've only eaten Ramen about 4 years out of date, and it tasted just as good as new Ramen.

Today we ate green beans from Kroger that were best by Nov. 2010.

Best by =/= Bad After

Opened a can of "Thank You" peach pie filling that was probably 15 years old (could not interpret the date-code).  It did not make the cut - peaches are not supposed to be dark brown.

I thought the following article from 5/2010 might be relevant to this discussion.

Study: BPA lining in canned goods contaminates food

Also Consumer Reports did some studies and found:

"The highest levels of BPA in our tests were found in the canned green beans and canned soup. In Progresso Vegetable Soup, the levels of BPA ranged from 67 to 134 ppb. In Campbell's Condensed Chicken Noodle Soup, the levels of BPA ranged from 54.5 to 102 ppb. Canned Del Monte Fresh Cut Green Beans Blue Lake had BPA levels ranging from 35.9 ppb to 191 ppb, the highest amount for a single sample in our test. Since we didn't test other canned green beans or soups, we don't know if this is typical of those products.

A 165-pound adult eating one serving of canned green beans from our sample, which averaged 123.5 ppb, could ingest about 0.2 micrograms of BPA per kilogram of body weight per day, about 80 times higher than our experts' recommended daily upper limit. And children eating multiple servings per day of canned foods with BPA levels comparable to the ones we found in some tested products could get a dose of BPA approaching levels that have caused adverse effects in several animal studies."

I tried to find something newer about this issue and couldn't.  I know if we are in a SHTF situation, we probably aren't that concerned about cancer.  But if we are going to be rotating and eating our preps until SHTF, then we should be concerned about it.

Do a Google search on BPA and canned food and you will see what I am talking about.

If you're an old f**t like me and remember C-Rations, then you've probably had Spam.  It was packaged as "Pork Patty."  Always was one of my favorites.  Didn't need cooking, easy to eat on the move, and had lots of salt.

Question: while canning tomatoes yesterday I forgot to add in lemon juice.  How badly will this affect shelf life?  I only did one quart and I pressure canned it so it got a good nuking.

There is no need for salt or acid with properly pressure canned food.

There is alot of good info on this thread but one thing that hasnt really been addressed so I need to ask:

In the terms storage of canned goods from heat can, higher heats = short shelf life. What is a good way to do this. Live in the lower desert. High heat low humidity. Currently my residence stays around 70 during summer and winter. But in a SHTF I wont have nice temp control. Hell when its atleast 100 and the air is of it gets on ton 80 plus. Any ideas?

Edit: Do not have a basement and most places here do not

Just ate a can of Campbells veggie soup 3 days ago that expired in 2003, so it's probably 12-15 years old.  Tasted OK, and I'm still here, no issues.

In addition to stocking canned goods and pasta I've got several 20 pound bags of Royal Brand Basmati rice.  It's packed in a sealed plastic bag and the plastic bag is insterted in a burlap sack with a zipper and carry handles.  And as far as I know white rice doesn't have an expiration date.  

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/royal-brand-basmati-rice-20-lb/112132666.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=112132666&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CISN4qysvbMCFQJx4Aodf1EAXw

Just ate a can of Campbells veggie soup 3 days ago that expired in 2003, so it's probably 12-15 years old. Tasted OK, and I'm still here, no issues.

ME TOO....I found three cans of campbells beef veggie from 2001.  Tasted fine except a little salty.  I'll try the next can in 4 years and so on.  Makes me feel better about prepping with some canned goods.  The can looked like brand new on the outside and inside since it was in our pantry.

see below.

Store it in AC under 70 then when it hits the fan you'll be fine. You'll use it up in a year and the higher temps won't matter fro that period of time. Ise a seperate room in my 40x50 garage for all the preps that has a small wall unit AC.

I recently cleaned out my Bug Out Bag (downsizing) and there were cans of tuna in it from 2005-ish.

I probably would have been ok with it, but my bag has been stored in my attic which gets crazy cold in the winter and probably over 100-110 degrees in the summer (guessing). So I think I made a good decision when I tossed them.

If/when I ever finish my basement I'll move everything down there. Right now I don't trust it because I don't have a dehumidifier and I see the occasional mold if we're getting a lot of water in the sump pump.

I eat expired food all the time, My girlfriend was in the garage organizing our shelves and every once in a while she would point out a can of expired food, she wanted to throw it away but I wouldn't let her, its still good.

Ty to give away any old canned supplies!! Donation depositories won't accept anything past the recommended "Use by Date", yet I eat it it all the time.

I just cracked open a can of low sodium minestrone, local grocery store label, "Wegmans."  Pull tab style top, best buy date was feb, 2011.  Smelled delicious, I'll let you know if it sends me to the emergency room.  

I've eaten plenty of canned goods post best by date. However, today I had a can of chunky clam chowder and by the end, it started to taste very strong and a bit off.

Can was fine, no dents or rust, smelled fine before and after warming up. It was only 3 months post best by date.

My question, should canned goods with dairy be treated differently than those without? For example, I've eaten chunky soup that was chicken noodle and tasted perfectly fine 1 year post best by date.

Not sure about dairy when canned but I seem to recall some advisories to throw out expired pancake mix because one of the dry ingredients wasn't really shelf stable.  It seems that it was some dairy related issue but I can't figure out why it was unique to pancake mix.