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Posted: 2/6/2015 11:57:33 AM EDT
i was looking for a few shovels, i really wanted the german push button style with the pick that locks in diffrent positions but everyplace ive found has them out of stock. i want to stay away from the trifolds, i never cared for the style.
any one here with ideas or what do you all have? |
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[#1]
I've got a green Wallyworld tri-fold. I think it is Ozark...could be coleman....and its junk. The metal washer that gets screwed down on into locking position bent from normal usage. And I can't get to it straighten it back out.
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[#2]
Quoted:
i was looking for a few shovels, i really wanted the german push button style with the pick that locks in diffrent positions but everyplace ive found has them out of stock. i want to stay away from the trifolds, i never cared for the style. any one here with ideas or what do you all have? View Quote I have the Texsport Deluxe Folding Shovel, I bought years ago, keep it under the seat of the truck. They sell them just about everywhere, Amazon, eBay, Bass Pro Shop, Sports Authority, Midway, Dick's Sporting goods etc. It works just fine, I tested it in the backyard when I first got to see how it would hold up, its good as new... |
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[#3]
doing some digging.... sorry had to... i found this one called the claw made by condor tool and knife, it looks pretty solid, and seems to be well liked, claw shovel looks like it acan be locked in a few diffrent places and they say it has a tough carbon steel head
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[#4]
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[#5]
View Quote I've got one of these, haven't put it through its paces, but seems very nice. |
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[#6]
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I've got one of these, haven't put it through its paces, but seems very nice. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I've got one of these, haven't put it through its paces, but seems very nice. I got one: Pros: Its light Dude, its a glock Cons: The head locking mechanism does not stay tight The telescoping handle mechanism is awkward to use If you use it in cold weather the mechanism will freeze and you can't collapse the handle. There is probably a better one out there for hard-use. |
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[#8]
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[#9]
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i really wanted the german push button style with the pick that locks in diffrent positions but everyplace ive found has them out of stock View Quote You can still find them on eBay. |
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[#10]
Quoted:
i was looking for a few shovels, i really wanted the german push button style with the pick that locks in diffrent positions but everyplace ive found has them out of stock. i want to stay away from the trifolds, i never cared for the style. any one here with ideas or what do you all have? View Quote This one? http://www.keepshooting.com/german-military-folding-shovel.html |
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[#11]
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I've got a green Wallyworld tri-fold. I think it is Ozark...could be coleman....and its junk. The metal washer that gets screwed down on into locking position bent from normal usage. And I can't get to it straighten it back out. View Quote I bought this one for my SHTF camping kit and for $14, the Ozark seemed to be reasonably made and sturdy, but I have never used it. Looks like the Glock ET might be the way to go? Chris |
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[#12]
I know its not a folder but I am a huge fan of the cold steel special forces shovel. I keep one in each vehicle.
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[#13]
View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
i was looking for a few shovels, i really wanted the german push button style with the pick that locks in diffrent positions but everyplace ive found has them out of stock. i want to stay away from the trifolds, i never cared for the style. any one here with ideas or what do you all have? This one? http://www.keepshooting.com/german-military-folding-shovel.html Yup but its out of stock everywhere |
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[#14]
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I know its not a folder but I am a huge fan of the cold steel special forces shovel. I keep one in each vehicle. View Quote I have this also. I keep in the my truck as well. It could be attached to a ruck but it would stand out unless the ruck is large enough. It has a small foot print over all. |
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[#15]
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I bought this one for my SHTF camping kit and for $14, the Ozark seemed to be reasonably made and sturdy, but I have never used it. View Quote not much of a recommendation. I would suggest this. there are a bunch of people on youtube who review things that they have actually used. most of the low end shovels they review have failed miserably at being an actual shovel. the ones that pop up as working pretty well are real military e-tools, schrade, glock, cold steel and a few others I cannot recall off hand. every other one I have seen reviewed where it was actually tested the cheap shovels failed. having said that, I don't see a folding shovel as being all that great a piece of kit in the first place for most people. But if I was going to get one, i would sure as heck take it out in the back yard and actually dig with it. |
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[#16]
Chris is one of the Battery/charger/flashlight gurus hereabouts, so no surprise he has not had time to test his shovel--he is too busy doing other things about which he posts often.
That said, if the Ozark Trails shovel turns out to be a good one, it will be the first Ozark Trails product that I've heard about that is. Local surplus store has scads of Bundeswehr single-fold wooden handle shovels, along with US and Bundeswehr tri-folds. I have used USGI WW II "T" handle shovels (standard and Airborne versions), USGI single-fold shovels (all variants from WW II to post Vietnam), USGI and Bundeswehr tri-folds, Gerber tri-fold, Glock field spade, and various ComBloc non-folder spades. Observations: 1) All of these shovels are meant to be used with the user basically on his knees. They're that short. Consider knee pads if a lot of digging is contemplated. 2) Whatever shovel you get, give serious consideration to a shovel carrier that will attach to the outside of your pack or belt. Shovels get filthy, and you don't want all that crap inside your pack. USGI MOLLE E-Tool carrier will fit all Tri-folds as well as the Glock. Single-folds can be problematic, but a carrier can be made out of Kydex, and probably a better one than the sometimes hard-to-find original carriers. Make it stout. 3) SOP for digging is to have one guy use his shovel as a pick (blade at 90 deg to the handle) to loosen the soil, and while he takes a break and pulls security, the other guy shovels out the soil. Any shovel that cannot act as a pick will have to be accompanied with a collapsible pick for efficient digging. 4) Condition is everything. The joints in surplus folding shovels are often found to be battered loose because the user(s) did not frequently check and re-tighten the locking nut on the shovel. If the head wobbles a lot, then it's worn. If buying used, then inspect in person, and buy the shovel with the least wobble. These loose joints can be repaired if not too badly worn, but it's a hassle. Wooden handles can be replaced, but once again, doing so involves removing the OEM rivet, a PITA. 5) If you want a short shovel--cheap--go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy one there. Collapsible GI picks turn up every now ant then, along with their carrier, which is very handy for stowage and carriage. 6) If at all possible, and weight and size constraints allow, consider some form of carefully chosen full-size digging implements. They are easier and more efficient to use. 7) Most folks can get away perfectly well with a small aluminum trowel. If a bit more digging is expected, then the Gerber Gorge shovel :http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-41578-Gorge-Folding-Shovel/dp/B000WZCSTO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423524782&sr=8-1&keywords=gerber+gorge+folding+shovel is almost ideal, and it will fit nicely into a USGI Canteen/Utility pouch. 8) If you need a snow shovel for your vehicle, AAA offers a decent collapsible unit, available cheaper elsewhere. 9) As with any tool, determine the task(s) to be accomplished. After applying dispassionate consideration, the right tool will soon become apparent. |
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[#17]
I have used a Hori-Hori knife and a Glock shovel for 25 years, both in the garden and the woods. The Glock is the only mil spec folding shovel my Ex didn't kill.
I keep a pair of anvil pruners, silky saw and the Hori hori in a sheath together. I can toss that and the Glock on an old uncle mikes belt I keep ready to go and sometimes I add a hatchet. A bonus is the Glock also has a saw blade in the handle. After that, you are talking real tools. |
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[#18]
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I have used a Hori-Hori knife and a Glock shovel for 25 years, both in the garden and the woods. The Glock is the only mil spec folding shovel my Ex didn't kill. I keep a pair of anvil pruners, silky saw and the Hori hori in a sheath together. I can toss that and the Glock on an old uncle mikes belt I keep ready to go and sometimes I add a hatchet. A bonus is the Glock also has a saw blade in the handle. After that, you are talking real tools. View Quote No offense, but I did not know the Glock shovel was commercially available 25 years ago. |
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[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have used a Hori-Hori knife and a Glock shovel for 25 years, both in the garden and the woods. The Glock is the only mil spec folding shovel my Ex didn't kill. I keep a pair of anvil pruners, silky saw and the Hori hori in a sheath together. I can toss that and the Glock on an old uncle mikes belt I keep ready to go and sometimes I add a hatchet. A bonus is the Glock also has a saw blade in the handle. After that, you are talking real tools. View Quote No offense, but I did not know the Glock shovel was commercially available 25 years ago. View Quote Ordinarily I would agree but I just found this on their website. Click on the year 1983. It says they began development of the shovel in '83 which means that it very well could have been available commercially 25 years ago (1990). I would not have guessed this. |
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[#20]
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not much of a recommendation. I would suggest this. there are a bunch of people on youtube who review things that they have actually used. most of the low end shovels they review have failed miserably at being an actual shovel. the ones that pop up as working pretty well are real military e-tools, schrade, glock, cold steel and a few others I cannot recall off hand. every other one I have seen reviewed where it was actually tested the cheap shovels failed. having said that, I don't see a folding shovel as being all that great a piece of kit in the first place for most people. But if I was going to get one, i would sure as heck take it out in the back yard and actually dig with it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I bought this one for my SHTF camping kit and for $14, the Ozark seemed to be reasonably made and sturdy, but I have never used it. I bought this one for my SHTF camping kit and for $14, the Ozark seemed to be reasonably made and sturdy, but I have never used it. Looks like the Glock ET might be the way to go? Chris not much of a recommendation. I would suggest this. there are a bunch of people on youtube who review things that they have actually used. most of the low end shovels they review have failed miserably at being an actual shovel. the ones that pop up as working pretty well are real military e-tools, schrade, glock, cold steel and a few others I cannot recall off hand. every other one I have seen reviewed where it was actually tested the cheap shovels failed. having said that, I don't see a folding shovel as being all that great a piece of kit in the first place for most people. But if I was going to get one, i would sure as heck take it out in the back yard and actually dig with it. Well, to be fair to myself, I never actually recommended it to anyone, I was just commenting to the fellow that I bought one and it 'seemed' to be sturdy enough, to my mind, but admittedly...sturdy is a relative term, no? It folds up small and fits into one of my outer medium ALICE pack pockets just fine and frankly, I didn't buy it thinking that I'd be digging my grave, or trenches for a building foundation, so what I intended it for--digging a small hole to take a dump in, or to dig a fire pit in some sandy type ground, it should be sufficient. Chris |
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[#21]
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I know its not a folder but I am a huge fan of the cold steel special forces shovel. I keep one in each vehicle. View Quote Same here, i saw this thread title and was going to suggest it as well. you can keep it in a sheath and strap it to your pack if you were so inclined. It doubles as a series hand to hand weapon as well if needed. plus, you dont have to worry about a broken locking mechanism, or a wobbly shovel. |
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[#22]
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Same here, i saw this thread title and was going to suggest it as well. you can keep it in a sheath and strap it to your pack if you were so inclined. It doubles as a series hand to hand weapon as well if needed. plus, you dont have to worry about a broken locking mechanism, or a wobbly shovel. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I know its not a folder but I am a huge fan of the cold steel special forces shovel. I keep one in each vehicle. Same here, i saw this thread title and was going to suggest it as well. you can keep it in a sheath and strap it to your pack if you were so inclined. It doubles as a series hand to hand weapon as well if needed. plus, you dont have to worry about a broken locking mechanism, or a wobbly shovel. If you are going to be doing any digging at all, in anything other than soft, rock-free sand or loam, then make sure to bring a pick. The Cold Steel shovel, like all similar ones, cannot be folded at 90 deg to become a half-decent pick, and the very blunt nose of the CS shovel is far from optimal in hard or rocky soils. Do some side-by-side comparisons of different styles of shovels in various soils, and I think you will agree with me. |
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[#23]
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If you are going to be doing any digging at all, in anything other than soft, rock-free sand or loam, then make sure to bring a pick. The SC steel shovel, like all similar ones, cannot be folded at 90 deg to become a half-decent pick, and the very blunt nose of the CS shovel is far from optimal in hard or rocky soils. Do some side-by-side comparisons of different styles of shovels in various soils, and I think you will agree with me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted:
I know its not a folder but I am a huge fan of the cold steel special forces shovel. I keep one in each vehicle. Same here, i saw this thread title and was going to suggest it as well. you can keep it in a sheath and strap it to your pack if you were so inclined. It doubles as a series hand to hand weapon as well if needed. plus, you dont have to worry about a broken locking mechanism, or a wobbly shovel. If you are going to be doing any digging at all, in anything other than soft, rock-free sand or loam, then make sure to bring a pick. The SC steel shovel, like all similar ones, cannot be folded at 90 deg to become a half-decent pick, and the very blunt nose of the CS shovel is far from optimal in hard or rocky soils. Do some side-by-side comparisons of different styles of shovels in various soils, and I think you will agree with me. Considering I have done some under foundation digging when working in excavation I would have to agree. The main purpose my shovels serve is for impromptu use and un-sticking a stuck vehicle be it snow or mud. It can also hack some branches if need be. No digging fox holes for me! |
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[#24]
There are inexpensive fixed, mini spade shovels sold at most department stores I would put up against any of the folding military E tools. They take up very little space in a vehicle. If you are taking an E tool on a Bug Out you might need to ask yourself why. The only reason that makes sense to me is a snow cave and there are very light weight shovels for that purpose.
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[#25]
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[#26]
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i was looking for a few shovels, i really wanted the german push button style with the pick that locks in diffrent positions but everyplace ive found has them out of stock. i want to stay away from the trifolds, i never cared for the style. any one here with ideas or what do you all have? This one? http://www.keepshooting.com/german-military-folding-shovel.html Yup but its out of stock everywhere I keep one in my truck, well made heavy as hell. If I had to walk it would be the first thing I left behind |
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[#27]
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Do you guys have anything against the classic GI E-Tool? You can find these surplus for not a whole lot of money. http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/z/jDUAAOxyZw5Rag6F/$T2eC16ZHJIIE9qTYLTMnBR,g6FV8Fw~~60_35.JPG?set_id=880000500F View Quote The first time you swing it as a pick, or put any torsion on it and the jam nut isn't perfectly tight, you're hosed. The jam nut will bend and lock in place, leaving you with a floppy shovel that doesn't work. |
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[#28]
i never cared for the jam nut style, the condor claw is the same style but its a nice heavy metal nut and washer. i used it thismoring to clear about a foot of hard packed icey snow out from behind my fiero to drive to work thismorning, it seamed to do ok at that
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[#30]
Quoted:
I've got one of these, haven't put it through its paces, but seems very nice. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I've got one of these, haven't put it through its paces, but seems very nice. I have one of those as well. Nice little E-tool. |
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[#32]
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[#33]
Quoted:
Chris is one of the Battery/charger/flashlight gurus hereabouts, so no surprise he has not had time to test his shovel--he is too busy doing other things about which he posts often. That said, if the Ozark Trails shovel turns out to be a good one, it will be the first Ozark Trails product that I've heard about that is. Local surplus store has scads of Bundeswehr single-fold wooden handle shovels, along with US and Bundeswehr tri-folds. I have used USGI WW II "T" handle shovels (standard and Airborne versions), USGI single-fold shovels (all variants from WW II to post Vietnam), USGI and Bundeswehr tri-folds, Gerber tri-fold, Glock field spade, and various ComBloc non-folder spades. Observations: 1) All of these shovels are meant to be used with the user basically on his knees. They're that short. Consider knee pads if a lot of digging is contemplated. 2) Whatever shovel you get, give serious consideration to a shovel carrier that will attach to the outside of your pack or belt. Shovels get filthy, and you don't want all that crap inside your pack. USGI MOLLE E-Tool carrier will fit all Tri-folds as well as the Glock. Single-folds can be problematic, but a carrier can be made out of Kydex, and probably a better one than the sometimes hard-to-find original carriers. Make it stout. 3) SOP for digging is to have one guy use his shovel as a pick (blade at 90 deg to the handle) to loosen the soil, and while he takes a break and pulls security, the other guy shovels out the soil. Any shovel that cannot act as a pick will have to be accompanied with a collapsible pick for efficient digging. 4) Condition is everything. The joints in surplus folding shovels are often found to be battered loose because the user(s) did not frequently check and re-tighten the locking nut on the shovel. If the head wobbles a lot, then it's worn. If buying used, then inspect in person, and buy the shovel with the least wobble. These loose joints can be repaired if not too badly worn, but it's a hassle. Wooden handles can be replaced, but once again, doing so involves removing the OEM rivet, a PITA. 5) If you want a short shovel--cheap--go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy one there. Collapsible GI picks turn up every now ant then, along with their carrier, which is very handy for stowage and carriage. 6) If at all possible, and weight and size constraints allow, consider some form of carefully chosen full-size digging implements. They are easier and more efficient to use. 7) Most folks can get away perfectly well with a small aluminum trowel. If a bit more digging is expected, then the Gerber Gorge shovel :http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-22-41578-Gorge-Folding-Shovel/dp/B000WZCSTO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423524782&sr=8-1&keywords=gerber+gorge+folding+shovel is almost ideal, and it will fit nicely into a USGI Canteen/Utility pouch. 8) If you need a snow shovel for your vehicle, AAA offers a decent collapsible unit, available cheaper elsewhere. 9) As with any tool, determine the task(s) to be accomplished. After applying dispassionate consideration, the right tool will soon become apparent. View Quote I have to agree. As someone that has done a fair amount of shoveling in my life, unless you are being shot at and need to keep a low profile, a full size shovel, or even a D handle shovel will work far better. You back will thank you. I'm also not humping a folding shovel anywhere on foot, unless it's a snow shovel for building a snow shelter. For freeing a vehicle high centered in snow, a long handled garden hoe works better than a shovel at clearing the snow from under the vehicle. |
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[#35]
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Ordinarily I would agree but I just found this on their website. Click on the year 1983. It says they began development of the shovel in '83 which means that it very well could have been available commercially 25 years ago (1990). I would not have guessed this. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I have used a Hori-Hori knife and a Glock shovel for 25 years, both in the garden and the woods. The Glock is the only mil spec folding shovel my Ex didn't kill. I keep a pair of anvil pruners, silky saw and the Hori hori in a sheath together. I can toss that and the Glock on an old uncle mikes belt I keep ready to go and sometimes I add a hatchet. A bonus is the Glock also has a saw blade in the handle. After that, you are talking real tools. No offense, but I did not know the Glock shovel was commercially available 25 years ago. Ordinarily I would agree but I just found this on their website. Click on the year 1983. It says they began development of the shovel in '83 which means that it very well could have been available commercially 25 years ago (1990). I would not have guessed this. No offense taken. If you kids don't challenge things how are you going to learn. I never knew about Hori-Hori knives either until I walked into a Bonsai Master's home in 89 with my Ex and he showed me one. I was 26 and he was 90. I had a fascination with a Bonsai going back to my youth and west coast years. It was the Bonsai stuff that led to my Ex killing the shit out of every mil surp shovel I owned or bought. I have always enjoyed landscaping and we added her hobby to the yard. A sporting goods chain was going out of business and I wanted a red dot for my rifled slug barrel (yes those both existed before 9/11/01 too) and there was the Glock shovel for $25, $5 more if you wanted the sheath. Within a few years I bought several Hori-Hori knives. One of those, a true pair of anvil pruners, a silky saw and a Glock shovel and you can accomplish a lot. I have never melted a Hori-hori in a fire or wished it was a bit heftier as it is carbon in steel, not aluminum. I use all of these around the property and camping. If I am going deep to work on duck blinds, ground blinds or clear trails I carry these. Even if I am running a chainsaw, these are nearby. If I am axle deep in a muddy bog or a frozen one with a couple feet of snow, these are not the tools. |
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[#36]
I once chipped ice with a boot knife to make two ruts down to the pavement so my rear wheels could get some traction. I was in college and had left all my gear the weekend before at my Dad's house because I was coming back the next weekend. A POS folding shovel or any other damn tool is better then a boot knife. WhT is better then using your knife to dig with? A Hori-Hori knife. Better yet, a glock shovel. Need extra traction like limbs under your tires, glock has a saw blade in the handle. Your mind and hands are more useful if they have tools. The tools work better if you know how to use them before you truly need them.
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[#37]
As posted before, a simple aluminum or heavy-duty plastic trowel is all the digging tool that most people will ever need. Perhaps something like this, with a hardened aluminum blade:[url]http://www.seatosummit.com/product/?item=Alloy Pocket Trowel&o1=0&o2=0&o3=197-40[url]. Other, even lighter all plastic examples abound, as well as lighter, examples using exotic metals.
However, some folks might want to construct fire pits, or trench around their tents, and so might need a bit more tool. The Gerber Gorge digging tool is ideal for this limited set of folks;[urlhttp://www.amazon.com/Military-MOLLE-Utility-Pocket-Coyote/dp/B00BJ4EH5K[/url]. As mentioned previously, when fully collapsed it will fit nicely into a USGI MOLLE Canteen/Utility pouch, so you can mount it on the outside of your pack so the inevitably attached dirt doesn't infiltrate the inside of your pack and its contents. USGI MOLLE e-tool carriers are fine for all GI trifolds, as well as the Gerber. Repairing GI (Bundeswehr and USGI) tri-folds can be done, but it is quite the PITA. As against that, the repair will last the lifetime of the tool, and can be re-done, if needed, with no great effort. I would rather buy a new Gerber tri-fold--which are quite good, BTW-- than go through the effort of repairing a worn/damaged tri-fold, but that is just me. FWIW, the same principles, tools, and materials can also be used to repair GI single-fold shovels as well. Some USGI single-fold shovels are legitimate collectors items, so it might make sense to sell off your collectible and buy something else. Unless you are in the infantry, and thus constrained by circumstances, using a GI shovel for any serious digging work means making things harder on yourself than need be. |
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[#38]
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I know its not a folder but I am a huge fan of the cold steel special forces shovel. I keep one in each vehicle. View Quote http://www.bigsupplyshop.com/Cold-Steel-Special-Forces-Shovel-92SF_p_3799.html# I have several of these, one in each vehicle and one tjatt fits nicely on my Eberlestock Battleship... |
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[#39]
I saw these online today. Never had any experience with them. Look versitile but heavy and a little pricey. Hi-Lift Handle-All: 4 Tools in 1 (HA-500) |
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[#41]
I would recommend anything with a all metal parts and a wood handle. A older style GI one or for example I use a WWII German one. There a little heavier but I use mine to cook on in times of need. Works well.
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[#42]
What do I have? About one or two of about everyone of them out there, I guess.
The most recently bought was a SOG Trifold for like $10. It was for my niece's car where the odds of it doing any real work or see hard use are about NIL and size is more critical. Its about the best of the little $10 tools but all of those little ones really fit into that category not for real heavy use. The one I pack in my truck is my Vietnam Era Military that and the German E tool, you could pretty much dig a house foundation if necessary. That being said, my favorite actually is a better midsize non-folding shovel I picked up at tractor supply or Lowes. I like that one better than my fullsize regular shovel. Shovels are a lot like guns. They all dig but they're really task specific to what you want to use them for. Like guns, you need one having more than one is not a bad idea. I guess my son as a little boy was digging with a folding shovel before he had a sandbox shovel. Tj |
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[#43]
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I would recommend anything with a all metal parts and a wood handle. A older style GI one or for example I use a WWII German one. There a little heavier but I use mine to cook on in times of need. Works well. View Quote No offense, but I think being exposed to high heat, such as flame, will anneal the blade, and so make it softer. |
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[#44]
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[#45]
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No offense, but I think being exposed to high heat, such as flame, will anneal the blade, and so make it softer. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I would recommend anything with a all metal parts and a wood handle. A older style GI one or for example I use a WWII German one. There a little heavier but I use mine to cook on in times of need. Works well. No offense, but I think being exposed to high heat, such as flame, will anneal the blade, and so make it softer. Absolutely correct, but you'd have to reach a temperature of over 1,000 degrees C/1800+ F or basically a dull red color. That's unlikely in a campfire which is why blacksmiths use charcoal and a bellows to create a furnace condition. Now that's steel. Make that an aluminum shovel and you can melt it in a campfire. It melts at 1,221 degrees F. To your point though, in annealing steel, it has to go from dull red to a slightly stabilize temperature then fast quench to retain its dead soft condition. What that means is if you go from red hot to slow cool, it actually doesn't get soft. It worse. The grains grow and it gets brittle hard. It can snap like a twig. To equate this to something us old school AR and M16 shooters can relate to, fire the gun too fast and too long the barrel gets red hot, it will first soften, the barrel bend, then get hard as it cools and we just ruined the barrel. IMHO, the worst thing we do by cooking on our shovels is we take off the paint and because they typically are not stainless, we create a major maintenance issue at best or a rusty shovel at worse. Also food contain acids and moisture which increases the whole corrosion thing. Now you want to talk catastrophic failure, stress corrosion cracking if worse than any of the conditions I just posted about. So yes, whole heartily not a good idea to cook on your steel shovel. Tj |
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[#46]
http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Special-Forces-Hardwood/dp/B0017UVEW0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1425955084&sr=8-2&keywords=cold+steel+spetsnaz+shovel
Although, I will admit, it is hard to get folded. |
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[#47]
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Absolutely correct, but you'd have to reach a temperature of over 1,000 degrees C/1800+ F or basically a dull red color. That's unlikely in a campfire which is why blacksmiths use charcoal and a bellows to create a furnace condition. Now that's steel. Make that an aluminum shovel and you can melt it in a campfire. It melts at 1,221 degrees F. To your point though, in annealing steel, it has to go from dull red to a slightly stabilize temperature then fast quench to retain its dead soft condition. What that means is if you go from red hot to slow cool, it actually doesn't get soft. It worse. The grains grow and it gets brittle hard. It can snap like a twig. To equate this to something us old school AR and M16 shooters can relate to, fire the gun too fast and too long the barrel gets red hot, it will first soften, the barrel bend, then get hard as it cools and we just ruined the barrel. IMHO, the worst thing we do by cooking on our shovels is we take off the paint and because they typically are not stainless, we create a major maintenance issue at best or a rusty shovel at worse. Also food contain acids and moisture which increases the whole corrosion thing. Now you want to talk catastrophic failure, stress corrosion cracking if worse than any of the conditions I just posted about. So yes, whole heartily not a good idea to cook on your steel shovel. Tj View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I would recommend anything with a all metal parts and a wood handle. A older style GI one or for example I use a WWII German one. There a little heavier but I use mine to cook on in times of need. Works well. No offense, but I think being exposed to high heat, such as flame, will anneal the blade, and so make it softer. Absolutely correct, but you'd have to reach a temperature of over 1,000 degrees C/1800+ F or basically a dull red color. That's unlikely in a campfire which is why blacksmiths use charcoal and a bellows to create a furnace condition. Now that's steel. Make that an aluminum shovel and you can melt it in a campfire. It melts at 1,221 degrees F. To your point though, in annealing steel, it has to go from dull red to a slightly stabilize temperature then fast quench to retain its dead soft condition. What that means is if you go from red hot to slow cool, it actually doesn't get soft. It worse. The grains grow and it gets brittle hard. It can snap like a twig. To equate this to something us old school AR and M16 shooters can relate to, fire the gun too fast and too long the barrel gets red hot, it will first soften, the barrel bend, then get hard as it cools and we just ruined the barrel. IMHO, the worst thing we do by cooking on our shovels is we take off the paint and because they typically are not stainless, we create a major maintenance issue at best or a rusty shovel at worse. Also food contain acids and moisture which increases the whole corrosion thing. Now you want to talk catastrophic failure, stress corrosion cracking if worse than any of the conditions I just posted about. So yes, whole heartily not a good idea to cook on your steel shovel. Tj You explained it far better than I did. I stand corrected. |
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