Interested in gas masks for my family.  Concerns are pandemic and nuclear protection.

I want something I could fight with, thus the interest in the military ones listed in the thread title.  I'm also a big guy 6'4", with a correspondingly large melon!! The only large I'm able to find on the web is the M45, without spending megabucks on an M50.

I would also appreciate suggestions for the GF and daughter (6yrs old).

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

TAG for responses sorry I don't have one...

Good luck finding the M50 and the proprietary filter.

So, is the M45 my only hope?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Strong advice is to forget entirely the military masks, disabuse yourself of whatever mystique or mythology you might have.

Get a quality industrial respirator and good quality filters for it.

Pandemic or nuclear protection are both particulate hazards, so would recommend a supply of P100/HEPA type particulate only filters.  Particulate only filters typically don't have a fixed shelf life or service life in use, and are much lower restriction so are easier to breathe through.  Also for a nuclear hazard, you would probably be disposing of a lot of filters as you wouldn't want to bring the radioactive material in to your shelter location in the filters.  I would imagine you would want some multigas combination cartridges though to deal with any chemical hazards that might arise.

The brands I have had the best results with are Scott Safety (formerly Kemira) and MSA.  There are many other good brands though.

For a full face mask my hands down favorite is the Scott ProMask40... now called the M120 I think.

THIS. IDK why people are so obsessed with used or left over .mil items. as for any "pandemic" threat, a standard N95 mask is more than enough. they are cheap and available at most home supply stores.

I posted a topic about this a while back. let me look for it it may help you

One of the others I was interested in was the SGE 400/3 BB.

Seems similar to the Scott ProMask.

3m full face mask with the 40mm threaded ports and the boyonet lugs will allow you to use the military filters and the off the shelf (at HD or lowes) filters (P100 & multi gas)

I had to pick and purchase one for work and I settled on the 7800 mask cause it will do everything  except allow me to drink with it on and it was reasonable in cost.

THIS!!!



A 3M M6000 off Amazon is $100. Full face, NEW (and always buy new because are you really going to trust the seal on a surplus mask?), takes 40mm filters so you can screw in everything from an NBC down to just a cheapo p100 filter and it has right and left side filter attachments to allow for shouldering a rifle.



Amazon search "m6000 3m".

have you ever worn a m50 there not that great, yes they work, but i dont know how long i would want to wear it the cost is very high and just forget sighting in on a rifle that shit aint happening a respirator is probably your best bet

How is the comfort of the M50 compared to the M40?

I have an M40 but I happened to be the NBC guy for our squad and know what to look for when buying surplus.   It was near new when I bought it anyways.   They are a great mask especially if you can get a great condition one for $50-$60.

I got the Nato Gas Mask with nag and extra Drager filter from Centerfire for 50 bucks. Not sure on the date but I think it was 07. BTW its Romanian

I am issued an M50 and I have used it a few times in training. The mask is very light and has a great field of view and isn't quite as off balanced as an M40. However it is harder to clear (the ridges on the outlet valve make it hard to seal your palm against it and the curve on the canisters work against you as well) and without the support of the USGI supply system I suspect the mask and its uncommon filters would break the bank.

What about the M45??  Does anyone have any experience with them?  They seem very similar to the M40?

M45 Mask Link

Why would you even want those at that price?  The visibility on those eyepieces probably is the suck.

If you're not going to consider something outside of military issue/military surplus, just say so.

If you're dead set on a "military" mask, I'd suggest getting a brand new production 3m M40 instead of taking a chance with anything surplus.

I don't know who told you that a N95 mash was enough to protect you from a Bio threat, especially a viral one, but they are dead wrong.   All a N95 mask does is keep an infected wearer from spreading as much aerosolized infectious material.  

Don't believe me?  Ask the CDC what their PPE policies are for working with highly infectious lethal pathogens.  I guarantee you an N-95 mask ain't it.

i take it you have never seen any of my post and dont know what i do for a living. a N95 mask will protect you against 95% of anything that is going to kill you. which, by the way, is why it is called N95, get it? as for the CDC, do you really think in your every day travels that you will run into the "bugs" they deal with? if you do then you should ease up on the tin foil. you really should do your homework if you are going to call someone out when you have no clue of there background.

a little info for you.




SO, please tell me again just whom is "dead wrong"?

i was thinking of getting some gas masks, then i realized, without a stockpile of canisters, decon kits/wipes, and without suits or decon areas, its pointless.

Hey Gamma,

I'm not dead set on a military mask, but I do lean toward them.  As I said, I'm looking for something I'd be able to fight with if I needed to, and while there are some civilian ones with side mounted filters, in my total lack of experience with gas masks, I assumed that a mask used by the military would have all this figured out for me.

I do like the idea of not spending $500 on it too, but price is less of an issue for me than performance is.  

In true ARFCOM fashion, I'm now leaning toward getting either the 3M mask you suggested (or the SGE one), AND a military style one as well.  This lets me try both and have a few spares.

The reason I asked about the M45 is because I have a big melon and it is available in large.  As is the SGE civilian mask I also linked.  I would still REALLY appreciate any feedback anyone has on the M45.  Unless someone has a source for a LARGE M40 in good shape or new, it appears to be the only one readily available in large.

Lastly, I also noticed that BOTH the SGE and the M40/M45 are available in either Butyl or with a Butyl 2nd skin, which I guess is prefferable.  Not that I expect to survive a mustard gas attack, but again, better to have and not need.

I didn't suggest the 3m 7800, I find them to be heavy, not fit very well (on me anyway, they all run small), and are just not set up correctly for single filter use.  What I did suggest was the Scott Promask 40/M120 type; the M95/M110 type is more "military" in appearance with dual lenses but otherwise similar.  I had a hard time finding masks large enough to fit and the Scott M/L size fits me perfectly.

Another commercially available option would be an MSA Millenium or Advantage 1000 mask, these are both the same basic design as the MCU-2A/P which is used by the AF, FBI and some other folks.  The Millenium uses 40mm threaded filters and the A1000 uses a bayonet mount dual filter.  The medium size on these is a little small on me but is usable, the large size fits ok and is almost too large.  The downside to these for me is the rubber compound MSA uses has a pretty strong odor.  They have some newer design Advantage 3000 and 4000 masks which use a different material.  The M40 is similar to the Millenium/Advantage1000/MCU-2A/P design with the same fit and many parts are the same.

IF you demand a "military" mask, what I would strongly suggest is ordering a brand new 3m made M40 mask.  You need to stop shopping on military surplus etc websites and instead look at safety equipment retailers and fire dept supply places. Order brand new and order whatever size you need. "CBRN" is the new certification for "first responder" respiratory protection stuff that can handle almost any hazard, although that means a large and heavy filter element.  Plus, costly certifications means costs passed along to the buyer.  The masks are the same, just the filters are different... in the US regulatory system though, the mask and filter have to be certified together as a unit - if you don't need the certification tag, it doesn't matter.  As I mentioned before I would stock up on some non-chemical particulate filters as they are better for the hazards you mentioned, along with some multi gas or CBRN rated combination cartridges to handle chemical hazards.

If permeability of a silicone mask to a few chemicals becomes a problem, I don't think it will be a problem as you've already been in that area too long to begin with and without full body protection you're toast anyway - if you're in a mustard gas cloud that's intense enough for long enough to worry about permeation of a silicone mask.

As far as fighting in a mask, best advice I can give you is practice your handgun shooting and work on the SAS sling technique with a carbine and a red dot sight.  Just because it's a military mask doesn't mean much when it comes to trying to shoulder a rifle, and as you can see the newest generation military masks are abandoning the dual lens designs in favor of larger single lenses for better visibility, and mostly changing to dual filter elements.

Tag for later reading.

^ This and add knowledge & decon partner.

Can you drink from a canteen with a civ mask?

No non-military mask has a drinking device, none would pass the safety testing with them.  Drinking devices are a huge additional risk for leaks, and to try to drink out of one in a truly dangerous environment would just get you a mouthful of whatever toxic agent is in the atmosphere.

I believe the M50 is controlled but you can get the civilianized FM50.
http://www.topnotchtactical.com/content-product_info/product_id-3071/avon_fm50_mask_system.html

I was wanting that as well, but came to realize:  As a civilian, if you have to wear a gas mask AND fire a rifle, you're probably already in over your head.

Military gas mask are made primarily for chemical attacks nerve agent, blister agent, blood agent, and irritants such as CS.

They do work for biological and protection from inhaling fallout but as been stated a Medical mask will work just as well from breathing in biological and fallout particles.

All to true, the reason military mask have them is that dehydration from long periods in a chemical environment is a bigger threat.

I have a millenium and a low bidder tyvek suit issued for "response" at work and I've done a few few deployments in the mil. The concept sounds nice, but "training" is required if you expect anyone to actually function while suited up.

Anything tyvek sucks. The thing is a plastic nightmare and builds up heat very rapidly....it doesn't breath at all. I've worn the old mil "charcoal" suit and the newer j-list...get the j-list.

I'm partial to the m-40....haven't seen many others, but it did the job. I have jogged & slept with it on. You can drink while wearing, it cheap on the surplus market, comes in many sizes, and you can get repair parts if you have friends in the mil. You may have to convert an aviators mask someone needs an extra small version though.

Under what likely scenario would a civilian need a gas mask and chem suit? Why not an el cheapo respirator from Home Depot, and a box of N95 masks? A contaminated environment is extremely hard to operate in, your best bet is to run like hell.

besides my NIW 3m m40's i have.. i have a 7800. but its a back up. I keep debating to sell it or not.

but i kept it for the reasons you mentioned above since i have some 1/2 mask that use PN100 filters already in my kits.



 

Nuke plant within 20 miles and RR lines...the rest is just fantasy to keep me entertained. If you have anything from Mount Saint Helens to an overturned amonia tanker, you're gonna want your eyes covered.  

This is the point that I try to get across in all the "gas mask" threads in regards to chemical hazards in particular.  Which is, that having a mask is better than not having a mask while you are G-T-F-O.  If you're in a chemical hazard area for long enough for a drinking device to be an issue, you're really doing it wrong.  If you're in a mustard gas (yeah right) environment for long enough for permeation of a silicone mask to be a problem, you're really doing it wrong.  If you're in a hazard area for long enough for... well, you get the idea.  The usefulness of having a mask is so that if there's a train derailment that dumps a couple of cars of chlorine gas into your suburb (or office, or farm for that matter), that you can G-T-F-O and have your eyes and lungs still intact and functional for the rest of your life.  If you have some fantastic vision of sheltering in place and surviving in a long term chemical warfare environment or anything close to that, you're in a different universe from "what gas mask should I buy".

Some sort of pandemic or a radiological/nuclear situation can also make use of a good mask but as mentioned you'll need attention to detail (depending on the threat) for the rest of your wardrobe to really get protection, plus decon ability as well as some kind of safe area that you can live in safely.

There are good uses for a mask to deal with everyday hazards as well - painting, various kinds of construction/woodworking/shop hazards, insecticide/herbicide application, dealing with farm chemicals and ammonia, etc.  Full face respirator is really a lot more comfortable, and a lot easier to keep defogged, than trying to use a dust mask or half mask respirator along with safety goggles or glasses.

i know of no one that has been infected through there eyes with any air born illness. as with anything, testing with said mask and getting taught how to use and test fitted is key. while we dont get test fitted every year we do do it every couple of years. it involves a N95 mask and a "hood" that gets a scented liquid "sprayed" into the hood and if you can smell/taste it you havent fitted your mask correctly. we refit the mask till you dont taste/smell the spray. it isnt that hard to get a good seal on a N95 mask.

AV-3000 is the way to go.  I wouldnt let the drinking tube be a factor in my purchase, any domestic threat that you cant run away from will must likely be OC or CS, which isnt an issue to break the seal, pop a bottle or canteen open, drink to your hearts content, and reseal/clear the mask.

Something like this?

I bought one of these a few years ago:  http://bugoutbags.bigcartel.com/product/s-e-a-scott-full-face-gas-mask-respirator

Any good?

I bought it on a special for $25, but am curious what some of your more knowledgeable people think of it's uses & effectiveness.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-

Nuclear / Biological / Chemical Protection

Retail Value: Approx. $275!

The S.E.A. / Scott full face mask is a panorama full view mask. It is designed to protect the respiratory system and face against hazardous gases and particles and to maintain a wide field of vision. The mask is used as a filtering device together with gas, particle or combined filters (threaded filters) as well as with portable and hose fitted supplied air constructions. The mask has a speech diaphragm made of plastic film with minimal sound absorption.

The S.E.A. Domestic Preparedness NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) filter can be used against particles, dust, smoke, fume, bacteria, viruses, biological warfare agents, and a wide range of organic, inorganic and acid gases and ammonia.

- Full face respirator mask
- NBC Filter Canister
- Five pre-filters and pre-filter cap
- Sundstrom carry case
- User manuals

Protect yourself against;

sarin, nerve gas, mustard gas, cyanogen, phosgene, radioactive dust, toxic particles, aerosols, tear gas, bacteria, viruses, anthrax, smallpox etc. — Also provides protection against industrial gases such as ammonia, hydrogen cyanide, acid gases, chlorine, sulfur dioxide, hydrogen chloride and many more

you misunderstood what i was saying. i didnt say it couldnt happen i just said i have never heard of it happening. as for the test fitting, its done so you know how to fit the mask properly the first time.

http://youtu.be/eVgXTXKc5A8

The information you guys have provided is excellent thus far, especially Gamma.

My intent for the purchase of gas masks for the family has always been for the purposes of GTFO to a bug out location.

Threats have always included a nearby nuke power plant, chem tanker and rail lines.

The idea of something to be able to fight in revolves around the concern that i don't know the nature of the evac, nor the possibility of violence during it.

Ultimately, after much research and advice from you folks here that are knowledgeable, I think Im going to end up with an Israeli children's mask for my daughter, the Scott mask recommended by Gamma for my GF and a NIB 3M CBRN M40 size large for myself.  Along with a stock of filters to get me far from the reason i would employ them.

Additionally, as funds provide im thinking of chem suits, but in the meantime we'll get some tyvek jumpsuits as they are cheap enough.

I think we sometimes spend far too much time on there boards trying to prove how smart we are by trying to convince someone asking an opinion of something, how they are wrong in their perceived need of whatever it is we're asking about.  Its great to see the posts that actually provide great info on what's actually involved with a given challenge, rather than simply discounting the need the OP is asking about.

That said, does anyone have a good resource for proper use and periodical training on CBRN gear?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Army common task manual (SMCT) ...haven't seen a paper version of the old NBC manual in a while, but you can hit the surplus stores for both. You may even find some decon pads/wipes if you make friends. Most is avail through a google search.

Going out on a limb: There will be no chem/bio issues. If there are (civ shtf w/sarin, tabun, GB, etc), you will be toast in 60 seconds! No NAK, no buddy, no suit, no spare suits, decon team/tent, no evac.....drt=dead right there. You will not be walking around in mopp prior to....and if you are, you have screwed up.

edit: addressing conventional nerve agent, not bird flu

If you have a safety supply store near you they may do fit tests with your mask. That will let you know how it's done and you can get the stuff to check you family fit at home periodically.

Just a starter.

One more data point for you. I went with the following mask and filters. It was expensive but I feel pretty confident (nothing is certain) that I can escape just about anything that comes my way. This mask and four filters travel in a dedicated bag in my vehicle so that if something happens while at home or work I have it close. Again, more than most people are willing to spend...