No way in hell a thin plastic bottle DESIGNED to biodegrade in a relatively short period of time is going to stand up anywhere near a quality mylar liner sealed well inside a 5 gallon bucket.

This came about with the advent of the new "preppers" some of whom don't ever REALLY THINK they will actually need their food storage and therefore looked to cut corners (in the wrong places) to try to save a dime.

Stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime.

DIY food storage basics

Soda bottles don't biodegrade?

Well crap, why then when you try to store  2 liter bottles of soda for a while do you usually find that a good portion of them have gone "flat?"

It is not a viable oxygen barrier for the LONG TERM. Keep in mind I'm not talking about six months or a year.

Do whatever the hell you want, if you want to cut corners on something that YOUR LIFE MAY DEPEND ON one day, go right ahead. For the MINIMAL EXPENSE involved in packing correctly for the long term, it's stupid to even consider pop bottles and misc. BS.

Always a good idea for LTS to get items out of their original packaging- cardboard, paper, thin plastic, etc. before putting them away for LTS.

I remember looking at some guy's pinto beans that he put in a bucket in the original plastic baggies.  It was beans and plastic goo all stuck together.

Bay leaves are an old wife's tale. They definitely don't HURT anything, but they aren't the placebo many think they are.

I put pics up on Frugals years ago of cornmeal from the 90's that was packed with bay leaves. Weevils were teaming in the bucket and riding on the bay leaves like they were the Weevil Love Boat.  So the "they keep weevils from your food" thing is utter BS.

Ain't a lot I haven't tried in 30+ years of storing food.

Not quite sure where you are getting the "soda bottles don't biodegrade" thing. So how does water leak out of a 2 liter soda bottle in storage just sitting there over time? Not sure if you've noticed, but the 2 liter soda bottles are not made as thick or as rigid as they were in the 90's.

The eco nazis would have a tizz fit if a very commonly thrown away item like that "never biodegraded."

Yes of course soda bottles are NOT a quality long term oxygen barrier, at least we agree on that. And OXIDATION being the #1 long term enemy of food storage, I don't think cutting corners on that part of the protection is wise.



Here's a question for you, if Mt. House claims 7 years on pouches, but 30 years on #10 cans with the SAME FOOD being used in the different packing containers, why do you suppose that is???? It's the same food just in different PACKAGING.  You suppose maybe the PACKAGING has something to do with it????

You've never seen a plastic container break down? Really? So UV, heat, none of these things affect plastic? My point was the thinner plastics will break down quicker. Hell a quality 5 gallon bucket will break down over time with UV light, heat, etc.

Not every storage condition is ideal, either now or possibly in the future when you consider bugging out, etc. To begin the journey with some half arse container and expect it to make it the whole way isn't realistic.

Like I said previously, people can do whatever TH they want when it comes to this, if you think it's smart to throw "lime", "little bags of rice sewn up" or "handwarmers" to use as oxygen absorbers (yes these are actual online quote from someone), or if you think mylar party balloon, chip bags, etc. are feasible to use for storage go right ahead! It's not my family that's going to starve with dumb ideas!

All to do what- save PERHAPS $2. on a quality mylar liner and oxygen absorber.

Once people get some long term experience in food storage, you'll be able to look back and see that rice for example, used to be able to be had for $15. per 100 lbs. back in the late 80's and early 90's. Now it's what, $17. per 50 lbs. effectively doubled and then some in price. So your not just protecting your $17. investment when you put up 50 lbs. of rice, your possibly protecting your $30. investment.

Of course if you ever have to relay on it for real, the "value" of it will far exceed anything you spent now. So you "need" it cause SHTF and you open your little 2 liter bottle and find that it actually wasn't a viable long term oxygen barrier and now nutritional value is compromised. All because you thought that not spending $2. on mylar and oxygen absorbers was a good financial move.

And what is really the costs in storing food correctly in buckets and mylar liners?

OK let's look at this.

Buckets you can sometimes get FREE if you ask around. Maybe you have to pay $1. for a pickle bucket at Firehouse Subs. $1. for a container that will hold 40-50 lbs. of product.

Mylar liner- $1.50 or so?
Oxygen absorber- depends on size of CC absorption, etc. cheap either way.

So you pack correctly and some time passes and you rotate that bucket. What is "lost?" JUST THE OXYGEN ABSORBER. I have re-used mylar liners and if you don't slice and dice them like cutting off the excess before sealing the bucket (dumb idea), you can re-use mylar many times over. Bucket- that's reusable also.

So your "out" the whooping expense of just the oxygen absorber, perhaps $.50 true long term costs of storing 40-50 lbs. of food correctly.

But damn, that fifty cent expense makes people want to cut corners and put "sheetrock dust" in with some rice in a "chip bag" and think they are gtg.... Come on.

So are people not buying AMMO CANS now also for their ammo? Just leaving cardboard boxes of ammo laying about on the ground? So you'll spend maybe $10. on an ammo can to protect your ammo but you won't spend $.50 to protect your food storage?

Oh boy......

Well smarty pants, if you want to get technical, couldn't some plastics nerd design a soda bottle that could last until infinity? Probably, but the enviro-nazis and eco freaks would crucify him.

Last I checked, we live in a consumption type economy. Could LG build a TV that could last 40 years? Yes they probably could but DO they? No, cause they want you to have to buy a damn new one every 5 or 10 years.



There is a pic of bay leaves in action deterring bugs....  Notice the holes in the grains of wheat.

I think this has been covered more than necessary during your  "civil" questioning :)

So we both agree that plastics degrade, OK that's enough for me.

Are you still being civil?

And it's obviously you......



So to end the thread stalking your doing (while being "civil" of course), would it be better if I said you were somehow right?

Like I said before, GO FOR IT! Store your food in whatever TF you want to store it in- I don't have to eat it!! And I've seen, over 31 flipping years now storing and rotating how food does when it's packed correctly and how food has done packed half ass. So go for it!

So you beat that two ways-

1. Buy your rice from a big store with a high turnover. Example- a bigger Sam's club may have only had that pallet of rice out for a day. However Bubba's Gas and Sip may have had a bag of rice sitting on their shelf for six months by the time you purchase it.  

2. Make sure you have all your packing materials for a large run FIRST, then pickup your grains around the time you intend to pack them.

Also, packing correctly with mylar and oxygen absorbers should help this as well. As a family we've rotated thousands of lbs. of grains over three decades. I've never seen a bug problem in a bucket that was packed with mylar and oxygen absorbers. I have seen bug problems in lesser packing materials to include buckets with bay leaves added- as shown in the pic I posted in this thread.

There was a really, really analytical guy on another forum that was going to pack some food. Asked a boatload of questions over thinking the process X10. Like a lot of people he was trying to re-invent the wheel instead of using tried and proven methods that work,  are cheap and all the professionals use. I ran into him at a gathering and I asked him how it was going in that regards. He told me he had a 10x20 rental storage unit filled with grains. So I asked how the packing went, it's pretty easy isn't it? He replied that he hadn't packed anything yet, still was "researching" and shopping around for mylar, o2 absorbers and trying to find cheap buckets. I asked how long the grains had been in the storage center- "About six months now"- in the summer in Florida. I told him he did everything in reverse and would need to seriously check for bug infestations.   Having ran a commercial cannery for a couple years in Florida in the 90's I knew you could not let grains sit around very long unpacked, even in climate controlled environments.

He lost probably several tons of grains because of it.