Not even close to GD standards. You know that.

I agree there is no do all.one stop answer.

I'm posting from my phone and I do at times come off blunt/short on my replies. Because peck typing and autocorrect is bullshit.
That and honestly..to many """preppers""" cry
" we can't because...insert xyz excuse" ..annoys me when it is possible IF they want it.

As anything we prep for its a balance. Moving to a cabin 200 miles from a road isn't the answer nor is 5 minutes outside detriot..
The important thing is that once you recognize the short comings of your current area you should (if your willing) make the nessary changes to get out.


Hope that came off a lil less jaded in tone.

Vacuous  premises yield puerile responses...

No offence taken. I just wish the survival forum we go back to more of being a discussion forum vs a if you don't do it my way you are an idiot forum. As As ARFCOM has grown, the SF seems to have headed down that road more.

This is always a difficult discussion and the spectrum is pretty varied.  Being Active Duty Army for the past 26 years has made relocating quite challenging at times.  Not every location was "ideal" and options were limited; we prioritized a safe neighborhood and quality schools.  As mentioned, job, family ties, schools...a lot of factors affect priorities.  The honest thing to address is that most who are serious do want to find that ideal location and it may take 10, 15 or 20 years to work towards it.  Preparation is a lifelong lifestyle and even ideal locations now are not guaranteed ideal over the course of time unless you're able to purchase enough land as a buffer.

The key is to be honest and realistic with your current situation; suburbia is convenient but far from the most idea location.

ROCK6

No new blood. 
I've been here what 10+ years. My interest and preps are totally different now.
There was more excitement back then. Coc was not as strict then.
Now we have echo chambers due to the ignore button and the same folks posting...and topics that aren't sexy. Like this one. It makes people think.
Post up a thread about retreat security and how to gear up for  patrols/secuirty and it'll go
Sideways(in true gd fashion )or be ignored.

The prepper fad has faded. On top of it. Arfcom is a gun board 1st. Add to it the different sub forums.

Until we get a big rush of new folks it'll be the same Ole same Ole.

Personally I think debate is good as long as emotion doesn't rule it. Gotta stay open minded imho.

You will always be "the outsider" in a small town or rural setting unless you are from there. You will be the first person close to them to steal food, ammo and guns if they know you have them.

That's just it.  Most people are living a life just trying to get by.  They can be chasing money or not but most are just raising kids, paying a mortgage, dealing with elderly parents, etc.  

Moving to the ideal bug out location might be ideal yet isn't realistic for most people for the reasons stated above.  If your think about it, how many "survivalists" moved to the boonies in the 70's (Mel Tappon), 80's, 90's (Y2K), 20's, and beyond and yet the world kept turning.  Is being prepared your Number 1 goal in life?

Being prepared is a lifestyle, however unless it is your Number 1 priority in life it cannot be the end all be all direction path of your life.  For those that choose to be the ultra prepared -- God bless -- maybe one day it will pay off.  Or not.  No one knows the future.  Hell, I myself have thought the balloon might be going up several times in my adult life and yet it didn't.

For the rest of us, we live our lives and try to think through what could happen.  As I said earlier in the thread, if the SHTF all bets are off -- I don't care how prepared you are.

I'm usually one of those voice saying "Then, move..." when it comes to folks living in commie states.

I lived in WA and CA for a while, but decided that I would rather live in communities with people that I shared values with.

Plan your work. Work your plan.

Anyone that really wants to move can do it, unless there are some really unusual circumstances at play, such as a child custody situation.

My opinion is:

1. You live in the middle of one of the largest metropolitan areas in the US. Good luck getting out. You won't have the magical insight or gut feeling that tells you to get out 6 days before everyone else has the s same idea.

2.  If SHTF, and you made it to your BOL, you will be seen by the locals as an eccentric outsider,  no better than any other city slicker passing through.

If shit goes south up here, we bug in.

I love the survival forum.

It is still tough to seriously discuss "SHTF" without a specific scenario.

The biggest SHTF scenario that most people will encounter is financial problems.

If your preps make you more, not less, financially stable then you are going the right way with it.

Edit becuz retarded

You could also find yourself a "one-horse" town; kill everyone in it except for the horse; & then post NBC-hazard warnings all over the place to deter anyone else from entering...

This and physical fitness/health.  For those that just bitch about their situation and want easy solutions to problems they've created (or inherited), I too often recommend "move", but moving often doesn't solve people's problems.  It really has less to do about their location, living arrangements and situation and more to do with making smart life-choices.  Even a modest family can make smart choices and investments in your average suburbia neighborhood.  It's not ideal long-term, but you can posture your family for success in most SHTF situations.  The key is to be realistic and honest with your assessments.  Most associate gear and supplies with preparation.  As mentioned, it's likely more important to be prepared financially and live a healthy life that will pay off in the long term.  For most, it's a hobby.  For the serious, it does become a lifestyle but balancing the here-and-now with the mindset and preparation for long-term "off-grid" sustainability is also important.  There will be a lot of lonely people with stocked bunker-homes who end up passing away and losing everything because they're alienated themselves from family and friends.  

My goal has always been to live by example.  Start with the basics of financial responsibility, understand the need to be self-sufficient, focus on fitness and making healthy life-choices, stay active, have fun but always be situationally aware of your surroundings.  Our hobbies are mostly outdoors, even our "vacations" are centered around like-activities.  My wife and kids enjoy taking tactical gun classes, first aid/advanced first aid classes and your local survival classes.  We are by no means in the perfect situation, but my confidence is less about where I live than how I'm situated with both plans and preparations.  I wish I could be completely debt free, but I'm still quite blessed that my son has almost a full ride through college on an ROTC scholarship (and should be employed as soon as he graduates).  My wife and I are probably as healthy as we've ever been and as much as my retiring peers try to milk a VA disability percentage, I'm also blessed to have zero health or physical issues.

Again, it's as much hobby as it is lifestyle for me, but I'll continue to keep moving in the self-sustaining direction.  What I don't want is to find ourselves a bitter old couple ready for TEOTWAWKI but few friends, estranged family and the only enjoyment is "stuff" buried in the man-cave.  Balance is the key to happiness and more important, being prepared is more mental and making smart decisions in life than stockpiling freeze dried food and Multicam gear and guns or moving to an isolated area where your only social interaction is ARFCOM

ROCK6

I was thinking of how I could contribute to this thread and then Rock6 comes along and sums it up perfectly.

That is some good advice right there and a dose of reality for those partaking of a "SHTF fantasy."

Thanks for contributing.

Good post!  Sometimes reality can be a hard pill to handle.  Its easier to game play your personal selected fantasy situation so you don't have to face the here and the now.  

I to prep, do the outdoor stuff, micro homestead, live as far in the woods and still realistically be able to commute to work because I really enjoy it. I grew up in a small town, its what I know, its what I enjoy, and its what I love.  

I am lucky enough to have a wife who enjoys it as well.  While she does give me a frown when another bit of gear or freeze dried foods show up, its never a huge deal because I don't prep for unrealistic situations.  I use much of the stuff while in the backcountry hunting, camping etc.  Its also nice to know I have a bit extra put back in case of a disaster.  She doesn't complain when the power has been out for a few hours and I fire up the generator that's for sure, or when we get our daily supply of fresh eggs from the coop (she enjoys the chickens as much as I do even though it took some convincing.)

Being almost out of debt is also an amazing feeling.  We are still pretty young, no kids unfortunately, but we only have our mortgage, and one car payment.  We do have a healthy slush fund so while job loss would be devastating, we would get by.  I live in one of those states, that every one hates, it is what it is I guess.  

I don't have a cool AR15 and its not because I don't want one, I could easily pick up an ARES SCR even living in this evil state, but my slush fund is more important.  Right before we sold our last house, to move to our current location I sold off several toys.  Lifted and locked Jeep, newer snowmobile, even my SKS (should have kept that one) but we did it to end up where we are now.  It takes sacrifice and hard work, not the newest bit of gear charged to the credit card which of course I am guilty of, I just make sure I can pay it off every month.

I still have my 1911, shotguns, hunting rifles, more 22LR then need.  Nothing tacticool but I have no doubt they can get the job done if necessary.

Not really.....
The zootopia review was entertaining....

OP is not wrong. Look to what worked in Europe for centuries. There you see small towns that are fairly dense because that is what was defensible. You don't see isolated farms and homesteads. Often, they are surrounded by fields, and the farmers live in town and ride their tractors out to the fields. A small town does off the advantage of other people to help at various tasks, like security, that you can't do by yourself. Ferfal has mentioned farmers being knocked off by gangs just because they were isolated and no one could respond, or know there was a problem.

That said, if I'm looking at a dual use property I can use for vacation AND a BOL, I'm probably looking for something in the woods because that is what it will most likely be used for. Even as a BOL it probably is going to be a place to go in case of hurricane or similar disaster. Teotwawki is pretty rare to date, and a vacation spot or small town in driving distance may be enough of a place to go even in an Argentina or Bosnia (been there, got the shirt) if it isn't too close.

I guess I'm one of the fortunate ones that lives in a neighborhood full of people that I know.  It's pretty rare, I'm sure.  I went out of my way to get to know people, though.

I don't expect everyone to have the same situation.  I can only talk from my perspective.

I think there is a lot of merit to the different proposals that people have put forth.  You'll just have to see which one works for you, when and if, it happens.

Once upon a time I lived in a big city (dfw) and a few days after a construction accident left me crippled some assholes flew into the twin towers.
Wake up in a haze of alcohol and pain meds unable to move and see the SHTF on TV and your prospective changes.
I lost everything and had to start over.
I ended up bugged out to a small town and got a desk job while healing up. Not too small but far enough off the beaten track to have a several day buffer to the big cities
I also moved my elderly parents cost of living is much cheaper. I then bought a place in the mountains and started building.
I figure wherever I am I need to plan on 50% of the population within 5 mile of any location becoming hostile.
And I expect to have to feed 70% of the population within 1 mile as I don't have it in me to watch children starve while I eat.
With those requirements I needed some level of remoteness to keep it affordable.
The BOL has around 100 country folk that want to be left alone within 10 miles and a number of BOLs for city folk.
It takes a good 4x4 to get to my place and you have to pass through several locked gates watched by people with attitudes. Hiking in from town would be next to impossible.
While most of my neighbors think I'm a little crazy they know they can count on me so I expect to have more friends than enemies.

My biggest regret is not having it close enough for a daily commute so I have to maintain 2 homes at this point.

A community of like minded beings is best.  Each member should have some skill that is an asset to the community.  

One thing about small towns, FSA is everywhere though so you have to be very selective.  There are some nasty sh*tholes where I come from (SF Bay Area) and some nasty sh*tholes where I am at now.  They're the druggies, the ne'er do wells and the thieves that society is better off when they're expired.  Some small towns are very hostile to "outsiders" who move in.  Know the area before you move.  Meet the people.  Talk to them.  

Pure isolation is nice, but no man is an island and few if any of us can survive in solitude.

Its not always the case, and it varies from country to country, but in general the socioeconomic relaity of the place will say a lot about what you can expect from your neighors. In a neighborhood where the average house costs 500k, most people will not put up with the guy down the road having a junkyeard in the front lawn, let alone growing pot in the back. The thing with small towns is that most of them also involve small income. Again, not always the case and some small towns can be VERY exclusive, then again, the price will be high for sure. Also there's the hostility to outsiders which you describe. It is indeed very much true. Hostility or indiference, which is still a far cry from having any sense of community let alone a local support network. I've seen first hand people be considered "outsiders" even after living there for 20 years. In somewhat affluent surroundings of mid size towns or small cities 50.000 or so, up to 100.000, you're a bit more likely to find more worldly, open minded people.
FerFAL

That's what all the worldly, open minded people from small cities tell me.

As a worldly, open minded guy from rural America, I can tell you that I'd take the quiet "mind your own business" type of person 100 times over 99% of small city people.

You can sell that bullshit to someone else.

I have never seen a town of any size without fsa.
Do the math and war game the scenario of them showing up to get a meal with or without your permission.
47%?

OK, would you rather have the FSA in Dallas, TX or Ranger, TX showing up for a free meal?

I like the area around Ranger but way too close to DFW.

Is that really an issue? We're talking about moving to a  place that will be conducive to survival, not being a economic center of commerce. The big money snobs are about the LAST type of person I'd care to have as neighbors.

This isn't really true here in America and even within smaller cities (from 50-100K), you'll get pockets of various social-economic types.  Open minded or worldly is a dangerous stereotype as I would put those types of people in the liberal, rely-on-government groups who don't prepare much beyond spending a weekend on the town.  Cultures are quite diverse, but "open-minded" isn't much of a complement in my book...it's more like exclusive, elitism or radical progressive socialism that looks down and even demagogues those who are more conservative and strive to be independent.  These are typically the close-minded hypocrites whose values swing the direction of Hollywood, pop-culture or worldly-socialism viewpoints; simply a dangerous crowd post SHTF...

ROCK6

FerFAL has been selling this line of thinking here for a long time. I think he has a lot more in common with those types of people than he does with rural America so he allows that to bias his opinions on survival. He really has no idea who rural America is. Sure there is poverty. That poverty is why I am the hard working Libertarian I am today. There are shitheads everywhere. They don't bother people out here because they know they would get shot. Add in more people and you automatically get more shitheads. It's like math or something.......

It is tougher for an outsider to get a job in a small town BUT small towns lose there smart kids for the big city so there is a demand for smart hardworking individuals.
Easy to become a big fish in a small pond.
First contract I took everyone was confused when I worked 80 hours a week to get it done.
I got results fast which is what dog eat dog city life taught me.
PRO TIP be nice to everyone no matter what there is no anonymity in a small town.
Just work hard and smile all the time and ignore crazy.

Truth.  My experience is that small town people everywhere in America value friendly behavior, helping out, doing what you say you will do, giving the friendly wave, and not being a jerk.  I'm sure there are small towns with lots of inbred assholes but I haven't seen one yet.

I THINK that it might be due to his background.
I've never been to Argentina, but it seems to me that in many third world nations the population is divided between more well-to-do urbanites and abject poverty in the rural areas
I would assume that Argentina follows that pattern.

The US absolutely has some areas of abject poverty with few opportunities, but we also have areas outside of urban centers with a lot of opportunities for those willing to work.

Also, he may have experienced some discrimination since leaving Argentina that may have colored his perceptions about what parts of a nations population is more welcoming to an outsider.
Just guessing.

Working in southern Georgia made me wonder if inbreeding and meth where a local requirement.

Based on my travels I believe you are correct.  Our class system is so much less than the rest of the world.

Reasonable assumptions.

We have a city like he suggests in the northern half of our county, typical of most small cities. I wouldn't be caught dead there during a crisis. Far too many FSA.

Where I'm at the Golden Rule is key to getting along well.

Amen.  If more people, myself included,  followed that simple rule the world would be a better place. But since they aren't, and I'm not, we need to prepare.

Ain't that the truth!

^Ridiculous.^

My place is pretty isolated. In fact I just snowshoe'd in to spend the weekend there, last week.

Fortunately there are more elk and antelope than people, by a big margin.









We could be fairly comfortable and well fed for quite a while, while we figured out the next course of action.

Or socialists.

I work LE in a fairly populated county.  I live in a nearby county.  The county where I work is pretty affluent for the most part.  We do have some real FSA areas of the county but they are actual communities of their own.  They don't like LE coming in and they don't cooperate with LE for the most part.  They do depend on government aid but for the most part, they keep to themselves.  They do have some criminal types that steal regularly but almost never from each other.  They kind of operate from the mentality of "don't shit in your own neighborhood".  The largest city in the county has a very vibrant and active criminal element.  One of the worst areas for crime is just outside the city in the county suburbs.  The criminals come out of the city to steal in the county.  But, if you get about 10 miles outside the city, crime plummets to almost nothing.  Criminals don't like to get far from their support network.  In a real major disaster, I could see the criminals venture out a bit farther but they still stay close to their network.  

In my more rural county that I live in, it's tight nit but not exclusive.  For the most part, everyone new is welcomed.  As long as you aren't an asshole, everyone is happy to help each other.  We loan each other things and help each other out with projects.  Crime does exist but it's much less.  Mostly it's drug abusing acquaintances of the victim who know what they will find in the home if they break in. Lesson there is....keep drug abusers away from you and your property.  Keep good relations with your neighbors and they will look out for your stuff.

My fear is that when the food runs out and fear of law degrades the FSA will change there patterns and range much further if not a full migration to where they perceive food to be.

Views can be tainted by his social up bringing as well.
Was he raised poor or was he higher up the class ladder.
From his postings..attitudes about his hired help ill gamble he was no where near the "poor" scale.
I also find his input on anything rural America just out there. Same as our cities.

50-100k... can be town full of FSA.
Lets look here...crime rates of Jacksonville vs the villages....crime rate of Orange county (Orlando area) vs Flagler county....

Like posted 
Math.


In my small town of sub 2k...there's FSA..retirees ...and well off people.
They all mingle...they all know each other..it's the typical everyone waves as you drive by kinda place.

Antifa.
Lol.
We can watch on the tube daily how the worldly ...educated..types feel about those that don't follow their way of thinking.
I love the "if they would only read a book"..." become educated" type comments when their burning a flag or ripping up a protest sign in the name of "free speech" . Lmao.
Its like a real life ignore button...echo chamber thinking.
Hmmmm.....

The largest city in our county only has 18,000+ people in it and I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it if SHTF.

You close minded ..uneducated..anti world citzen ..inbred hillbilly. ..
You should move closer to it.
If shtf you'd be able to travel less in order to barter a pack of cigs for 1/2 liter of whiskey..then trade that off for a gallon of gas.
Which you could then use to have a date night with the wife..while your nanny your paying with chicken eggs and old mres watches the kids.
It's a utopia,bro.. move now or your fate is sealed...lol