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Posted: 7/16/2016 1:29:21 AM EDT
[#1]
As a generalization yes. It will depend on shape, wall thickness and actual material. Sunk one made of roto molded plastic into the ground. Only 1500 gals and left the top exposed but no issues when empty. For fiberglass I would paint the outside of the tank with something, anything. To fill any pores and create a moisture barrier. Fiberglass exposed to prolonged moisture can in some cases get blisters where the cloth seperates. Better safe than sorry.
If building a cistern maybe consider Concrete block. Built one in Bahamas 40K gal under house foundation. If I remember it was 30x60x6. Concrete. potable water waterproof coating painted on inside. Water treatment infrastructure on slab above. If concrete cistern up scale the rebar. The engineer will know what is needed for soil type. |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 6:47:43 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a generalization yes. It will depend on shape, wall thickness and actual material. Sunk one made of roto molded plastic into the ground. Only 1500 gals and left the top exposed but no issues when empty. For fiberglass I would paint the outside of the tank with something, anything. To fill any pores and create a moisture barrier. Fiberglass exposed to prolonged moisture can in some cases get blisters where the cloth seperates. Better safe than sorry. . Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a generalization yes. It will depend on shape, wall thickness and actual material. Sunk one made of roto molded plastic into the ground. Only 1500 gals and left the top exposed but no issues when empty. For fiberglass I would paint the outside of the tank with something, anything. To fill any pores and create a moisture barrier. Fiberglass exposed to prolonged moisture can in some cases get blisters where the cloth seperates. Better safe than sorry. . 
did you read what he posted??? Your analogy is not even close he wants to bury the damn thing Quoted:
Is my thought process correct that if it can withstand the pressure of 30,000 gallons of water, that it could withstand having say 4' of dirt on top of it with it being empty. Hell no!!! OP no, most roofs of storage vessels are not built for load as the load is on the sides/bottom. "most" storage tops are just for cover unless its a pressure vessel |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 6:54:04 AM EDT
[#3]
are you sure its a 30000 gal tank? that's huge. that's about 12'x 36' is it ribbed? |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 7:08:25 AM EDT
[#4]
I'd be worried.
Perhaps you could shot-crete it to beef up the shell or build a form around it and pour a "block" around it. Without any knowledge, I'd go with the direct pour. If you end up with a rock or something pushing against the wall, I'd say that the shell could get compromised easily. |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 12:10:52 PM EDT
[#5]
I'll defer to the engineers or those that know more......but I would be concerned with 4' of dirt on top of it. Side pressure during rainstorms would be bad enough.....but 4' of dirt on top of something with surface area area large enough to hold 30,000 gallons would be in the thousands of pounds. My concrete septic tanks aren't even rated for something like that.
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Posted: 7/16/2016 12:44:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
..but 4' of dirt on top of something with surface area area large enough to hold 30,000 gallons would be in the thousands of pounds. My Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile about 45,000lbs of dirt the water weight would be 2300lbs/ft on the floor i doubt its a vertical tank |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 2:19:21 PM EDT
[#7]
I'll defer to the engineers or those that know more......but I would be concerned with 4' of dirt on top of it. Side pressure during rainstorms would be bad enough.....but 4' of dirt on top of something with surface area area large enough to hold 30,000 gallons would be in the thousands of pounds. My concrete septic tanks aren't even rated for something like that.
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Posted: 7/16/2016 4:06:20 PM EDT
[#8]
i would be worried about the tank floating in ground water when it's empty,
just like a swimming pool does. Thats a lot of buoyancy when empty. Way more that 4 ft of dirt to keep it down. |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 7:52:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Yes it's 30,000 gallons.... the reason I'm asking is I found one cheap that held distilled water..... I was considering the feasibility of laying it on it's side buried and have a ready made waterproof "bunker" although I'd actually be looking to live in it, Ideally dig into a side of a hill with one end exposed with a door, window etc.... so at the front only a little dirt but the further your go back the deeper into the hill it would be
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Posted: 7/16/2016 8:14:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes it's 30,000 gallons.... the reason I'm asking is I found one cheap that held distilled water..... I was considering the feasibility of laying it on it's side buried and have a ready made waterproof "bunker" although I'd actually be looking to live in it, Ideally dig into a side of a hill with one end exposed with a door, window etc.... so at the front only a little dirt but the further your go back the deeper into the hill it would be That will never work. |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 9:11:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That will never work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes it's 30,000 gallons.... the reason I'm asking is I found one cheap that held distilled water..... I was considering the feasibility of laying it on it's side buried and have a ready made waterproof "bunker" although I'd actually be looking to live in it, Ideally dig into a side of a hill with one end exposed with a door, window etc.... so at the front only a little dirt but the further your go back the deeper into the hill it would be That will never work. Reason being? does fiberglass off gas or just won't work because of the pressure put on it by the dirt? |
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Posted: 7/16/2016 11:31:36 PM EDT
[#12]
is this tank ribbed?
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Posted: 7/17/2016 12:05:03 AM EDT
[#13]
by ribbed do you mean like a metal encasement on the outside? if so....yes
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Posted: 7/17/2016 10:16:10 AM EDT
[#14]
30000 gallons?
We just installed a 18,400 gallon tank for a work project. It is 21' x 12'. About 72 gal per inch high. Lololol 30k.....thats a big fucking hole. They use glass or FRP tanks for septic and fuel storage, so why not. |
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Posted: 7/17/2016 10:29:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
by ribbed do you mean like a metal encasement on the outside? if so....yes get a engineer and stop asking strangers on the net while giving little to no useful information yes just bury it, it wont matter. |
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Posted: 7/17/2016 11:00:55 AM EDT
[#16]
a 12x36 tank with 45,000 lbs of dirt on it with no internal buttressing?
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Posted: 7/17/2016 12:06:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Some of you guys can be real assholes for no real reason..... I'm not forcing anyone to respond, I don't have a lot of information to go on, clearly I don't know much about the subject, and I thought a big part of a forum was to ask question..... as stated in the first post I know I'm not going to get an exact answer, I was just doing a sanity check to see if anyone has heard of this being done, done it themselves, not as likely but someone that works in the field and could be like yeah a tank that can hold 30,000 gallons would have to at least blah blah blah.
My thought process was if that tank was full of 30,000 gallons of water and it's 12' diameter, the internal pressure at the bottom of that tank has to be crazy when full, plus I wasn't sure just how much an above ground tank differs from one meant to be buried from the start. Lastly with stuff like this Atlas Survival Shelters with the round corrugated steel shelters from the pictures I can see it's not all that thick of material they use..... it's the round shape that distributes the load even that |
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Posted: 7/17/2016 12:15:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of you guys can be real assholes for no real reason..... I'm not forcing anyone to respond, I don't have a lot of information to go on, clearly I don't know much about the subject, and I thought a big part of a forum was to ask question..... as stated in the first post I know I'm not going to get an exact answer, I was just doing a sanity check to see if anyone has heard of this being done, done it themselves, not as likely but someone that works in the field and could be like yeah a tank that can hold 30,000 gallons would have to at least blah blah blah. My thought process was if that tank was full of 30,000 gallons of water and it's 12' diameter, the internal pressure at the bottom of that tank has to be crazy when full, plus I wasn't sure just how much an above ground tank differs from one meant to be buried from the start. Lastly with stuff like this Atlas Survival Shelters with the round corrugated steel shelters from the pictures I can see it's not all that thick of material they use..... it's the round shape that distributes the load even that GoodAsGone, everyone is speculating... We need to see the specs for the tank, or detailed info and pix... It might be possible, no one has any idea w/out more info... |
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Posted: 7/17/2016 8:57:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GoodAsGone, everyone is speculating... We need to see the specs for the tank, or detailed info and pix... It might be possible, no one has any idea w/out more info... I tend to over explain things, with this thread I was trying to do the opposite and get right to the point  ..... He doesn't give much info and the pictures are crappy, I could reach out to him but honestly it's not very likely I was just wondering if it could happen..... Here's the information he gives
"The large tanks measure 12' wide and about 35' tall. They were transported in by truck and sat up with a crane. They can transport anywhere in the USA where you need water storage. The tanks are equipped with all the plumbing, and even hook ups for a CIP system. " to me a fiberglass enclosure would beat out corrugated steel and as mentioned if you look around at the picture at the website I linked that stuff doesn't look thick at all and they talk about burying it a lot deeper than 4' |
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Posted: 7/17/2016 11:43:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tend to over explain things, with this thread I was trying to do the opposite and get right to the point ..... He doesn't give much info and the pictures are crappy, I could reach out to him but honestly it's not very likely I was just wondering if it could happen..... Here's the information he gives
"The large tanks measure 12' wide and about 35' tall. They were transported in by truck and sat up with a crane. They can transport anywhere in the USA where you need water storage. The tanks are equipped with all the plumbing, and even hook ups for a CIP system. " to me a fiberglass enclosure would beat out corrugated steel and as mentioned if you look around at the picture at the website I linked that stuff doesn't look thick at all and they talk about burying it a lot deeper than 4' Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
GoodAsGone, everyone is speculating... We need to see the specs for the tank, or detailed info and pix... It might be possible, no one has any idea w/out more info... I tend to over explain things, with this thread I was trying to do the opposite and get right to the point ..... He doesn't give much info and the pictures are crappy, I could reach out to him but honestly it's not very likely I was just wondering if it could happen..... Here's the information he gives
"The large tanks measure 12' wide and about 35' tall. They were transported in by truck and sat up with a crane. They can transport anywhere in the USA where you need water storage. The tanks are equipped with all the plumbing, and even hook ups for a CIP system. " to me a fiberglass enclosure would beat out corrugated steel and as mentioned if you look around at the picture at the website I linked that stuff doesn't look thick at all and they talk about burying it a lot deeper than 4' I've buried a 1000+ gallon 'cistern' and had no issue going into it. These tanks are heavily corrugated and extremely strong -built to be buried. Some tanks are spec'd to be filled with water when backfilled. I didn't with mine A typical cistern this size is about 4 by 7 feet or so... Buried 2 feet, that's about 56 cubic feet of dirt that could weigh over 6000 pounds wet. Hitting the inside plastic is like hitting a rock... The top is arched and a lot of strength results There's no apparent distortion inside... As far as getting a free tank -that's all well and good -however the costs to bury, etc., -you're just getting started.... Like buying a piece of land, then what do you do with all the ongoing expenses |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 12:25:51 PM EDT
[#21]
You would have to see if it was meant to be buried. Holding liquid inside of a tank is totally different than withstanding tens of thousands of pounds of dirt.
OR Use it as a concrete form. No, really. Set it where you want your bunker. Secure it from moving (but leaving it exposed). Make a rebar grid about 3 inches from the structure and pour cement as you backfill and arrange lumber to keep the concrete in place, trying to keep about 6 inches thick. You may have to pressurize the tank with either air (calculate the PSI load of the concrete and compensate with that much psi of air), or fill with water and cap it off if you hate your aquifer. Of course, by the time you do all that, you could probably build a concrete block bunker..  |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 11:21:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Think small scale for comparison.
How much pressure can a coke can handle inside? How easy is it to crush from the outside? That fiberglass tank is the same thing, just bigger. |
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Posted: 7/22/2016 5:33:28 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think small scale for comparison. How much pressure can a coke can handle inside? How easy is it to crush from the outside? That fiberglass tank is the same thing, just bigger. Talking with a buddy he said the same thing..... definitely helped me realize the differences. Soooo the exterior tank may be able to handle it but it's not as cut and dry as I was hoping. Thanks to everyone that gave useful input |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 11:18:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think small scale for comparison. How much pressure can a coke can handle inside? How easy is it to crush from the outside? That fiberglass tank is the same thing, just bigger. This. These things are designed for hoop stress. External forces will crush them. |
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