Ensuring your gold and silver PMs are real

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ensuring your gold and silver PMs are real

Posted: 7/11/2016 10:08:06 AM EDT

After finding it on another website, I've become a big believer in The Fisch line of products. I'm not affiliated with them at all- just a happy customer who thought others in this forum might be interested as well.

I've used to test all of my gov-minted gold and silver, and found no issues. The system is simple and easy to use, and when combined with the high-res pics and other "tells" the company helps explain it makes it very easy to demonstrate and test for either a buyer or seller. The basic setup is a molded holder that is used to test the weight and geometry of the tested coin, which weeds out the common fakes. The new device is a coin holder that helps safely "ring" the coin to listen for tells of it being a tungsten fake. High res pics and audio files are provided to help you know what "right" looks and sounds like.

Anyone else use these, and had any issues I've maybe missed?

Posted: 7/11/2016 10:22:28 AM EDT

[#1]

Oh my, what an innovative product.

Posted: 7/12/2016 11:59:44 PM EDT

[#2]

Not picking on the original poster at all, I know folks who would rather have something like this than to mess with what I am about to say.

If you reload or work on stuff or just have access to some odds and ends you can do it yourself.

A seriously accurate scale, like reloading or maybe, could probably handle weighing a silver or gold coin.

A set of calipers or micrometer or whatever else might be used for proper serious measurement might also be around if you work on vehicles or reload or whatever.

I would expect that the weights and meausures for various stuff should not be too hard to find and check on.

And at the same time, I know some who would prefer the little kit anyway.

Posted: 7/13/2016 12:23:27 PM EDT

[#3]

With PikeSlayer's help, I bought a scale. I also have a micrometer and a caliper. However, those scales are much easier to use (unfortunately they're not cheap).

Posted: 7/15/2016 10:11:36 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not picking on the original poster at all, I know folks who would rather have something like this than to mess with what I am about to say.

If you reload or work on stuff or just have access to some odds and ends you can do it yourself.

A seriously accurate scale, like reloading or maybe, could probably handle weighing a silver or gold coin.

A set of calipers or micrometer or whatever else might be used for proper serious measurement might also be around if you work on vehicles or reload or whatever.

I would expect that the weights and meausures for various stuff should not be too hard to find and check on.

And at the same time, I know some who would prefer the little kit anyway.

View Quote

It is waaaay easier to slip a few of these in your pocket when you are out and about! And these are way more durable when being moved and bumped around!

Posted: 7/15/2016 11:39:41 PM EDT

[#5]

They seem to be a decent tool, but a little pricey unless you are buying the same coin fairly frequently and in situations that are at high risk for fakes.

Posted: 7/15/2016 11:42:23 PM EDT

[#6]

They sell different packages - most of which come with 5 different "scales" for 5 or more coins.

Posted: 7/16/2016 12:46:07 AM EDT

[#7]

If it is SHTF. No one is accepting anything short of cutting it in half, drilling a hole in it or melting it down and scraping off the slag and weighing it !
Otherwise.. Carry on.

Posted: 7/16/2016 3:27:12 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

If it is SHTF. No one is accepting anything short of cutting it in half, drilling a hole in it or melting it down and scraping off the slag and weighing it !
Otherwise.. Carry on.

View Quote

Not sure I agree with that. I've been in some pretty shady parts of the world, and recognized coins like Krugs were always taken- and non-destructively tested. The people who have used PMs to escape local or regional collapses, and they are out there to speak with, don't describe the destructive suspicion you're referring to. Anything "for SHTF" is speculative at best, but the little bit of history and experience we can base decisions and expectations on don't much align with your theory.

Posted: 7/17/2016 4:14:19 PM EDT

[#9]

I use a ultrasonic thickness gauge and calipers. Virtually impossible to spoof that combo.

I'm surprised Fisch hasn't introduced a phone app to go with that "ringer" as it'd be relatively
easy to do some basic digital signal processing on a coin to confirm it's both gold and probably
even ID the coin from the frequencies and impulse response.

Posted: 7/17/2016 7:40:02 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I use a ultrasonic thickness gauge and calipers. Virtually impossible to spoof that combo.

I'm surprised Fisch hasn't introduced a phone app to go with that "ringer" as it'd be relatively
easy to do some basic digital signal processing on a coin to confirm it's both gold and probably
even ID the coin from the frequencies and impulse response.

View Quote

I know James Turk Gold Money uses ultrasonic to test any gold received at his depositories in Switzerland, Singapore and Hong Kong. What model do you use?

Posted: 7/22/2016 11:15:48 AM EDT

[#11]

I used my reloading scales and calipers , granted it is not handy when traveling

Posted: 7/22/2016 11:23:24 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I used my reloading scales and calipers , granted it is not handy when traveling

View Quote

Recent tungsten fakes are good to go for weight, size and thickness- the ring test and careful visual inspection are the best ways to catch those. A scale or caliper will not.

Posted: 7/22/2016 2:30:17 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

I know James Turk Gold Money uses ultrasonic to test any gold received at his depositories in Switzerland, Singapore and Hong Kong. What model do you use?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I use a ultrasonic thickness gauge and calipers. Virtually impossible to spoof that combo.

I'm surprised Fisch hasn't introduced a phone app to go with that "ringer" as it'd be relatively
easy to do some basic digital signal processing on a coin to confirm it's both gold and probably
even ID the coin from the frequencies and impulse response.

I know James Turk Gold Money uses ultrasonic to test any gold received at his depositories in Switzerland, Singapore and Hong Kong. What model do you use?

I use a Phase II UTG-2800, but any good (e.g. high resolution, something better than 0.1mm) should work
well.

Fisch used to be the gold standard (pardon the pun) and some places actually sold them with a guarantee that
no fake would get past them -- until fakes showed up that passed the Fisch tests. That's why there's a ringer
now and why UTGs are probably the better option. They can use tungsten to get the mass right but they'll
never get the speed of sound in gold right.

Posted: 7/22/2016 3:49:48 PM EDT

[#14]

Buy USA or Canadian government mint from a reliable dealer and no problems.

Posted: 7/30/2016 8:37:11 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

I use a Phase II UTG-2800, but any good (e.g. high resolution, something better than 0.1mm) should work
well.

Fisch used to be the gold standard (pardon the pun) and some places actually sold them with a guarantee that
no fake would get past them -- until fakes showed up that passed the Fisch tests. That's why there's a ringer
now and why UTGs are probably the better option. They can use tungsten to get the mass right but they'll
never get the speed of sound in gold right.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I use a ultrasonic thickness gauge and calipers. Virtually impossible to spoof that combo.

I'm surprised Fisch hasn't introduced a phone app to go with that "ringer" as it'd be relatively
easy to do some basic digital signal processing on a coin to confirm it's both gold and probably
even ID the coin from the frequencies and impulse response.

I know James Turk Gold Money uses ultrasonic to test any gold received at his depositories in Switzerland, Singapore and Hong Kong. What model do you use?

I use a Phase II UTG-2800, but any good (e.g. high resolution, something better than 0.1mm) should work
well.

Fisch used to be the gold standard (pardon the pun) and some places actually sold them with a guarantee that
no fake would get past them -- until fakes showed up that passed the Fisch tests. That's why there's a ringer
now and why UTGs are probably the better option. They can use tungsten to get the mass right but they'll
never get the speed of sound in gold right.

Thanks.

Posted: 7/30/2016 3:20:22 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
I use a ultrasonic thickness gauge and calipers. Virtually impossible to spoof that combo.

I'm surprised Fisch hasn't introduced a phone app to go with that "ringer" as it'd be relatively
easy to do some basic digital signal processing on a coin to confirm it's both gold and probably
even ID the coin from the frequencies and impulse response.

View Quote

Seek,

How do you compensate for coin's surface irregularity when measuring thickness with an ultrasonic thickness gauge ???

Posted: 7/30/2016 4:07:52 PM EDT

[#17]

I always use the sensor on the same spot on the coin. and ultrasonic couplant
makes up for the rest. Given the wild difference in the speed of sound between
gold and tungsten a little bit of variation is tolerable as well.

Posted: 7/30/2016 9:45:49 PM EDT

[#18]

pawn shops use the kit with the stone and small droppers. Drag gold on stone, put drop on mark and see if it dissolves...something like that.

Posted: 8/2/2016 9:13:50 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Buy USA or Canadian government mint from a reliable dealer and no problems.

View Quote

A lot of us have testers of one kind or another to show a future buyer what we have is good to go- who won't much care where you say you bought it from.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ensuring your gold and silver PMs are real

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