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Posted: 4/25/2016 6:26:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteelonSteel Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteelonSteel the chrome chamber and bore of the SKS. Next to an unchromed SKS, I'd pick the lever first. With a stainless lever-action the chrome chamber and bore of the SKS is moot. Considering the limited available loads in 7.62x39 a .357 an/or 30/30 have a lot more therefore both a more versatile in a "survival" situation. |
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Posted: 4/25/2016 6:41:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Aaaaaaand, FPNI
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Posted: 4/25/2016 6:59:36 PM EDT
[#3]
If the premise is purely survival, the benefits afforded by the SKS put it ahead of the lever. (Parts, mods, reliability, rate of fire, steel core ammo).
If you add the caveat of following the law regardless of how it changes, yes the lever may have a longer life in your possession. Fantasy decision is to get an AK folder and cache it. |
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Posted: 4/25/2016 7:20:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the premise is purely survival, the benefits afforded by the SKS put it ahead of the lever. (Parts, mods, reliability, rate of fire, steel core ammo). If you add the caveat of following the law regardless of how it changes, yes the lever may have a longer life in your possession. Fantasy decision is to get an AK folder and cache it. If the premise is purely survival I fundamentally disagree. Parts. mod, rate of fire and steel-core ammo have no relation to a purely survival firearm. Rate of fire and steel-core ammo have no relation to shooting small and big game in a survival situation. The USAF did/does not issue M1 Garands, M-14s or M-16s to aircrew for survival situations. Nor has it lever-actions but we're talking "survival" not fighting your way to the local Walmart. Lever-actions are relatively simple parts and function wise, and have been used in rough conditions for over 150 years. If we're taking SHTF (like most appear to think automatically) then its a different ball game. Two totally different roles. My .02 |
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Posted: 4/25/2016 7:33:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Being experienced with both, I'll take the SKS all day every day. Simply because of the ammunition. 30-30 ammo is roughly 3 to 4 times the price of 7.62x39mm. Sure typical 30-30 ammo commonly found in local stores is good quality domestically made hunting ammunition but it cost $20 per box. While 7.62x39mm is often sold in quantities of a thousand, 30-30 is usually sold one 20 round box at a time and stores don't keep that many boxes on hand.
30-30 is better if you reload but if you don't then it's going to get expensive to shoot. An SKS will do a much better job as a hunting rifle then a lever action will do as a battle rifle. You can also buy better quality US made hunting ammunition in 7.62x39mm if you want. Similar prices to 30-30 and appears to be brass cased and reloadable ( I'm not a reloader). As far as appearances go in my experience most people look at an SKS and think it is a bolt action. Most new shooters I have handed an SKS grab the bold handle and try to twist it upwards like you would with a bolt action. |
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Posted: 4/25/2016 7:49:42 PM EDT
[#6]
"Survival" is a pretty broad term.
It can mean anything from surviving in the woods through hunting, to fighting your way to the local Walmart to get a pack of Snickers. Depending on your AOPS either an SKS or a good lever-action would work. If I had no other choice I'd grab an SKS with its known limitations, but 99.99% of the time I wouldn't since I have far better options more suited to my area. Folks need to figure that out. BTW the price difference between 7.62x39 and 30/30 hunting-type ammo is only 2X in my area ($7.00 vs. $14.00) but some folks may have to pay more from their local sources. |
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Posted: 4/25/2016 10:24:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Full spectrum survival: SKS>Lever>Mosin
Cheapest foraging: Mosin + a tin of ammo 440 rnds When SKS's were cheap, you could buy two and a case of ammo for the price of a new 30/30. If you want to split hairs, define your metrics. If survival was just hunting, this wouldn't be survival forum lol. If mil issue was relevant we'd all have m-6 scout's. You want a nice rifle, with adequate power, a variety of ammo available, easier to get a quality scope mounted, that doesn't look like a tapco experiment, avoids law issues, then grab the lever. We're talking fantasy by comparing $150 guns...because serious prep takes into account a lot more factors. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 6:01:20 AM EDT
[#8]
Just to add fuel to the discussion, during the last ammo scarcity, 30-30 ammo was always available but 7.62x39 was hard to find.
I really like the .357 lever guns and this discussion has reignited the desire to have one. I'm going to have to find one somewhere. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 7:42:08 AM EDT
[#9]
SKS all day every day. Survival, rioting, hunting, whatever. I can shoot a 3" group with an SKS at 100 yards. Reloading is very fast with stripper clips. 3 seconds and you have 10 rds available in a magazine. Levers don't even begin to compare. Try to find that tiny loading port under stress, and don't forget to ensure that the rim snaps all the way in. I don't think so. In a "combat" situation, even any stripper clip loaded bolt action beats a lever action. You're much better off with a Mauser or even a Mosin. Levers are OK for hunting, as long as the prey doesn't shoot back and you don't have to reload. So, get an SKS and be happy.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:59:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just to add fuel to the discussion, during the last ammo scarcity, 30-30 ammo was always available but 7.62x39 was hard to find. I really like the .357 lever guns and this discussion has reignited the desire to have one. I'm going to have to find one somewhere. I'm with you. Already have a 357 wheel gun..and carbine in 357 would be a great woods combo IMHO. But it'd be a "want " buy vs need. I love my 94 as posted earlier. But its not a primary choice shtf. I've got better tools in the tool chest. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 9:06:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
If you bought today for long term use, what would you buy and why? No doubt at all, the SKS all day long. 1st, semi auto fast follow up shots. For defense, even hunting. As they say in boxing "speed kills" and here its particularly true. The lever action is of modrate speed and can be faster and fancy with lots of hours invested in it but it gets more complicated doing tricks in CQC with someone shooting back at you or even worse, on top of you trying to carve a few more holes into you. The SKS is powerful, far more durable and reliable as well, and more accurate than most lever actions out there. If you look at the pros you listed for the lever action, being honest most of them arent accurate. It may be a proven design, but sure not more than an SKS. For hunting in the woods? the SKS is small, and has the key advantage of being semi auto for close range shooting. Id say it clearly wins for hunting in the woods over the lever action. Reloading? May well be, but SKS ammo is often cheaper than reloading. Theres more fancy options for an SKS than lever actions if thats your thing. Anyway, I just dont see a reason why you would want to go with a lever aciton if an SKS is an option. Choosing a gun because some people believe it to be more acceptable is complete madness, makes no sense at all. Your neighbors probably cant tell an SKS form a lever action if you show them a pci of both, let alone catch a glimpse of the thing ten yards away and cops will shoot you just as well if you are armed with an 303 Enfield or an M60. FerFAL |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 9:59:17 AM EDT
[#12]
I can't believe it's 2016 and people are still positing on the SKS being the best option for a survival situation.
No surprise the same discussions involve "combat", "loading under stress" and other silly notions that would have little to do with any actual survival situation. When did survival automatically equal fantasy TEOTWAWKI scenarios? |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:02:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't believe it's 2016 and people are still positing on the SKS being the best option for a survival situation. No surprise the same discussions involve "combat", "loading under stress" and other silly notions that would have little to do with any actual survival situation. When did survival automatically equal fantasy TEOTWAWKI scenarios? SKS is a much better all around rifle than a lever action. Going by what you are saying, why discuss weapons at a? |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:08:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither would be my choice, but if I had to choose between those two, I would pick the sks. Rugged and reliable are my priorities. Semiauto is a big plus to me. Good point. I grew up with .22 semiautos so it is just more natural to me. I like lever actions, but I think the SKS is more dependable, easier to take down if you have a jam. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:30:33 AM EDT
[#15]
Um...why would you take a SKS over a Saiga?
I live in the Communist Republic of NYS, and Saigas, SKS's and Neutered AR's are all perfectly legal, and sold every day...along with stripped lowers :D....and the rest is nobodies buisness |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:51:52 AM EDT
[#16]
i've got right at 500$ into 4 sks and a case each 154 gr sp, 122 hp, 120 fmj.
I can poke a hole in a pie plate at 200yds easy enough which would be ok for a make due deer gun. Out west you'll have to hunt waterholes,travel paths to feed to make a shot.Sks would work for the most basic need, food. protection from bad folks, sks more firepower, I dont own a lever gun but want one badly. It would do well for hunting, But I think would be lacking against bad folks that have more shots and their ammo may have better blind penetration. With all that said I'd still trade a couple sks to get into a revolver and lever if I could. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:53:17 AM EDT
[#17]
a dupe oops
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Posted: 4/26/2016 9:54:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No doubt at all, the SKS all day long. The SKS is powerful, far more durable and reliable as well, and more accurate than most lever actions out there. FerFAL Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you bought today for long term use, what would you buy and why? No doubt at all, the SKS all day long. The SKS is powerful, far more durable and reliable as well, and more accurate than most lever actions out there. FerFAL All commonly available 30/30 ammo is significantly more powerful than 7.62x39, and there is a wider selection of loads. The closest common denominator to typical 30/30 ammo is Tula 154 gr soft point, and its whoefully less powerful than 150 gr 30/30. I doubt you've shot/used many lever-action rifles to make statements regarding accuracy and reliability. I sure won't be packing an SKS in my AOPS since there far better rifles to use.. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 9:56:48 PM EDT
[#19]
This Arfcom needs a TEOTWAWKI sub-forum.
Then actual survival discussions can occur here as this sub-forum is titled. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:16:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Like I said earlier "survival" is a broad term.
If you're in a urban survival situation then an SKS may meet your needs fine, but if you're in a rural survival situation a .357 lever-action or something more powerful will be a more versatile and sustainable platform. My .02 |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 1:19:32 AM EDT
[#21]
SKS is the better all round choice.
Follow-up shots are much faster and more accurate than a lever action. Plus, you need something in 7.62x39 if you don't have it already. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 4:29:08 AM EDT
[#22]
More important than SKS or lever using what you are proficient with. Both guns are more than adequate to kill game or people. Both are easy to get ammo for.
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Posted: 4/27/2016 4:35:05 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All commonly available 30/30 ammo is significantly more powerful than 7.62x39, and there is a wider selection of loads. The closest common denominator to typical 30/30 ammo is Tula 154 gr soft point, and its whoefully less powerful than 150 gr 30/30. I doubt you've shot/used many lever-action rifles to make statements regarding accuracy and reliability. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you bought today for long term use, what would you buy and why? No doubt at all, the SKS all day long. The SKS is powerful, far more durable and reliable as well, and more accurate than most lever actions out there. FerFAL All commonly available 30/30 ammo is significantly more powerful than 7.62x39, and there is a wider selection of loads. The closest common denominator to typical 30/30 ammo is Tula 154 gr soft point, and its whoefully less powerful than 150 gr 30/30. I doubt you've shot/used many lever-action rifles to make statements regarding accuracy and reliability. I have shot enough lever action rifles to get over the cowboy fun factor and objectively see them for what they are: Nice guns but ultimately obsolete technology. Like SA revolvers, lever actions once made sene but if we let go of the romantic aspect and are 100% honest and blunt there's only one word to describe lever action rifles: Obsolete. For defensive use a semi auto is always a better choice. Even for hunting you have more accurate and more powerful semi autos and if accuracy and reliability is what you need bolt action rifles beat it all day long which is why bolt rifles are what most hunters use. There's nothing "wrong" with a lever action rifle, and I'll say that a pistol caliber carbine combined with a matching revolver is quite handy. If you "want" to go for a lever action rifle you dont need excuses. Then again the OP questions was objective choice between lever action and an SKS for general survival and the simple truth is that the lever action technology has been surpassed beyond reasonable doubt. I sure won't be packing an SKS in my AOPS since there far better rifles to use.. Then start your own thread asking which gun is best for hunting in your AOPS. That sure wasnt the OP question. This Arfcom needs a TEOTWAWKI sub-forum.
Then actual survival discussions can occur here as this sub-forum is titled. That would be "your" missguided version of survival, which seems to be hunting with your favorite gun which seems to be a lever action rifle. You dont need the end of the world to know in which cases guns save lives. (Hint: its not people starving to death due to poor gun selection for hunting) FerFAL |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 6:28:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All commonly available 30/30 ammo is significantly more powerful than 7.62x39, and there is a wider selection of loads. The closest common denominator to typical 30/30 ammo is Tula 154 gr soft point, and its whoefully less powerful than 150 gr 30/30. I doubt you've shot/used many lever-action rifles to make statements regarding accuracy and reliability. I sure won't be packing an SKS in my AOPS since there far better rifles to use.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you bought today for long term use, what would you buy and why? No doubt at all, the SKS all day long. The SKS is powerful, far more durable and reliable as well, and more accurate than most lever actions out there. FerFAL All commonly available 30/30 ammo is significantly more powerful than 7.62x39, and there is a wider selection of loads. The closest common denominator to typical 30/30 ammo is Tula 154 gr soft point, and its whoefully less powerful than 150 gr 30/30. I doubt you've shot/used many lever-action rifles to make statements regarding accuracy and reliability. I sure won't be packing an SKS in my AOPS since there far better rifles to use.. Avg on x39 is around 1500ft lbs/2200fps while basic Winchester power point 150gr (standard Wal-Mart offering) is 1900/2300+ but Winchester is pretty standard on their 150 offerings. The difference is gonna be bullet construction and performance down range. I've shot and hunted with both. When 30/30 was 6$ a box guess what gun I played John Wayne with. Fast accurate shots can be had. I've got dead deer to prove that. The sks being semi auto allows fast follow ups as well. The main differences is gun size..weight..and the terrain you plan to hunt/survive in. It I'm in my tree stand I may rock my 300wsm bolt gun. On foot doing stalk and stop style hunting ill grab my win 94....or if I feel the need to look cool ill grab The FR8. If I'm going on an area denial patrol I'd want the SKS..but would rather have my AK or an AR. Tools have certain applications. We have the ability to choose what we want here and now. We shouldn't short sell ourselves just because. Drop silly ideas of what guns look "friendly"..shtf.no matter the context a gun is a threat. Its a stupid view just like those who spew off the "if you wear camo or use a military pack your a target" carp. Not aimed at you taylan . Fernando has lived in countries with oppressive gun laws when compared to the United states . His whole adult life .Besides his love for glock ...I take his advice on firearms as he would mine on setting up a retirement fund. Our issue is not the forum but each persons idea...wait. opinion on what shtf/wrol/teotawki/skysfalling wtf ever should or can be. Being like that means we have a wide range of views and ideas. Ymmv etc etc |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 3:05:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm with you. Already have a 357 wheel gun..and carbine in 357 would be a great woods combo IMHO. But it'd be a "want " buy vs need. I love my 94 as posted earlier. But its not a primary choice shtf. I've got better tools in the tool chest. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just to add fuel to the discussion, during the last ammo scarcity, 30-30 ammo was always available but 7.62x39 was hard to find. I really like the .357 lever guns and this discussion has reignited the desire to have one. I'm going to have to find one somewhere. I'm with you. Already have a 357 wheel gun..and carbine in 357 would be a great woods combo IMHO. But it'd be a "want " buy vs need. I love my 94 as posted earlier. But its not a primary choice shtf. I've got better tools in the tool chest. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm looking at a .357 Rossi. Not the top of the line but a decent gun especially with some fairly inexpensive upgrades. I'd like a 16 inch barrel carbine. With a rifle and hot handloads, you can be looking at pushing 158 grain bullets around 1700+ FPS. Very few animals in N America that couldn't be taken with that load although range would definitely be limited compared to a rifle cartridge. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 3:13:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm looking at a .357 Rossi. Not the top of the line but a decent gun especially with some fairly inexpensive upgrades. I'd like a 16 inch barrel carbine. With a rifle and hot handloads, you can be looking at pushing 158 grain bullets around 1700+ FPS. Very few animals in N America that couldn't be taken with that load although range would definitely be limited compared to a rifle cartridge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just to add fuel to the discussion, during the last ammo scarcity, 30-30 ammo was always available but 7.62x39 was hard to find. I really like the .357 lever guns and this discussion has reignited the desire to have one. I'm going to have to find one somewhere. I'm with you. Already have a 357 wheel gun..and carbine in 357 would be a great woods combo IMHO. But it'd be a "want " buy vs need. I love my 94 as posted earlier. But its not a primary choice shtf. I've got better tools in the tool chest. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm looking at a .357 Rossi. Not the top of the line but a decent gun especially with some fairly inexpensive upgrades. I'd like a 16 inch barrel carbine. With a rifle and hot handloads, you can be looking at pushing 158 grain bullets around 1700+ FPS. Very few animals in N America that couldn't be taken with that load although range would definitely be limited compared to a rifle cartridge. Wonder what specs would be out of a 18-20-22 length barrel. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 5:31:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think they are going to let a free people own Ar15's forever? I have AR15's, just looking at 2nd and 3rd levels. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why isn't an AR an option? You think they are going to let a free people own Ar15's forever? I have AR15's, just looking at 2nd and 3rd levels. Do you think "They" are going to let a "Free" people own any type of firearm forever? |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 6:06:59 PM EDT
[#28]
SKS, 30-30, or an AR. They can all be had, or built for the same price.
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Posted: 4/27/2016 9:20:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Prob flogged enough already...
Talyn, I have only seen pics of Montana, but you probably have some ridiculous distances that favor the concept of a rife with a little more range. I get it. As far as effectiveness, .30 cal in the range we're talking about is "good enough" regardless of which one you choose. We're talking lower-end rifles with enough power to kill 2/4 legged game in N America. If you want to thump elk with authority, we're having the wrong conversation. As far as ammo choice, if you're prepping you are buying bulk. 30/30 doesn't lend itself to bulk sales and while it may be more common, the average joe is only going to have a few boxes of lever ammo and may give you a box or two. A guy who has a semi is "probably" buying in larger quantities and will "likely" offer up a lot more to share/sell. When the ammo pinch came, all the shelves were clear....all. We're talking local shops and walmarts. If you are serious, you buy by the case and you're buying ahead of time, not during a panic. Yes, top off when you see the opportunity, but buying one lot/case allows a better zero, establishes baseline reliability, consistent point of impact. I get tired of buying hunting ammo in various grain weights, projectiles, and brands and having to re-zero. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 11:22:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Western Montana and northern Idaho is heavily forested so long-range shooting isn't as much of a big deal as the eastern 3/4s of MT and the southern 2/3rds of Idaho.
Plenty of big game were killed with lower-powered cartridges before the arrival of cartridges like the 30/06 and 270 and since. But then again those folks knew how to hunt vs. now-a-days. Nowadays out-of-staters think they have to have the largest magnum possible and 99% of them can't hit the side of a barn with them. Less real hunting skills and more like long-range lead flingers. Again I think there are two different interpretations of "survival". The TEOWAKI crowd and the traditional approach. I'm well aware what happened during the panic, and as one poster said one could find more 30/30 than 7.62x39 at least here. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 4:46:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wonder what specs would be out of a 18-20-22 length barrel. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just to add fuel to the discussion, during the last ammo scarcity, 30-30 ammo was always available but 7.62x39 was hard to find. I really like the .357 lever guns and this discussion has reignited the desire to have one. I'm going to have to find one somewhere. I'm with you. Already have a 357 wheel gun..and carbine in 357 would be a great woods combo IMHO. But it'd be a "want " buy vs need. I love my 94 as posted earlier. But its not a primary choice shtf. I've got better tools in the tool chest. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm looking at a .357 Rossi. Not the top of the line but a decent gun especially with some fairly inexpensive upgrades. I'd like a 16 inch barrel carbine. With a rifle and hot handloads, you can be looking at pushing 158 grain bullets around 1700+ FPS. Very few animals in N America that couldn't be taken with that load although range would definitely be limited compared to a rifle cartridge. Wonder what specs would be out of a 18-20-22 length barrel. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I am no ballistics expert but the tables I have seen show that .357 bullets out of a barrel longer than 16 inches actually slow down....presumably due to the length. I suspect that a .357 cartridge is optimal out of a 16 inch barrel...at least for the most common loads. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:08:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Western Montana and northern Idaho is heavily forested so long-range shooting isn't as much of a big deal as the eastern 3/4s of MT and the southern 2/3rds of Idaho. Plenty of big game were killed with lower-powered cartridges before the arrival of cartridges like the 30/06 and 270 and since. But then again those folks knew how to hunt vs. now-a-days. Nowadays out-of-staters think they have to have the largest magnum possible and 99% of them can't hit the side of a barn with them. Less real hunting skills and more like long-range lead flingers. Again I think there are two different interpretations of "survival". The TEOWAKI crowd and the traditional approach. I'm well aware what happened during the panic, and as one poster said one could find more 30/30 than 7.62x39 at least here. Anyone who participates in a survival forum and buys ammo during a panic is doing something wrong. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:26:28 AM EDT
[#33]
I like the SKS but then again I'm a mil-surp guy.
Both should serve you well, the only thing that see see the lever gun being better at is optics. If they were cheaper, I would say a No.4 Enfield would be a fine choice. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 3:24:23 PM EDT
[#34]
during a SHTF scenario the best option is to have lots of options. That way you can shoot which ever one you have ammo for. I had a 30-30 and an SAR-1 before the boating accident and could have shot 7.62x39 or 30-30. Also had 300AAC, 5.56, and other calibers that I hear this debate on constantly. The best SHTF gun is the one you have ammo for and can shoot accurately. Now that said I am much more accurate with the 30-30, 300AAC, and 5.56. The 7.62x39 is just 100yd gun
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Posted: 4/28/2016 5:36:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the SKS but then again I'm a mil-surp guy. Both should serve you well, the only thing that see see the lever gun being better at is optics. If they were cheaper, I would say a No.4 Enfield would be a fine choice. I would agree with that. It would make a great truck gun. Just wish the ammo was more readily available locally. Inexpensive chargers would be nice too.......... |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 6:12:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would agree with that. It would make a great truck gun. Just wish the ammo was more readily available locally. Inexpensive chargers would be nice too.......... I think Wolf is getting into steel case .303 soon. I forget where I read that though. It will probably only be FMJ, but still. Essentially a 10 round Mosin with much better sights, fit and finish...I'd go for that! I've seen what a .303 can do to a warthog. It is nothing to scoff at! |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:55:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am no ballistics expert but the tables I have seen show that .357 bullets out of a barrel longer than 16 inches actually slow down....presumably due to the length. I suspect that a .357 cartridge is optimal out of a 16 inch barrel...at least for the most common loads. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just to add fuel to the discussion, during the last ammo scarcity, 30-30 ammo was always available but 7.62x39 was hard to find. I really like the .357 lever guns and this discussion has reignited the desire to have one. I'm going to have to find one somewhere. I'm with you. Already have a 357 wheel gun..and carbine in 357 would be a great woods combo IMHO. But it'd be a "want " buy vs need. I love my 94 as posted earlier. But its not a primary choice shtf. I've got better tools in the tool chest. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm looking at a .357 Rossi. Not the top of the line but a decent gun especially with some fairly inexpensive upgrades. I'd like a 16 inch barrel carbine. With a rifle and hot handloads, you can be looking at pushing 158 grain bullets around 1700+ FPS. Very few animals in N America that couldn't be taken with that load although range would definitely be limited compared to a rifle cartridge. Wonder what specs would be out of a 18-20-22 length barrel. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I am no ballistics expert but the tables I have seen show that .357 bullets out of a barrel longer than 16 inches actually slow down....presumably due to the length. I suspect that a .357 cartridge is optimal out of a 16 inch barrel...at least for the most common loads. Correct. But there's not much of a difference. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 2:47:45 PM EDT
[#38]
not sure of the relevance but the .357 is the more efficient of the bunch. it lends it's self well with lead bullets, uses the least amount of powder and broadest types of powders and as shown by buffalo bore it can match/exceed 30-30 power figures (barrel length for barrel length) with nearly half the powder of the 30-30 or 7.62. I myself find the self sustainability aspect most important when talking about "survival" so either have a bunch of ammo stacked away or a way to replenish it. a cheap lee hand press, a 2 cavity lee mold, tumble lube and dies would run under $100 add powder and primers and some lead (often able to find free or near free(dig a back stop, auto shops, scrap yards))
It is said that cartridges with a impact velocity below 2600 should be rated by the TKO factor vs lb/ft of energy. this puts all 3 on a very even playing field with the .357 with the heavies on the higher side at times. the trajectory with the .357 is more extreme and we all know shot placement trumps all. This can be combated with practice or limiting your distance on shots. I feel confident with a iron sighted .357 out to 150yds.I did have a 3 blade sight from a winchester 92 which was a nice addition. I recently got a 200gr mold that I want to try out. If they shoot well and I can get enough velocity out of them I plan to "poor man partition" them. basically cast a pure lead lighter weight bullet drop them in the mold with the mold in the melt, once they melt you poor your harder alloy in making a bonded soft point with a hard shank that will handle the velocity/pressure. this should make a nice deep penetrating expanding bullet. you could always test and adjust your first alloy to get the desired expansion/weight retention. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 2:52:03 PM EDT
[#39]
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Wonder what specs would be out of a 18-20-22 length barrel. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just to add fuel to the discussion, during the last ammo scarcity, 30-30 ammo was always available but 7.62x39 was hard to find. I really like the .357 lever guns and this discussion has reignited the desire to have one. I'm going to have to find one somewhere. I'm with you. Already have a 357 wheel gun..and carbine in 357 would be a great woods combo IMHO. But it'd be a "want " buy vs need. I love my 94 as posted earlier. But its not a primary choice shtf. I've got better tools in the tool chest. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm looking at a .357 Rossi. Not the top of the line but a decent gun especially with some fairly inexpensive upgrades. I'd like a 16 inch barrel carbine. With a rifle and hot handloads, you can be looking at pushing 158 grain bullets around 1700+ FPS. Very few animals in N America that couldn't be taken with that load although range would definitely be limited compared to a rifle cartridge. Wonder what specs would be out of a 18-20-22 length barrel. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile 14-16" maximizes the cartridge velocity wise. with factory ammo not much velocity is gained past this point. with handloads with heavier bullets and slower powders more can be gained but the fps per inch still drops off considerably after the 14-16" threshold. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 2:56:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Bought a 1962 Winchester 94 in excellent condition for $299. Could not pass it up for the price, the 30-30 caliber, the handiness, the effectiveness and the minimal concern that it would be banned anytime in the future.
Pain to load, no chance of a good scope mount and slow rate of fire. Overall, with practice, it will be something that may get stowed in the truck for trips up to camp. |
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Posted: 5/2/2016 12:56:30 AM EDT
[#41]
I have an SKS w/ 20 round Chinese fixed mag and a synthetic stock. The trigger is terrible. I am thinking about sending it off to be fixed up. The trigger group falls out occasionally because a monkey owned it before I did and slightly damaged it.
I like the SKS, but I also have a Marlin 30-30 I like too. The lever action is shorter and handier. I envision the SKS as a great "bug in" rifle. I always said if I was defending a fortified position, I would choose an SKS over an AK. You can get low on cover with it, the recoil impulse is smooth and I much prefer the sights. If I am on the move though, the 30-30 is lighter and more compact. It's got more power and range. I have been thinking hard about a 16 inch Rossi .357 carbine. More ammo capacity, lighter, still plenty of power! |
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