Who could buy a Hellcat and not drive it, seriously  

Minor point - due to Greece's membership in the Euro, not the EU.  Membership in the EU is their saving grace, as their citizens can seek work legally in any EU country, from Poland to Ireland & from Finland to Spain.

Foreclosers are different from exercising a demand clause. On top of that, how many mortgages even have a demand clause?

As for farms, that really isn't relevant to the vast majority of the population, but if you happen to have a farm that's something to consider. We were talking about homes and that's really all that I'm familiar with.

Right, but I was just giving real world example of how people will ALWAYS be interested in property, no matter the current economic climate.

 

Y'all realize Iran just got $652,500,000 in gold delivered?


The powers that be are squabbling about 1/4 that money in loans to Greece.

My point - we are alot further down the rabbit hole than they want you to believe. They just bribed a terrorist regime to not start a war with real money. The Greeks are never ever going to pay their debts, because they know that the money they owe isn't of any real value. What are they going to do? Go to war to get it back?

Not the UN... Fuck no... They are payin in gold.

.
Seems to me...
You guys who are are talking about Greeks stockpiling cash in Euros as a hedge against a demonetization of Euros and reissue in drachmas (or whatever they decide to call it)  in Greece:
Whether or not Euros have value (outside of Greece) following such a move is going to depend on where they were printed.  Won't take long before those Greek printed and minted Euros have zero value in trade simply because nobody will accept them.
Might not be right or legal, but the Greek money will lose it's value, and your average Greek citizen better have some of the German, French, BeNeLux, etc. printed currency stockpiled if he wants to have any spending power at all.



Anybody else ever in London and told that Bank of Scotland 5 pound note wasn't acceptable?
Maybe somebody can explain to me why I am wrong about this.
 

Pretty sure the payment due yesterday was $1.6 billion. That's...

$1,600,000,000 - almost 2.5 times more than...
$652,500,000

The overall Greek debt is roughly...
$365,000,000,000

Greeks can't print euros. They could confiscate euros and force them to be traded for a new currency (drachma).

 

I have four rolls of Silver dimes and 4 ounces of gold in my BOB-PM's are great-If they are with you-If they turn out as use less and know one will take
as payment or trade?

Fuck it

Paper money is worthless at that point, and I have lost some buying power,

If its valuable then I have that buying power on my person

I can throw it on the ground and walk away, its only money

Comes into and out of every life all the time

It has happened, somewhat.

Look at Venezuela's break from the Peso.
WTF I can't find this anywhere.

What SA country closed the banks and split from the Peso overnight?

You carry $5k worth of PMs in your BOB???

 

Doesn't seem excessive to me per say. If it gets to BOB time then you can count on stuff being crazy expensive. However,I would likely opt for some silver dollars and quarters and less gold. Why? Well my pawn shop experience tells me that 99% of people have never seen gold but they all know what a silver dollar is and they all know they have value. In fact most believe them to be more valuable than they are. Also a surprising number understand junk silver

If you waited until paper money is useless to get out your BOB, you've done messed up.

Look at every economic crash in history. The first weeks and months are cash only. No one in Greece or south america is taking gold for food or fuel.

Before the money becomes worthless, good become expensive. You'd be much better off with $400 cash.

If your carrying 4k in gold you probably have over 1k in paper.

 

That's good.

I think a roll of quarters for vending machines will be 10x more useful than an oz of gold for a BOB, though. JMO YMMV.

Take that 4k and buy an acre of land. It'll serve you better in the long run.

I'm guessing that when the New Drachmas inflate quickly in the next few weeks, lots of Greeks are going to decide to move to another EU country and either seek employment or go on the local Welfare program.  Those other EU countries aren't going to be amused, and that will lead to Greece being forced out of the European Union.

Yes I understand how it works and in fact that's quite my point.  Greeks are going to start flooding other member nations now looking for work and I guarantee you that despite all the greatness and promises these career socialist politicians talked about when creating this huge superstate that those nations will not like it one bit.  EU politicians do this stuff for a career and they enjoy jerking each other off thinking of new ways to control peoples lives in building their socialist superstate.  When those people demand to work in other member nations and they are refused (and you know damn well it's going to happen), then shit's going to start getting real and people are going to start protesting EU policies that were supposed to be advantageous to them.  Greece is going to leave on their own or get kicked out; other nations like Italy and Portugal will then start prepping for similar situations.  Germany, France and such will try to keep the bread and circuses going as long as possible to protect this super socialist crap....Russia/China will be waiting in the midst to offer favorable trading to those who leave.



 

Are you sure about that? Ferfal, can we get a first hand account of if gold or silver would have been accepted during your SHTF experience?

IIRC, they sold gold to get currency, but direct trading is rare. I recall reading one of his blog entries.

Again, though, do the research. It's EXTREMELY rare.

If I were ever in such a position, no way in hell I'm ever actually using gold or silver coin for currency with someone to do business.  You never know what sort of nutcase they are and decide that if you've got a few coins now, you must have others hidden somewhere, and voila, you're kidnapped, beaten, tortured and whatever else.

 

The same could be said for money, though.

My reasoning is simple.

How much gold is a gallon of gas? How much is a chicken or a 200cc motor? It's entirely arbitrary, and you can't actually USE gold or silver for anything.

If I have something of value, and there is no economy to speak of, WTF am I gonna do with a bar of metal? I'd rather trade.

PMs are good for preserving wealth. When the economy rebuilds, there will be a new currency, and it will have a PM conversion rate. Then I'll trade my PMs for cash.

Flawless logic.

The same could be applied to any "nutcase" and any other item.  Example:  That nutcase saw me with a hammer, decided I had another hidden somewhere, and voila - I was kidnapped, beaten, tortured and whatever else."  Insert any item you want - pudding pops, children, cemetery markers.  Or checkbook money.  Or fiat currency.  Wow.

FerFAL (you know, the guy who actually wrote a book based on his real life economic collapse experiences) actually talked about the danger of using a gold coin for trade/barter.  He recommended small amounts of gold (pieces or links from a bracelet) to minimize your profile.

So, yeah ... I'm not taking a gold coin to town for barter.

Bcauz3y is right ... if you have 10-100k in cash sitting around, buy land.  If you have some 'extra' then buy a coin to convert to the 'new currency' when the dust settles.

TRG

Didn't he say the family converted the gold links to currency at the pawn shop then used the money for food?

I can't remember.

Well holy fuck- that's insane.

Thank you. That's just - insane

That seems like a much more sensible approach to PMs for SHTF.

For sure. Assuming such a place exists that will do the conversion.

Except that it takes a lot of gold links to add up to anything. I help my buddy in his pawn shop and now work there on Saturdays and worked there full time for a couple of years. Bring me silver coins or gold bullion. I will take rings and necklaces, but I have to send that off to be melted, hence it won't bring a whole lot. Bullion I keep and /or resell. I have never been to Argentina, though I really want to, but I can guarantee that our collapse is starting from a different point. Hell my wedding band is fairly heavy and it would only bring about $40. That is not much food.

Holding some type of real assets will be far better than having a drug-dealer style shoebox-o-money. During an economic crisis, inflation can turn that $100k into $5k in a few years, no government devaluation needed.

In Venezuela a popular investment is used cars. It's a easy way to store a few thousand dollars, protect it from inflation, and somewhat easy to turn back into cash.

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agree

Trust me even in Venezuela a fat wad of dollars  is better. I once met  a guy from Venezuela that shot a couple criminals, one of them in the back as he escaped.... 2000 usd cash got him off the hook.

FerFAL

Exactly what sort of collapse are you envisioning? At what point are we using gold instead of USD, and how much is gold worth in reflation?

But if the US dollar was the currency that had collapsed, it wouldn't have had nearly the same bargaining power.

I'm in the "durable goods" category.  Most of my $ is in land, tools, clothing, food and things to store food (canners, dehydrators, freezers) or make food production easier (drip irrigation and whatnot).  If I've worn the same size jeans for 20 years, I don't see a problem with buying 20 pairs to stick on the shelf.  Nothing's getting any cheaper, and every dollar I spend now is one less that I'll have to spend in retirement - or if/when TSHTF.  And I'm guessing today's dollar bought more of it than 2030's dollar will.

I do have a bit in PM's, mainly pre-'65 silver coins.  I do think those would have trade value in a worst-case scenario; they're not as easy as some here are making it out to counterfeit, easily recognizable, and fairly available to the general population.  Wherever there's trade, there has to be some token to represent wealth... straight trading of goods for goods is too complicated.  Silver fills that niche pretty well... not too valuable to be useful in everyday trade, easily transportable, and almost more trouble than it's worth to try and counterfeit.

Today's dollar is based completely on smoke and mirrors.  Everybody should have a few month's bills worth of cash to get through the real emergencies that we're likely to face, but for long-term, gen-u-wine EOTWAWKI, "stuff" and skills is where it's at.

___
ETA: another benefit of the "buy now" strategy is that I can afford to be picky, and buy when things are at the cheapest price point I'm likely to see.  In 2030, I won't be able to tell the difference between the $40 jeans I had to run out and buy because I ripped a pair, and the ones that I bought back in '15 for $10/ea. as an Amazon Flash Deal.  Except that I'll have thirty bucks more to put towards my property taxes or whatever.

Well, who knows. In my paranoid head I imagine a time when the paper dollar is based on nothing, has no backing at all except the financial health of a single country.

Then I imagine sheeple finally figuring this out and the value of that dollar fluctuating wildly up and down and devalued and who knows what else. At the end of the day I know for a fact that gold and silver will have value.

Am I saying switch every dollar you have to metal? No way. But I take gold and silver for payment even now. I am back to building houses again, you can pay me in gold, no problem.

But when the economy really starts tanking and you need something from me, something I have plenty of...say lumber...don't bring me paper.

That's true, but the problem is, it's very hard to get that much USD in Venezuela because of all the currency exchange restrictions the government has implemented. So people buy and hold actual stuff as a way to preserve wealth.

(Btw, nobody is interested in buying a used canner, dehydrator, or drip irrigation line.)

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im definately not a expert on financial shtf....the only things i really know about things like this are from history.. ( us great depression... bank failures, bank holidays.. gold confiscations, and the failures of other countries finances, weimar republic, zimbabwe, etc. . but personally if i was worried about the gov failing, and bank holidays.. ( which i am, its my BIGGEST fear, other than a tornado, ).

my likely really bad event list..

1. gov default.. financial type..
2. nuke war...... always seems to be likely..
3. natural disaster.. .. with tornado as likely.... and comet impact less likely.

id try to do the following....

this is about all the average person can do... if you see a financial collapse around the bend. i have done most of this to some degree.

1. keep cash on hand.... if the bank has a holiday, you will need some cash....although credit cards would probably work.... but same goes for disasters that take out communications.. and power... credit / debit wont work... cash is king.   dont keep everything in one account either... a compromised debit card / check / account could leave you penniless for a month until the bank fixes it... keep  bank accounts in seperate banks.. this gives you options, if something is compromised.... also keep money at home... and some on you for emergencies as well.. ( say.. $1000.00-$3000.00 at home.( for some operating cash)  ... and $100-$200 stuffed under the dash of your car..( for emergencies, / buying gas / food to get home if caught out, or robbed, etc.... .. and a emergency $100 folded up in your wallet someplace, in case your suddenly on foot, and debit / credit worthless. ).
 
2. have as little debt as possible...try not to have huge car payments, a huge house payment, and live paycheck to paycheck......... the less payments you have, the less you have to be worried about, and the fewer people who will be demanding their stuff back, and coming to your house to get it. .  i PERSONALLY,  doubt the gov would allow banks to foreclose on homeowners who were late on their mortgages in a collapse...thus dumping MILLIONS of even angrier people into the streets. with all the fsa ideas floating around, i  figure we would at LEAST get a hold order on forclusures... IMHO...

3. if your worried about the currency going bust..... storing silver / gold would be a good bet.... silver could be redeemed towards the new currency, no matter what it is. im thinking of stories like in enemies foreign and domestic, where they abandon the dollar, and go to the new currency... you have x amount of days to convert... and 10 old bucks gets you 1 new buck.. in a case like that, having your $100.000.00 in cash would suck... as now its worth $10.000.00... but silver SHOULD still have a exchange rate thats hopefully favorable...if not favorable towards the new money, it should be favorable towards SOMEONES money....  definately be better than the old vs new currency.

4. store food....... you will feel a hell of a lot less stress with a full pantry... and you dont need to immediately run to the store for food, cause you dont have anything to eat... and fight crowds of people for it..... being able to stay put at home would be great... vs fighting panicing hordes of people.

5. storing some fuel does the same thing.... you have a buffer, that can keep you going, where your not absolutely dependent on a gas station for a while.


these are just my basic, simplistic ideas.. that i believe would go far towards helping you. basically try to have a plan, basic preps seem to fit well into almost ANY emergency....

im working hard towards being 100% debt free.... having land and a home paid for.... living on a paid off property would be a huge relief.... then hunkering down, gardening, raising rabbits, chickens and goats for food.... ( hunting if possible)   fishing, etc.... then freezing, or smoking, / drying your food for the winter. and just trying to survive, and wait.. hoping things can get running again...

heres a question about a basic bank mortgage.. its a contract... you owe the bank $100.000.00  to pay for your house.

what would happen if we had hyper inflation, where $1.00 is now almost worthless..... and your employer for instance.... suddenly starts paying you $10.000.00 a week instead of $300.00   due to currency devaluation? say like zombabwe??  suddenly you get paid on friday, with a single $100.000 bill...   could you take it to the bank... hand it over, and be " paid in full on your home loan???  

do they have language in those contracts to prevent something like that??  say we go to a new currency....etc... and suddenly you have a chunk of cash.. ala weimer republic, wheelbarrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread situation........ could your bank " change" your mortgage to prevent you from paying it off with the now worthless money thats being handed out by the truck loads?

thats my thinking..... grow food, raise rabbits / chickens / goats etc...... i might not have cash to buy the part my tractor needs because suddenly its too expensive for me..... but foods expensive as hell as well...... i might be able to barter ( expensive assed food..... for my tractor part..... if i didnt have the cash for it).. guy who owns the kubota store, still needs to eat, and a load of vegies, eggs, steaks, etc, would be a attractive trade if food was hard to come by / expensive...

not something im PLANNING ON.... but something that might work if hyper inflation hit, and everyone was broke.

Theoretically, yes, you would pay off your mortgage with that one payment.

In normal times, that is what sort of happens.
My father bought a home in the mid 1970's with a 30yr fixed rate loan,
by the late 80's/early 90's he was able to pay it off early,

Inflation had raised his salary to the point where the mortgage payment became one of his lowest monthly bills.
Instead of using his extra money to buy crap, he put in towards paying off the mortgage.

The problem is, in a hyper-inflation scenario, I can see the .gov allowing a change to the mortgage contract to help themselves and the bankers.
If a country were to issue a "new" currency, there would probably be some kind of refinancing legislation to go with it, again, I doubt the .gov would want to take the "hit"

Also, variable rate interest loans,
i.e. credit cards, variable interest mortgages would be very bad as interest rates on them could/would skyrocket.

i believe ferfal mentioned storing cheap gold rings or something..say you were wanting to sell your wedding ring, or something, and get the cash for the gold.. $100-$200 etc... .. then you could exchange a ring for money, or food, or fuel, or cash..... and it not look like you were rich, by hauling in a 1oz gold coin., worth $1500.00 etc...

i think it would just depend on the person..... i had a woman come into a gas station once where i was working.... she was broke, and was trying to get home.. she needed a tank of gas.... she offered me a gold necklace for $50.00.. big heavy thing. i filled her car up, and gave her $25.00 in cash.. ( all i had on me).. the next day i sold it to a pawn shop for $200.00 .    you could exchange gold / silver for food or gas today.. if the person who owns the store, or running the register is interested.

financial collapse, people will be trying to trade all kinds of things for fuel, food , money, or things they need. the only people who would be totally unwilling to trade food for gold.... are people who are on the verge of starvation... and have no way to get anything for the gold your trying to trade.  thats the ONLY time people would refuse trading food for gold.... thats if food is REALLY hard to get at any price, and they would rather just have the food, or they would likely starve if they gave it to you.

it would be a long time, and really bad situations all around if food was that scarce. your talking some very severe event.  ala " the road".. type situation. hell, in mad max they would trade you dog, or rat steaks for gold.

Up until 1920 a GBP half crown coin was made of sterling silver, then until 1947 those smae British coins were 50% silver. Today, that silver is still there and those coins stil have their silver content value, plus a bit (or in same cases a lot) of extra numisamatic value if the coins are in good shape.
I buy silver as much as anyone else but my recommendation would be to make the extra efford, be patient, and but gold whenever possible, 1/10 oz coins. Its much more compact and if you ever have to leave on a hurry you'll be able to take a lot more. Silver gets very heavy, very fast, even for us little guys that buy just a bit at a time.



Ammo's great but no, every time the economy crashes both average people and investors go ot gold for shelter.



In a way its good that they dont have thier own currency. They would have inflated the hell out of it by now like it happens everywhere else. Its so easy to just print some more. I think that's what they0ll eventually end up doing if they leave the EU. Maybe they have something cooked up with Russia...

FerFAL

Sorry for the dealy in getting back. Yes, of course gold and silver were valuable during the Argentine collaspe. PM stuck to its international prices as the local currency fell, with gold and silver becoming as "expensive" as USd or Euros as time went by. As for being accepted, you could sell it in smaller stores like the ones you see with "we buy gold/silver" signs on most towns, usually jewelry stores, but you got a much better price selling at an actual PM broking house or selling to banks that specialize in precious metals and foreign currency.
FerFAL

Ok, a couple things. Yes of course gold and silver keep their value as the local fiat currency goes to hell. It happened in Argentina just like it happens every time paper money which has no intrinsic value falls along with the currency that backs it up. You couldn’t go into walmart and buy a drill with a few silver eagle coins but you could easily sell those at a precious metal and currency broker or bank that deals with precious metals.
You would usually sell your PM a little bit at a time and quickly spend that money, because it kept going up in price along with inflation. You just sold as much gold (or traded as much Usd currency) as you expected to spend trying not to get stuck with local currency because it would be worth less in a matter of days, even hours.  The “we buy gold/silver” stores, those usually were looking to buy jewelry and junk gold and silver from rather desperate people. That’s not where you would have gone to sell a gold eagle, not if you wanted a somewhat fair price.
About the gold chain and links being sold, that wasn’t me, that’s was my wife’s great grandparents during the war in Italy. When we left Argentina my MIL gave my wife several pieces of jewelry. One of those was a rather short chain, a bracelet actually. That gold chain didn’t start as a bracelet though, it started as a necklace, but during the war her family would sell small pieces of it, a few links at a time selling gold when they needed money. Now, this is something I mentioned in my book because I thought it made perfect sense to have some junk gold besides proper recognized bullion and sell bits of it if needed in a local market. As long as you had bought that junk gold for the price of its metal content it made sense. You could just drop by one of these gold dealers, cut a few links and sell them. Sure, the price you would be wouldn’t be great but still you could haggle around a bit. It was actually years after publishing my book and mentioning this as a possibility that I learned that my wife’s great grandmother had done just that. Pure coincidence. If you want to see that little gold chain, I did a video explaining it and talking about gold. Sorry for the awful audio and crappy accent though.

My advice would be this:
-Have cash first. At least a month worth of expenses in cash. You’ll need it anyway even if the currency is going to hell simply because at first cash is exactly wahts hard to come by. Happened in Argentina, happening right now in Greece, happened elsewhere too. Cash is king.
-Two or three months of cash isnt a bad idea, just make sure you have a good safe to keep it in and one that is well hidden. After that you want to go for precious metals. Silver works great, but gets heavy. One important aspect of survivalism and one that get me in a lot of trouble every time I mention it here is that sometimes you just have to leave. Your town, state or country entirely. Its not optional, its just what you do when you have no other choice. If that moment comes, you will have to travel light. People escaping eastern Ukraine learned this the hard way. So did millions of immigrants, refugees, etc. My advice is to have well recognized gold in small denomination format, 1/10oz. These have several advantages. Its easier for you to buy them in the first place, its easier to conceal, its easier to pay for stuff with them rather than putting an axe or knife to a nice 10z gold eagle. Besides that, these are hardly ever counterfeited which is something that has happened with1oz coins and large gold bars. This is what you would use for the bulk of your PM, well recognized gold coins. At the same time, I think it makes sense to have junk silver and junk gold. These two our society is already used to seeing change hands. People sell gold jewelry and junk sivler coins, its already expected to happen and if you have a small bag of junk PM you can sell some when you want to do it without much loss depending on a)how much you need to sell b)where you are selling. The average street junk PM dealer such as pawn shops will hardly give you a fair price, so you’re better off selling him junk gold or silver anyway and keeping the more serious stuff for when you come across a proper PM broker.
So you have cash, you have PM. If you still have money left after taking care of those two, I would look into investing in thing such as real estate, also look into opening a foreign bank account which can be a very powerful tool for avoiding disasters like the one hitting Greece right now.

FerFAL

QFT

I agree with having the durable goods you expect to need for a reasonable time into the future.

As far as I know EVERY CURRENCY at this point is based on nothing but someone's willingness to accept it.
Even if a currency is based on a metal, that metal has no intrinsic value other than how it can actually be used to produce something useful to a person or industry.
Steel and iron would be more useful than Gold or Silver in a barter economy. At least a person can make weapons or useful structures with it.
Depending on how far down an economy goes will determine if a "token of wealth" will be accepted instead of something that is actually useful.


As far as devaluation, if that occurs everyone will be hurt so having large sums of cash on hand will not be a negative. All of the currency will be worth less. At least a person will have access to their money and it will not be confiscated to pay off the banks bills such as in Cyprus.
At the current average .01% interest rate it makes no since to have that money out of your possession and at risk in a bank.

If there isn't a clause for that, I'm sure the .gov will step in and retroactively "add" it to the mortgage to save their banking buddies.

 

As a point of correction, I didn't say that.

 

Getting back to Greece a bit, in my opinion, Greece is already out of the EU now it's just a matter of formalizing it.   Either Greece ends up accepting whatever the last minute terms were (I forget) or they just sit there in limbo kinda like they are now.  I don't really see either of these happening.  I do see it as more likely that Greece's parliament passes laws to starting printing their own money again.  So yes, if Greece could print their own money, hell yes they'd do it and inflate the hell out of it in the process.  The Greek .gov stooges look at it as that would buy them at least another month of breathing room.  



But by Greece passing a law to print their own money again, that's pretty much it.  They will either exit the EU or they'll get kicked out  because there's no way in hell the EU is going to accept new drachmas or whatever as payment for that massive amount of debt.  Italy and Portugal I guarantee you are taking notes on this for what they'll potentially do different.  



I will admit and give Greece some credit though...they are essentially the tail that's wagging the dog.



 

I think that has a lot to do with it... Greece really being just the tail I mean. With the country going to hell the Euro has barely dropped. If that had been Spain, France, Germany or Itraly it would have been bye bye EU. Who knows, maybe getting rid of one of the weaker links actually makes the EU stronger.
FerFAL

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned up to this point is what happened to the Cypriots. The .gov there just decided to steal some of everybody's money, in some cases a whole lot of some people's money (the filthy rich, of course, in typical commie-pinko fashion). Greece could VERY easily be looking at precisely the same situation.

As I see it, there are really only two ways of dealing with that kind of sanctioned theft (other than exterminating the leaders of the .gov gone rogue). First, you could transfer all of your money to an out-of-country bank, which is what many of the Russians who had lots of money in Cyprus did. The problem there is the US has its tentacles in virtually every other country's banking system and could (and would) find a way to "repatriate" your fair share. Second, you could buy gold and silver and raise your middle finger at the thieving ba$tards. Or, as some have suggested, buy land really quick, if that's possible. Note that a LOT of Chinese businessmen have been buying real estate in the US because they don't trust the Chinese banking system or the .gov there. But it takes time to buy land, time you may or may not have.

If the financial collapse is imminent and/or immediate, buying gold may be the only option as that can be done the fastest, particularly if you already have a relationship with a local dealer. The problem may be extracting your funds out of your various accounts (particularly things like IRA/401Ks and the like) and/or conducting transfers from your account to your gold dealer's account. My local dealer here only takes cash. I'm pretty sure if we were to suddenly see a bank run, that the ability to extract your money in actual cash is going to be highly restricted, just like it is in Greece right now (and Cyprus before that, and Argentina before that, etc.).

I guess my main point being have a plan for how you plan to extract your wealth from the banking system quickly, should the need arise to do so. I'm of the opinion that gold is a compact media for the storage of wealth and silver is a compact medium of exchange (or what we used to call "currency"). If it looks like a total financial system failure is underway, the only way to save even a fraction of your life's savings is to convert it to something the .gov cant restrict access to- gold, silver, and other physical objects that will retain their value in the short term. Long term, gold conversion to the "new imperial dollar" would likely be required and would be reasonable, given that the market would price the conversion ratio, not the .gov.

Some people seem to forget the US restricted gold ownership in the past.