You mean besides the Great Depression, and more recently, the Great Recession? There was also the depression of the 1890s. I think maybe a study of US economic history would do you some good.

You might be on to something...

Conversely, maybe we should all just believe our dear leaders...our wonderful, honest, law-abiding politicians who tell us everything is going to be fine!  After all, they are doing a wonderful job looking out for us peasants, and therefore we have nothing to fear.  



If you don't believe our government agents, then obviously you're a "right-wing-nut job" who's out on the fringes of society...



So...no worries, the politicians and goldman-sachs have assured us lowly middle-class taxpayers, that everything is fine.  We may have to pony up a little more cash (for more malt liquor and EBT cards)  to keep the lower-echelon masses at bay, but uncle sugar promises to employ us making airplanes, roads, and prisons, so we'll have plenty of opportunities...so it's all good!

This would be funny if it were not so true. Right on, brother.

I wouldn't go as far as saying everything is fine. let's just say everything is going according to the plan, their plan. An end of the world event with massive deaths and complete collapse of society is not in their plans. It makes no financial sense so why allow that to happen.You don't kill your slaves, you make them work for you for as long as you can.
FerFAL

Don't think for a second that society today is anything like the society in the 30s.  Fuck, there was a moral compass in those days and you missed my point.
I'm talking about surviving AFTER the collapse which is well under way.  We have a collapse of social skills, education, common sense, moral values, family values,
community values.  Our food supply is all processed, our fruits and vegetables are all modified and don't even produce usable seeds. 95% of people couldn't perform CPR or stitch someone up.
We're completely dependent on government rather than our community.  Most of us don't know the neighbor 2 doors down from us.  100 years ago we were dependent on each other and
helped each other out of the goodness of our hearts.  Different world today.

Its true that family unitiy has been under attack for the last  60 years or so but People in USA are far more likely to know their neighbors than in Europe, far more generous and kind with one another. In Europe its very common to find people that dont know thier neighbors last name, and they've been living in the same place for 20 years. There's a LOT of folks like that around here. While it happens in Americas too, it sure isnt as common.
FerFAL

I guarantee its very common here too, much more so  than years past.  It has to do with the overwhelming amount of media
and electronic devices that consume our lives...no need for interaction with a neighbor anymore.  I just moved about a month ago after 15 years
in the same house.  I am in a much more dense neighborhood now.  You know how many neighbors welcomed us?  1, the people next door.  That's pathetic.
You know how many of those neighbors would be knocking on my door in a SHTF scenario if they knew I had food?  All of them.

Another fact to consider, during the great depression 90% of the population lived in rural farm areas and only 10% in the cities and people stilled starved.
Today those numbers are reversed.

My grandmother lived in a farm in Spain during the civil war. It wasnt exaclty a walk in the park. One day I sat down with her and did her a proper interview, asking what it was like.
Their farm was one of the "better off" ones because they had a well, which not everyone had. Other people had to go to the river, or get water from a nieghbor with a well, like the one they had. When she visited the city, she told me she would look thorugh the windows in bakearies when in the city, dreaming about eating those cakes and pastries. Food was rationed during the civil war and even for people in farms there wasnt a lot to go around.
I asked her "But grandma, there's a guy in ar15 survival forum that says people in farms that produce food live like kings during hard times!"
My grandma told me "oh, dear, your friend over at ar15 survival forum is full of shit. Tell him that it was HARD work, and we didnt have much to show for it either. Yes, we grew potatoes, we went fishing, but we had to sell a lot of it to buy the things we didnt produce, like supplies, food for the animals, even food for ourselves like flour and oil. Same for the animals, we had hens, eggs, but those we also had to sell and we couldnt just eat it all. Money was hard to come by. I was a teacher and taught to read and write to the children in my village and nearby houses, their parents paid a bit of money and provided a meal as well. Eventually I moved to the city and worked in a factory. We made glass beads, you know, for jewelry and decoration".
The part about ar15 forum knowitalls isnt true, but the rest is a pretty accurate quoatition of the conversation I had with my grandma. She's 91 years old, I miss her greatly.
FerFAL

Who on AR15 says that people on the farms lived like kings?

His jab at anyone who moves to a rural location (city vs rural shtf argument)  Fernando doesn't follow the self sufficient /reliant way that many not only those who are "survivalist "but homesteaders /people who live green self sustainable life's etc.
Like his grandma pointed out its hard work to go that route in life full time. Many over look that part of any of the above lifestyles.
Most take the easy routes...buying stockpiles of "stuff "..as an insurance policy vs life change. Why tend to chickens or till a large garden when you could vacation in (insert location) ..why commute to work...when you can live in the burbs /cookie cutter mcmansion ...why be financially smart when a click of the mouse and a credit card gets a ton of food to your door.
While there's a SHIT ton of crap that Fernando writes about....that I disagree with .his grandma has a very valid point....



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Cant remember, but I do remember a poster here saying he'd trade his chiken eggs for bars of gold when city folk show up starving at his door. This of course is supposed to happen... after SHTF... or after TEOTWAWKI.
You're also supposed to stop advancing infantry by digging in real deep in your homested, but that's only if you're a real badass survivalist packing Colt 1911 Gold Cup pistols.
FerFAL

Maybe its the same Guy that said stocking stuff like toilet paper and tools etc was stupid...............

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I remember what my dad used to say about the Great Depression. He was a youngster in a house with 6 kids. During the winter, he got sent out with a bucket to go walk the railroad tracks to pick up whatever coal would fall off the coal train cars (he was in Pennsylvania) so they could heat their house. He would say "A loaf of bread was only 25 cents, the problem was finding a quarter." My wife's parents were of similar age and remember there only being one person in the house with 3 families that was employed. Everybody had to "tighten their belt". Back then, many families of multi-generations lived in the house as it was the only way they could afford it. Now, it's very rare to have more than one family living in a house and it's rare to have more than the current generation in the house. And, families are far more widely dispersed than they were then because we're a much more mobile, connected society now.

To say that the US could not experience a rapid collapse is incorrect. According to the testimony during the congressional whitewash, er, "inquiry" on the financial crisis, it was stated that the "liquidity" in the system was being zapped by massive outflows of capital and redemptions from money market shares/funds. Supposedly, had the glorious Fed not stepped in with billions of dollars, the whole financial system was within hours of collapse - a so-called "full stop" where nobody would be sending money to anybody because they couldn't be sure the receiving party would reciprocate with funds destined for them. In today's world, if there is no trust, there is no commerce, and trust is a fleeting thing, especially when it has been shown that many of the institutions we depend upon have shown themselves not to be trustworthy. Don't think for an instant that if a substantial number of the 241 TRILLION in derivatives held by the top 4 banks in the US fire off, that they would have any hesitation at all to "vaporize" (ala MF Global) YOUR money on deposit to cover their losses to each other. And, if that does happen, the FDIC will only have a teaspoon to bail out from a tsunami. As to what might trigger such a catastrophe, there are several unlikely possibilities and several likely possibilities. In the likely column there are things like (yet another) war, another major terrorist attack on the US, trade war with China, Middle East oil barrons no longer accepting dollars for oil, or one or two of the big banks getting caught on the wrong side of one of the many, many leveraged gambles they make every day.

One could argue that a financial system collapse isn't the same as the country itself collapsing ala Yugoslavia. We as a country do not have the kind of ethnic concentrations that would be necessary for that kind of breakup. However, there would be a short time period where, in the immediate aftermath of a Blight on America/JP MorganChaseyYourTail/Well's Dry,Fargo/$hittyGroup/GoldmanSux collapse, most people would be going "YEAH! Wall Street FINALLY gets theirs!!" right up to the point where they go to get money out of the ATM and can't. Then they run by their local bank branch, and it's closed.Then they go to Wallyworld to buy beer and bread and their card is declined right after they just got paid. After 2-3 days, most everybody would have woken up to the fact that they are totally hosed. Then the real fun would start....Not!

And I hate multicam ...

As GD would say ....I see what ya did....lmao

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So...no fun....we all live happily ever after once shtf....well fuck me....


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Ferfal...

  Blah Blah Blah...

Arfcom...

 

Ferfal...



Protus...



Expy...

I only act like I'm sleeping ....:p
Now pass that bottle...LOL

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A national bank holiday lasting longer than 2 weeks would lead to widespread panic and riots as people simply don't have cash on hand for normal purchases much less emergency ones or for an inflationary environment.

Having silver and gold bars or coins might help to the degree a barter partner knows the going exchange rate but even then it's to mitigate not solve your problems.

Since most of us are not Swiss Family Robinson with a 400 ton ship's worth of stuff and an uninhabited tropical paradise to call our own, we can only hope to save up a few months worth of cash or savings (assuming you can access those savings) and a few months worth of consumables (food, tp, feminine products, medicine etc.). The rest of our needs have to be covered by some type of earning gaining some type of script through which to buy consumables as we need it.

Even in Zimbabwe there appears to be an economy - it's not cash based and people do starve but as far as I know millions still eke out an existence there. So for my purposes - to survive - I'm looking not a stockpiling things (as important as that is) or just skill sets (again, important) but especially looking at forging friendships, alliances, connections, networks of people whom one knows at least and so it's a complete stranger to. Come hell or high water, humanity survives mostly because of mutual cooperation for money or for values or a mix of both.

The future cannot be attained by rugged individuals being individuals. It'll come by marriage, family, clan, circles of close friends, larger groups grown organically around religion, ideology, some core affiliations and beliefs - a shared culture so you don't have to be on guard against everyone at all times.

Look at the breakdown of civilization among socialists - they have to arm police and secret police and expend the lion's share of their 'defense' budget locking down their own people out of fear of independence and initiative, enterprise and non-regulated/non-controlled behavior. But America had a vast interior largely self-governed and peaceful with no need of huge garrisons or police to maintain law and order until the 1960s.... even after the Civil war the Union went from 1 million soldiers and sailors in 1865 to 165,000 in 1866. De-mobilization was the norm not the exception. All those men going home with guns and military experience did not translate into civil war and bloodshed but economic booms. All on account of a shared culture, religious affiliation, government being small and de-centralized.

We won't get there again except through the concerted efforts of millions of people who work together for a common good of limited government, fiscal responsibility, enforcement of law and truth telling.

Like I said, a study of economic history would do some of y'all a lot of good. When do you think most social safety net legislation was enacted? 1930s. Why? Because we didn't (or couldn't) "help each other out of the goodness of our hearts." LOL

How about unions? Yep, 1930s. The result of massive labor unrest, year after year after year, all across the country.

Your rosy little picture of the 1930s and what life was actually like back then are two entirely different beasts. Read some damn history. If we had half the social disorder we saw in the 1930s, some of y'all would be declaring TEOTWAWKI. Yet we were nowhere near "collapse" in the 1930s.

After you read up on the 1930s, you should read up on the 1960s. The social disorder back then would blow your mind. Regular bombings, assassinations, riots, etc. Makes today look downright boring. Yet we were nowhere near "collapse" in the 1960s.

Most of your rant is just random stuff strung together. GMOs, "collapse" of moral values, not hanging out with your neighbors, yada yada yada. None of this equals the total "collapse" of the United States. Not even close.

You want to see a "collapsed" society? Read up on Somalia. Or Haiti. Are we anywhere near that level of collapse? Not even close.

The lack of perspective boggles the mind.

Interesting,, because I clearly said COLLAPSE... not recession or depression. You might want to take into consideration a couple of things before you assume that the past will repeat itself.
FOOD AND POPULATION(I think the numbers will speak for themselves, you can draw your own conclusions)
1, in 1929 US approx 70% of the population lived in a rural setting   In 2012 the total percentage living in rural areas was 17%   2. percentage of employed population working in the agricultural segment of the economy.. 1929 USA  22%    2012 USA 1.5%
3. Imported food into the US as a percentage of consumption. 1929 USA.. NA not tracked though thought to be well below 1%   USA 2009 17%( historical data shows a increase of approx 2% every 3-5 years. projection for 2015 would be approx 19%-20%)

ECONOMICS AND CURRENCY
1. In 1929 the US dollar was not the worlds reserve currency. That didn't happen until 1944 so comparing the 1929 depression to a modern day dollar collapse simply is not possible unless you suspend reality.
2. The recession of 2007  (yes many will say 2008, look again at the data and its clear that the slow down in the housing sector was well underway in the first quarter of 2007)
This was a recession, not a depression so it cant be used as modeling data either. it was NOT a monetary collapse.
3. DEBT load.. You can't simply compare debt numbers between years. Debt to GDP ratio is a much better way to understand the debt load. 1929 USA debt to GDP was 16% or we owed in debt 16% of our domestic production..USA 2015    101.53%  we owe more than we produce yearly..
4. Dependency on gov aid    2015  almost 50% of American housesolds are on some form of gov aid.   1929.. This was the first year this type of data was collected. The numbers are not well defined though total federal spending on ALL aid (unemployment, welfare, food assistance, etc was 1.1% of the total budget.
5. Current Federal spending on similar social welfare programs totals 21%(this total does not include SS, medicaid, etc)
SO still I maintain that you simply can't use ANY historical data to predict what the US will look like after a financial collapse. There has never been a country in a similar condition..I know for all the followers it's hard to accept that FerFal may be wrong.

I would have to disagree with two of your points.  It is far from rare for multi generations to be living in the same house and as a matter of fact it is without
a doubt on the rise, as a result of the impending financial meltdown.  Hell half of ARFcom is living in  mommies basement.

Secondly, things will turn quickly to race and ethnicity in the way of alliances and should be planned for accordingly.

98% white
1% Latino /Hispanic
.05 Africa America

Now...if the Snowbirds get organized ..the red necks in my AO may have some trouble lmao


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A great example of this fact is the change in design of single family homes. National builders now include "mother in law" quarters in several of their floor plans at many if not most of their communities. The trend is widespread enough that it has received national news attention.

I think what has been referred to as the "sandwich generation" was in the news a few years ago. Basically, it refers to middle age folks that still have adult offspring living with them and yet end up having to deal with elderly parents, often times having them move in with them as well. This was very common when my dad was growing up. Now, it's considered to be the result of unfortunate circumstances, not something done by design.

As far as ethnic conclaves, it occurs to me that most big cities have a small number of neighborhoods of predominately one type. But, that's just it, these enclaves are distributed throughout the entire country. In other words, all the Asians in the US didn't suddenly decide to move to Alabama and kick everybody else out. There just isn't that kind of mentality here and it's just not feasible, even if some determined idiots tried. Could the country break apart into South & Midwest region, Northeast region, and Western Libtard land? Sure, that's far more probable than some kind of Yugoslavia-like disintegration. But neither case is really all that likely, even with a complete financial collapse.

As for home design, the house I live in (which still has my adult son living here ) has more than double the amount of square footage of the house I grew up in as a kid (in a family of 5). When I look at some of the houses that were built back in the nuclear-family 50s, they are incredibly tiny by today's standards. We've just grown accustomed to having more stuff - more room, more cars, TVs, and iGadgets, and entertainment. If there is some kind of Great Depression V2.0, there will be a LOT of people that will absolutely not be able to cope with it, unlike our predecessors. How to prepare for that? Not real sure. How do you prepare for having a significant percentage of the population going full retard simply because they can't deal with reality?

That's a good question and inevitably, we will get to find out.

Okay, while I like Fernando and enjoy his input/experience (albeit, taken with a grain of salt like everything else), I did lol at this.  

Want to swap info?  

We're trying to do a little of everything - cash and cash equivalent savings, food & water, knowledge & skills, guns & ammo (duh!), and making friends with similar-if-not-same mindset.

This is why my wife and I are slowly learning how to live off our little 1 acre homestead nestled between the wider country and suburbia. At least brace for a possible income loss, higher food prices and shortages.

Besides the typical prepping for "doomsday" we are looking at food and water, renewable food sources if we can learn that and holistic medical sources. Actually taking a CPR certification this week.

Great stuff, even the counter arguments.

And the sons of Romulus Agustulus still rule Rome right?



Because we all know that empires never simply collapse and disappear......

Good luck. We did the same. After being debt free we relocated to a small homestead.  Its been a huge learning experience!  Tons of great stuff and a few bad. But over all its been highly educational.  Stuff you just don't learn /appreciate by just "researching " or reading about. True hands on learning. Food production was our 1st goal and did well till this year weather....bad seeds...flooding..but..those set backs turned into bigger /better water storage ..secondary source (well) ..and food harvesting (small game) ...
Enjoy it and good luck...its awesome!


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