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Posted: 1/23/2015 5:59:14 PM EDT
The Future of Preparedness and Modern Survivalism?
Posted on January 23, 2015 by FerFAL

According to some people, the end of the world is just around the corner. Because of one reason or another, an economic collapse, terrorism strike, rise of communism or planed globalist population reduction by the new world order, we are supposed to see a surge of disasters world wide. Even in developed nations expect cities to burn and the masses to riot any time now.
This speech has changed little in over half a century. But wait! Any minute now! Cities will burn, people will stave, the hordes of looters will flow out of the cities, you’ll see, you’ll…
Bullshit.
And it’s the same BS doomers have been preaching for several decades now.
But lets talk about the real fights ahead of us while we’re at it.
You see, while in parts of the world war is destroying lives by the thousands every single day, and there is in fact true hunger in many countries, for those lucky enough to live in developed nations chances are they will be facing different challenges.
Crime and Self-Defense


No one knows for sure what the future holds but while it’s rather expected to see armed conflict and widespread war in developing nations, it’s not as common to see it in developed ones. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but it sure isn’t as common. While some survivalists and preppers believe the UN is about to invade any minute now and North Korea has millions of troops ready to parachute all across the west coast, I believe that in the future the threats will be of a different nature. The crime that already exists, will simply become much, much worse. You won’t need to live in some bunker hidden in the boonies because of a foreign army invasion, you’ll need to live in a well secured home because of the dangerous, constant violent crime that exists and you eventually grew used to. Alarms, reinforced doors, even paying for private security, it will no longer be a luxury but a necessity and the country will soon be divided between those that can afford to pay for it and enjoy the security that comes along with it and those that can’t. Chances are you wont get into a gunfight with the “supreme leader’s” goons, or even with a colorful band of survivors and raiders. Chances are that most people that get killed by gunshot wounds in the not so distant future will die in the parking lot of some 7 Eleven or walmart when stopping to pick some diapers for the baby waiting back home, or shot during a carjack when driving to the office. Awareness and skill with the gun you should be carrying on daily basis already, that’s your best defense for this type of scenario.
Food


We all need food, don’t we? Food is the number one item to stock up on, the one we know we can’t live without. Whenever food is brought up in the context of survivalism, famine quickly comes to mind. People starving to death, people desperate for a plate of food. This is a very real, legitimate concern, but there’s a good chance food will be a problem in the future but in a different way. There’s a good chance food will continue to be the reason why hundreds of thousands die, but not because of lack of it, but because of its poor quality and excess. The true battle will be making sure our kids have real, healthy food and not the garbage often sold to us as food. As of right now, two thirds of American adults are overweight or obese and so are 30.4% of low-income preschoolers. Obesity is what will continue to kill people in developed nations and as the statistics already show us, obesity is worse among the poorest population in the developed world. Rich folks? They’re skinny. With more poverty, we’ll see worse fed people, because of the cheaper junk food, but most of all because of a lack of education. People will die because of the junk food they eat on daily basis, while the much healthier grains they bought for their “preps” sit in buckets waiting for the end of the world.
Medical care
The cost of medical care will continue to rise. On one hand we have companies brainwashing people into eating food that makes them sick, on the other we have the same investors putting money into the pharmaceutical companies that keep these same sheep alive.
Breaking a leg, getting surgery or buying blood pressure meds, no matter what it is that you need it will continue to get more and more expensive, with a fewer percentage of a population capable of affording true quality medical care. Learn how to get healthy and stay that way now, before getting sick.
Education and Mindset
This will probably be the worst tragedy of all. The collapse of the education system. True education and freedom of thought being replaced by some standardized scheme designed to mass produce cogs to fit the corporate machine. Sate owned corporation, of course, or maybe better said, Corporate owned State, with corporate preapproved elected representatives.
The cost of education will continue to grow. First based on where you can afford to live, then based on the private school you can afford to send your kids to and finally based on the college their debt capability permits. And when the degree they overpaid for hardly helps to make up for the debt they amassed before working a single day in their lives, they’ll finally see that it’s more about friends, connections, and ultimately the real-world practical skills you have.
You prepare for this by understanding that education is important, but not because of some piece of paper in a frame, but the actual education you get by studying and working, the kind of education you get maybe working on your own projects after school when you’re still in high school. Google and Microsoft are already paying kids NOT to go to school and join them straight away. Today more than ever, its important to work on what you’re passionate about from an early age, and getting the education and capacitation needed so as to do that. The times when you could just get a degree, hang it in your studio and that alone would always get you a job no matter what are long gone.
Poverty
As you probably already see, poverty is the common denominator in most of these topics. Inequality will continue to grow, with the ruling elite becoming even more powerful, even more controlling of all aspects of people’s lives and people’s liberty and quality of life dropping proportionally.
I believe it’s stupid to worry about preparing for a dystopian American future where wars are fought on every street corner, and lean mean, hardened survivors fight one another over the limited resources such as food, fuel and supplies, that are still available. Have fun watching that movie but no, that’s not the future I see, at least not in the developed world. The future is already here, you just have to look: Overweight and dumbed-down by a poor, corrupted education system and even worse diet. Working on soul-crushing jobs to pay massive debts (their own and their parents!) along with inflated medical and education bills. Distracted by the latest reality TV show or latest cell phone launch, stressed by the growing crime and violence all around them and living with the constant uncertainty of imminent unemployment and growing inflation.
Which one do you think is more likely? Which one do you find more scary?
FerFAL
http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/archives/3914
View Quote
Link Posted: 1/23/2015 6:48:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Excellent piece.
Link Posted: 1/23/2015 8:09:21 PM EDT
[#2]
American's favorite pastime...

"Fooling Themselves"

[cc Expy]




Link Posted: 1/23/2015 8:10:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Thank you! Great post and a very accurate depiction of what we are all truly headed to.

Well said.

Link Posted: 1/23/2015 11:20:18 PM EDT
[#4]
I agree with most of this. One nit I would pick is that my observation of a lot of so-called "poor" in rural areas is that they actually eat much better than rich folks in the city because they have to buy, grow, or raise whole foods and prepare them in their own house, not cruise down to McDs and wolf down a Big Mac or three.

I would also say that those folks that work in the trades (plumbers, welders, etc.) have as much education as they need to do their jobs.  I was talking with the wife earlier this evening about the things we used to do with our son. She'd come across a "journal" she used to write in about the things we did when our son was young. We did a lot of things with him to the point where when he started into day care, he already knew his colors, numbers, and a lot of other stuff. He was ahead of his grade level all thru school. Some of that was that both the wife and I have degrees so education was not an option for our kid, it was mandatory. Where a lot of "educators" fail miserably is that they assume that everyone should go to college (like Ocommie says). Well, guess what, they don't. Some people are not college material but are truly gifted in various craftsmanship trades. Pounding a square peg into a round hole doesn't benefit anyone and, in the case of .gov meddling in education, free/easy money causes the cost of education to skyrocket for those who actually SHOULD be pursuing it.

Right now, the deterioration of relations between arbitrarily defined "races" due to a-holes like Odumbo inflaming divisions is, I believe, a cancerous lesion that if it's not excised, will destroy the country just as it has done in so many developed countries. This doesn't have anything to do with the wildly mis-named "social justice", i.e. communism, but simply a culture that has been allowed to fester and foster hate. "Survivors" will be those that understand the potential threat to their lives and take action, possibly violent action, to protect themselves and their families. This, and only this, is what keeps crime from being rampant as it is, certainly not deterrence via the po-po or the criminal justice system. Since the number of gun owners has been skyrocketing and shall-issue CCW is the law-of-the-land in almost all but the stupidest states, I'd say that this deterrence is growing, not shrinking. (Although, one should question what is driving the most massive arms buildup in the history of mankind - I'm sure the reasons are varied but most of the reasons I've heard people say point to people having a real fear of some ill-defined "bad $hit coming".)

The "inequity" between poor and rich will only be cured when the the poor are not being paid to stay that way and the rich are not rewarded thru cronyism. Eventually, as Maggy Thatcher once said, the .gov "runs out of other people's money". When, not if, that happens, there will be a massive reset - it cannot be otherwise unless our so-called "leaders" grow a spine and start whacking everything the .gov does back into its proper box. How likely is that?
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 3:39:56 AM EDT
[#5]
This biggest thing im preparing for is a 9.0 when the Cascadia Fault decides to let loose!
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 7:34:41 AM EDT
[#6]
I prep for the end of the world.

Not because I think a comet's necessarily going to take out the Southern Hemisphere tomorrow, but because it's the easiest way to cover all the bases.  If I'm ready for TEOTWAWKI, chances are good that I'll be ready for the real emergency, for example, the ice storm that knocks out power for two weeks.  The EOTW scenario helps ensure that I'm ready not only for the ice storm, but also the kid that cut his thigh open crossing a barbed wire fence, the tree-trimming truck that crushed the sewer line, the shorted-out well pump power line... the "minor" emergencies that can still make life miserable if you're not ready for them.
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 11:18:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Wow. It's rare to encounter a thread that's so rational and logical nowadays. On food, only in "developed" countries - where we have great health-care and food-production megasystems - are there simultaneous problems of poverty and obesity.

On the crime/self-defense/gun-prepping side of things, again +1. The problems imo are a lot less likely to be a Red Dawn or Mad Max, and a lot more likely to simply be a growing rate - and intensity - of small-scale violent incidents. Whether it's violent robberies or other violent assaults (largely stemming from economic-based or race-based emotions), I believe that they will simply increase as they have the last few years.

I don't completely ignore/discount some of the more 'out there' concerns such as a cme/emp, etc., because while the odds are imo low, the stakes are inordinately high in some of those things. But I completely agree that the most likely things we'll see and should therefore 'prep' for, are those things that already exist, and are growing in scope or danger.
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 2:50:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Look at South Africa, and you have the future of the United States. FerFAL knows his stuff.
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 3:07:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Great post...putting on the OPSEC glasses, I worry about it in the following order:

1) Health
2) Finances
3) Personal Safety
4) Natural Disaster or Industrial Incident
5) Everything else

My thoughts are that if you are not healthy, nothing else matters.  That goes to the top of the list.

Secondly, if you don't have anything, you don't have to worry about someone stealing your stuff/assaulting you - so crime risk comes second to the priority of gaining something financially.  Spend wisely, save up for a stable economic life and helping others is common sense. Money provides velocity to do other things.

Third, crime... I see it every day here in Houston.  The "bleeding over" of crime from the "bad areas" to the "good areas".  I am sure that some of that "bleeding over" is on purpose...the have-nots trying to forcibly take from the "haves" that they've been taught to hate....some neighborhoods already have their local warlords. HPD doesn't do shit as far as I can see.  It's the highest likelihood bad event that can occur other than a heart attack or car accident.

Then comes the slightly probable but significantly impactful natural/industrial incident. Don't worry too much about it happening, but take precautions in the event it does.

To me, economic problems and crime will be like chickens pecking us to death over decades....they are the cancers we need to cure if we have any hope of a successful society.
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 6:09:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Excellent piece.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/24/2015 6:16:12 PM EDT
[#11]
good read
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 8:40:55 PM EDT
[#12]
I'm happy too see the "quality of food" thing mentioned.   Our American diet is filled with so much JUNK!  

I'm fortunate enough to afford healthy food and to be able to hunt a lot of my proteins.  I've adopted a mostly Paleo diet.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 8:40:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm happy too see the "quality of food" thing mentioned.   Our American diet is filled with so much JUNK!  

I'm fortunate enough to afford healthy food and to be able to hunt a lot of my proteins.  I've adopted a mostly Paleo diet.
View Quote



Getting away from town is great to. As posted if there isn't a fast food joint 5 minutes away you ain't gonna drive to one. Closest fast rood to me is 30+ miles....its helped a ton due to not being convenient!

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:46:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Last night we ate a rabbit I shot, corn and beans that we grew in the garden and put up in the freezer. It is always a good feeling when you have a whole meal of things you grew or shot and not from the store.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:36:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks folks, glad you guys liked it.
Quoted:
I agree with most of this. One nit I would pick is that my observation of a lot of so-called "poor" in rural areas is that they actually eat much better than rich folks in the city because they have to buy, grow, or raise whole foods and prepare them in their own house, not cruise down to McDs and wolf down a Big Mac or three.
View Quote

Many times we assume things because we believe they are logical and make sense to us, but aren’t actually true. I think I wrote about this particular topic (or maybe did a youtube video about?) Interestingly enough, rural people are fatter than city people.”39 percent of rural Americans being obese compared to 33 percent of urban Americans”
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/rural-america-fatter-urban-america/story?id=17231029
The difference between rich and poor when it comes to overweight is just as bad or worse: By all accounts rich people are “skinny”. Obesity is mostly a poor person’s problem. Most poor folks aren’t into growing food, they are into buying cheap fast food instead. In some studies we see that rich kids exercise more than poor kids, and the amount of obese poor kids almost double the percentage of fat rich kids. The situation is particularly bad for poor kids in single parent homes. Poor families are also more likely to take meds and drugs rather than exercise.
http://rense.com/general42/fatter.htm
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/rich-people-exercise-poor-people-take-diet-pills/378852/

The "inequity" between poor and rich will only be cured when the the poor are not being paid to stay that way and the rich are not rewarded thru cronyism. Eventually, as Maggy Thatcher once said, the .gov "runs out of other people's money". When, not if, that happens, there will be a massive reset - it cannot be otherwise unless our so-called "leaders" grow a spine and start whacking everything the .gov does back into its proper box. How likely is that?
View Quote


I think we’re screwed in that regard. Politicians are nothing but puppets, with the corporate elite really running the world. All the right and left, dem or republican, the so called “liberal” media or “conservative” media, its all a smoke screen. About the Iron Lady, they say  “Thatcher's only been in hell half an hour and she's already closed down three furnaces”. The average person, even the slightly above average person doesn’t really understand who’s in charge, who starts wars and why, who benefits from what. Even in this same forum where supposedly you’re more likely to encounter freedom loving people, its easy to get into heated debates with folks defending the same people that have been causing war and poverty for the last hundred years, not to mention the ones responsible for the debt crisis and recent economic collapse.
Quoted:
I prep for the end of the world.

Not because I think a comet's necessarily going to take out the Southern Hemisphere tomorrow, but because it's the easiest way to cover all the bases.  If I'm ready for TEOTWAWKI, chances are good that I'll be ready for the real emergency, for example, the ice storm that knocks out power for two weeks.  The EOTW scenario helps ensure that I'm ready not only for the ice storm, but also the kid that cut his thigh open crossing a barbed wire fence, the tree-trimming truck that crushed the sewer line, the shorted-out well pump power line... the "minor" emergencies that can still make life miserable if you're not ready for them.
View Quote

The problem with that is that if you prepare for TEOTWAWKI, you’re not really preparing for everything… youre just preparing for the end of the world! There are certain things as you mention that overlap, but ultimately it’s a completely different strategy in other aspects if you prepare for the end of the world compared to preparing for other more likely things. It’s a huge topic but just as an example; if I thought the world was about to end I probably would have stayed in Argentina, bought a ranch somewhere in Patagonia waiting for the developed nations to blow up one another. Another big difference would be savings and investments. If the world ends, there’s no point in having much investments, real estate and such.
Quoted:
Great post...putting on the OPSEC glasses, I worry about it in the following order:

1) Health
2) Finances
3) Personal Safety
4) Natural Disaster or Industrial Incident
5) Everything else

My thoughts are that if you are not healthy, nothing else matters.  That goes to the top of the list.

Secondly, if you don't have anything, you don't have to worry about someone stealing your stuff/assaulting you - so crime risk comes second to the priority of gaining something financially.  Spend wisely, save up for a stable economic life and helping others is common sense. Money provides velocity to do other things.

Third, crime... I see it every day here in Houston.  The "bleeding over" of crime from the "bad areas" to the "good areas".  I am sure that some of that "bleeding over" is on purpose...the have-nots trying to forcibly take from the "haves" that they've been taught to hate....some neighborhoods already have their local warlords. HPD doesn't do shit as far as I can see.  It's the highest likelihood bad event that can occur other than a heart attack or car accident.

Then comes the slightly probable but significantly impactful natural/industrial incident. Don't worry too much about it happening, but take precautions in the event it does.

To me, economic problems and crime will be like chickens pecking us to death over decades....they are the cancers we need to cure if we have any hope of a successful society.
View Quote

That’s a good approach. I would somewhat argue that under certain circumstances, safety can become 2), more important than finances. With very high crime, money in the bank wont do you much good it you’re always risking getting shot whenever you set foot on the streets. Now in a less violent place with a far less likely chance of becoming a victim of a violent crime, then it could move back down although even if that percentage is 00.01%, it would still suck to be the only person murdered in town during a robbery in the last ten years.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 7:49:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks folks, glad you guys liked it.

Many times we assume things because we believe they are logical and make sense to us, but aren’t actually true. I think I wrote about this particular topic (or maybe did a youtube video about?) Interestingly enough, rural people are fatter than city people.”39 percent of rural Americans being obese compared to 33 percent of urban Americans”
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/rural-america-fatter-urban-america/story?id=17231029
The difference between rich and poor when it comes to overweight is just as bad or worse: By all accounts rich people are “skinny”. Obesity is mostly a poor person’s problem. Most poor folks aren’t into growing food, they are into buying cheap fast food instead. In some studies we see that rich kids exercise more than poor kids, and the amount of obese poor kids almost double the percentage of fat rich kids. The situation is particularly bad for poor kids in single parent homes. Poor families are also more likely to take meds and drugs rather than exercise.
http://rense.com/general42/fatter.htm
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/rich-people-exercise-poor-people-take-diet-pills/378852/


I think we’re screwed in that regard. Politicians are nothing but puppets, with the corporate elite really running the world. All the right and left, dem or republican, the so called “liberal” media or “conservative” media, its all a smoke screen. About the Iron Lady, they say  “Thatcher's only been in hell half an hour and she's already closed down three furnaces”. The average person, even the slightly above average person doesn’t really understand who’s in charge, who starts wars and why, who benefits from what. Even in this same forum where supposedly you’re more likely to encounter freedom loving people, its easy to get into heated debates with folks defending the same people that have been causing war and poverty for the last hundred years, not to mention the ones responsible for the debt crisis and recent economic collapse.

The problem with that is that if you prepare for TEOTWAWKI, you’re not really preparing for everything… youre just preparing for the end of the world! There are certain things as you mention that overlap, but ultimately it’s a completely different strategy in other aspects if you prepare for the end of the world compared to preparing for other more likely things. It’s a huge topic but just as an example; if I thought the world was about to end I probably would have stayed in Argentina, bought a ranch somewhere in Patagonia waiting for the developed nations to blow up one another. Another big difference would be savings and investments. If the world ends, there’s no point in having much investments, real estate and such.

That’s a good approach. I would somewhat argue that under certain circumstances, safety can become 2), more important than finances. With very high crime, money in the bank wont do you much good it you’re always risking getting shot whenever you set foot on the streets. Now in a less violent place with a far less likely chance of becoming a victim of a violent crime, then it could move back down although even if that percentage is 00.01%, it would still suck to be the only person murdered in town during a robbery in the last ten years.
FerFAL
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks folks, glad you guys liked it.
Quoted:
I agree with most of this. One nit I would pick is that my observation of a lot of so-called "poor" in rural areas is that they actually eat much better than rich folks in the city because they have to buy, grow, or raise whole foods and prepare them in their own house, not cruise down to McDs and wolf down a Big Mac or three.

Many times we assume things because we believe they are logical and make sense to us, but aren’t actually true. I think I wrote about this particular topic (or maybe did a youtube video about?) Interestingly enough, rural people are fatter than city people.”39 percent of rural Americans being obese compared to 33 percent of urban Americans”
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/rural-america-fatter-urban-america/story?id=17231029
The difference between rich and poor when it comes to overweight is just as bad or worse: By all accounts rich people are “skinny”. Obesity is mostly a poor person’s problem. Most poor folks aren’t into growing food, they are into buying cheap fast food instead. In some studies we see that rich kids exercise more than poor kids, and the amount of obese poor kids almost double the percentage of fat rich kids. The situation is particularly bad for poor kids in single parent homes. Poor families are also more likely to take meds and drugs rather than exercise.
http://rense.com/general42/fatter.htm
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/08/rich-people-exercise-poor-people-take-diet-pills/378852/

The "inequity" between poor and rich will only be cured when the the poor are not being paid to stay that way and the rich are not rewarded thru cronyism. Eventually, as Maggy Thatcher once said, the .gov "runs out of other people's money". When, not if, that happens, there will be a massive reset - it cannot be otherwise unless our so-called "leaders" grow a spine and start whacking everything the .gov does back into its proper box. How likely is that?


I think we’re screwed in that regard. Politicians are nothing but puppets, with the corporate elite really running the world. All the right and left, dem or republican, the so called “liberal” media or “conservative” media, its all a smoke screen. About the Iron Lady, they say  “Thatcher's only been in hell half an hour and she's already closed down three furnaces”. The average person, even the slightly above average person doesn’t really understand who’s in charge, who starts wars and why, who benefits from what. Even in this same forum where supposedly you’re more likely to encounter freedom loving people, its easy to get into heated debates with folks defending the same people that have been causing war and poverty for the last hundred years, not to mention the ones responsible for the debt crisis and recent economic collapse.
Quoted:
I prep for the end of the world.

Not because I think a comet's necessarily going to take out the Southern Hemisphere tomorrow, but because it's the easiest way to cover all the bases.  If I'm ready for TEOTWAWKI, chances are good that I'll be ready for the real emergency, for example, the ice storm that knocks out power for two weeks.  The EOTW scenario helps ensure that I'm ready not only for the ice storm, but also the kid that cut his thigh open crossing a barbed wire fence, the tree-trimming truck that crushed the sewer line, the shorted-out well pump power line... the "minor" emergencies that can still make life miserable if you're not ready for them.

The problem with that is that if you prepare for TEOTWAWKI, you’re not really preparing for everything… youre just preparing for the end of the world! There are certain things as you mention that overlap, but ultimately it’s a completely different strategy in other aspects if you prepare for the end of the world compared to preparing for other more likely things. It’s a huge topic but just as an example; if I thought the world was about to end I probably would have stayed in Argentina, bought a ranch somewhere in Patagonia waiting for the developed nations to blow up one another. Another big difference would be savings and investments. If the world ends, there’s no point in having much investments, real estate and such.
Quoted:
Great post...putting on the OPSEC glasses, I worry about it in the following order:

1) Health
2) Finances
3) Personal Safety
4) Natural Disaster or Industrial Incident
5) Everything else

My thoughts are that if you are not healthy, nothing else matters.  That goes to the top of the list.

Secondly, if you don't have anything, you don't have to worry about someone stealing your stuff/assaulting you - so crime risk comes second to the priority of gaining something financially.  Spend wisely, save up for a stable economic life and helping others is common sense. Money provides velocity to do other things.

Third, crime... I see it every day here in Houston.  The "bleeding over" of crime from the "bad areas" to the "good areas".  I am sure that some of that "bleeding over" is on purpose...the have-nots trying to forcibly take from the "haves" that they've been taught to hate....some neighborhoods already have their local warlords. HPD doesn't do shit as far as I can see.  It's the highest likelihood bad event that can occur other than a heart attack or car accident.

Then comes the slightly probable but significantly impactful natural/industrial incident. Don't worry too much about it happening, but take precautions in the event it does.

To me, economic problems and crime will be like chickens pecking us to death over decades....they are the cancers we need to cure if we have any hope of a successful society.

That’s a good approach. I would somewhat argue that under certain circumstances, safety can become 2), more important than finances. With very high crime, money in the bank wont do you much good it you’re always risking getting shot whenever you set foot on the streets. Now in a less violent place with a far less likely chance of becoming a victim of a violent crime, then it could move back down although even if that percentage is 00.01%, it would still suck to be the only person murdered in town during a robbery in the last ten years.
FerFAL


Noted, understood and agreed. Couple more year's of this "social justice" and things gonna change.....
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 1:52:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Completely agree with fer fal. Lot of preppers live in a mad max/zombie fantasy.  Few realize that SHTF can be.

1) Your car cannot pass smog and the catalytic converter costs $1,200. (Fixed myself for $250)
2) Your water heater dies and you don't have the $1,000 the plumber wants. (Installed myself for $350)
3) The ECM blows on your car and the dealer wants $1,300. (Sent out and had rebuilt for $100)
4) Loose your job. (Hated being a house husband)
5) Get hurt (haven't been yet thank god)

The middle class is backslideing hard and bills that would only require a few hours extra at work. Now are major crises for a lot of people. So my focus has been on

1) Mechanical skills/ tools
2) Financial stability/debt free
3) loving relationship with my wife.

As for education the social communists In power want you to be helpless. It's why they took out shop class and track kids into a liberal arts degree. It's why we have people who
1) Cannot snake a drain
2) Read
3) Think Karl Marx wrote the bill of rights.
4) Find Afghanistan on a map.
5) Maintain basic relationship skills with people.

So yes this is a good time to reevaluate who our enemy's are.

Link Posted: 1/26/2015 3:53:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
You see, while in parts of the world war is destroying lives by the thousands every single day, and there is in fact true hunger in many countries, for those lucky enough to live in developed nations chances are they will be facing different challenges.

View Quote


I really want to complain here that tinfoil-hat-style collapse is, on a very large historical scale, the rule rather than the exception... but you're right, people are neglecting to prepare for the most likely problems because nobody really wants to deal with decades of slowly declining standards of living.

There is also a pervasive attitude in the US that we'll be among the last of the developed nations to really go to shit, and that if we go down everyone else is going with us.    The latter has a lot of strong arguments; I'm not so sure about the former.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 8:33:58 AM EDT
[#19]
I see no real difference between long term SHTF or short term SHTF.  Prepping is not about building a big stash of stuff, it is about weaning yourself from government. It is about becoming as self-sufficient as possible. That works for any scenario: from Mad Max to Katrina.

 
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 10:47:47 AM EDT
[#20]
I have mixed feelings from my gut on this issue. I see enough going on that I have to question what is truly going to happen. I don't know but my gut really doesn't like it.

I guess its just prepare and live life to the fullest.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 11:18:18 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
I see no real difference between long term SHTF or short term SHTF.  Prepping is not about building a big stash of stuff, it is about weaning yourself from government. It is about becoming as self-sufficient as possible. That works for any scenario: from Mad Max to Katrina.  
View Quote



That's how its been for me...but I've never dealt with time frames for food etc. Its just been x amount will get us thru a weekend or several months..
Becoming self reliant by producing your own food...etc means now funds can be put elsewhere be it your retirement fund...paying off debt etc.
I think to many dwell on the scenario as a planning point vs just expanding their plans

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Link Posted: 1/26/2015 12:40:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Unless one lives way, way out in the boonies, most "rural" people have neighbors within sight or gunshot sound range... I am always amazed how often RURAL roads, even off-road roads, are traveled by someone... From the rural people I have met, many of them are barely surviving financially and don't have much to anything in "preps," but they have SKILLS... They know how to hunt and usually own a deer-rifle with a scope. They are good enough shots to put down a deer. So my BIGGEST CONCERN in SHTF is these people getting hungry and desperate, figuring out YOU have STUFF and FOOD, and using those hunting skills on YOU as you step out your front door.... The ASSUMED MORALS of the rural folk can no longer be assumed to be GOOD people, as it is no longer true in many areas, as Hillbilly Meth & Oxy dealers show us in the news...

So it is Brave, New World out there... Much more to factor and consider...

But avoiding URBAN, at this stage of the game, is still good strategy.

Rmpl
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 2:10:45 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
Unless one lives way, way out in the boonies, most "rural" people have neighbors within sight or gunshot sound range... I am always amazed how often RURAL roads, even off-road roads, are traveled by someone... From the rural people I have met, many of them are barely surviving financially and don't have much to anything in "preps," but they have SKILLS... They know how to hunt and usually own a deer-rifle with a scope. They are good enough shots to put down a deer. So my BIGGEST CONCERN in SHTF is these people getting hungry and desperate, figuring out YOU have STUFF and FOOD, and using those hunting skills on YOU as you step out your front door.... The ASSUMED MORALS of the rural folk can no longer be assumed to be GOOD people, as it is no longer true in many areas, as Hillbilly Meth & Oxy dealers show us in the news...

So it is Brave, New World out there... Much more to factor and consider...

But avoiding URBAN, at this stage of the game, is still good strategy.


Rmpl
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I think that's always going to be the case. Less people around = less potential problems.

Also, it's RARELY RARELY the case that someone lives THAT THAT rural wherein their is no hospital close by, no stores, etc. Yet this is often the stereotype that urban dwellers have.

Their are plenty of spots in the country where you can be semi secluded, be able to use DISTANCE as a security factor, have space to grow your own food (and less gubmint BS regarding these things), where you can find a good hospital close (we have our choice of about 4 close by), where colleges are close by (2 within 20 min drive), etc.

Lived in cities the first 26 years of my life, lived rural the other 15. I've met easily 6X the amount of millionaires living in the country than I ever knew or even heard of living in the city. So this old cliche that everyone who lives in the sticks is an "ig'nat hick" that doesn't have two $20. to rub together. That's definitely not the case. Some of the smartest and wealthiest people are found in the country.

____

Link Posted: 1/26/2015 2:12:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I see no real difference between long term SHTF or short term SHTF.  Prepping is not about building a big stash of stuff, it is about weaning yourself from government. It is about becoming as self-sufficient as possible. That works for any scenario: from Mad Max to Katrina.  
View Quote


There's a huge difference. Katrina you can recover from with a fat bank account or investments by simply moving somewhere else. Heck, Katrina could have overcome if you had good home insurance. Mad Max means insurance and money mean nothing at all. Pretty big difference if you ask me.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 5:30:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Thank you.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 8:41:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:Lived in cities the first 26 years of my life, lived rural the other 15. I've met easily 6X the amount of millionaires living in the country than I ever knew or even heard of living in the city. So this old cliche that everyone who lives in the sticks is an "ig'nat hick" that doesn't have two $20. to rub together. That's definitely not the case. Some of the smartest and wealthiest people are found in the country.
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Yes, with less bias, I agree that the areas I live or have lived in are a mix of poor, middle-class, and wealthy. With a major university nearby, I probably have more wealthy than rub sticks poor, but it is the run down farmhouses and shacks I see that bias me, I guess, as many have big, dirty 4x4's and hunting stickers on them in the yard but not much else to hold them over in a crisis. It brings back memories of some of the mudders in Florida I used to know who were for themselves, no matter what, with no strong moral base to keep them from the evil side, but strong "family" loyalty... I think they would do anything to feed their family if bad times came around. I don't fear the wealthy rurals, as money will take them done the road farther in bad times, but the low-moral, have nothing, hunters-savvy that concern me...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 9:16:18 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


Yes, with less bias, I agree that the areas I live or have lived in are a mix of poor, middle-class, and wealthy. With a major university nearby, I probably have more wealthy than rub sticks poor, but it is the run down farmhouses and shacks I see that bias me, I guess, as many have big, dirty 4x4's and hunting stickers on them in the yard but not much else to hold them over in a crisis. It brings back memories of some of the mudders in Florida I used to know who were for themselves, no matter what, with no strong moral base to keep them from the evil side, but strong "family" loyalty... I think they would do anything to feed their family if bad times came around. I don't fear the wealthy rurals, as money will take them done the road farther in bad times, but the low-moral, have nothing, hunters-savvy that concern me...

Rmpl
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Quoted:
Quoted:Lived in cities the first 26 years of my life, lived rural the other 15. I've met easily 6X the amount of millionaires living in the country than I ever knew or even heard of living in the city. So this old cliche that everyone who lives in the sticks is an "ig'nat hick" that doesn't have two $20. to rub together. That's definitely not the case. Some of the smartest and wealthiest people are found in the country.


Yes, with less bias, I agree that the areas I live or have lived in are a mix of poor, middle-class, and wealthy. With a major university nearby, I probably have more wealthy than rub sticks poor, but it is the run down farmhouses and shacks I see that bias me, I guess, as many have big, dirty 4x4's and hunting stickers on them in the yard but not much else to hold them over in a crisis. It brings back memories of some of the mudders in Florida I used to know who were for themselves, no matter what, with no strong moral base to keep them from the evil side, but strong "family" loyalty... I think they would do anything to feed their family if bad times came around. I don't fear the wealthy rurals, as money will take them done the road farther in bad times, but the low-moral, have nothing, hunters-savvy that concern me...

Rmpl



I fear the hordes trying to get to the ""country "....more than I do those already here.
I know who's ""bad " o'er say now...and can plan for that.....but if the flood gates are open on a mass Exodus ......to many UN knowns....
Luckily .....there's a major..choke point that could be closed off good if one was willing....
But hey ill just buy good insurance ...and move come shtf :p LOL




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Link Posted: 1/26/2015 9:41:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Good read.

Many people need to be reminded to focus on health, food, water, beans, saving, cash, and skills than guns and ammo and freeze dried food.

Link Posted: 1/26/2015 10:04:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Good stuff
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 10:22:19 PM EDT
[#30]
One thing that I would add is that if the US has a complete meltdown- economic, .gov, financial, etc.- that it will be only after every other country already beat us to it. But that doesn't prevent us from going over the cliff nonetheless. If we do have such a meltdown, it will make the Great Depression look like boom times by comparison. My dad used to tell me that during the GD, a loaf of bread was only a quarter. Problem was, finding a quarter.
Link Posted: 1/27/2015 8:54:03 AM EDT
[#31]
I recently heard a statistic that in my home state of MS there are more people on some form of government assistance than have jobs. Let that sink in for a minute...
Link Posted: 1/27/2015 10:10:24 AM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
I recently heard a statistic that in my home state of MS there are more people on some form of government assistance than have jobs. Let that sink in for a minute...
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I worked in /with /around. Gov /assisted types for 7 years......I honestly don't think the majority of people really understand how things could get cowboys and Indians real fast if the funds stop. Its grand that many stereotype the issue /scenario but seeing 1st hand the effects of short-term denial of what many in the FSA consider what they are entitled to...made me go the route I did in my preps.

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Link Posted: 1/28/2015 11:37:00 AM EDT
[#33]
Great post as usual FerFal. Thank you for staying on the side of logic.
Link Posted: 1/28/2015 6:14:14 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:



I worked in /with /around. Gov /assisted types for 7 years......I honestly don't think the majority of people really understand how things could get cowboys and Indians real fast if the funds stop. Its grand that many stereotype the issue /scenario but seeing 1st hand the effects of short-term denial of what many in the FSA consider what they are entitled to...made me go the route I did in my preps.

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Quoted:
I recently heard a statistic that in my home state of MS there are more people on some form of government assistance than have jobs. Let that sink in for a minute...



I worked in /with /around. Gov /assisted types for 7 years......I honestly don't think the majority of people really understand how things could get cowboys and Indians real fast if the funds stop. Its grand that many stereotype the issue /scenario but seeing 1st hand the effects of short-term denial of what many in the FSA consider what they are entitled to...made me go the route I did in my preps.

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Indeed.
Link Posted: 1/29/2015 7:36:49 PM EDT
[#35]
When things come apart slowly, people adapt or at least 'normalize' to the progressing situation.  When things come apart fast, those least able to rapidly adapt panic and panic leads to irrational behavior (think reacting violently).  So far (in my opinion) things in this country (and in other 'first world' countries) have been on a slow wind down.  The question is (in my mind) if/when the 'spin down' picks up speed (and I am sure again in my mind) that it will happen, who among us will see it for what it is at that point in time.  Times are becoming interesting ............
Link Posted: 1/29/2015 8:24:26 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:
When things come apart slowly, people adapt or at least 'normalize' to the progressing situation.  When things come apart fast, those least able to rapidly adapt panic and panic leads to irrational behavior (think reacting violently).  So far (in my opinion) things in this country (and in other 'first world' countries) have been on a slow wind down.  The question is (in my mind) if/when the 'spin down' picks up speed (and I am sure again in my mind) that it will happen, who among us will see it for what it is at that point in time.  Times are becoming interesting ............
View Quote

I can tell you based on my experience in Argentina, what I've noticed happen in other countries and learned from research, you can expect it to be the slow boiling frog thing.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 1/30/2015 12:24:45 AM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:

I can tell you based on my experience in Argentina, what I've noticed happen in other countries and learned from research, you can expect it to be the slow boiling frog thing.
FerFAL
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Quoted:
When things come apart slowly, people adapt or at least 'normalize' to the progressing situation.  When things come apart fast, those least able to rapidly adapt panic and panic leads to irrational behavior (think reacting violently).  So far (in my opinion) things in this country (and in other 'first world' countries) have been on a slow wind down.  The question is (in my mind) if/when the 'spin down' picks up speed (and I am sure again in my mind) that it will happen, who among us will see it for what it is at that point in time.  Times are becoming interesting ............

I can tell you based on my experience in Argentina, what I've noticed happen in other countries and learned from research, you can expect it to be the slow boiling frog thing.
FerFAL



This.  

I think governments are acutely aware that if they slow roll the problem they can talk their way around it and the people by and large accept it.  If it all goes down fast they know the people are going to come for them to string them up.  

Link Posted: 1/30/2015 3:46:59 PM EDT
[#38]
I always find it amusing when people within our own community who proclaim themselves "survivalists"  label others within our community crazy. Like preparing for economic collapse is SOO far fetched that those of us who take it seriously and are committed to it are delusional Mad Max wannabees. Just ponder a few facts.  1. The US Dollar is the reserve currency for most trade on our planet. Because of that fact the fed is able to print cash (which is a bad thing) pretty much at will. However, loosing our reserve currency status would cause our dollar to implode. If you don't know what the reserve currency is or what it means you owe it to yourself to look it up.          2. Im sure the majority of the population in Argentina, 1931 Germany(Wiemar Republic) the US in 1929 and 2006, Zimbabwe had any idea that they were on the verge. How soon we forget!!!  NAW IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE.......  3. What makes you more comfortable?? believing that those in control of the Ponzi scheme we call our economy can continue to keep it going or preparing for the possibility that they can't ??
Link Posted: 1/30/2015 4:16:17 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
I always find it amusing when people within our own community who proclaim themselves "survivalists"  label others within our community crazy. Like preparing for economic collapse is SOO far fetched that those of us who take it seriously and are committed to it are delusional Mad Max wannabees. Just ponder a few facts.  1. The US Dollar is the reserve currency for most trade on our planet. Because of that fact the fed is able to print cash (which is a bad thing) pretty much at will. However, loosing our reserve currency status would cause our dollar to implode. If you don't know what the reserve currency is or what it means you owe it to yourself to look it up.          2. Im sure the majority of the population in Argentina, 1931 Germany(Wiemar Republic) the US in 1929 and 2006, Zimbabwe had any idea that they were on the verge. How soon we forget!!!  NAW IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE.......  3. What makes you more comfortable?? believing that those in control of the Ponzi scheme we call our economy can continue to keep it going or preparing for the possibility that they can't ??
View Quote



I thought survivalist were the camo clad crazy Bunker dwellers...is there another group of crazies I should be looking out for?


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Link Posted: 1/30/2015 4:19:26 PM EDT
[#40]
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I thought survivalist were the camo clad crazy Bunker dwellers...is there another group of crazies I should be looking out for?


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Quoted:
Quoted:
I always find it amusing when people within our own community who proclaim themselves "survivalists"  label others within our community crazy. Like preparing for economic collapse is SOO far fetched that those of us who take it seriously and are committed to it are delusional Mad Max wannabees. Just ponder a few facts.  1. The US Dollar is the reserve currency for most trade on our planet. Because of that fact the fed is able to print cash (which is a bad thing) pretty much at will. However, loosing our reserve currency status would cause our dollar to implode. If you don't know what the reserve currency is or what it means you owe it to yourself to look it up.          2. Im sure the majority of the population in Argentina, 1931 Germany(Wiemar Republic) the US in 1929 and 2006, Zimbabwe had any idea that they were on the verge. How soon we forget!!!  NAW IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE.......  3. What makes you more comfortable?? believing that those in control of the Ponzi scheme we call our economy can continue to keep it going or preparing for the possibility that they can't ??



I thought survivalist were the camo clad crazy Bunker dwellers...is there another group of crazies I should be looking out for?


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Yeah   apparently those who believe economic collapse is likely
Link Posted: 1/30/2015 8:06:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I always find it amusing when people within our own community who proclaim themselves "survivalists"  label others within our community crazy. Like preparing for economic collapse is SOO far fetched that those of us who take it seriously and are committed to it are delusional Mad Max wannabees. Just ponder a few facts.  1. The US Dollar is the reserve currency for most trade on our planet. Because of that fact the fed is able to print cash (which is a bad thing) pretty much at will. However, loosing our reserve currency status would cause our dollar to implode. If you don't know what the reserve currency is or what it means you owe it to yourself to look it up.          2. Im sure the majority of the population in Argentina, 1931 Germany(Wiemar Republic) the US in 1929 and 2006, Zimbabwe had any idea that they were on the verge. How soon we forget!!!  NAW IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE.......  3. What makes you more comfortable?? believing that those in control of the Ponzi scheme we call our economy can continue to keep it going or preparing for the possibility that they can't ??
View Quote

Preparing for an economic collapse isnt far fetched at all. What is far fetched is preparing for it believing it will go down a)in a way it never happened before, in any of the examples you mention, and I've seen one of those first hand b)Believing it will go down in a way it never happened before, but for some reason matching what is often seen in Hollywood movies or fiction novels.
An economic collapse does not mean Mad Max, it mostly means povery. Lots of it. In today's world, and most of all in developed countries, poverty will most likely mean a mass of what used to be educated, healthy middle class, becoming fat, sick, welfare dependant ignorant people. You already see this trend today, so its not as if you need a crystal ball to see where (in general, and within a margin of error) things are mostly heading to.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 1/30/2015 11:22:04 PM EDT
[#42]
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Preparing for an economic collapse isnt far fetched at all. What is far fetched is preparing for it believing it will go down a)in a way it never happened before, in any of the examples you mention, and I've seen one of those first hand b)Believing it will go down in a way it never happened before, but for some reason matching what is often seen in Hollywood movies or fiction novels.
An economic collapse does not mean Mad Max, it mostly means povery. Lots of it. In today's world, and most of all in developed countries, poverty will most likely mean a mass of what used to be educated, healthy middle class, becoming fat, sick, welfare dependant ignorant people. You already see this trend today, so its not as if you need a crystal ball to see where (in general, and within a margin of error) things are mostly heading to.
FerFAL
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I always find it amusing when people within our own community who proclaim themselves "survivalists"  label others within our community crazy. Like preparing for economic collapse is SOO far fetched that those of us who take it seriously and are committed to it are delusional Mad Max wannabees. Just ponder a few facts.  1. The US Dollar is the reserve currency for most trade on our planet. Because of that fact the fed is able to print cash (which is a bad thing) pretty much at will. However, loosing our reserve currency status would cause our dollar to implode. If you don't know what the reserve currency is or what it means you owe it to yourself to look it up.          2. Im sure the majority of the population in Argentina, 1931 Germany(Wiemar Republic) the US in 1929 and 2006, Zimbabwe had any idea that they were on the verge. How soon we forget!!!  NAW IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE.......  3. What makes you more comfortable?? believing that those in control of the Ponzi scheme we call our economy can continue to keep it going or preparing for the possibility that they can't ??

Preparing for an economic collapse isnt far fetched at all. What is far fetched is preparing for it believing it will go down a)in a way it never happened before, in any of the examples you mention, and I've seen one of those first hand b)Believing it will go down in a way it never happened before, but for some reason matching what is often seen in Hollywood movies or fiction novels.
An economic collapse does not mean Mad Max, it mostly means povery. Lots of it. In today's world, and most of all in developed countries, poverty will most likely mean a mass of what used to be educated, healthy middle class, becoming fat, sick, welfare dependant ignorant people. You already see this trend today, so its not as if you need a crystal ball to see where (in general, and within a margin of error) things are mostly heading to.
FerFAL





Blah I took a vacation to south Florida and Spain .......oh....wait....nvm.

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Link Posted: 1/31/2015 11:19:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Ferfal your basing your assumptions on your experiences with the economic collapse of a country who's  GDP and economic strength is comparable to California AT BEST.. NOT the entire USA as a whole. Granted looking at Argentina or any of the other examples we have from historical data can give good indicators of what we may expect it can in no way be considered to be conclusive. The US economy is MASSIVE.. greater than Argentina and the US during the great depression COMBINED.. You are also assuming that the living conditions and social economic makeup of Argentina is even remotely comparable to the US.. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The US is a very dependent on imports from other countries, even our agriculture is imported. The average Argentinian during their economic collapse did not have nearly as far to fall as the average American. This fact alone will cause major civil unrest.. The Argentina experience is a good lesson in history and something we all should look at from many angles but it is hardly a look into Americas crystal ball. Argentina may have been the jewel of the Latin world but it in no way compares with the far reaching scope of the US economic mess.
Link Posted: 2/1/2015 8:33:44 AM EDT
[#44]
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I really want to complain here that tinfoil-hat-style collapse is, on a very large historical scale, the rule rather than the exception... but you're right, people are neglecting to prepare for the most likely problems because nobody really wants to deal with decades of slowly declining standards of living.

There is also a pervasive attitude in the US that we'll be among the last of the developed nations to really go to shit, and that if we go down everyone else is going with us.    The latter has a lot of strong arguments; I'm not so sure about the former.
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Quoted:
You see, while in parts of the world war is destroying lives by the thousands every single day, and there is in fact true hunger in many countries, for those lucky enough to live in developed nations chances are they will be facing different challenges.



I really want to complain here that tinfoil-hat-style collapse is, on a very large historical scale, the rule rather than the exception... but you're right, people are neglecting to prepare for the most likely problems because nobody really wants to deal with decades of slowly declining standards of living.

There is also a pervasive attitude in the US that we'll be among the last of the developed nations to really go to shit, and that if we go down everyone else is going with us.    The latter has a lot of strong arguments; I'm not so sure about the former.


Interesting, I have thought about this a lot except I believe the opposite.  The U.S. will go down the hardest and the fastest.  Many many countries
have a large population that "knows" how to live in poverty.  They KNOW how to live off the land, they Know how to harvest food.  Americans have
become so dependent on government, supply lines and the flip of a switch they are clueless to any kind of independent thinking or survival skills.
Link Posted: 2/1/2015 11:54:16 AM EDT
[#45]

"Interesting, I have thought about this a lot except I believe the opposite.  The U.S. will go down the hardest and the fastest.  Many many countries
have a large population that "knows" how to live in poverty.  They KNOW how to live off the land, they Know how to harvest food.  Americans have
become so dependent on government, supply lines and the flip of a switch they are clueless to any kind of independent thinking or survival skills."

EXACTLY!!! Taking Argentina as a example. When their collapse started 10% of their population had a income 43 times higher than the other 90% of the population. This means they had virtually NO middle income group. You were either part of the upper 10% or you were poor and by poor I mean living on less than 2$ a day poor not our version of government subsidized welfare recipient poor. So your observation that they already knew how to live poor is spot on.  Also keep in mind the population of Argentina at the time was approx 36 million. California alone is 38 million, the US population exceeds 315 Million of those recent numbers indicate as many as 49% rely on the gov for some form of aid.. There simply is no historical precedent to draw on for predicting how a financial collapse would look in the US. However, to claim that those who know and understand this simple fact are paranoid because we won't accept that the US experience will be just like the Argentina experience shows a profound lack of understanding of the depth of our UNIQUE problem...
Link Posted: 2/1/2015 2:58:00 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:


Interesting, I have thought about this a lot except I believe the opposite.  The U.S. will go down the hardest and the fastest.  Many many countries
have a large population that "knows" how to live in poverty.  They KNOW how to live off the land, they Know how to harvest food.  Americans have
become so dependent on government, supply lines and the flip of a switch they are clueless to any kind of independent thinking or survival skills.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You see, while in parts of the world war is destroying lives by the thousands every single day, and there is in fact true hunger in many countries, for those lucky enough to live in developed nations chances are they will be facing different challenges.



I really want to complain here that tinfoil-hat-style collapse is, on a very large historical scale, the rule rather than the exception... but you're right, people are neglecting to prepare for the most likely problems because nobody really wants to deal with decades of slowly declining standards of living.

There is also a pervasive attitude in the US that we'll be among the last of the developed nations to really go to shit, and that if we go down everyone else is going with us.    The latter has a lot of strong arguments; I'm not so sure about the former.


Interesting, I have thought about this a lot except I believe the opposite.  The U.S. will go down the hardest and the fastest.  Many many countries
have a large population that "knows" how to live in poverty.  They KNOW how to live off the land, they Know how to harvest food.  Americans have
become so dependent on government, supply lines and the flip of a switch they are clueless to any kind of independent thinking or survival skills.

So far, I’ve lived in Argentina, USA and Ireland. I can tell you this much: At the end of the day people really aren’t that different. Yes, people in South America (and I’ll take the liberty here to assume that this extends to other 3rd world countries) they are a bit more “hardened” so to speak, complain a bit less, are a tad more used ot things not working, but for the most part your average Kardashian-fan 20 year old something in USA isnt that different from your Kardashian-fan 20 year old something in Argentina, Bolivia or Mexico. (Yes, it’s a global pandemic). The same can be said for your average doctor, your average manager or your average cubicle drone. People are FAR more similar than they care to admit. There’s welfare leaches in USA, there’s this guy in UK on benefits with 26 kids and you have hundreds of thousands of families living off benefits in Argentina as well. Cut benefits and welfare in any of these places and you’ll have very much the exact same reaction. People in the third world, they don’t know how to live off the land any more than people in developed ones. Actually, its in the few native American settlements left in the wilderness of the northen regions of Argentina that you see the worst cases of malnutrition and starvation, with this child recently starving to death.  Other than a few attempts to teach people to start their own community gardens, people in 3rd world countries know as much about farming as the average American.

Quoted:
Ferfal your basing your assumptions on your experiences with the economic collapse of a country who's  GDP and economic strength is comparable to California AT BEST.. NOT the entire USA as a whole. Granted looking at Argentina or any of the other examples we have from historical data can give good indicators of what we may expect it can in no way be considered to be conclusive. The US economy is MASSIVE.. greater than Argentina and the US during the great depression COMBINED.. You are also assuming that the living conditions and social economic makeup of Argentina is even remotely comparable to the US.. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The US is a very dependent on imports from other countries, even our agriculture is imported. The average Argentinian during their economic collapse did not have nearly as far to fall as the average American. This fact alone will cause major civil unrest.. The Argentina experience is a good lesson in history and something we all should look at from many angles but it is hardly a look into Americas crystal ball. Argentina may have been the jewel of the Latin world but it in no way compares with the far reaching scope of the US economic mess.

And you think Argentina doesn’t depend on imports to survive? :) Look, you obviously don’t know the first thing about Argentina, its economy, let alone its social structure and standards of living before and after the economic collapse. Don’t take this the wrong way, but the ignorance you’ve displayed so far is of such an extent that trying to educate you only to then attempt any meaningful discussion would be a huge waste of time.
Besides, and far more important, what’s Argentina got to do with any of this? In the original thread post, I didn’t mention Argentina once, not a single time. What I wrote about in the original post has nothing to do with Argentina. At all. These are things that are ALREADAY happening in U.S. When I talk about poverty in America, inflation, obesity, social violence, crime, I’m not making any guesses, I’m talking about a very clear trend that has been going on for years.  
FerFAL
Link Posted: 2/1/2015 6:07:44 PM EDT
[#47]

 so Im so ignorant you can't have a debate with me because I maintain that there simply are no historical precedents to indicate that a collapse of the US dollar will be just like the collapse of other economies in history?                 Is that correct?         WOW that's arrogance at its finest!!!   So tell me Sir, since i'm so ignorant and obviously have no understanding of economics either domestically or internationally  perhaps you could enlighten me as to where exactly you got your degree in Economics  and Business or Economic History.  Perhaps at the Universidad de Buenos Aires, or Universitat Pompeu Fabra in Spain?? Before you make some ridiculous claim like "Ive been there! " or "the school of hard knocks"  you should keep in mind that while your experiences in Argentina are interesting the memories of a 14-18 yr old boy are not a very solid foundation for making such authoritative claims about the possible future of a US Dollar collapse. If it's your OPINION then fine, that's great and I can respect that. However, to bash those who disagree with you as ignorant, paranoid doomsdayer's is something else entirely.
Link Posted: 2/1/2015 6:35:27 PM EDT
[#48]
Im not arrogant. You insist on Argentina. You're the one talking about Argentina, not me. As I said in the previous post, I'm talking about things that are already happening in USA and given the trend are likely to continue happening. No, I'm sorry, I can't educate you on Argentina right now. I've written tons about it already, use the search function if you're interested.
FerFAL
Link Posted: 2/1/2015 9:42:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Im not arrogant. You insist on Argentina. You're the one talking about Argentina, not me. As I said in the previous post, I'm talking about things that are already happening in USA and given the trend are likely to continue happening. No, I'm sorry, I can't educate you on Argentina right now. I've written tons about it already, use the search function if you're interested.
FerFAL
View Quote



LOL holy fuck..this from he Guy for over 10 years has been on his lil "it'll happen to the US...like It did Argentina .."
Kick...now its "use the search function " when folks don't lean his way  lmao...
Yes...people use that searc h function lmao...
Holy shit...
I'm getting to old to deal with this hillarity LOL


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 2/1/2015 11:44:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Interesting, I have thought about this a lot except I believe the opposite.  The U.S. will go down the hardest and the fastest.
View Quote

The experience of the Great Recession suggests otherwise.

FerFAL's prognostications about slow collapse and general impoverishment are vastly more probable than old school survivalist fairy tales about instant total collapse, zombies streaming out from the cities, etc. Plan accordingly.

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