I've been thinking about getting an older jeep lately just for fun.  It has occurred to me that it might be nice to have an EMP proof vehicle.  How old do you have to go until almost all of the vehicles are EMP proof?
Besides what model year to buy, what are some other considerations for this type of vehicle?

The threat of EMP is overblown, and modern vehicles are tested in EMP simulators today, and worst case they just need
to be restarted.

That said, to get to a vehicle that has absolutely nothing electronic you're going to have to go far, far, far back in model
years, and even then you'll likely still have electronics in the form of diodes in an alternator. Jeeps have had electronic
ignition since 1975 (breaker point ignition prior to that.)

Might as well go totally overboard and get a 1940s/50s era Willys.

Yup

OP, you might as well make the juice worth the squeeze, and get a real war veteran jeep.  You then could get to roll in parades, static display at the veteran day shows, do reenactments at the fair, etc.


Or get a '57 T-Bird and make your woman wear poodle skirts.

An older diesel 4x4 would be all mechanical and EMP proof. Ford with a 7.3 IDI or GM with a 6.2 or very early 6.5. Not sure on the Dodge engines. Someday I'll probably buy an older Ford or Dodge not for EMP protection but just because they are easy to work on and there's less to break. Even my 6.5 diesel isn't bad to work on compared to newer trucks. I'm not a mechanic by a long shot but I've fixed a lot on this truck in the driveway with basic tools.

Here's my answer to an EMP car.
Its a 1985 Diesel Mercedes Station Wagon with mechanical fuel injection.
I have several voltage regulators for the alternator put up and fuel stored up.
It has a trailer hitch and I have a small trailer for hauling items in.
I have a 4x4 F-350 Ford diesel Super duty already, and this car is just a bonus. I have the diesel car for if there is a fuel shortage and fuel gets scarce or high I have a means of transportation that gets good fuel mileage. 25mpg is about average. It's very easy to store diesel without fear of it going bad or exploding.
I do rotate out my fuel supply as a precaution also.
I believe more in a major fuel shortage will happen than an EMP, However I'm covered on both.





100% EMP proof engine, except the  alternator and its a very very simple fix. Its a 5 cyl 3 liter turbo diesel.



How to fix a bosch alternator. Just unbolt the regulator brush combo and bolt a new one in while the alternator stays on the car.
About a 15 minute job.





Trailer hitch.



Fuel reserves





How I keep my fuel fresh also along with rotating it out.

Wow

Did you import the hitch from Europe

my 85 cj-8 has 2 "computers" in it also. one for the POS for the carb and Another for the distributor. Yet they used the same basic wiring harness for the distributor (which is the same distributor on pre computer cjs) though. So to eliminate it isn't hard

That being said that is for reliability reasons not for EMP reasons

Mechanical diesel big rig. Can't haul 300 gallons of fuel with a jeep.

not necessarily.   You are thinking within the box.

Go for a mid seventies diesel, with mechanical fuel injection.    They use them around a lot of the SETI antenna sites, because they don't have the points type ignition that creates electromagnetic interference with the gargantuan and sensitive antenna.

However, if your reason is simply fear of EMP, there is no reason for that.   As previously stated, the threat to vehicles is largely overblown.   Your vehicle is unlikely to be permanently disabled by EMP, and if it is, you are close enough to the blast that the EMP is the least of your worries.


Edit:  I see I have been well beaten to the mechanical diesel idea.    Too slow, I am.

Oh I forgot here is an extra 100 gallon tank that can go in the trailer if need be for extra fuel.
You don't move this tank once its full, so it stays empty most of the time.











Yes the suspension is now beefed up to haul extra weight.
I had to remove the hydraulic suspension because of continuous problems.  

Everything, very impressive.  I especially love your fuel set up!

This thread is the first I've heard of EMP not being a threat to normal cars (beyond needing to be restarted) anybody want to recommend some further reading to me?

A few pounds of supplies and a long hill and I would be history.
I'd rather just give up than ride that every day moving supplies around to family members.

I try to keep things a little hidden. This is where my big 1200 gallon diesel tank stays.





This is my small gasoline tank.




I use this type gasoline.

2100 pounds of fuel in a jeep???? My jeep squats on the stops with 250 pounds of critter feed!

Cardio.

Bingo!

Oh, fuel trailer. Not a big fan of fuel trailers, but whatever works!

 

Bicycle. The VC moved everywhere and even carried supplies on them.

i would get a modern E-class Mercedes sedan, or a modern 5-series BMW sedan, or a modern Volvo sedan.

ar-jedi












ps:
it is FAR, FAR, FAR (did i mention FAR?) more likely you will be involved in an auto accident than finding yourself without a working vehicle due to an EMP.  for this reason, purchase the safest car you can afford, as annually about 35,000 people are killed in auto accidents and easily 10 times that number are seriously injured.  to put that in perspective, about 60,000 were KIA/MIA in approximately 20 years of fighting in Vietnam.  motor vehicle accidents kill more than that in two years, and disable many many more.  

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/iihs-top-safety-picks?page=0
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/48/9/1

Exactly, folks riding around in their puddle jumpers are really running a risk.

A friend who owns a dealership put his wife in a mickey-mouse car, blam got run into and her life [and his to a degree ] is messed up.

He could have easily put her into something much safer. You'd think he'd learned something, but no, still ride around in puddle jumpers, and he can afford anything.

What would get knocked out by the EMP is not the vehicle, but the filling station. Outside of Florida, there are few stations with even the interconnects for a portable generator to power the pumps. And when, in a worst-case scenario, the fuel runs out?

I suggest a spark-iginition engine and a wood smoke reactor, onboard or towed.

The fuel is chunks of wood. The control system is a mechanical link to a butterfly valve the size of a half-dollar.

The truck diesel has a computer, as do the cars.  That leaves me with the Kubota RTV or the airplane.  It has magnetos and mechanical fuel injection.

Here's an excerpt from the Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack, Chapter 6, Page 115:



Basically, vehicles aren't particularly vulnerable to HEMP for 3 reasons:

1. All of their wiring is relatively short in length. (Short electrical conductors make much poorer "antennas" for "receiving" HEMP than long ones do.)

2. A vehicle's metal body tends to shield any wiring within it.

3. Many automotive electrical devices (i.e., ignition system, electric motors, relays, solenoids, etc.) routinely produce voltage spikes as normal byproducts of their operation. Consequently, as a matter of habit, automotive engineers design their vehicle electrical systems to shrug off the same kind of voltage spikes that HEMP produces.

The post about florida fuel stations not having a way to run on a generator reminded me about the huge fuel station thread someone was nice enough to start.



I believe it is marked no archive so it is here somewhere I reckon.



I look at emp as something that might make me keep some spare parts around but I have to like a vehicle to have a vehicle.



The fella with the benz wagon did a thread where he fixed it up including some paint so it was more than just a buy it and own it sort of thing.



I would buy something with a carb and mechanical fuel pump and manual transmission or automatic without a computer and keep some spare parts for the electronic distributor around or if you want points keep a points distributor around.



I worked on a vehicle with points and was not impressed.  A high energy ignition makes life a lot simpler.  I can deal with points, I choose not to.



Something to really think about is the target on your back if no one else has a running vehicle and you are tooling along to get supplies or reach the bug out location or whatever.



It is similar to being the only one on the block with a generator.  Even if you quiet it down the light through the windows and what not can be a giveaway.



With house power you can manage by running blackout curtains and what not, but that moving vehicle is something of a hard thing to hide.

Here's mine.  It's a work in progress:

What about cars/trucks that have the keyless or the chip in the key. My Tacoma has a little chip in the key itself yet looks like a convention key and wife has the keyless/push start button on her Camry. Would that prevent a car/truck from starting? Basing question on where having the key typically on person than in an EMP proof container.

Just ground your vehicle buy letting a conductive rubber strap or chain hang from underneath and touch the ground.

A vehicle is a giant Faradays cage, it just needs to be grounded.

Truckers know all abt EMP and have been doing this from way back. Even before EMP.

The secondary benefit, it that when the wx is dry, you won't get zapped every time you slid off your seat and step to the ground.

You can find them online. I have the same hitch, but slightly different shape. I either got it off Amazon or Rock Auto or somewhere like that.

I understand that but the theft proof keys are just a simple computer allowing your car to start when its in proximity/in the ignition. The car/truck itself might be solid but say your in your office work, heck even at home and an emp goes off, whose to say your car/truck will start if your theft preventative key gets hit with an EMP? I don't know any tests that have been done on that but seems like a simple thing that could stall your BOV

Oh, then the solution is easy.

Leave your keys safely in the metal and grounded ignition hole, that's safely inside the giant Faradys cage... [That you remembered to ground, right]

Use the keylock buttons to access the inside of your car and keys.

If an EMP hits and the outside key unlocking buttons are destroyed, then break a window to get in.

That is a novel idea for sure, but kinda leads into the point of my mindset is having an older vehicle for a back up BOV. While the method you described would work something can easily happen that you either were rushed, forgetful or down right lazy that day. AT least if you get an older vehicle (early 80s late 70s) a lot can be found for around $1000 (if your will to buy a gun for that price a beat up car to me is a wise investment/insurance) but at least you could tear it apart learn it vs. doing that to your every day driver might be unfeasible.

But with the amount of anti theft vehicles around (specially in urban centers) and if an EMP did hit it would show even more desperate people than usual. It is something to think about if your plan is to bug out is looking for that "back up vehicle" Sometime next year we (wife and I) plan on looking for an old Bronco or Dodge Ram Charger or Chevy Blazer and go from there. Even if I never have to bug out at least we can go off roading in it and not have to worry about our daily drivers.

I was struck by lightening while driving a newer Chevy pickup. It didn't hit directly I don't think, but just a few feet away. Everything was bright, big ass bang and then I was blinded and couldn't see going down the interstate. Thought I had died for a few seconds.
The truck shut off and I coasted to a stop. Re-started it. The speedometer was a constant 20 mph fast, and the compass in the mirror was 180 degrees off. Pulled off at the next truck stop, put it in reverse and drive a few times and that fixed the speedo a few mph at a time. Got the owners manual out and recalibrated the compass. No further problems.
To think that a EMP attack would be more powerful than basically a direct hit by lightening to me is possible, but near zero chance of happening. The car is pretty well insulated with tires and not connected to the grid.
If you're really paranoid, keep a old carb'd car/truck in a metal building with a mechanical fuel pump and a manual transmission so you can push start it. Keep an extra ignition coil insulated in a metal box. Then don't end up like Tom Cruise in the War of the Worlds.

I talked with a kid who's Mitsubishi was struck by lightning.  Fried the electronics in the car, and it was totaled by his insurance company.

I have one of these for a SHTF vehicle. It can go just about anywhere, just not real fast. 4x4 with locking read differential. and with the bucket you can lift yourself over all sorts of obstacles

.

Although EMP can be produced by several different methods,  the only man-made kind that is capable of causing widespread damage is produced by detonating a nuclear weapon at a very high altitude (typically referred to as "HEMP"):



Every other form of EMP weapon is either a mere laboratory curiosity, or has a range too small to be useful against anything other than small, specific military targets (some examples of missiles and "e-bombs" described here).

So, unless you happen to live next door to an extremely high-value military target, HEMP is the only kind of EMP weapon you're ever likely to be within range of.

HEMP does its damage by inducing a very brief, high-voltage spike in electrical devices. This spike can be strong enough to burn out wiring,  "punch through" the thin semiconductor layers in transistors,  diodes and computer chips,  or cause the software in computer-controlled devices to go haywire.

HEMP energy is mostly concentrated at the low end of the radio frequency spectrum - i.e., well below 100 MHz:





Because of this trait, only fairly long electrical conductors (i.e., AC power lines, phone/cable/internet lines, big antennas, etc.) are capable of "receiving" a HEMP pulse in any significant strength. Physically short conductors make very inefficient "antennas" for receiving the low frequencies produced by the HEMP pulse, so they do not generate much of a voltage spike.

In devices that aren't connected to any long conductors, little or no voltage spike is generated due to HEMP, and so the device is unlikely to be damaged. Most small electronic devices (i.e., cell phones, portable radios, PDAs, laptop computers, digital wristwatches, flashlights, electronic combination locks on safes, red dot sights, security "chips" in vehicle keys, etc.) would fall into this category - The few inches (or fractions of an inch) of conductors present in these devices is simply too short to intercept any significant amount of the HEMP pulse, which means that no spike is generated within them that is sufficient to cause damage.

This also means that "Faraday Cages" aren't of much use against HEMP, because just about any device that is small enough to fit inside a practical Faraday Cage is too small to be affected by HEMP anyway.

The other, naturally-occurring kind of EMP is produced by solar flares (or "geomagnetic storms"), and is even lower-frequency than HEMP - which means that a conductor needs to be many miles long  to be affected by it. Some examples: High-tension power transmission lines, gas pipelines, undersea cables (copper, not fiber), and - back in the old days - telegraph lines. Other, shorter conductors are mostly unaffected.

Solar flares do not produce any of the fast-rising, high-voltage "E1" or "E2" spikes that HEMP produces in electrical conductors, so personal electronics are not affected by it. (Note that satellites can be damaged by solar flares, since they're outside the part of the earth's atmosphere that provides some shielding from solar radiation. Radio signals can also be affected, particularly in parts of the radio frequency spectrum that normally rely on bouncing signals off  some layer in the earth's atmosphere to make them travel long distances.)

Once again,  "Faraday Cages" are useless against solar flares, because any device small enough to fit inside a practical Faraday Cage is too small to be affected by solar flares anyway.

For Additional Reading:
Wikipedia entry on EMP
Wikipedia entry on Solar ("Geomagnetic") Storms
Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack
Federation of American Scientists: Nuclear Weapon EMP Effects
Glasstone's Blog
Jerry Emanuelson's Discussion of Soviet Test 184
ARRL Part 1 of 4-Part Article: Intro to EMP
ARRL Part 2 of 4-Part Article: EMP Protection Devices
ARRL Part 3 of 4-Part Article: EMP Implications for Communications
ARRL Part 4 of 4-Part Article: EMP Protection for Communications

the effects of a direct lightning strike are completely unrelated to EMP.

ar-jedi

There ya go, shoulda had a ground strap on his car...



The arc to ground prolly punctured a couple of his tires, at least, and let all the air out...

Perfect and thank you. The only reason the thought popped in my head was getting my wifes oil change the other day.

Even with this research I still think its beneficial of having an older BOV. Not that it has less electronics but able repair/upgrade/customize to what you want than doing the work on a daily driver just so you have peace of mind if a project goes longer than anticipated

Why you wanna stomp on some mans fantasy?

Some fantasies just need to be stomped.

I watched a video on youtube "facts of emp" or something else, they claimed many modern vehicles were tested for emp type attacks and all passed except for one which failed bad. Dunno how true it is or isnt.

As previously mentioned, you can read the test results for yourself. They're on Page 115.