I need some help/ input from ARFCOM!

While I already have a generator, after some carb related issues during the last 12 hour power outage the wife and I have decided to get another as a spare...  Considering we have a significant amount of food/ frozen goods stored we don't want to loose the ability to cool during the summer time should the power go out for a few days or a week.  I am not concerned about long term running, because we would start smoking our stored meat/ venison and BBQ on the grille every night should it look like the powers not coming back on.  My main goal is to make it through a reasonable power outage or brown out for a week or two.  Generator also powers our deep well.

I currently energize the our whole electrical panel through 240 and pick and choose breakers depending on what I want to run, like the well, lights, fridge, or freezer etc.

My current generator is a like new Coleman 5000W that I got used because it wouldn't run, which turned out to be a dirty carb.  It might have a total of 24 hours run time on it, most of which was during our last outage, and every few months when I let it run for a half hour or so.  I always keep a carb rebuild kit on hand for it and a minimum of 10 gallons of gas which is allocated for generator use.  10 gallons and a full take on the generator gets me roughly 30 hours of run time.  I have more gas stored but would only expend 10 gallons to the generator which would get us out at least one week in a realistic situation.
I also do all my own mechanical work and am very familiar with small engines so working on something not a problem so long as I can order parts online!

Any ways the generator needs to be capable of 240, that's how I plug into my system.
I don't want to spend a whole lot of money because this is going to be a "new spare" as my current generator is in very good condition.  I would love to buy a nice generac but its just not in my budget right now, maybe a few years down the road.

My original choice was a little bit smaller generator then my current so I can save a bit of gas if large loads aren't necessary:


Powermate  $219.00
Model # PM0103008
3,000-Watt Gasoline Powered Manual Start Portable Generator

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Powermate-3-000-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Manual-Start-Portable-Generator-PM0103008/203404861


I am just not sure if this will run my deep well and I don't want to cause it any unnecessary harm...  If any one thinks this will run my 240 3wire 1/2hp deep well (Gould pump control box located by pressure tank) then I might go this route, as it would use less gas when being run for longer periods of time, and I believe it would power my well run in increments, (only turned on when out of pressure) and fridge freezer, a few lights, and TV.  Plus its a $100 cheaper then my next two options...

My next two choices are these, similar or slightly more power then my current generator:


Homelite  $347.00
Model # UT905700
5,700-Watt Gasoline Powered Portable Generator

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Homelite-5-700-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Generator-UT905700/203138130?N=5yc1vZbx9n#specifications


Briggs & Stratton  $359.00
Model # 030548
5,000-Watt Gasoline Powered Portable Generator

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Briggs-Stratton-5-000-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Portable-Generator-030548/203180788?N=5yc1vZbx9n#specifications


Now I can't decide between the last two, I know both will power my deep well, both seem to be good deals...  The one has a Yamaha motor and has low oil shutdown, has a little bit larger gas tank.  The Briggs seems to look a little better construction wise as the outlets have covers, and the on/ off/ breaker/ switches are housed in rubber.  I like them both, but can't make a decision on which one to get.  Or maybe some one thinks I should get the smaller one?  Any suggestions would be great, just don't tell me I need a Honda or generac because I can't afford one!  
It will live in a small generator shed with my other one behind my house so its not like it will be stored outside.
So what is thederrick106 to do?  Which one should I get as a spare?

I would actually skip all of those and buy a Champion with 240V output. (Choose carefully-- 120V-only models are more common.)

The Champion 46598 can be found for $300-350 if you shop around.

That assumes that 3500W is sufficient for your use, though. Your well will determine that.

Champion...as stated above the 220v models less common

One of these?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/champion-power-equipmenttrade%3B-3500w-4000w-portable-generator

I guess I will have to post my deep well specs.  4000W should start it according to my research but a second opinion wouldn't hurt.

I am still leaning towards the briggs or homelite...  If I am going to go with a smaller one its going to be the cheaper powermate...  Again this will serve as a spare/ backup generator to my current one.

That's the one. If you zoom in on the outlets you'll see a switch right between the center outlet (which is a big 120V, 30A RV outlet) and the leftmost outlet. That switch flips from 120V to 240V mode.

If you like your current Coleman - and really don't want something a lot smaller as your spare generator - Then why not look for another identical Coleman?

It would give you commonality among spare parts. In a pinch, you could cannibalize parts from one generator to keep the other one running.

Also, you would already be familiar with troubleshooting and repairs - Nothing new to learn.

Also going cheap for an even more critical spare, than the primary once the primary fails, might not be a good idea.

I do like the Coleman which was made by Powermate (Tecumseh engine) same as the smaller one I linked to.  I like it most of all because I got it pretty cheap and pretty much new.  If I could buy another one new I would have already done that exact thing as two is one, one is none but this one went out of production several year ago if I had to guess.  Here are some pictures of it:





After another talk with the wife we are probably going to go with the 3000W Powermate for an additional generator.  

Thoughts:

Its a smaller generator but still has 240 output (which is needed to plug into my current setup.)
Being a little smaller it will save on gas consumption for longer power outages should we want to just run a few lights, fridge, freezer etc.
It is a Powermate, same brand as my current one which I am happy with.
Its not that expensive and I will save a little cash vs the other larger "budget" generators which will allow us to get a Generac a few years down the road.

While it might not power the deep well, I still have a like new generator that will, and overall its not that big of a deal, as I have a fresh water stream behind my house that's fed by a spring that starts part way up the mountain just beyond my property line. Plus I have our rain gutters plumed into one outlet so a 5 gallon bucket turns my gutters into a catchment system.  Generator power really is a luxury for us, as we heat 100% with firewood from our property, have several good water sources, and we don't even own a cloths dryer, etc.  I like to be self sufficient so keeping the storage freezer running for a week will really save us a lot of food.  Everything else is luxury.  Winter time is not an issue





I know but we already have a good working generator and don't want to sink a ton of money into another at this point, we are doing pretty well at paying of debt while building up savings and while a couple hundred might not seem like much to some, every little bit of extra in the savings counts.
I can work on just about anything that doesn't require a specialty computer plugged in (modern vehicles) so with a few spare carb kits on hand, fuel lines etc I could fix most hiccups short of a burnt piston or spun bearing.

The plan would be to run the larger generator should the power go out as we currently do and if it turns into a prolonged thing we would start running the smaller one to save on fuel etc.
As it is I don't get the generator out and hook things up for an hour two of power outage.  When restoration time is estimated as "tomorrow" I fire it up.

At under 220 bucks delivered - with a 2 year warranty - I don't see how you could possibly go wrong with it. It looks like one hell of a good deal.

The owner's manual doesn't include a wiring diagram, but the exploded parts list shows a "voltage regulator" and brushes, which means that has automatic voltage regulation ("AVR") - So, the AC power quality should be pretty good.

ETA: One of the Home Depot customers posted a good video review of it here.

Thank you for the links, I have read every review I could find on it but like most they have both good and bad.  I think it will fill the void we need covered pretty well...

Wow, under $220 is amazing.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/668846_Champion_generator_model_46598_3_5KW_running___4_0KW_surge___observations__details__and_photos.html

ar-jedi

good thread -- a couple of questions:


just help me out with your math here.  30 hours / 7 days =~ 4 hours per day run time.  this is plenty for bathing and such.  is it enough to heat your house in the dead of winter?


you can also get a 120Vac generator and bridge the phases in the cable, which *won't* net you 240Vac obviously (no well pump, for example) but everything that you could power now could be powered by a 120Vac-only generator.


no one on the internet can tell you definitively whether X generator will run Y well pump -- there are too many variables.  but you can tell us what rating dual pole circuit breaker is currently on the branch circuit to the pump -- is it 20A or 30A or other?   do you have or can you borrow a "clamp-type" inductive ammeter?  this would allow you to measure the running current of the pump and get an *approximation* of the inrush current at startup.  i say approximation because most generic clamp-type ammeters do not have a fast enough response time to accurately capture the peak current in the first few hundred milliseconds of operation.  you will need a higher end Fluke or equivalent ammeter to get a reliable inrush current measurement.

what happens now with the 5KW generator against the well pump?  does the voltage sag appreciably when the pump starts?  does the breaker pop if other (light) loads are running when the well pump starts?

ar-jedi

ps

are you sure that model is actually available?  have you tried to put it in your shopping cart?

I've had that generator for a few years and I have been very happy with it.

I paid $299.00 delivered from TSC. My UPS lady wasn't very happy.

I heat 100% with wood.  I do have electric baseboard as backup but we only used that once last year when we went to family's for a weekend and couldn't use the wood stove, we left one in the basement on to be sure it would stay above 55 while gone but it wasn't needed.





I already have a decent start on firewood this year, home to have the shed filled by mid fall.  That shed full will give us roughly 2 years worth of firewood.  Unless it stays below zero all the time then its probably only 1.5 years worth keeping the house @ 75*.  Obveously in a real longer term SHTF situation we could be a little more sparing on temp. but just keeping a flame 24-7 the temp is pretty much decided on its own unless we open windows.  If we were home all the time filling it and letting it go out then getting it restarted would not be an issue and we would use less fire wood.



The reason I really want 240 is because its plug and play with my current system.  No need to run lead cords etc.  The little bit smaller generator will serve us well in an extended outage as I will just use the larger one unless I know its going to be a drawn out ordeal, then I have an option with less fuel usage.



Breaker panel has dual 20amp for the well pump.  My current 5k generator has no issues with the pump, doesn't bog down or have any problems.  Of course when on generator power I run the well pump intermittently only turning on the breaker when we loose pressure.  I don't want to leave everything on and have it all decide to "kick on" at the same time and cause any unnecessary harm to the well pump, freezer, fridge etc.  Plus I know I have a fresh charge of water when we shut the generator down.  I should probably install a pressure switch with the manual option to switch on- and bring things back up to pressure.  If I look at the gauge and see we are low I just run water until it cycles the switch.

1/2 hp 3 wire...  Max amps on the hand written label is 6.  Everything I read states 3 wire pumps (external control box) require less starting power.



I thought they were available (the homelite) when I originally started looking a few months ago after our 12 hour+ power outage.  Oh well not a big deal as I have pretty much decided to go with the smaller one.  If the Powermate powers our well pump great, if not that's fine to as I have realistic expectations.  I figure the cheapest generator you can get is the harbor freight 2 stroke special at $100 or so and this generator is not much more, so it will give us an additional affordable option should we need it.  I can fix things... If for some reason both generators don't work I would try to borrow one from my father if not, oh well...  I don't NEED power!    Serious SHTF and I can tell you it would get used very minimally.  It will just be nice to keep the freezer cool in the summer and use that food up first, or keep it cold during a typical power outage.

My wife is all for getting this additional generator as she loves the idea of having power when it goes dark for 12-24 hours and being on the end of a feed line, it does happen to us (once already this year.)  I believe we are entering a different weather pattern and will continue to see what we consider abnormal weather.  She agrees that the smaller one would be better for us right now both price vs. utility.  Again my current Coleman (Powermate) is in great condition, runs great, and does what we need power wise so even without the additional generator we are better of the most.

Thanks for all the suggestions and reply's in this thread.  At least no one has said get both! (in traditional AFRCOM fashion.)

Mine wasn't, either.

The only issue I have had with mine was right at unboxing. It would not start at all. I called customer support and they told me there is a known issue with the low-oil switch sticking in transit. It was a five-minute fix and I've never had another problem out of it that wasn't of my own making.





Well done, as always.

That's only around 1400 watts, after it starts.

Considering that Powermate claims 3.75 KW surge power, it sounds like you shouldn't have any problems starting your pump with it.

I own two 5k watt Colemans Generators, one with a Subaru engine and the other with a Tecumseh engine; both are great generators and they were both purchased used (cheap).  You will want to buy some spare brushes for the Coleman.

My vote goes towards a identical Coleman 5kwatt generator, as you can find them cheap and the parts are interchangeable. If you want to go a different route, I would buy a 5500 watt Champion with 240v, and perhaps a Harbor Freight 800 watt unit (if you don't already own one).
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/817024-champion-power-equipment-6250w-5000w-gasoline-portable-generator.html#.U9rIP7FUeME
http://www.amazon.com/Champion-Equipment-41135-Generator-Compliant/dp/B0056BYQIK/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1406847180&sr=8-15&keywords=champion+generator+240v

EDIT:

Looks like you have the older Powermate generator, this is the syle I have:


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Powermate-5-000-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Manual-Start-Portable-Generator-with-Subaru-Engine-PM0435005-01/100676759?keyword=coleman+5000
Retail price is around $700-$800 bucks, but I bought both of mine for right around $300 gently used, and there are a ton of them out there.





Did some searching, seems most of those Champion units are only 120v twist locks, so be careful in selection, the one I linked to is a 240v but most are not. Also wanted to ad that I rarely see used Champions for sale (craigslist), however, as you know Colemans are everywhere.....something to consider if you are trying to save some money on a used one.

Thanks for all the reply's, links, and suggestions.  I just ordered the 3000W Powermate from Home Depot.  I will have to post some pics when it comes.

ETA/  Still on sale for a short time for any one else interested:



http://www.homedepot.com/p/Powermate-3-000-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Manual-Start-Portable-Generator-PM0103008/203404861?quantity=1&str_nbr=6160

we expect a thorough review of the new generator...  

ar-jedi

dammit, I bought one of those 3k gens too, THANKS ARFCOM