yup


2x4 vs 4x4 = beans vs no beans /

We use 4x4 frequently, and I agree with you.

I can't stand 2WD pickups in any kind of bad traction or soft ground.  6k vehicle with 2k on the driven axle.  And few people are hick enough to keep mudgrips on back axle.  With ford, we can't even order traction tires on the rear until we hit an F-450.  Now farmers and hunters that know their land may do OK, but in "uncharted" (to the driver) construction sites, medians, ROW, etc, they are a huge libility  when it slick.

As a BOV, they will do better as more weight is added to the rear axle.  Ditto 2WD SUVs do better.  A front wheel drive SUV/minivan or cut down VW revereses the situation and are very useful insnow/sand/mud.

I'm not much of a mudridder, but I've operated 4x4s and 2WDs from St Thomas to Barrow, AK.  I've spent far more time stuck in 2WDs then in 4 WDs.

BTW, outside Washington, most fed govt SUVs are 2WD.  GSA reams users on 4WD, probally because of the tendancy for the agencies who pay for it to use it.  I just rode last week in an NPS truck to a remote site in Utah via a 4-5 hour offroad drive, parts of which were likely not doable without 4x4.  I can't imagine the loss of value that truck sees, even with the operator babying it, as she did on this trip at least.

Mitsubishi evo. Watched a video of a guy racing skiers in the snow.

The comments on the subarus ground clearance are wrong on most models.  I had an 07 wk grand cherokee and many of the subaru vehicles had almost identical ground clearance as my stock wk grand cherokee.  



Something to consider on the 2wd vs 4wd stuff is when you have to turn around.  If a road is blocked and you have to turn around in the main road it is easy to wind up with an axle off the pavement, especially if you are in a hurry because perhaps someone seems to have blocked the road vs. a tree naturally falling over the road.  With an axle off the road a 4x4 has a better chance of getting itself back on the road easily.



Bad times are not the best time to be dealing with your vehicle that is fine for most stuff but not all stuff.



White cargo vans and mini vans really got my attention back when the DC shooters were in the news.  If you start messing with some of the views of cities and stuff you will see a ton of "generic delivery vehicle" types that most people ignore.



For a short while I owned an old crew cab chassis cab one ton chevy that had belonged to the phone company in the area.  It had all lights removed but its paint and stance were mostly used for those vehicles.  During construction stoppage one day, just sitting in line like a normal person, dude directing traffic pointed me out and waved me up.  He did a double take as I got up to him but at that point I was in the way so they let me on through.  Because the vehicle looked like the normal clipboard and hardhat phone truck it got special privelage.  



I like how dodge does the winch on the power wagon pickups.  Lots of folks don't really notice that it has a winch but those in the know will pick out special edition vehicles like that.



Kind of like that 91 burban pictured above.  I notice those because they are the last of the boxy burbans and have the latest engines and transmissions offered from the factory in that body style.



Depending on what you need there is no perfect vehicle.  And this does become a bit like your ccw piece.



Having a 44mag revolver at home in the desk means nothing when you are out on the town and wishing you had just a puny little 380 or 5 shot snubby or anything.  A gun on you means so much more than what you left at home.



So if you drive a hundred miles to work and need a car with excellant fuel mileage but keep your 6 mpg bug out vehicle at the house, you might want to find a compromise that will work.



Biggest thing that stands out with vehicles is big lifts, mud tires, big bumpers and winches sticking out of the vehicle, and other major additions that are not stock or even trying to hide like stock.



To some extent on a wrangler around here a little bit of bolt on stuff almost seems stock.  I do a double take if I see a 7 year old wrangler that is 100% stock.

Our 13 Outback has almost the exact same ground clearance as our xterra with OE BFGs from the offroad model.



I cant wait to see the new 14 power wagon. Every vehicle I've bought has been vanilla and totally resonponsible. It may be my first "fun" vehicle I buy.

I would also like to add a +1 on a subaru outback / wagon type of vehicle.  its not screaming HEY Im the guy with all the shit, come steal me / take me on, but also will haul a fair amount of stuff, decent mileage, and the AWD is good for most driving situations.  if you need to get up a jeep trail, you will need a jeep, which is a shit vehicle for hauling gear, so if you think you really need that jacked up jeep go ahead, but mileage and capacity suffer.

I for one like a more civilized SHTF so I opted for the X3.  

No they get stuck.......as do Dodge Chargers if enough bodies get under them.

limo!  

Mid 90's Ford Bronco. Nothing too pretty, but no total beater either. Get the 5.8L (351W), and a manual transmission if you can find one. Go through the powertrain, and suspension. Nothing wild. Spend extra on the tires, but no flashy rims. Quiet exhaust, all low key. Look for one of the "Sport" versions, that were monochrome colors, and had no chrome. Manual hubs.

Room to seat five pretty comfortably. Old school V8 without a lot of high-tech nonsense. The transmission is as tough as nails. No muss, no fuss.

Yes, I do have a project Bronco in the garage, waiting for spring, and a for money to get a little freer.

Jeep Grand Cherokee with the diesel and quadra drive II 4x4. Keep stock height with top end all terrains and maybe get a hitch mounted, portable winch. Pretty low profile, but can go many places with that engine and drive train combo... I have one and drive it 100 miles a day for work.

Subaru Outback, turbo (XT) model.

Next time you drive through a parking lot, look at how much stuff dangles down underneath most SUV's and trucks, then go look at a Subaru Forester or Outback. Nine inches of ground clearance is no joke, and skid plates are available from Primitive.

On a different note, many of these SHTF discussions fall into the same trap. Only preparing for the most catastrophic situations, at the expense of more likely scenarios. A lot of you guys seem to have a singular focus on off road capability. That's not the only thing you may need in a disaster. Having a fast vehicle can also come in handy. Personally, the excellent acceleration my car has gotten me out of two sketchy situations. Off-roading? While I've hopped a few high curbs to make loading in some heavy equipment easier, it's never been a potential lifesaver. Unrefueled range and water fording are also things to consider.

As for stealth, nobody would expect this to hold as much as it does, or be really fast.

Not sure how you guys haven't brought up the FZJ80 yet land cruisers are where it's at with front and rear lockers.

Subaru WRX

Not only is it a world rally championship car it will get away from just about anything on 4 wheels.

 

Subaru Outback or Forester.  Slap some rainbow and “love the earth” stickers on it.  Good gas mileage, all-wheel drive, handles great on the highway and good ground clearance.  With the stickers, no one will think “guy with loads of good stuff” instead, they’ll think “just a tree hugging lesbian”.

semi truck. easily hold 300 gallons of fuel, and impressive mileage when empty.

4WD SR5 T4R



Looks like a soccer mom car, but does everything you would want it to do.  Well, almost, but to do more you would have to give yourself away.

3rd gen (2006 in this case) is the best IMO; current gen is BIG and says I'm rich.

Subaru Outback Ultimate Sleeper BOV. It packs the goods, and doesn't scream tactical.  In the North East, every other car on the road is a Subaru. You blend right in with the sheep.

This. I have a mid 80's looks like total shit box on the outside. Interior is fair condition put a heavy gauge steel lock box In the rear bolted to the floor for $350 bucks. It cost me $5000 for the truck $375 to get a tune up. $350 for the box and another $500 for a front and rear class IV hidden hitch. Bought a 10k winch had it mounted on 3/4" hardened steel plate and had it bolted and welded to a hitch receiver. Fits front or back with heavy duty hitch pin. All of this as A/T tires I have $7500 invested in an extremely capable vehicle as at home on the asphalt as it is on the trails.

I like the subarus, but with a growing family of 4 plus a GSD and gear its still not big enough.  Too bad Chevy doesn't bring back the Astro...

Winner.  Want a good SHTF vehicle? Then just buy one of the most popular vehicles used in places where S already HTF.  FZJ80.
Solid axles, lockers at both ends and middle, excellent approach/departure, full-time 4x4, blends in nicely, has an engine that will run on any fuel loosely defined as gasoline, comes standard with a 25gal fuel tank, excellent cargo capacity for an SUV.

Have you checked out the most recent gen of outback? Surprisingly large.

Can I put my $.02 in?

Mine is a early 2000's Ford F250 gasser

In the city, it is terrible for stealth to a degree as most people drive cars

In my small town, unless you are a truck person and notice every big thing out there, its navy blue color doesn't stick out much. Having a clean vehicle helps alot too. Just cleaned and it glimmers too much. Too dirty and everyone notices it.

It is roomy as Hell in front and has a bed big enough for most jobs. It has enough stock ground clearance to not get stuck on curbs but its low enough where it doesn't look lifted

Wow, thanks for the tack.

I have been super busy, but I will read what everyone has posted. Thanks.

One thing I want to add is I'm not talking about a bug out vehicle (although it could be that as well) but what I am suggesting is an everyday driver Before SHTF that will hold essentials that MAY include weapons (or not) but WILL include highly useful expensive gear you would rather not lose to theft because your car (or truck,van) stands out as a tempting target for raiding.

Such gear may go beyond a get home bag, it may be a bug in situation where ever you may be and may mean you are stuck there for a long while (no choice) so the more gear the better to make your stay more secure and comfortable.

Now I know just about any mild mannered grocery getter will suffice, but it would ALSO be nice if it was a little more capable than mom's old Oldsmobile....

Best SHTF vehicle is completely dependent upon multiple variables.  First, are you bugging out, if so how far do you need to go, how much do you need to take and what types of terrain will you traversing.  Second, how many people will you be carrying and how much stuff - if your stuff is prepositioned, and you'll be travelling solo, then a KLR might be the best stealth BOV, assuming the right weather (another variable).  

For my situation, family of 6 and a dog.  Preps here at the house and at BOL, so if we head to the BOL, we'll be packing a lot.  Bug out routes include possibly crossing a mountain pass over 10k feet.  Secondary and tertiary routes are both dirt and during certain times of the year, 4x4 are a necessity.  Given this, we have an Excursion w/ the 7.3 td 4x4.  44 gallon take, never less than 1/2 full will get us to all possible BOLs.  The Ex will tow close to 12k lbs.  Plenty of space for fam and a full load inside, plus on top.  Works for us, but not necessarily for others.

That Excursion must be huge.

For a family of 5 or less, I say it again; Jeep Grand Cherokee with 4x4 Quadra Drive II and the 3.0L diesel; at stock height it really is a sleeper and few take a hard look at it. Tows 7500 lbs, 20+ mpg, locked front a rear axle. 22 gallon tank = 450-550 mile range.

Is this a conversion or a concept vehicle?

They aren't small, but they drive better than most half ton trucks.  The turning radius is better on our excursion than on my inlaws extended cab F-150.  I absolutely love ours.  You can't touch the stock range with another SUV, you can't even get close.  We get between 15-18MPG overall, and can crest over 21MPG on the highway.  I get on average 700-725 miles on a single tank.  I can tow 11K, and can put 1600lbs inside.  I can get 8' lumber inside if I need to, or I can fit 7 people comfortably with almost 5' of cargo room behind the third row.  
THe problem with your suggestion of the Grand Cherokee with the diesel is that they are mythical beasts, who can only be found after slaughtering a unicorn with a lightsaber under a harvest moon while bedding a virgin.  Even then, your chances are about 50/50.
Excursions with diesel on the other hand can be found without slaying mythical beasts during specific sky based phenomena.  Which is much more convenient.  Other than the exhaust, they don't stick out any more than any other full sized SUV, and around here no one bats an eye at the rumble coming from the tailpipe.  Around here no one bats an eye at a 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel truck either though, we sort of live in a rural based community.  My point is, the vehicle doesn't stick out, has a greater stock range than anything else it can be compared with (and Ford makes a factory second tank conversion, doubling the capacity to 88 gallons if you want), has all the power and economy of a diesel, better towing ability than any other SUV, better payload than any other non truck vehicle, great seating, 4x4 if you want it, and it drives great.  I don't really see why this is even a comparison.  
Oh yeah, stock height they can take 295/75/16s which measure out to be roughly 33s maybe even a touch more.

Ok, you win. You're actually making me want one now (and that's hard because I love my JGC). 88 gal of diesel and stock 33" blows everything away. Have you considered up-armoring that thing? Also, pics damnit.

How about AWD Chevy Astro.  Just dont lift it.

http://www.motorstown.com/30883-chevrolet-astro-4wd.html

http://www.motorstown.com/images/chevrolet-astro-4wd-07.jpg

Unimog.

On this board you have at least one person who used to own a grand cherokee with the diesel and I know of one other who posts pics in this section but I think there is another one who posts in some 4x4 stuff in the cars and bikes section but does not mess around in this section much.  I have had several folks asking my opinion of them when they see some old posts I made.



Then again I know of a few folks with excursions with the 7.3 diesel on this site as well, they are not all that common.  Neither is a dodge power wagon but we have one of those around as well.



The excursion is just a 3/4 ton ford crewcab short bed pickup with the whole thing turned into an suv, it was fords answer to the suburban.



Turning radius is a big deal to me, an uncle had a little subby wagon of some sort and it sucked at tight turns into parking spots.  My grand cherokee astounded him and it spoiled me.



OP needs to figure out what he is after.



I kind of laughed when someone said anything but ma's oldsmobile.  Had a kid buy a toyota corolla with some major issues for about the price of scrap.  He got some kind of "rallying" tire, basically a little tire for the car size but it had off road type tread.  That sucker went all over the place until he finally scrapped it.  He kept the tires and rims and sold em to someone and wound up at least breaking even while having some fun.



Pay close attention to ground clearance, really pay close attention to how many tires are motivating the vehicle at one time, and go from there.



The grand cherokee with the diesel I had was about the exact same ground clearance as a stock subby of several sorts.  Yeah the quadradrive II was silly awesome but when you consider some repair prices for that stuff you might change your mind a tad.



Depends on what you are after.



I simplified.  I don't really recomend it for everyone but when closely examining repair costs on the drivetrain of that diesel grand I quickly figured out I would probably need a 2nd job or enough overtime to equal a 2nd job.



Since they are not that common I got rid of it before the new ones hit the lots, but the new ones had been announced.

I was stumped why no one said this yet.  Love my 97.

 

Mine is stock everything but the tires, which are 285/65R16s (just a hair shy of 33", it works out to 32.83" in tire height)  You can fit one size larger tire on it, even with the extra trim of the Limited model like mine.  I have a confession to make, mine is only a 2wd.  I got a great deal on it when I bought it, it was $8k cheaper than the most comparable 4x4 Ex I could find, and only 20K miles on it. Even so, it does everything I need to do but drive on the sand.  Don't try to take an excursion on the sand, its a terrible idea.   This is an older pic, but the wife took it to work today, so I can't go snap a picture.

Some other members here have much better looking Excursions than I, but this thread is about not drawing attention to your vehicle, and mine doesn't draw attention.  


ETA:  I remember seeing a second fuel tank for the excursion, and thought I remembered seeing one using factory auxililary set up from the 250, but I can't find it now.  So, I retract my statement of it being a Ford kit, and correct it to being an aftermarket kit that adds 40 gallons, bringing the total up to 84 gallons of capacity.  Here is a link to a 30 or 40 gallon kit

The common denominator, throughout this thread...

Seems to be the best BOV, is the one the poster owns...

As Patch states they are large, but they don't garner much attention.  Ours is chipped and set on performance, so our mileage is 14-16 mpg.  The wife can hit 21 mpg on the freeway - I've never been able to, but she actually does the posted speed limit.  

The Ex's are built on a 3/4 ton truck frame and weigh in at close to 7000 lbs.  Mine is an '02 and has the solid axle front, so it actually has surprisingly good articulation.  They are pretty common in this area, so they don't stand out at all.  We like it so much that we've almost bought another one on a number of different occasions.  

Mine is essentially the same as Patch's (the Limited Edition), mine's a different color and is a 4x4.  We run BFG All Terrain TAs (285/75/16 and they are just barely under 33".  At that size, the voids in the tires are pretty large and shed mud extremely well.  

Sadly, Ford stopped making them around '06 (maybe '05), but if you want a new one, the guy I bought my Ex from, in OK, actually converts Ford F250's and F350's (any year from 2000 - 2014) to an Ex.  IIRC, he charges about $30k for the conversion.  

There is someone on this side of the country that does as well.  I have a picture of one I spotted in 2012, a 7 door F-450 based dually Excursion.  Its not exactly lowkey, so I'm not going to post the pic unless you guys really want to see it.  Its freaking huge.

Same guy I mentioned also stretches 4 door trucks and excursions to six doors.  Talk about a big ass vehicle.



2011 Excursion

This is the one I saw.

Sorry OP, a bit off topic

I have many of the "holy grails" of BOVs mentioned in this thread  (probably because I have read too many of these threads over the last decade):

1989 Suburban 3/4 ton (straight front axle, 350, TBI, TH400 for the win!)  Gets 11 mpg no matter what you do, don't go much over 65 unless you like wandering all over the road.  Great off road, not so much fun on road.

2003 Tacoma Double Cab 4x4 TRD with locking rear axle- I think it has a 2.5" lift on it which was put on by the previous owner.  Great for true off roading, not much room either in the cab or bed (I think the next generation has more).  Gets about 20 mpg on the highway if I drive it right.

1996 Dodge 2500 xtra cab long bed 4x4 with Cummins and NV4500 (P7100 injector pump) - great truck, not much room in the back for the family, big turning radius. Gets about 18-19 mpg if not towing.  EMP proof.

2001 Excursion with 7.3 diesel- Great for family trips, room in the back and towing.  Gets about 18.5 on average on long trips, 10 mpg towing a fairly heavy toy hauler.   Very heavy vehicle, not fun to get unstuck.  The 4x4 is there to get you out of trouble, not to do true off roading with in my opinion.  If you really want to off road it, it would likely need a lift, and even then it is too big and too heavy.

2003 Outback and 2004 Forester- Daily drivers for wife and I.  Do great in the snow until they high center.  My forester gets 30 mpg in winter and 33 in summer.  Wife's outback gets 25 mpg in winter and 27 in summer.  Lack of a two speed transfer case limits their usefulness in true off road situations.  Wife's needs new head gaskets (like many or most do between 120-150k), supposedly the problem was fixed after 2006, but who knows?

My take?

Each one is a tool and works well for its' specific job.  Decide what your real needs are, and look for a tool that fits the bill.  If you add up all the money I have paid for the vehicles, it is around $50k (over the last 10 years).  This is about what one pays these days for a new 3/4 or 1T diesel.   I always pay cash for them after I have saved up.

I buy all my vehicles used, and shop around for what I want.  I do the work on them myself (oil, clutches, timing belt/water pump, fuel pumps, radiators, etc- still thinking about if I want to pull the Outback engine myself to do the head gaskets).  The dodge has over 200k, the ex almost 200k, the others all over 100k miles.  I pay less because someone else has taken the hit on depreciation.  This allows me to have the right tool for the job when I want to do something (Tacoma for off road stuff, dodge for when I really need a pickup, excursion for long trips, suburban is now relegated to snow plow duty).

I have high hopes that the Dodge, Excursion, and Tacoma will all last me another 10-20 years+ as they only get around 5k miles or less per year put on them.  They get used when needed for a specific task.

The subarus will get replaced around 200-250K with newer ones, as they get the bulk of the miles on them.

If I were to have only one vehicle, likely a newer tacoma double cab would be the most versatile- it has a bed, although small, I could fit all 5 of my family in it, although they would likely complain on long trips, you can truly off road with it, and can probably get 19- 20 mpg with it on the highway.  As you can see, everything is a matter of compromises and deciding what you really want/need.  After the tacoma, I would think that one of the Subarus would be the most versatile (and get 40-50% better mileage).

If I were going to have two vehicles it would likely be a subaru and a tacoma, or a full size truck (maybe an F150 double cab, titan or tundra) depending if I was intending to use it more for 4 wheeling (tacoma), or hauling stuff/people (full size).  You don't really need a diesel unless you are towing, but they sure are nice when you do.

There ya go inserting logic into a perfectly good "fire plug wetting" contest

Speaking of 'plugs', I gotta go change the plugs in an F150 type engine and it will take all day 'cause it's a bitch to do and access them.

Then, if I don't break off a plug   ---that is common to do, it will be a good day.

So a bit of levity is understandable...




Also, I din't know they were making Excursions again... Good!

@Patch, that thing is huge, did he go dual wheel on the back or just one big tire - can't tell from the pick.

@juslearnin, that is  a nice collection you've got there.  We are considering moving to our BOL, which would add to my daily drive and we've thought about the Subarus.  They are hugely popular in this area.  My only complaint about our EX is the mileage, but we really don't drive that much (I drive 8 miles round trip to work and the wife doesn't work), so it hasn't been a factor.

Ford isn't.  The one's I posted were customs made by a guy in OK.

Finally someone gets it. Its kind of like the best gun you own is the one you are carrying when you need it.

I may not ackshiully get it, but I finished changing all the plugs in my BOV tonight.  

What a pain the Ford Trident engines are to change the plugs, ---didn't break any! Engine seems to be noticeably smoother, old plug gap went from 55 thou new to abt 85 thou at 125k miles.

The F150 and the Expedition are excellent BOVs IMHO... The BESTest!   Surprise, surprise...

I used the smallest Dewalt impact and first sprayed Electroclean... [ trichloroethylene] in the plug well, let sit a couple minutes, then gently tighten a bit, reverse, repeat a couple times, then get the plug to move loose a tiny bit then the solvent passes into the threads.

Some 'hidden' plugs, the real tough ones, I took out the old fashioned way.

Then carefully remove. But there's lot's more to it than I described...

Dealer will charge abt $700 I think and then they might try to break a couple cause they charge about $300 for every one they get to fix.  

SO--- I figger I saved enough to pay for a nice tubular steel device. Plus I learned a lot, fixed some other stuff, know the back plugs were NOT left loose     and lost the fear of doing it, a skill that will stay with me a long time, hopefully....



Now, with this skill, if I should have to BO, and a plug, electronic injector, or a coil on plug sparky thing fail...

And I've carried these parts for a long time... And a couple special tools... [But never really learned the ropes]  I can fix this along the road quickly!

Well they are great machines...

ram 3/4 with 33"s and a cap.  

       2013 Toyota 4Runner Trail Edition