Buddy Heaters to Heat House?

OK, we all have concern this winter for extended power outages, and short of "true comfort" and just making it several days w/o pipes freezing.

So I wanted to run this idea past the folks here.  The house has decent insulation, argon windows, etc.  

My concern is a few days to a week well below freezing.  Do you think two Big Buddy heaters in the basement, running 20lb tanks on each, on it's lowest setting, be able to keep the whole house above freezing for five days?  Will I need two 40lb tanks to achieve this?

Being that heat rises through the house, and the fact that we all won't be living/sleeping in the space where it is consuming O2, is this a possible solution to the problem?

The Big Buddy heater is rated for something like 18,000 BTU/hr.

In the past I have attempted to use two 23,000 BTU/hr kerosene heaters in the basement to keep pipes from freezing in sub-freezing weather conditions for several days at a time. It worked for the basement and first floor, but did not work all the way up to the second floor where I had several baseboard radiator pipes freeze and burst.

That was in a drafty older house with somewhat poor insulation in the walls.

I would be concerned about having 20 lb (or larger) propane tanks inside the house. Maybe I'd be OK with the small propane bottles.

From my experience, they wouldn't be enough.

The Big Buddy has 3 heat settings. On its lowest setting, it produces 4,000 BTU of heat, which would run for around 460 hours (or 19 days)  on a 20 pound tank of propane:

Hours = ( 91,690 BTU/Lb. / Heater BTUs ) X ( Tank Size in Lbs.)

With 2 heaters running, you're producing 8,000 BTU of heat, all the time.

If you assumed that the outdoor temperature averaged 0 degrees F, you would only need to increase the house's inside temperature by 32 degrees to keep it from freezing - and that doesn't require NEARLY as much heat as would be needed to keep it at a comfortable 72 degrees.

8,000 BTU might work, if your house is well enough insulated.

I would use a 23,000 btu kerosene tower heater instead.

Would a basement get cold enough to need heat to avoid freezing?

Do not attempt to use tiny portable heaters to heat an entire house normally heated by a 100KBTU/hr+ furnace. Learn how to shut off the water and drain the plumbing, and if you have hydronic (hot water) heating either learn to drain that system or ensure it has glycol in the loop so it won't freeze. Then focus on using a small heater to heat one closed off room where you can stay comfortable. Ensure a working CO detector is in that room. The alternative is to ensure you have a generator and fuel supplies to keep the normal heating system operating.

Again, he's not attempting to heat the house up to room temperature - only up to above freezing. If that's only a 30 degree temperature difference from the outdoor air temp, he's not going to need anywhere near 100 KBTU of heat to accomplish it.

Also, a 100KBTU furnace doesn't run all the time - which means that it's only contributing some fraction of 100KBTU to heating the house:
50 percent duty cycle = approx. 50 KBTU of heat produced, 20 percent duty cycle = approx. 20 KBTU of heat produced, etc.

If a 100 KBTU furnace runs 8 percent of the time, it's contributing the same amount of heat* as these two buddy heaters.


*Assuming the furnace is perfectly efficient - In the real world, a sizable amount of that 100 KBTU is actually going up the flue.

SkiB, I think 91,690 BTU's refers to ONE GALLON of propane.

One pound is about 22,000 BTU's.

So a 20 pound tank only filled to about, say 17 pounds, [like from an exchange service] would be about 90 hours @ 4000 BTU/hr ––-without doing the calcs.

Propane consumption is a lot more than folks might think if they aren't used to using it.

Yes, however that furnace has been incorporated into a system to distribute the heat produced relatively evenly throughout the house. Trying to emulate it with little spot heaters is a recipe for disaster. A friend tried heating his house with a wood stove instead of his regular oil/hydronic system. It kept the living area pretty comfortable, while the pipes in the basement and outside walls froze and broke. If you are improvising heating drain all the plumbing, it's the only safe way to go.

Yep, you're right!

A 4,000 BTU heater would last around 93 hours (a little less than 4 days) on 17 pounds of propane.

You need to figure your heat loss at your design temperature.  It doesn't matter what temperature you want to keep the house at.  If your house looses 100k BTU per hour at 0 degrees outside temperature you are going to need to add 100k BTU per hour when it is 0 degrees outside just to maintain temperature.

To get these numbers you are going to need to talk to somebody that has the heat loss/gain software to figure it out.

8k BTU from a couple Buddy heaters in the basement will just be pissing in the wind.

The furnace will run a lot more when it is 0 degrees than it will at 60 degrees.

No. It matters GREATLY what temperature you keep the house at.

The heat required is totally dependent on (1.) the difference between inside and outdoor temperatures, and (2.) the insulative abilities of the house.

The greater the temperature difference, the faster the heat loss.

As a very rough rule of thumb, increasing your indoor temperature by 10 degrees F requires twice as much heat - which is why reducing the thermostat setting by just a few degrees can have a major effect on your heating bills.

My basement has gotten cold enough to for pipes to freeze during prolonged winter utility outages.

If the LNG furnace is down, I use a Portable Buddy on it's lowest setting in our basement laundry room to keep the pipes from freezing. All of our household plumbing originates in that room, so spot heating for me couldn't be easier. I can also shut off and drain the outside hose lines from there, and once those two lines are drained I don't have to worry about them.


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A monitor heater would be much better. They are a bit pricey, but 93% efficiency and not affecting your internal air supply are worth it IMO. Plus you can easily get a size that will cover your needs. I heat with two of then year round - the big one will easily do the whole house (1400 sq feet upstairs, basement is below ground and doesn't need heat assuming the upstairs is warm) but we have a small one in the bedroom just 'cause. I've never had any issues with pipes freezing (temps. getting down into single digits frequently). Even with current Kero prices I'd estimate it is costing us <50% compared to the one month I ran the propane furnace. Our power was out for a week starting Christmas morning a couple years back - on one small crappy generator I ran the monitor, a fridge, fish tank, some lamps, and had enough juice left to light the tree. Ran the main room up above 70 just idling on low with no fuss as always.

The secret is they take the air for combustion from outside instead of burning of the warm air and oxygen from inside, and they exhaust outside. I run them when no one is home all the time, as they are designed.

There was one in the house when we bought it. Everyone around here has them. People that experience them often get them and we are in a big pocket. Otherwise most people have never heard of them.

The big one is an original version (MPI monitor 40) that has had limited service and is 25-30 years in. The one in the bedroom is a Toyo and has 8 year with no work at all.

The guy freezing pipes with a wood stove has too big of a house for one stove, or more likely isn't running a blower on it. I can turn the whole house into a sauna with ours.


I'm not current on which are the most reliable now, but as an example of a little one -

http://www.monitorheat.com/oil_products.html#2200


Specifications


High


High/Medium


Medium/Low


Low
BTU Rating / Hr 22,000 17,400 12,400 9,600
BTU Output / Hr 18,261 14,441 10,290 7,970
Fuel Consumption
Gallon / Hour .164 .13 .09 .07
Fuel Source

"Separate Tank" or optional 1.32 Gallon Internal Tank
Fuel Type

K1 Kerosene or High Quality, Low Sulphur No 1. Stove Oil
Power Source

Electric 120 V AC, 60 Hz
Dimensions

26" H by 20.9 W" by 12.4" deep
Weight

55 lbs. empty


Heating capacity of 1000 sq. ft. Efficiency 93% gross, 88% net AFUE

I have used my Big Buddy heater to heat my Tiny house.  House is 650 SQFT and drafty.  It will run for a week on one 20 lb tank.  It runs for 2.5 days on High.  It keeps the house fairly warm.

Just a FYI for you to look into. I looked into this a while back. Using a 20 lb. propane cylinder indoors violates local fire codes in most areas. The problem with propane is that it is heaver than air. This means if there is any kind of leak, the propane will sink and accumulate at the lowest part of the house. It creates an atmosphere for an explosion. Be careful.

I will not use the 20lb or more inside.  Thank you for the advice.