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Posted: 10/2/2012 4:44:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Lehman's has a galvanized bucket.
I built one out of piece of 3" PVC and a check valve for about $10, not including the rope. |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 4:53:47 PM EDT
[#2]
"bucket" was the keyword I was thinking of, whereas I was searching on "basket".
Found lots of hits now. Thanks. |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 5:19:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Post what you find, somebody else will like the info.
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Posted: 10/2/2012 5:30:34 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 10/2/2012 5:35:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Yeah they had a hole in it so it would go down but you could still pull it out
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Posted: 10/2/2012 5:49:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Edit: Sorry...read the OP too fast.
 But I'll leave the links since they might be of interest. http://www.ebay.com/itm/WELL-HAND-PUMP-BUILD-YOUR-OWN-Deep-Well-Hand-Pump-Deep-/261030000697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item3cc699b839 http://www.wisementrading.com/water/well_pumps.htm http://www.simplepump.com/OUR-PUMPS/Hand-Operated.html http://www.bisonpumps.com/deep-well-hand-pump.htm |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 6:27:57 PM EDT
[#7]
To use a well bucket, you know you must first pull the electric pump out, right?
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Posted: 10/2/2012 7:39:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
To use a well bucket, you know you must first pull the electric pump out, right? exactly. good luck doing that if your well is deeper than about 30 feet. 
see http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/659458_Well_water_when_power_goes_out.html&page=1#i11259560 and http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/658134__ARCHIVED_THREAD____How_to_get_water_from_your_well_with_no_electricity_.html&page=1#i11236590 and http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/651558__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Why_do_you_need_a_generator_.html&page=3#i11116047 ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 7:53:05 PM EDT
[#9]
You could, conceivably , in a dire situation, use a very long length of pvc pipe, say 15 feet or so that is small enough to go down. Drill several small holes in the sides about a foot from the top, and glue a fine wire mesh over them for a filter. Then , drill a couple of large holes near the very top to slip a rope or cable through. Cap the bottom end with a pvc cap, and weight it if necessary as well so that it sinks.
When you lower the pipe down and it enters the water, water will rush in through the holes and mesh near the top. When you pull it out, all of the water in the area ( say the 12 feet or so ), under the holes, will stay full. If you use a support high enough above the well, you could pull the thing completely out of far enough that you can see the bottom cap. If you can do this, then it would be a good idea to install a petcock valve at the bottom of the cap. All you need to do then is to put your jug or whatever under the tube, and open the petcock. Close it and drop the tube again if you need more water. I think it would be easier than getting a bucket down in a lot of wells. I don't know that I could get a bucket down mine, and the well is very, very deep, so a pipe like arrangement might work. There is room for that to go down I know. There is a giant oak tree over my well, with limbs that are very sturdy, and probably 30 or 40 feet above the well that I could use for the rope. |
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Posted: 10/3/2012 4:48:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
You could, conceivably , in a dire situation, use a very long length of pvc pipe, say 15 feet or so that is small enough to go down. Drill several small holes in the sides about a foot from the top, and glue a fine wire mesh over them for a filter. Then , drill a couple of large holes near the very top to slip a rope or cable through. Cap the bottom end with a pvc cap, and weight it if necessary as well so that it sinks. When you lower the pipe down and it enters the water, water will rush in through the holes and mesh near the top. When you pull it out, all of the water in the area ( say the 12 feet or so ), under the holes, will stay full. There is a giant oak tree over my well, with limbs that are very sturdy, and probably 30 or 40 feet above the well that I could use for the rope. The problem is sinking 12 feet of 3" PVC (assuming a 4" well casing) will take about 35 lbs of weight. You will then be pulling up 35 lbs of dead weight, 35 lbs of water, plus the weight of the PVC pipe. A much better arrangement will be to place a check valve in the bottom capped end of the pipe and make the pipe a shorter length to reduce the lift weight depending on the gear you have to lift with. If you used a 4 foot section of 3" PVC with a check valve at the bottom you could pull it manually with a lift weight of less than 20 lbs and deliver about 1.5 gallons with each lift. |
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Posted: 10/3/2012 4:52:29 AM EDT
[#11]
Generator
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Posted: 10/3/2012 5:41:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: You could, conceivably , in a dire situation, use a very long length of pvc pipe, say 15 feet or so that is small enough to go down. Drill several small holes in the sides about a foot from the top, and glue a fine wire mesh over them for a filter. Then , drill a couple of large holes near the very top to slip a rope or cable through. Cap the bottom end with a pvc cap, and weight it if necessary as well so that it sinks. When you lower the pipe down and it enters the water, water will rush in through the holes and mesh near the top. When you pull it out, all of the water in the area ( say the 12 feet or so ), under the holes, will stay full. If you use a support high enough above the well, you could pull the thing completely out of far enough that you can see the bottom cap. If you can do this, then it would be a good idea to install a petcock valve at the bottom of the cap. All you need to do then is to put your jug or whatever under the tube, and open the petcock. Close it and drop the tube again if you need more water. I think it would be easier than getting a bucket down in a lot of wells. I don't know that I could get a bucket down mine, and the well is very, very deep, so a pipe like arrangement might work. There is room for that to go down I know. There is a giant oak tree over my well, with limbs that are very sturdy, and probably 30 or 40 feet above the well that I could use for the rope. Well, maybe. In my well (drilled in the late 80's) where the pitless adapter normally is, there is a plate. Unless the pipe is less than 1/4" diameter (OD), it won't fit as is. A new modern pitless adapter will give you some room, but in a 4 inch well, your are talking 1/2" PVC pipe to get it to fit. Best thing to do is to see how YOUR well is set up. I have a well bucket, but that is a more long term solution, after I pull up the electric at 170 feet deep. Short term is a generator. Hopefully, I can get a better solution soon, but this is the plan for MY well for now.
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Posted: 10/20/2012 4:13:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Why do you have to pull the pump out to use a bailer bucket?
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Posted: 10/20/2012 4:42:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Why do you have to pull the pump out to use a bailer bucket? http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/658134__ARCHIVED_THREAD____How_to_get_water_from_your_well_with_no_electricity_.html&page=1#i11236590 ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/20/2012 4:51:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Why do you have to pull the pump out to use a bailer bucket? Because you cant get a 3" bucket down a 4" hole if there is already a 1 1/2" line down said hole attached to the well pump. |
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Posted: 10/20/2012 9:10:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Is there any trick to pulling the well pump and torque arrestors out other than just pulling?
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Posted: 10/21/2012 1:58:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Is there any trick to pulling the well pump and torque arrestors out other than just pulling? how deep is your well? there is a check valve at the bottom, right at the submersible pump. therefore, the pipe string down to the pump is always full of water. hence, the deeper the well, the more it weighs. in general it's not easy to pull a submersible –– in most cases you'll need an A-frame with a winch above the well bore. just as a rule of thumb, a 100' deep well pump assembly and the water in the pipe will weigh about 200-250 pounds. this is of course dependent on the diameter of the pipe string –– 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2", etc. what you can do to lighten the load is run a length of garden hose (or similar) down the pipe string (not the well bore, but the pump output pipe). now put compressed air, lots of it, down the hose. you will need around 100psi and lots of volume –– a typical nail gun compressor is not going to do it. you need a big burst of air delivered from a big tank though a big valve. with enough volume down the hose a big bubble will be created at he bottom of the pipe string, which will rise and push the water up and out of the pipe string. this will significantly reduce the weight you have to pull up. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/21/2012 4:15:39 AM EDT
[#18]
There are pre-made bailers that can be purchased from well supply places. (Longyear, Pine Environmental). You could also use something like the super siphon using a check valve and rigid HDPE tubing.
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Posted: 10/21/2012 9:07:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
[b]there is a check valve at the bottom, right at the submersible pump. therefore, the pipe string down to the pump is always full of water. ar-jedi[/b] While I have back up measures in motion, getting clean water from my well is one of the items at the top of my prep list. But this is an interesting comment. If there is a check valve at the bottom of the electric pump, why couldn't it be used at the foot valve with a hand pump at the top? I know mechanical pumps can be added to an existing well, but this seems like something worth investigating, without having to pull the existing pump & the putting another check valve back in the hole. Any thoughts? Also, to the OP, a bailer buckets is the name of the item you were asking about. Also on my list of items to make or buy. John |
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Posted: 10/21/2012 5:57:13 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there any trick to pulling the well pump and torque arrestors out other than just pulling? how deep is your well? there is a check valve at the bottom, right at the submersible pump. therefore, the pipe string down to the pump is always full of water. hence, the deeper the well, the more it weighs. in general it's not easy to pull a submersible –– in most cases you'll need an A-frame with a winch above the well bore. just as a rule of thumb, a 100' deep well pump assembly and the water in the pipe will weigh about 200-250 pounds. this is of course dependent on the diameter of the pipe string –– 1", 1-1/4", 1-1/2", etc. what you can do to lighten the load is run a length of garden hose (or similar) down the pipe string (not the well bore, but the pump output pipe). now put compressed air, lots of it, down the hose. you will need around 100psi and lots of volume –– a typical nail gun compressor is not going to do it. you need a big burst of air delivered from a big tank though a big valve. with enough volume down the hose a big bubble will be created at he bottom of the pipe string, which will rise and push the water up and out of the pipe string. this will significantly reduce the weight you have to pull up. ar-jedi My thought on this is ......if you are going to use a compressor why not find a way to seal the top of the well casing around the pipe already in there apply your 100 psi air pressure ( don't need a lot of volume) and the pressure will force water out of your pumps regular line.........just a thought (this is not my own Idea I read it online .....my google fu is weak but somewhere out there is an Aussie company that makes pumps like this) |
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Posted: 10/21/2012 6:03:21 PM EDT
[#21]
attach a hand pump at the top of the well, the pipe is full of water already and just start pumping
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Posted: 10/21/2012 6:57:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
attach a hand pump at the top of the well, the pipe is full of water already and just start pumping you can't draw water up from more than about 30 feet down. physics. this is why there is a submersible pump is at the bottom of a deep well bore in the first place... otherwise why go through all the trouble of placing a pump way down in the hole? ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/21/2012 6:58:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
attach a hand pump at the top of the well, the pipe is full of water already and just start pumping If the water level is over ~25 feet deep I think there will be great puzzlement and dishappointment. 
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Posted: 10/21/2012 6:59:27 PM EDT
[#24]
but the water is already in the pipe just right at the top so you are drawing it from less then a foot
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Posted: 10/21/2012 7:02:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
My thought on this is ......if you are going to use a compressor why not find a way to seal the top of the well casing around the pipe already in there apply your 100 psi air pressure ( don't need a lot of volume) and the pressure will force water out of your pumps regular line.........just a thought pressurizing the well casing won't do anything. think about it. in fact, i don't believe that you'll ever read more than a few psi in the well casing –– you are just pushing air back into the aquifer that the pump is submersed in. there is a hundred or so feet of water standing on the check valve. how are you going to get to the pressure where the check valve opens? ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/21/2012 7:03:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
but the water is already in the pipe just right at the top so you are drawing it from less then a foot errrr.... atmospheric pressure and all that. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/21/2012 7:21:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
but the water is already in the pipe just right at the top so you are drawing it from less then a foot Try this. Take a 6 foot piece of tubing, immerse it in a bucket o water and let it fill. Put your finger over the bottom and have someone stretch it up 3 or 4 feet. Then try to suck water up the tube from the bucket after the finger is released. Ain't gonna happen. Why??? Because of 'atmospheric pressure' of about 14.7 psi at sea level. You can suck water up a straw maybe a foot or so, I have't tried recently. So what's this have to do with putting a suction type shallow well pump on a 100 foot pipe with a check valve at the end? Same thing as trying to suck water up a long straw except the shallow well pump can create a differential 'pressure' [suction] of about 10 psi IIRC. 10 psi is roughly equiv to the pressure of a column of water 20 feet high. Once you have to create a differential pressure of greater than ~14.7 psi [a good vacuum pump can do this] you won't be able to draw water higher than 32 feet or so. My explaination is prolly poor so Google has more answers than most would ever want to read on this subject. |
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Posted: 10/21/2012 7:29:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Feeding compressed air just above the foot valve [if provision were made to do this] might be a simple solution to not having the juice to run a well pump.
Of course how will you run the compressor? Still takes some sort of power, fuel or something, to do abt the same amount of 'work'. |
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Posted: 10/21/2012 7:29:27 PM EDT
[#29]
I think the word you are looking for is "Bailer".
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Posted: 10/21/2012 7:54:43 PM EDT
[#30]
I am not sure whether you are trying to forgo electrical power altogether or what.
I do know many of the more remote deep wells I see here in southwest TX use electric pumps powered by there own individual solar array. It seems to be the most practical solution compared to commercial power or generators. Another viable option, depending on how deep your well is and how visible you are willing to make it, is a tried and true windmill. |
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Posted: 10/22/2012 2:27:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Generator This. Your time is better spent preparing to pump water the way the well was designed. My well is 285 feet deep, the idea of lowering down a bucket would lend itself to the unprepared category for me. Secondary is a gas powered trash pump and and 300 feet of 3/4 garden hose. At least this way I don't need to remove the inner working of the electric pump. |
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Posted: 10/22/2012 3:29:33 AM EDT
[#32]
 Quoted:
Quoted:
attach a hand pump at the top of the well, the pipe is full of water already and just start pumping If the water level is over ~25 feet deep I think there will be great puzzlement and dishappointment.
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Posted: 10/22/2012 7:03:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Generator Why oh why is this concept so difficult for some to grasp. Turn the genset on, fill the bathtub, turn genset off. 10 minutes of operation and you have water for a week. |
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Posted: 10/22/2012 7:49:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Generator Why oh why is this concept so difficult for some to grasp. Turn the genset on, fill the bathtub, turn genset off. 10 minutes of operation and you have water for a week. It isn't hard to grasp. Some may not be able to afford the generator, or enough fuel to use it long term, or just like having a contingency plan if the generator or well pump fails during an emergency. I have two generators capable of powering my well pump (and 3 more in the family and about a mile away). I also have a 500 gallon fuel tank with no less than 300 gallons of gasoline in it at any given time. I have no desire to ever pull my well pump and hand bail water from my well but I still have a couple PVC bailers with check valves on them. They are cheap insurance in case everything else fails or runs out. I also have a 60x64 metal barn with a metal roof and four large tanks to catch rain water. It is nice to have options with something as important as water and I have no streams or ponds near my home. This is a preparedness forum, after all. |
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Posted: 10/22/2012 8:00:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
My thought on this is ......if you are going to use a compressor why not find a way to seal the top of the well casing around the pipe already in there apply your 100 psi air pressure ( don't need a lot of volume) and the pressure will force water out of your pumps regular line.........just a thought pressurizing the well casing won't do anything. think about it. in fact, i don't believe that you'll ever read more than a few psi in the well casing –– you are just pushing air back into the aquifer that the pump is submersed in. there is a hundred or so feet of water standing on the check valve. how are you going to get to the pressure where the check valve opens? ar-jedi I knew I was missing something  ...... found the link I was looking for ....it is called a Brumby pump and does run using compressed air some of you might be intrested Brumby Pump
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Posted: 10/22/2012 9:28:25 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Generator This. Your time is better spent preparing to pump water the way the well was designed. My well is 285 feet deep, the idea of lowering down a bucket would lend itself to the unprepared category for me. Secondary is a gas powered trash pump and and 300 feet of 3/4 garden hose. At least this way I don't need to remove the inner working of the electric pump. Wait, so you plan on sucking the water up from more than 25 feet with a trash pump??? I thought this was all explained a few posts up... Besides, the garden hose would collapse at 10 feet of lift. 
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Posted: 10/22/2012 3:23:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Secondary is a gas powered trash pump and and 300 feet of 3/4 garden hose. At least this way I don't need to remove the inner working of the electric pump. let us know how this works out. 
ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/23/2012 2:21:17 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Secondary is a gas powered trash pump and and 300 feet of 3/4 garden hose. At least this way I don't need to remove the inner working of the electric pump. let us know how this works out.
ar-jedi 2 gens and 800 gallons of propane before I ever get that far. I openly admin I'm not an engineer in fluid dynamics. Just a thought I had of stuff I have laying around. The trash pump pulls water up the hill from the pond to water the garden and it works OK but thats only about 175 feet or so. I have no idea about the vertical aspect. |
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Posted: 10/23/2012 4:24:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Secondary is a gas powered trash pump and and 300 feet of 3/4 garden hose. At least this way I don't need to remove the inner working of the electric pump. let us know how this works out.
ar-jedi 2 gens and 800 gallons of propane before I ever get that far. I openly admin I'm not an engineer in fluid dynamics. Just a thought I had of stuff I have laying around. The trash pump pulls water up the hill from the pond to water the garden and it works OK but thats only about 175 feet or so. I have no idea about the vertical aspect. The trash pump can not lift water from more than ~20 ft so the pump will not work with the intake 200 to 300 ft above the water level in your well. |
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Posted: 10/23/2012 4:37:22 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Generator Why oh why is this concept so difficult for some to grasp. Turn the genset on, fill the bathtub, turn genset off. 10 minutes of operation and you have water for a week. It isn't hard to grasp. Some may not be able to afford the generator, or enough fuel to use it long term, or just like having a contingency plan if the generator or well pump fails during an emergency. I have two generators capable of powering my well pump (and 3 more in the family and about a mile away). I also have a 500 gallon fuel tank with no less than 300 gallons of gasoline in it at any given time. I have no desire to ever pull my well pump and hand bail water from my well but I still have a couple PVC bailers with check valves on them. They are cheap insurance in case everything else fails or runs out. I also have a 60x64 metal barn with a metal roof and four large tanks to catch rain water. It is nice to have options with something as important as water and I have no streams or ponds near my home. This is a preparedness forum, after all. This topic has been beat to death. Somethings just aren't real doable. ANYONE, who believes in preparing, and doesn't have multiple generators and fuel storage is very naive. I suppose if one had a very shallow well, maybe. My well is 150' to the aquafier. |
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Posted: 10/23/2012 6:27:51 AM EDT
[#41]
If you are really worried buy a windmill pump.
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Posted: 10/23/2012 6:46:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My thought on this is ......if you are going to use a compressor why not find a way to seal the top of the well casing around the pipe already in there apply your 100 psi air pressure ( don't need a lot of volume) and the pressure will force water out of your pumps regular line.........just a thought pressurizing the well casing won't do anything. think about it. in fact, i don't believe that you'll ever read more than a few psi in the well casing –– you are just pushing air back into the aquifer that the pump is submersed in. there is a hundred or so feet of water standing on the check valve. how are you going to get to the pressure where the check valve opens? ar-jedi I knew I was missing something ...... found the link I was looking for ....it is called a Brumby pump and does run using compressed air some of you might be intrested Brumby Pumpthe title of this thread is "How to get water froma deep well without electricity" –– so clearly you are not using an AC-powered air compressor for this approach. and, if you are going to use a gasoline- or diesel powered air compressor, you might as well cut to the chase and use gasoline- or diesel powered generator. this will be far more efficient, will not require pulling the existing submersible pump out of the well bore, and finally provides actual water pressure versus the compressed air pumps which just shoot occasional spurts of water out. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 10/24/2012 11:37:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Yhe first steam engine at the beginning of the industrial revolution, designed by watt, was a simple tank with no moving parts to speak of that drew water out of coal mines. Pipe goes down, at the top is a sealed tank. Light fire outside of tank so the air gets thin and much of it bubbles out into the well i guess. Then let tank cool and the decrease in pressure in the tank makes a vacuum that draws up water. Surely those were good for more than 30'??
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Posted: 10/25/2012 3:38:32 AM EDT
[#44]
Why not a couple of solar panels charge and a couple of batteries. Given prices today I'd guess you could get setup for the cost of a new ar, anyone with experience here know for sure?
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Posted: 10/25/2012 4:21:43 AM EDT
[#45]
When I was a kid we had a deep well with a hand pump. We were getting water from between 60 and 100 feet down.
With the amount of stuff down a really deep well you will not be able to snake a hose or well bucket down thru everything. Plan on a cistern or lots of blue barrels if water without electricity is that hard to get. |
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Posted: 10/25/2012 5:28:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Yhe first steam engine at the beginning of the industrial revolution, designed by watt, was a simple tank with no moving parts to speak of that drew water out of coal mines. Pipe goes down, at the top is a sealed tank. Light fire outside of tank so the air gets thin and much of it bubbles out into the well i guess. Then let tank cool and the decrease in pressure in the tank makes a vacuum that draws up water. Surely those were good for more than 30'?? Prolly no more than 15. |
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Posted: 10/26/2012 7:13:09 AM EDT
[#47]
Check out Bison Pumps. I think they have a pitiless adapter setup so you still have only one pipe down the well and your static level would effectively start out around 8-10 feet.
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Posted: 10/26/2012 7:33:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: I think the word you are looking for is "Bailer". That is the correct name. They are a hollow metal pipe with a "Dart valve" welded on the bottom, and a shackle on top. Basically it's dropped in the hole, the end of the valve sticking out is pushed into the pipe, the water and cuttings rush into the bailer and the whole thing is winched back up. The weight of the water forces the valve back closed when it comes off bottom. They pull a surprising amount of water out, as the velocity they are dropped at creates a lot of suction and forces the water into the bailer. The thing is, for the most efficiency, they have to slam into the hole, and then be immediately withdrawn. Doing the same thing with PVC pipe would be a pain in the ass, and potentially break in your well and block it. Hauling it up any appreciable distance would be FUN!. |
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Posted: 10/26/2012 7:51:41 AM EDT
[#49]
So here's a DIY bailer. Vs a cable tool bailer.
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Posted: 10/26/2012 7:59:02 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My thought on this is ......if you are going to use a compressor why not find a way to seal the top of the well casing around the pipe already in there apply your 100 psi air pressure ( don't need a lot of volume) and the pressure will force water out of your pumps regular line.........just a thought pressurizing the well casing won't do anything. think about it. in fact, i don't believe that you'll ever read more than a few psi in the well casing –– you are just pushing air back into the aquifer that the pump is submersed in. there is a hundred or so feet of water standing on the check valve. how are you going to get to the pressure where the check valve opens? ar-jedi I knew I was missing something ...... found the link I was looking for ....it is called a Brumby pump and does run using compressed air some of you might be intrested Brumby Pumpthe title of this thread is "How to get water froma deep well without electricity" –– so clearly you are not using an AC-powered air compressor for this approach. and, if you are going to use a gasoline- or diesel powered air compressor, you might as well cut to the chase and use gasoline- or diesel powered generator. this will be far more efficient, will not require pulling the existing submersible pump out of the well bore, and finally provides actual water pressure versus the compressed air pumps which just shoot occasional spurts of water out. ar-jedi If people saw the size and volume of air it takes to get even 10 GPM out of a well, about that of a garden hose, they would shit. 900-1000 CFM at 3-400 PSI is a little beyond the average homeowner's compressor. |
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