Lever Action as a survival gun? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Lever Action as a survival gun? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 1/31/2011 5:21:47 PM EDT

[#1]

I have a Winchester Trapper in .357. It's a very short light wt rifle. I also have a six shooter in .357. They are my old school guns. I would recommend a rifle that shoots the same caliber as a pistol.

Posted: 1/31/2011 5:26:09 PM EDT

[#2]

I like my cadiwampus picture better........ if it was in 444marlin it would be a survival gun

Quoted:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c75/Halffast/IMG_0234-1.jpg

Posted: 1/31/2011 5:57:39 PM EDT

[#3]

acman and Halffast, I'm really tempted to call you two out for dressing like twins in a conspiracy to mess with the public mind.

Posted: 1/31/2011 6:13:16 PM EDT

[#4]

Nice looking lever gun, below, from this arfcom thread.

Posted: 1/31/2011 6:18:20 PM EDT

[#5]

I've shot the Marlin in .357 and think that would make a nice truck gun. Great terminal ballistics out to 100-150 meters or so.

Posted: 1/31/2011 7:05:18 PM EDT

[#6]

If I couldn't have a semi auto, a 16-18" lever gun would be my choice for a fighting rifle. The primary issue for the .30-30 as a SHTF gun is the ammo expense.

Posted: 1/31/2011 7:24:11 PM EDT

[#7]

I think the main down side would be ammo cost. but if you have the money, the hornady lever action ammo make a solid 200yd shooter out of the 30-30. but a buck a shot sucks!

Posted: 1/31/2011 7:33:57 PM EDT

[#8]

I've got a Ruger Vaquero and a Marlin Cowboy 1894 in 45 LC. I load them with Cast Performance 360 GR or Buffalo Bore 350 GR bullets in my handloads. They'lll shoot clean thru anything on this side of the pond. Nine rounds in the lever (the 360 and 350s are loaded longer than standard weight 45 LCs, so I get nine instead of ten rounds in the tube) and six in the handgun. That's more than enough for anything but an all out fire fight.

I'm thinking I might add a scope or a Micro Aimpoint to the rifle.

One thing about a lever, you can control when and where the brass is ejected. In a shtf I don't want to leave brass everywhere. Also, I can run one fairly economically. The 45 LC uses less powder than a rifle round, although my 360/350 grain loads come aweful close to the amount of powder a 223 will use.

Yes, the lever/single action combo in 45 LC is definetly worth considering. Properly loaded its more powerful than a 44 magnum or a 30 30.

Posted: 1/31/2011 7:50:15 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

incorrect. The Lever action is the most COMPLEX of common repeaters and uses several small & fragile parts. The AR & AK are simpler and more reliable. The bolt action is simpler still and again more reliable.

Stupidest comment I have read in along time

Don't get me wrong, I love my AR's and it's my go to rifle, but I grew up around deer camps where nearly everyone had a 30-30 LG of either the Winchester or Marlin variety. We're talking about pure red neck hunters who probably didn't even own a cleaning kit and I never and I mean never saw one fail or break. Can't say the same about the AR. A battle rifle it is not, but you could do much much worse.

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:00:47 PM EDT

[#10]

I would imagine that if you are in a survival situation you are not in ideal circumstances... wouldnt the best avialibale one be best.

Posted: 1/31/2011 8:59:40 PM EDT

[#11]

I'd feel pretty confident with my 45-70 Marlin. As a bonus, I can cast my own bullets and if powder ever gets scarce, I can employ a little chemistry and run it with black powder.

Posted: 1/31/2011 9:56:01 PM EDT

[#12]

16" 30-30 Marlin w/ a Weaver 1-3x scope. It is a neat, well balanced little package:

Some old Accelerator ammo:

Posted: 1/31/2011 10:00:55 PM EDT

[#13]

In this pic, the top rifle is my 16" Marlin 1894 "Limited" in 44 magnum, with a Weaver fixed 2.5x scope.

It is another fun little toy:

Posted: 1/31/2011 10:07:38 PM EDT

[#14]

Quite frankly, while both of these short barreled centerfire lever guns are fun to play with, neither holds a candle in all around performance to my chopped 20" Tikka T3 Lite stainless .308. It wears a Nightforce 2.5x10 compact scope and is fed with a bunch of single stack 5 round mags. It is such an all around awesome performer, it tends to get taken everywhere, while the leverguns get left in the rifle safe.

Here it is wearing a 4.5-14 Leupold with MI knobs before I settled on the compact Nightforce:

Posted: 2/1/2011 3:25:53 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
For your average guy who is looking at long term survival and isn't counting on extended mass combat with anyone, what is the viability of a good 30-30 lever action such as the Marlin or Winchester variety as a primary survival rifle? (

aye, and there's the rub. Hope things work out for those that just don't want to bother with combat conditions in a time of crisis. :D

Posted: 2/1/2011 3:42:41 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
For your average guy who is looking at long term survival and isn't counting on extended mass combat with anyone, what is the viability of a good 30-30 lever action such as the Marlin or Winchester variety as a primary survival rifle? (Of note, this is simply a question as food for thought. I already have my stockpile

)

Just what the Fkk do you mean? Not counting on extended mass combat with anyone?!?!?!?
Am I in the wrong forum?
Do I now have to remove the tinfoil from both heads??
Good God man!

Seriously though. 30-30, .35 Rem., hell, even .44 mag.. Nasty little package! Normally super accurate, (as long as yer peepers are still good) Low maintnance. Nice. I think that regardless what your milspec pile looks like, you'd be better off w/ a lever than a pump shot gun.

Posted: 2/1/2011 4:40:16 AM EDT

[#17]

I can only think of better options for every survival role of a lever gun with the possible exception of living in a jurisdiction where semi-auto was not an option.

In that case the choice between lever and bolt action is debatable as to which is the better choice.

The lever action operates slightly faster standing, but the bolt wins hands down prone.

The lever with exception of the BLR type is going to be slower to reload the tube.

The bolt can be had in versions that accept stripper clips and a few that take detachable and/or extended mags.

Posted: 2/1/2011 5:36:22 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Big con: The military dropped lever actions as soon as bolt actions became available.

Why? Bolts usually hold less, but are easier to reload and are more reliable.

How well would you shoot prone a lever action versus a bolt? I like lever actions and shoot them well, but in a survival scenario, I think a SKS is a better choice.

Our military never issued a lever gun for general use. I see no problem using a lever gun for a self defense arm. Look at all of the 73 winchesters that were used in the old west. A good lever gun is just as reliable as anything else you can tote. I own ars and lever guns, and bolt actions also.

Posted: 2/1/2011 6:09:48 AM EDT

[#19]

I love my 444 marlin guide gun (only lever action worth owning imo

)

That said i love it for what it is a kick ass brush gun for hunting.

If you've never broke or seen / know of a broke lever gun through normal use.

Sorry if this hurts your feelings but you haven't been around that many guns or at least guns that were really used.

So i hurt everyones feelings equally this goes for the guys who never saw an AK AR bolt action or pump shotgun etc go south.

Generally speaking you don't see a lot of busted lever guns.

By the same token you rarely see a lever gun that receives the kind of round count an ak ar etc sees....... ok maybe AR's in arfcom picture threads

Posted: 2/1/2011 6:19:38 AM EDT

[#20]

Slow rate of fire, slow reload, but better than nothing.

Posted: 2/1/2011 7:47:50 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

incorrect. The Lever action is the most COMPLEX of common repeaters and uses several small & fragile parts. The AR & AK are simpler and more reliable. The bolt action is simpler still and again more reliable.

Stupidest comment I have read in along time

Don't get me wrong, I love my AR's and it's my go to rifle, but I grew up around deer camps where nearly everyone had a 30-30 LG of either the Winchester or Marlin variety. We're talking about pure red neck hunters who probably didn't even own a cleaning kit and I never and I mean never saw one fail or break. Can't say the same about the AR. A battle rifle it is not, but you could do much much worse.

To compare a lever action with an AR or a AK is ridiculous at best. A modern battle rifle is designed to fire 1000's of rounds, sometimes in a single day, whereas a lever action isn't designed to do that. To say that a LA has the durability of a AR is plain dumb.

Posted: 2/1/2011 7:51:00 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Big con: The military dropped lever actions as soon as bolt actions became available.

Why? Bolts usually hold less, but are easier to reload and are more reliable.

How well would you shoot prone a lever action versus a bolt? I like lever actions and shoot them well, but in a survival scenario, I think a SKS is a better choice.

Our military never issued a lever gun for general use. I see no problem using a lever gun for a self defense arm. Look at all of the 73 winchesters that were used in the old west. A good lever gun is just as reliable as anything else you can tote. I own ars and lever guns, and bolt actions also.

Oh please, give me a break.

Posted: 2/1/2011 7:54:38 AM EDT

[#23]

Sure it's slow to reload and follow up shots are slower than some other choices. As a SHTF gun is is a good choice for putting food on the table as well as keeping the unwanted guest.

Posted: 2/1/2011 8:03:27 AM EDT

[#24]

If I had to sell all my firearms except 1 rifle, I would def. keep my .357 levergun.

Posted: 2/1/2011 8:27:47 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

To compare a lever action with an AR or a AK is ridiculous at best. A modern battle rifle is designed to fire 1000's of rounds, sometimes in a single day, whereas a lever action isn't designed to do that. To say that a LA has the durability of a AR is plain dumb.

Are you saying people don't put tens of thousands of rounds through lever guns?

Look here.

After 2 years and between 20,000 and 30,000 rounds, the ol' Marlin Cowboy started breaking. I had spares for everything, so no long term down time existed.

20,000+ rounds doesn't sound too bad. That 10x lifetimes of most shooters. And then the parts you have to start replacing are fairly cheap.

Posted: 2/1/2011 8:29:44 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

To compare a lever action with an AR or a AK is ridiculous at best. A modern battle rifle is designed to fire 1000's of rounds, sometimes in a single day, whereas a lever action isn't designed to do that. To say that a LA has the durability of a AR is plain dumb.

Are you saying people don't put tens of thousands of rounds through lever guns?

Look here.

After 2 years and between 20,000 and 30,000 rounds, the ol' Marlin Cowboy started breaking. I had spares for everything, so no long term down time existed.

20,000+ rounds doesn't sound too bad. That 10x lifetimes of most shooters. And then the parts you have to start replacing are fairly cheap.

+1

Posted: 2/1/2011 8:34:13 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

To compare a lever action with an AR or a AK is ridiculous at best. A modern battle rifle is designed to fire 1000's of rounds, sometimes in a single day, whereas a lever action isn't designed to do that. To say that a LA has the durability of a AR is plain dumb.

Are you saying people don't put tens of thousands of rounds through lever guns?

Look here.

After 2 years and between 20,000 and 30,000 rounds, the ol' Marlin Cowboy started breaking. I had spares for everything, so no long term down time existed.

20,000+ rounds doesn't sound too bad. That 10x lifetimes of most shooters. And then the parts you have to start replacing are fairly cheap.

20,000-30,000 pistol cartridges is not quite the same as 20,000-30,000 rifle cartridges.

Posted: 2/1/2011 8:54:00 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:

To compare a lever action with an AR or a AK is ridiculous at best. A modern battle rifle is designed to fire 1000's of rounds, sometimes in a single day, whereas a lever action isn't designed to do that. To say that a LA has the durability of a AR is plain dumb.

Are you saying people don't put tens of thousands of rounds through lever guns?

Look here.

After 2 years and between 20,000 and 30,000 rounds, the ol' Marlin Cowboy started breaking. I had spares for everything, so no long term down time existed.

20,000+ rounds doesn't sound too bad. That 10x lifetimes of most shooters. And then the parts you have to start replacing are fairly cheap.

20,000-30,000 pistol cartridges is not quite the same as 20,000-30,000 rifle cartridges.

And they were probably low powered cowboy rounds.

Posted: 2/2/2011 3:54:36 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Daniel Webster is turning in his grave.

If you are going to be a Spelling NAZI, at least know who your Führer is. Noah Webster is the American lexicographer who gave us An American Dictionary of the English language. The grave your poking is that of an American lawyer and statesman.

Posted: 2/2/2011 5:07:52 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

And they were probably low powered cowboy rounds.

Yeah, I thought about that. The cycling and cartridge feeding is the "complex" and "delicate" part of a lever gun. I doubt it really matter a great deal to that system if a cowboy load or standard load is in the chamber. Now once the action is closed, the cartridge is surrounded by big chunks of steel.

Something else I'm seeing is that the .30-30's range is called into play constantly. But 7.62x39's range is never called into play. Look at a trajectory chart one day. Pretty much the same.

Posted: 2/2/2011 7:10:10 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Daniel Webster is turning in his grave.

If you are going to be a Spelling NAZI, at least know who your Führer is. Noah Webster is the American lexicographer who gave us An American Dictionary of the English language. The grave your poking is that of an American lawyer and statesman.

touche!