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CoyoteGray
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Posted: 7/3/2010 4:40:39 PM
Here is my solution for a temporary household backup water supply that allows normal use of water inside my house.
The only limitation is how difficult it is to refill the drums, driving distance etc...

The major components are a 55 gal water drum and a RV 12v on-demand water pump.

If we lose water pressure I simply hook it up to an outside faucet and essentially "backfeed" my plumbing. Everything works as normal with slightly reduced flow.
One thing I had to do was rig up the outside faucet I will use with a removable anti-siphon valve that I can remove when I need to use this.

Since it's very simple, flexible and portable it could be used standalone or attached to someone else's house..

I'm planning on mounting the pump on a 2X6 to give it some stability.













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Mr_Psmith
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Posted: 7/3/2010 6:05:44 PM
Will the pump burn out if on with all your interior faucets turned off?
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coues7
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Posted: 7/3/2010 9:37:36 PM
It shouldn't. Most Shurflo pumps are pressure regulated––-meaning they build up to 35-75 psi and then shut off and hold the pressure.
Echo2
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Posted: 7/3/2010 9:49:02 PM
[Last Edit: 7/3/2010 9:49:44 PM by Echo2]
nice.....how long will a batt run the pump?

what is your charging plan?
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CoyoteGray
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Posted: 7/3/2010 11:03:58 PM
It will maintain 65psi. Its an on demand pump.
I have a dozen ways to provide 12v so that's not really a problem. Household 110 and charger, Honda generator, 10KW generator, car, truck, solar.. and so on..

It will run long enough to empty a 55 gal drum when used off and on...

Andy..
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tenOC
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Posted: 7/3/2010 11:09:08 PM
I'm digging it. I hadn't thought of doing this in this manner.
Skibane
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Posted: 7/3/2010 11:12:18 PM
Very ingenious!

I assume you shut off the city water supply at the meter or water heater, in order to avoid back-pressurizing all the other homes in the neighborhood...
Echo2
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Posted: 7/3/2010 11:46:55 PM
source on pump?
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CoyoteGray
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Posted: 7/3/2010 11:48:12 PM
[Last Edit: 7/3/2010 11:51:46 PM by CoyoteGray]
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Very ingenious!

I assume you shut off the city water supply at the meter or water heater, in order to avoid back-pressurizing all the other homes in the neighborhood...


Yes, otherwise you would just empty your tank into the system, assuming there was no pressure.
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CoyoteGray
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Posted: 7/3/2010 11:49:30 PM
Originally Posted By Echo2:
source on pump?


Any RV shop will have them..
I got this one at Camping World in Okc...

Andy..
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CoyoteGray
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Posted: 7/3/2010 11:51:27 PM
FYI, taking a good shower but not messing around will use about 7" of water out of the tank. A full load of dishes, about the same.

Andy..
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Echo2
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Posted: 7/4/2010 12:01:00 AM
Originally Posted By CoyoteGray:
Originally Posted By Echo2:
source on pump?


Any RV shop will have them..
I got this one at Camping World in Okc...

Andy..


cool....we have one here....thanks
That which does not kill me....only tries to kill me again.
Skibane
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Posted: 7/4/2010 12:14:08 AM
Just out of curiosity...

If you elevated the 55 gallon barrel to - oh, maybe 6 feet above the faucet - would it provide enough pressure under gravity feed alone to give you adequate water flow inside the house?
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Posted: 7/4/2010 12:22:03 AM
Why did I not think of this?
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Posted: 7/4/2010 12:34:07 AM
Outstanding.

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Posted: 7/4/2010 12:39:10 AM
[Last Edit: 7/4/2010 12:41:54 AM by Foxtrot243]
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Just out of curiosity...

If you elevated the 55 gallon barrel to - oh, maybe 6 feet above the faucet - would it provide enough pressure under gravity feed alone to give you adequate water flow inside the house?


Then do you have to take the drum down and take to wherever you get the potable water and fill it up then back home and hoist it up again? Or are you talking about making it part of the system with water flowing in and out all the time and having it in there like an extra hot water heater if power goes ect.?

Robby9
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Posted: 7/4/2010 12:48:28 AM
Andy, your ingenuity is inspiring. Well done.
Skibane
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Posted: 7/4/2010 1:26:58 AM
[Last Edit: 7/4/2010 1:34:54 AM by Skibane]
Originally Posted By Foxtrot243:
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Just out of curiosity...

If you elevated the 55 gallon barrel to - oh, maybe 6 feet above the faucet - would it provide enough pressure under gravity feed alone to give you adequate water flow inside the house?


Then do you have to take the drum down and take to wherever you get the potable water and fill it up then back home and hoist it up again? Or are you talking about making it part of the system with water flowing in and out all the time and having it in there like an extra hot water heater if power goes ect.?


I'm thinking that the drum could be left elevated all the time, previously filled from the city water supply. Basically, it would be a small water tower that would gravity-feed to your house through an outside faucet - no pressurization required.

When the drum needed refilling, a 12 volt pump (or a bucket) could be used to lift water from another portable tank/drum into it.
CoyoteGray
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Posted: 7/4/2010 2:42:38 AM
[Last Edit: 7/4/2010 2:43:12 AM by CoyoteGray]
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Just out of curiosity...

If you elevated the 55 gallon barrel to - oh, maybe 6 feet above the faucet - would it provide enough pressure under gravity feed alone to give you adequate water flow inside the house?


The problem is the height you would need to elevate it to for 60-70 PSI..

I found this via google......

The basic fact you need to know is that water pressure will increase at the rate of 14.7 PSI for every 33 feet of elevation.

Once you know this it is easy to calculate for other elevations or even depths of the ocean. For an elevation of 30 feet I get the answer of 13.36 PSI.

Static Pressure Supplied by Water
The volume of water is irrelevant to pressure. It is only the elevation that causes an increase in pressure. The static pressure supplied by the water at an elevated height is equal to [density of water (1000 kg/m3)] x [gravitational acceleration (9.812 m/s2)] x [height of water (9.144 meters)] in Pascals (newtons per square meter).

So, the pressure is 89,720.9 Pascal or 13.01 pounds per square inch.


So, according to this, to get 60 PSI you would need to have your tank elevated to 136 feet or so...


Andy..
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billclo
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Posted: 7/4/2010 7:01:11 AM
I used one of the Shureflow 12v pumps full-time in my house a few years ago when I had a solar array, batteries, 55-gal holding tank, pressure pump for normal household pressure. The Sureflow pump down the well held up well for 6 years, the Sureflow booster pump did not.

I ended up getting a fancier unit (Dankoff Booster pump), available here for example: Arizona Wind and Sun and it held up to the use much better.

But if you only intend to use the Sureflow pump for intermittent/light duty use, it's okay I guess.
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Posted: 7/4/2010 7:46:42 AM
Originally Posted By CoyoteGray:
So, according to this, to get 60 PSI you would need to have your tank elevated to 136 feet or so...


Why would you need 60 PSI?

If you've ever had the water supply turned off, opened a faucet in one part of the house and then opened another faucet someplace else, the small difference in elevation between the two faucets is enough to get some flow.The question is, would you get adequate flow with just 5-10 feet of barrel elevation.
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Posted: 7/4/2010 10:16:36 AM
This is all 'good to know' stuff. Nice work CoyoteGray!

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showpare
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Posted: 7/4/2010 10:18:03 AM
[Last Edit: 7/4/2010 10:18:35 AM by showpare]
Great, double tap


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Posted: 7/4/2010 12:11:15 PM
[Last Edit: 7/4/2010 12:13:19 PM by IAMLEGEND]
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By CoyoteGray:
So, according to this, to get 60 PSI you would need to have your tank elevated to 136 feet or so...


Why would you need 60 PSI?

If you've ever had the water supply turned off, opened a faucet in one part of the house and then opened another faucet someplace else, the small difference in elevation between the two faucets is enough to get some flow.The question is, would you get adequate flow with just 5-10 feet of barrel elevation.


When I did the plumbing in my kitchen remodel last week I shut off the main supply and then opened the tap in the laundry room to drain the line so there'd be less mess when I unhooked stuff up in the kitchen. I'm in a tri-level and the laundry room isn't even a full story below the kitchen. There's also a certain volume of water in the pipes upstairs, which is a full story above the laundry room. It's not blasting out at high pressure but you definitely get flow (until you run the pipes dry which is what you want so you can do your plumbing without making a mess). Open another tap above where you want to use the user for a vent effect to increase flow.

If you could store the water somewhere on your top floor you'd probably have decent use of faucets and fixtures in the floors below. Basically your elevating idea but inside the house.

Don't most of us use a crude version of this when camping? Set up the water container with a spigot, hose, and valve?

Related: Mother Earth News - I Built My Own Water Tower
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Posted: 7/4/2010 1:34:36 PM
"Why would you need 60 PSI? "

You wouldn't.
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Posted: 7/4/2010 2:56:31 PM
In some of the videos that have been posted in here over the past year or so there was one that was kind of churchy but it had someone who had built a cabin and had a water tank upstairs and they handpumped water into it each day and it gravity fed well enough for them to do what they wished to do.

I don't get wound up on water pressure, in many cases water volume makes up for it when car camping since I often put a 5 gallonw water jug on its side and use it as a sink spout and it has a couple feet when full of water pushing down on the bottom water and as it nears the end it still works reasonably well since that is how I have set up to use it.

Has anyone put an air gauge on a super soaker or pump up sprayer or other similar item? I don't know what sort of pressure they build but I am kind of figuring they don't even hit 30 psi in most cases and I use these items for all sorts of odds and ends when I want actual pressure more than volume.

Now feeding through your stock system might add some pressure drop, I personally just use those 5 gallon water coolers with a spigot at the bottom for when the water is out. I have done this for a while where I used to live when the well pump system died and my city water was a few hundred yards from where I lived. It was easy to haul water but took a while to hand dig a trench.

If you have a pickup the water drum is that high up and it is easy to build a stand at that height. Depending on your skills you can go higher and higher but I would prefer to pump from a full drum to an empty drum rather than wresting full drums around all the time.

Out of boredom I have started really conserving water even though I am on a well and if you do things right 55 gallons can run me a while but I would be worried about hooking it to my normal stuff and having someone else take a shower or do dishes or even wash their hands that way since they might just leave it running.

And something else some folks do for 5 gallon water jugs is add a schraeder valve so that can pressurize the container and push the water out. You don't need much pressure and it is easy to blow stuff up.
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