Thanks for posting this.  It's neat to learn the details behind something so ordinary, which usually works so well it's taken for granted.

ETA: Pg 5 R mine.

Thanks OP, excellent reading. taggage

Im still waiting to get by a certain station to do a write up on it because it would be the easiest kind to get put and saling gas after a SHTF .

Any more questions?

Yes, what does this mean? "be the easiest kind to get put and saling gas after a SHTF" ... I think your fingers and brain were doing 2 different things because it doesn't make sense.

Are you saying the easiest kind to get gas from?

lol yeah ... I was trying to type while running out the room to grab the phone .. I had another tech calling me .

Lets try again shall we .

There is a combination of equipment that you can make fully operational with a portable gen set and a little know how . I was going to show the combination. Of course at you and the station owners profit.

DT

Okay, what about people who do not turn off their vehicles but leave them running when pumping gas?  How bad is that?

I assume bad and it pisses me off when people do it right next to me, or should I chill?

cool info, I was needing some of that for a writing project, thanks!

Not as bad as other things .  In training vids I have yet to see a fire caused by a running car , that doesnt mean it has never happen though. Most techs leave there van or truck running all day working on pumps and never heard of a issue. The thing that does bother me and I have watched (training vids) 100s of fires caused by is static in one form or another . Filling gas cans in the vehicle , please put them on the ground . Heres the biggest cause , walking away then coming back and grabbing the nozzle . PLEASE touch the car metal somewhere before grabbing the nozzle to discharge any static build up , even if you sit in the car to get something please touch some of the cars metal before pulling out the nozzle because most vehicles you can get in and out of with out touching any metal . Cell phones seem to be a bit of a myth except the fact of the customer not  paying attention to what they are doing and whats going on around them.

Please dont go in the store while your car is filling up or sit in the car distracted because nozzles fail and do not shut off all the time. I wish I had the money I have watch customers pump on the ground while in the store on in the car .

Gas can idiot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYO4jvnJHw

Note she never touches any metal of the vehicle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdcPeW1XwKs
ETA :Surprising enough theres not many vids on youtube of gas fires by static ..... some of the ones we watched you wouldnt want to see anyway




A little something diff.
Weights and measures guy , we do his job here in Va because theres not enough of them to get to every station annually along with there other duties .  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTCFGdVjrlU

.

Thanks for posting this.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJK8MeyPopQ

Do many stations have this fire suppression system?  I've never noticed any buttons that say "in case of fire" on them.   Or are they inside the cashier station?

One thing I do when I fill up is try to locate the emergency pump shutoffs,  just in case.   On occasion I don't see them, but most are easily found and well labeled.

Thanks , no it was a interview with a W+M guy
sorry fixed

The ones still using ultra high flow diesel pumps , This is a site with 1 single ultra high flow that only sells a couple hundred gals a day. Luckily they have electronic leak detection so the strainer stopped alot from getting to the dispenser .
Mud ...

Cleaning


The maintenance manager showed up to see what the problem was so I stop taking pics .. did get a fuel sample pic ..... that doesnt look or smell like diesel , note sediment


Heres the drop tube that goes in the riser where the driver make fuel drops , See the overfill cut off .. when the float rises it cuts the flow off.

I have ppl hassle me for leaving my diesel running, I had one guy come tell me about 6 months ago that all it would take is one spark from my ignition system to blow the whole place up...  

I spent 6 years in the .mil filling up diesels (not actively, but we filled up or vehicles once a day), and never once saw one shut off for it.  Ever notice how truckers never shut off their rigs?  Hell, up in northern canada, they'll go months without shutting off the engine, how many times do you think they add fuel during those months?

As for gas engines and gasoline, not sure.  I used to not shut off mine, then decided to not do that anymore.  I probably did it for 3 or 4 years as a teenager and I didn't get blown up, but I agree it isn't a good idea.

Heres some STPs , still attached to the heads took out of stations


A tank

I fuel my truck running, hell I even smoke some times. Some people cave no concept of how fire works.


 

Any update on this question??

I forgot ... Ill try to get a real answer for you today ... I think I have a call where I can test this today. Sorry.

tagged

Holy crap!

Nice aint it ...

Do you mind if i copy and paste this info to other places?

62 ounces is what I got today on a blender pump , I changed a valve today so I got from the nozzle to the valve so that would be every bit of it. So almost 2 quarts . Sorry for the delay but I wanted to get a accurate anwser and have had not had any repairs that allowed me to do a true test. This dispenser had the valves the furthest down the line of all the brands /models I work on , so most models well be less.

Got a note on that also ..more later today

Thanks for the info.  1/2 gallon is about what I expected.  The hose goes a long way straight up then back down.  I was concerned that it could be worse.
Thanks again.

I have a question:

Sometimes I go to the EXXON stations in northern VA, and the pumps run godawfully slow.
When this happens, ALL the pumps at the station are running ridiculously slow.

Other times those same pumps run just fine.

Other than the hassle of slow fuel delivery, what is going on when this is happening?

Taggity.

Consider this a tag. Very cool thread. I love seeing how stuff works.

I have run into this as well, only in Wisconsin....

Sometimes its PAINFULLY slow....i wondered if it wasn't clogged up filters/screense/etc, but i have absolutely no clue what i'm talkin about

Adding to W_E_G's question.  When the gas price was near $4+, initially it was difficult to stop at a whole dollar figure.  Shortly after that, the pumps seemed to slow down so you could control your total price.  Is the dispensing rate adjustable or was I imagining things?

Ok theres a few things that could be causing it , notice it at certain times?

here in order

1. Most common is they have mechanical leak detectors over night the ground cools cooling the lines which causes thermal contraction so the line shrinks in the line triping the leak detector. The leak detector requires operating fuel pressure for 20 minutes to 2 minutes before it will reset . So when the station opens ppl start pumping so the leak detector does not reset untill all pumping stops and it has time to reset. If a you are at a station and the only one pumping and its slow just stop and wait a minute or to then start again and it should go to normal flow. Even dead spells during the day when the temp drops , gas temp say is 65 and the air is 45 ground 55 so the gas still contracts in the line when it sets there for more then a few minutes triping the LD.   Mostly happens in the morning though.

2. It has electronic leak detection and the screen is stopped up . I posted about the screen stopping up above ,theres some pics I took of the check valve screen above a few post... err pg5 . All the gas of that product goes through that one little screen so it is easy to see how it stops up easily. The site calls a tech the tech cleans the screen and life is good again.

3.  They have water monitor filters , they get some water in the fuel and the filters shut down . They call a tech get a filter change , tech changes filters , sometimes several times right after changing them . after water is purged  life is good again.

4.  .....gtg ...back Could be a bad fuel drop stoping up all filters see above for what the fix is. Most of the time you can tell if it is that because of the busiest dispensers will be slightly slower . Most stations the pumps closest to the entrance are the busiest .

You just got better , or the stations did not change there filters in time lol.

tag

It has always been mid-day when I've run into the super-slow pumps.

The two stations where I've experienced it are very high-volume sellers.
I don't think I've ever seen those stations where there was not at least one (usually several) pumps active.

Thanks for the info!

OK, old question from other threads.  Perhaps you can add facts.

When filling up my motorhome, some stations shut down the pump at $50.  When I grumble, they say that the CC companies set the limit.  I know that I can go to other stations with the same CC and not have a limit.  What's the truth?

Hello!  Where did everyone go?

Sorry missed it .

Thats a half truth .

The network sets the limit .... aka the middle man that handles the transaction . But theres a catch , depending on the software it can be adjustable in most cases .

This is how it happens , lets use a new site for an example . I Install the point of sale software that was developed by the middle man and the POS manufacture . After it is installed I call the network and get them to setup the download , the download contains card tables (types and limits) and site info tables (the amount of cardreaders at the site basicly) Once the down load is flagged for download I Force the POS into taking the DL . Once the download is complete then on about 90% of the oil brand software I can edit the card tables to the individual customers needs. Say they have alot of RVs or trucks on diesel pumps with card readers Ill turn up the limits to 300 or so bucks , with a authorize check of 400  . In other words  it will not let you pump if you have less then 400 in your account it will not authorize and it will stop pumping at 300 .

See you can see where the problem will be , by raising the limit you are making harder ppl with little money in their account to get gas. Which it is possible with most systems to put the authorize limit at 0 or less then the limit but thats suicide in this economy . Most stations run 75 to 125 limits , except on fleet and brand cards ie BP card which most run 150 to 200 fleet are way up there 300 to500 .

Hope this helps , any other questions feel free to ask.

Sorry about the response time Ive had alot going on the last 3 weeks . My sister ODed and we have geting her help , my grandpa was in the hospital for his breathing ,my uncle had heart surgery and have been working on a training course for my job.

Thanks

Every thing has almost calmed down now . My sister just got out of rehab and seems to be doing good , my grandpa was released after 4 days , and my uncle is at home recouping so I dont think it could have turned out any better . Im just praying now every one makes a full recovery . The work stuff always suck , kills all my free time

Thanks for the answers.  It helps to know why the POS pumps stop putting gas into my POS RV.

So what do you sale out of your RV?

for me
POS=point of Sale


When in person it means something else lol

Sometimes I have to work on a POS POS

Along with the manufacturers certification , are you required to have I.C.C. certification in Virginia?

Not for service that I know of , not sure about the construction guys though .

Ed Zachary my point!

Little news , might effect some of yall in the central north part of the country, picked off a petroleum tech site.

not my post,

Man we are getting hammered by diesel slow calls, you dump them out and it looks slimey, and when the pump has a screen it will be full of green slimey looking stuff. Pop on a new filter or screen, and bang you are good to go for a day or 2, then back to half speed or slower. I have talked to the companies, I thought it was gelling, but that was not the case. We thought it may be algae, but the shock did no good. We have lots of stations will all different brands of fuel with the same issue.
Now we even have 2 sites one with encores and one with eclipses that will not pump over 8 gpm even with a bypass cap on. Fuel pressure is 35 at the bypass cap and doesn't drop when pumping either. I am thinking that we have some sort of build up of this slime in the valves or meters.
I have heard that Marathon had a mishap where they accidentially dumped a cleaning agent in with a load of diesel at the bulk plant and now it is making a mess at every station it hits downstream in the MI, IN, IL, and OH area.
Anyone else hear about this or having issues.

We are/have been having major problems with bio-diesel blend in Illinois. Changing filters every few days....doesn't matter if its microglass, waterfinders, cardboard, bio-tek, 10 or 30 microns. We seem to be having the best luck with 30 micron particulate. A buddy of mine is a delivery driver and he says they have the same problem at the terminal just trying to load the tankers. He knows when he's dropping Marathon Bio-Blend he's literally putting garbage in the tank.

HOLY CRAP. Sites running ULSD, that sell less than 600 gallons per month are our biggest problems. Algae grows rampant, destroys the filters, which break apart and deposit all sorts of crap in valves and nozzles and meters, causing all kinds of problems from auto-shut-off failure, preset over-runs/under-runs, meter failure (especially LC meters), slow flow, nozzles and valves failing simultaneously causing gross line fails/LD trips, badly clogged swift-checks, pressure relief path at STP clogging up causing pressure spikes so high the check valve won't open, in turn causing a drain in line pressure when dispenser is authorized, causing subsequent gross line fail. Sheesh. We have spent a lot of money in repairs to many sites because of this crap. In the end we always have to treat the tanks with kathon to kill the algae, and continue to treat the tanks. It's costly, but more economical than all the damage to equipment.

"destroys filters, which break apart"
Does this mean it is getting to the consumer's tank too?

Most more and likly he is using filters with a pressure bypass so it gets stopped up and then the valve opens and lets the crap by , so yes you have crap but not the filter parts going into your tank.


Reading the post it seems the last one is by a chain store maintenance man ... Alot of them read up on our boards and try to fix it all themselves , which guarantees me long hours at their sites lol

When the pumps/dispensers run out of receipt paper, is there an alarm of some sort that alerts the attendants to come out and put a new roll of paper in the printer?

It pisses me off when I have to stop, lock my car up, walk inside and stand in line to get a receipt due to the printer being our of paper.

How about suggesting to the manufacturers that they start installing some kind of flashing LED that alerts drivers that a pump is out of printer paper?  That way people like me can skip that pump and find one that has paper.

Also:  Why do the windshield washer buckets smell so horrible sometimes?

Great info!!

Fighting the $75 card limit now at the local Hess. Doesn't matter if I choose debit or credit.

How am I supposed to fill the 34 gallon tank in my diesel truck at around $3 a gallon. Can't even by more than 25 gallons
I'd like to get an even larger tank and add some extra filtration. As it is I'm having to double swipe now and deal with multiple receipts/accounting entries.

I've checked with the bank. My POS limit is fine on my business check card.
I spoke with the station, just a worker, and they say it's corporate.
They must have lowered it because I can see in my records that I purchased >$90 before mid Oct.

Should I call corporate and complain or would I be wasting my breath?

Great info here! Thanks for taking the time to post.

I'm wondering what your opinion is of the various additives like Techron. Is it just marketing? Do you think its worth paying a bit more?

sorry double tap

One note from a non expert on something I saw in the first post. I only saw one other poster mention it and they didn't really explain.

He mentioned since the ethanol switch the high water alarms aren't going off as much. This is because the gas (actually the ethanol added to it) now absorbs the water instead of the gas and water forming separate layers. Eventually the ethanol absorbs enough water that it does separate from the gas and settles to the bottom. Ethanol blend fuels have a number of other issues too.

I own a boat, it has a 110 gallon tank. I go out of my way to fill it up at non ethanol stations. You probably won’t find one of these on the side of the road but if you have marinas with fuel docks there’s a good chance they are ethanol free.

What does this mean to you?

If all you have is a daily driver then nothing. Continue on as you are, if you haven’t had a problem you probably won’t ever have one.

If you have a vehicle that sits, or has sat for a while here's some info:

1) Something that was a problem at first: as fuel ages it will eventually turn in to a hard varnish and/or leave behind other gummy deposits. Most any vehicle will get deposits, normally it is not an issue, but the ethanol is a better solvent than the gas and will dissolve the deposits allowing them to mix in to the fuel. Probably not an issue by now for most people but if you have an old vehicle with original tank and lines that has never run on ethanol, clean the tank before use and change all the fuel lines. A good fuel filter will catch this stuff but it will clog it up quick. Eventually the deposits will all be gone and life will continue on as normal but if you aren't aware that this can be an issue it can create a lot of confusion as to why you are changing the fuel filter so often.

I’ve seen guys that had issues with old cars that took and cut the fuel lines apart. There was a sleeve of this varnish inside that had come loose once the ethanol got at it. Before the ethanol came along it was just a deposit on the inside of the fuel line. It wasn’t thick enough to restrict fuel flow so they never even knew it existed.

2) Given time, the gas and ethanol will separate. Adding water to the mix will speed this along. This causes a few odd things to happen. The ethanol will settle to the bottom, gas on top. Once the ethanol can’t hold any more water it will form a third layer between the ethanol and gas.

Now if you don’t have water, just separation, bad things can happen. Ethanol provides a significant portion of the octane in the blends. The ethanol layer will burn like really high octane fuel, but the gas layer will burn poorly and may cause pinging.

If you add water, more bad things can happen. Best case scenario your motor won’t burn the wetted ethanol. Worst case it does burn it and then reaches the water layer. The water layer definitely won’t burn and trying to burn it will cause lots of expensive repairs.

If you let it sit, look in to a stabilizing fuel additive. It will help prevent the ethanol and gas from separating. It will also help keep the ethanol from absorbing water.

Want to see something cool? On a humid day put some ethanol blend gas in a glass jar and sit it outside. You will be able to watch this process happen.

You can also test your ethanol content this way. Take 100ml of the blended gas and put it in a graduated container. Add 20ml of water. Stir and let settle. Now see how many ml of gas are sitting on top. For example if you have 92ml of gas on top of 28ml of ethanol and water, you had an 8% blend.

3) Keep your tanks full and keep your vehicle out of direct sunlight. The fuel expanding and contracting with temperature change will push air out of the tank and suck more back in. This is at it’s worst in humid areas with warm days and cool nights. During the day the fuel heats up and expands pushing air out of the tank. At night it cools and contracts sucking in air, and the humidity in it. If the tank is full the expansion and contraction is lessened. Topping off after use will also help keep the fuel fresh and avoid separation and water absorption issues.

I’ve probably missed some things here. If you want to know more go to a boating forum and do a search on ethanol. The ethanol issue affects boaters quite a bit because not every boat owner gets to use the boat as often as they might want and a lot of boats are stored on or near the water, an inherently humid place.