UPDATED:
SEE SCENARIO SURVIVAL HOWTO HALFWAY DOWN PAGE 4.


background:
you are a SF-savvy guy with a wife and a 10 year old kid.  your prep situation is pretty good; in the basement are a pair of 55gal blue drums of water, about 30 days of food of various sorts.  the BOV is fueled at least 3/4 full, and there are 5 MFC's of gas on hand.  there is a BOB for everyone -- even the 10 year old got a mini-BOB for his birthday last month.  

situation:
it's a saturday.  everyone is home doing chores and whatnot.  a small nuke hidden in a railcar goes off 25 miles away.  you know about this because the TV is on in the background, and cuts to a newsflash of the plume taken by a field reporter about 10 miles from ground zero.  a couple of news anchors are on hand at the studio, babbling about stuff they don't yet know much about.  offhand, you don't recall what the weather forecast is like, nor which direction the wind is prevailing from.  

what are your 10 next moves?

ar-jedi

Tag.

Also, you forgot to mention in your story about how the newspeople would mention that while they don't know what's going on, "We know it's not terrorism."

ETA:j

I'd probably bug in.  You're already pretty well set and I don't think that it would take much to do well where you're at.

1:  Move the family into the basement.

2:  Call any dear friends/relatives/neighbors on "the short list" and tell them to get over to your place pronto.  Bring any food, water, ammo, & supplies they can grab in the next 5 minutes.

3:  Bust out the visqueen & trash bags & start duct taping the AC vents, doors, & windows.

4:  Start singing kumbayaa with the kids while going over all the rifle's condition...Maybe get some quality time with the family.


And that's about as far as I've gotten.

ETAA:  Just checked out the wunderground thing.  Thought I would be fine until I realized that I'm less than 10 miles from the local AFB.  I'm doomed!

(Security first, have to have a safe place to think for a minute)
1.  Lock the door
2.  Grab the AR
(Now I need information so I can think)
3.  Go to www.wunderground.com to check if I'm downwind from the nuke
4.Do a google search to find out more info on tactical nukes (found out they can be bigger than we used on Japan)
(Assuming parents house (75 miles away) is not in the direction of fallout)
5.  Spend the next 10 minutes loading up truck with bugout gear following typed Evac punch list
6.Sidearms for my wife and I.  AR front seat.
7.  Start driving
8.  Call, or email, or text message status and plans to my parents
9.  Monitor news while driving, get wind direction updates from parents over the phone
10. Be very careful driving.

Gather my family, learn what I can about wind direction and weather.  Grab my survival kits, and if time, the 5h wheel, and head out.  Unless it shot its wad east of me, fall out is coming sooner or later with our weather patterns.  Survival kits include food, watter, cash, and plenty of self protection provisions.  We keep a signficant food supply at the house--but wind direction may prevent access.  The 5th wheel always has provisions for a week or two stored in it.  A nuke going off in any proximity is bad news.  Those are my uniformed thoughts having had a few seconds to think about.

Find out which way the winds are blowing and go the other direction.

TAG  ..bad ass thread.

Make a poll in GD

~Bug  Out?

~Bug In?
--------------------------

I would make sure I stayed upwind of the fallout and take all the minor roads and get the hell out of dodge.  

If I am not downwind of the plume, I am not going anywhere. Tac nuke shot should be 2kt or less, so a small mushroom cloud and not a lot of fallout. If my house is downwind of the plume, I will send my 19 yr old son to his mom's to escape radioactive iodine and cesium. I would start filling all water containers with fresh water before the filter plants shut down the inlets. Since I am over 50, a little fallout ain't gonna hurt the old man before something else does. Actually, that sort of radiation should mimic a release from a nuclear station having a core breach IIRC. Bad deal, but not like having a 300kt go off 25 miles away.

RS

Quoted: Tac nuke shot should be 2kt or less, RS

"Modern tactical nuclear warheads have yields up to the tens, or potentially hundreds of kilotons, several times that of the weapons used in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_nuclear_weapons

Like others said, first find out which way the wind is blowing. Then you'll be able to make any other decisions. Nothing else will matter until you find out where the fallout cloud is going. The amount of fallout  might be hard to predict, but the direction should be fairly easy to find out. It would be handy to know where the prevailing winds usually blow, but having a wind vane close to your home would be even more helpful(right then).

as I am at my Cali property till january. and more set up for fires and earthquakes and prepped for about 2 weeks here,,enough to move it all to the truck and head east to the BOL taking

1. close all windows
2. start filling sinks and tub
3. rolls of plastic on windows.
4. secure exterior and vehicle
5. get water containers from immediate area and fill..
6. offer assistance to neighbors..
7.8.9.wait it out for 72 hrs maybe a week
10 head to BOL if this is the begining..take 10 days 2 weeks in SHTF to get there from here

Bug in, I'd imagine traffic would be gridlock almost instantaneously


I'm not prepared for a nuke attack, I'd have to grab what I could and head for the basement.

Ideally, it would go more like

1) take potassium iodine
2) start filling up bathtub with water
3) seal up windows, fireplaces, ducts, etc
4) turn off utilities
5) head for basement
6) everything i need in basement already

I have no clue though how soon I would need to be in the shelter, how much material would protect me, how long I should stay there, a quick way to figure out wind direction, what kind of communication would still be working... and so on

Fill all spare water containers.

Break out the Geiger counters and make sure they're operational.

Duct tape:  seal windows on 1st floor and basement, close and tape off attic ventilators.

Double-check food and medical supplies, figuring on minimum 14 day in-house stay.

Monitor broadcast and local ham transmissions to monitor response, and watch news and weather data online to determine if we're in danger of significant fallout.

A tactical nuke 25 miles away is probably not going to do much, except to those up close to it.

If a tac nuke went off twenty-five miles away . . . ,
they missed any targets.  In a 25 mile radius, there is nothing of interest around here, unless they wanted to start a wild fire.

Bug-in.

Bugging out during a nuclear incident without really good intel is a suicide mission. Oh, and nobody I don't care how uber prepared they are or tacticool is going to know jack $%&* about what is going on or what to expect enough to make an informed decision in the time you'll need to.

You could head right into a radioactive cloud, get caught up in traffic, killed in the panic, or run right into a second blast.  Pure suicide.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those of you with a DSL or cable modem I encourage you to watch the videos below for those of you with old dial up I ask only "why?"  

nuclear war Part 1

nuclear war Part 2

nuclear war Part 3

Really scares the hell out of me. I am not afraid to admit that.  I believe that nuclear proliferation is really impossible to hault.  We will see a small nuclear exchange or terrorist incident in my life time.

 

Quoted: Bug in, I'd imagine traffic would be gridlock almost instantaneously I'm not prepared for a nuke attack, I'd have to grab what I could and head for the basement. Ideally, it would go more like 1) take potassium iodine 2) start filling up bathtub with water 3) seal up windows, fireplaces, ducts, etc 4) turn off utilities 5) head for basement 6) everything i need in basement already I have no clue though how soon I would need to be in the shelter, how much material would protect me, how long I should stay there, a quick way to figure out wind direction, what kind of communication would still be working... and so on

Watch the videos I posted above some awesome info on the distance and time it takes for each phase heat, blast, and radiation.

Good stuff above check it out if you can.

tag

Die

Taggage

Real life issue I am planning for.  Live within 15 miles of a large cargo port and my kids school is 10 miles from the port.

The plan includes how to quickly collect my kid(s) and then ass out to point A.  Point A is our lake house about 35 miles from the port.  If me, wife and kids cannot meet up, the plan is to meet at the lake.

We have food and other supplies stored there and can supply our evac from there.

The next evac location will be dependant on wind directions, etc... but will vary from Maryland, Tenn outwards to Montana....

Have evac routes planned out even if traffic is at a stand still...

Each kid is equiped with a cell phone and an 8 mile hand held radio in case power is out of cell lines are jammed....

The wife is reluctantly on board, but I am sure her attitude will change for the better as soon as the first incident occurs... women!!  

Hook the small 6x 10  tralier up to the BOV.

Load our bug out plastic bins onto it, spare 30 gallons of gas, mountian bikes  and drive to our BOL a couple 6 hours away.

It takes me and the family 13 mintues to be loaded up and down the road.
We have practiced this before.

If I'm not here it takes the wife and kids 20 mintues to load up. About the time it takes me to get home from work.


Even if BOV breaks down we have everything we need to keep going using the mountian bikes. and if need be going on foot. We do have a small BOL to camp at between our home and primary long term BOL if needed for some reason.

next question.

Tac Nuke?

Tens of kilotons if even that much.

Go inside, and stay hunkered down for a few days, listen to news about any fallout if any (should be minimal) and evac routes.

Might shave two or three years off your life, but that is about it.

1.  Check wind direction and location of blast.  

2.  Drop battery into rad detector, check readings.

3. Gather family if not at home,  fill water containers, move them into the areaway to the vault for more shielding if needed.  Take potassium iodate.

4.  Continue to monitor background radiation, slide kiddie pool atop vault and fill with water if necessary.  Set water sprinkler on roof of vault area to de-contaminate roof if needed.

5.  Contact the rest of the PA crew, plan any further action as needed.

Ops

I don't know who wrote that Wiki article, but what is the difference between a 100kt tac nuke and a 100kt strategic nuke to the people getting hit by it? NONE? The Strategic nuke with be detonated in the air to get maximum destruction of soft targets. Tactical nuke are used to knock out troops, tanks, and other military forces on the ground. Therefore the burst height is lower to get maximum effect again armor and dug in troops. The lower the burst, the more that terrain can deflect the overpressure wave and the rad flash. For us survivalists, this means a tac nuke may actually have more local fallout from blasting a big hole in the ground. Farther away, the fallout should be less. I can't play the nuclear war links at work, but will check them out at home.

RS

The OP said the nuke was in a rialcar, so the detonation would be at ground level.

1. How does that affect fallout?

2. How effective is plastic and duct-tape against nuclear fallout?

Also, if The Sept 11 attacks are a guide, the internet may be veeeery slow. Finding out what direction the wind is blowing by going online may take too long.

Quoted: I don't know who wrote that Wiki article, but what is the difference between a 100kt tac nuke and a 100kt strategic nuke to the people getting hit by it? NONE? The Strategic nuke with be detonated in the air to get maximum destruction of soft targets. Tactical nuke are used to knock out troops, tanks, and other military forces on the ground. Therefore the burst height is lower to get maximum effect again armor and dug in troops. The lower the burst, the more that terrain can deflect the overpressure wave and the rad flash. For us survivalists, this means a tac nuke may actually have more local fallout from blasting a big hole in the ground. Farther away, the fallout should be less. I can't play the nuclear war links at work, but will check them out at home. RS

I agree that wiki isn't the best source.  You got me curious, I confirmed the info from GlobalSecurity.org who is a much more reliable source.  I agree that in a traditional war the higher kilotons don't make a lot of sense, but it the world of terrorism, the yield would likely be the highest possible.

From GlobalSecurity.org: "yield to range from less than a kiloton to several hundred kilotons."

Upwind- bug in.

Downwind- bug out take Guns, food, water, supplies go to BOL/ family and hide.

Personally, probably nothing because you will probably be a bunch of atoms floating around.

Quoted: Personally, probably nothing because you will probably be a bunch of atoms floating around.

It would not kill you, not even close.

Quoted: Find out which way the winds are blowing and go the other direction.

No, do not do this.  Go at a direction at 90 degrees to the direction of the wind, i.e. perpendicular to wind direction.

Quoted: Quoted: Find out which way the winds are blowing and go the other direction. No, do not do this.  Go at a direction at 90 degrees to the direction of the wind, i.e. perpendicular to wind direction.

Why?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Find out which way the winds are blowing and go the other direction. No, do not do this.  Go at a direction at 90 degrees to the direction of the wind, i.e. perpendicular to wind direction. Why?

Because if the wind is bringing the fallout toward you, going the opposite direction of the wind would take you closer to where the nuke just went off.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Find out which way the winds are blowing and go the other direction. No, do not do this.  Go at a direction at 90 degrees to the direction of the wind, i.e. perpendicular to wind direction. Why? Because if the wind is bringing the fallout toward you, going the opposite direction of the wind would take you closer to where the nuke just went off.

Duh, i'm stupid

Check wind conditions to make sure I'm not downwind for fallout.

Try to find out if more are inbound provided the tv/radio is working

Gear up.

Load truck / bugout away from populated areas /blast zone.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Find out which way the winds are blowing and go the other direction. No, do not do this.  Go at a direction at 90 degrees to the direction of the wind, i.e. perpendicular to wind direction. Why? Because if the wind is bringing the fallout toward you, going the opposite direction of the wind would take you closer to where the nuke just went off.

Good point!!  But...  given your location, you should have a reasonable expectation of where a nuke will be set off!!  A shipping port...  a high risk target (i.e. NYC or DC)..

So...where are you in relation to the high risk target?   High altitude trade winds are generally west to east...   move to a safe point of assembly...  have a "meet up point normal (90 deg.) to the west to east windage... from there... you can collect your family, make good decisions based on current weather and move!!  

Where is your "meet up location?'...  I got one, do you?

if down-wind, climb into my ammo fort and hope the walls are thick enough to stop the backscatter radiation

if it was up-wind pile 12 cases of pork-n-beans and 6 cantainers of water into truck with other camping suppliesand  and head ninety degrees to wind direction and try to find a tunnel or overpass or tank farm to camp I would drive until suitable cover is found, then hunker down for 2 weeks, [ it is critical to get under cover fast to avoid sky radiation  but you also need to be out of the path of the fall out], and hope the weather pattern doesn't change, then continue away from ground zero and try to start life over in an uncontaminated area.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Find out which way the winds are blowing and go the other direction. No, do not do this.  Go at a direction at 90 degrees to the direction of the wind, i.e. perpendicular to wind direction. Why? Because if the wind is bringing the fallout toward you, going the opposite direction of the wind would take you closer to where the nuke just went off. Good point!!  But...  given your location, you should have a reasonable expectation of where a nuke will be set off!!  A shipping port...  a high risk target (i.e. NYC or DC).. So...where are you in relation to the high risk target?   High altitude trade winds are generally west to east...   move to a safe point of assembly...  have a "meet up point normal (90 deg.) to the west to east windage... from there... you can collect your family, make good decisions based on current weather and move!!   Where is your "meet up location?'...  I got one, do you?

Good threat assessments are hard to do against the people likely to attack us.  AQ has stated in their writings recently that they don't want those in suburban or rural areas feeling safe, so there is a reasonable expection of one hitting in podunk.

That being said, I think they'll follow the pattern of least resistance towards the most damage. I have nuke silos 15 miles from my front door, russia cared, terrorists wouldnt now that they are supposedly empty. Dallas is 350 miles away, Memphis is 140. Little Rock is 30.  Arkansas nuclear one is 50 miles wnw of me.  And a US Army chem weapons arsenal is 60 miles sse of me.  I bug IN

as the OP, i would like to point out a few more things to think about...

(1) arguing over the yield is pointless.  the device went off, and no one will know the approximate yield for days.  moreover, the design yield and actual yield may be two completely different numbers; in other words, because of a defect in the design, the nuke was more or less a "dud" -- but the result is that there is increased radioactive (i.e., unfissioned) material in the plume.  

(2) you should take into consideration others' reactions to such an event as part of your planning.  there will be folks who stand in front of their TV's for the next two hours, and there will be folks who immediately jump in their cars to go "somewhere".  the latter will, with 100% certainty, go in a direction away from the detonation.  on a work or school day, office buildings will empty in minutes, parents will seek their children from school, and the weather i left as a huge variable.  it could be snowing!

(3) in the basement, there is 30 days of water (110gals/3 people = 36gals per person, about 1.2gals per day -- certainly not a lot, but enough).  there is also 30 days of food.  for those of you that decided to BO, why are you leaving?  what was your rationale which led you to that decision?  did you consider there might be another nuclear device?

(4) at a range of 25 miles, with a nominal 10knot wind, you have about 2.5 hours to either hunker down or bug out.  if you do not reach your BO in ~2hrs, you will be "out in the open" per se, and subject to the whims of changing wind directions.  i would add some way points along your BO route so that if you get hung up due to traffic, and won't reach you destination, you have someplace to hunker down.

(5) those of you who said you'd BI at the house -- how long to stay downstairs? did you remember to switch off the furnace and/or A/C systems?  do you shut off the electric power at the panel? have you any plans for supplementary radiation barriers above the basement ceiling, etc?    

(6) about 60 seconds after the news broadcast, utilization of the phone network (cell and wired) will skyrocket.  it's unlikely that you will be able to reliably communicate -- this is exactly what happened in my AO during the 9/11 attacks.  i could not get in touch with my brother nor brother-in-law, who were both at work in downtown NYC.  basically, if CNN is showing a major "event" live, communications using phones will be sketchy.  our phone networks are simply not engineered for everyone to talk to everyone at the same time.



ar-jedi

Bugging out is suicide.  

There is a reason that every government Civil Defense film and book advocates bugging in during a nuclear attack.

You would have no way of knowing whether the blast was going to be just a singular event or part of a strategy that would be followed on by more tactical nuclear weapons or a missile strike.   You can guess, you can listen to what others are guessing at that point, but the intel is going to be WAY too sketchy to do a bug out.  Hell, the incident could cause a full blown nuclear exchange.  Remember 9/11 and the reports of missiles or that the first plane was an accident?  A lot of bad information is going to get out and not very quickly either.

More than likely you will only serve to help clog critical roads necessary for emergency workers and first responders.  You will also hamper efforts to capture anyone that could be responsible.  While emergency services are forced to deal with automobile accidents and traffic control many in need of aid will die. People will be horribly burned, sliced up from flying glass, in pain from broken bones, and yes more critical areas than your home 25 miles away will need to be evacuated.

Too each their own though and I really do wish everyone who is ready to run for the hills the best of luck. I just hope it doesn't cost them and others their lives.

Go underground, listen to ham, play scrabble/monopoly/txhold'em, get bored, listen to more ham, discuss which would be most benifitial to the country, a hit on D.C. or San Fransisco, beenie-weenies, re-read all books, reload any emptys, check rad. levels, repeat....

tagged for reading later...

Bugging out for me is getting my family away from the city people.

We live in the hills outside of town, 12 familes with a 1/2mile between us ,three miles at the end of a road most people don't even realize that their are homes at the end of.

If I have time to get away before the city people get to me. I am going to a real remote location.

I suppose if YOU live IN the city then....good luck with the bugging in thing, you will need it.


Do you have plan B if your bugging in plan A don't work out?

In the scenario
1. Lock the door
2. Check out the display for the weather station on my roof.  Determiine relevant weather conditions
3.Notify the firends and family.  If any are nearby, invite them over with as much useful stuff they can carry
4. Take appropriate precautions to seal up my house
5-10 wait.  wait some more.  get really good at solitaire.

In real life
1. Grab the Oh Shit Kit and haul ass for the car.
2. Get to the office any which way I can
3. Pull out a set of MOPP gear, have it ready
4. Break out guns, get them ready to issue.
5. Load up M-16 and M9 with plenty o' ammo
6. Gear up, help hook up trucks to boat trailers
7. Stash some more MRE's in my bag
8. Double check med-kit, personal gear, weapons, and any radio I may have
9. Roll out the front gate headed towards the funny shaped cloud
10. Get to work, doin what I'm trained to, protect important stuff.

Call Dusty_C to see which way he is going.


Go the opposite way.
Seriously, I would call him to see if I could get a ride, I bet his rig can go alot farther than I on a tank of gas.

Depending on which direction the blast occured and which way the wind was directing the fallout I would decide on which location to Bugout !

25 miles of a nuclear blast is too close for comfort for bugging in! fallout can and WILL shift and the area will be hot for along time!

The masses will be evacuating with all hell's hysteria and you WILL see zombies at your door step! You will not survive the millions of people attempting to escape the areas adjacent to ground zero!

So, If the initial blast area is not in my escape route to "Gnomeland" its been named this for the reason it is about 1 mile in the earth.. thats where I would be bugging out! But my INITIAL STEP is NBC gear to be distributed to family!

Step 1)Contact crew members.. depending on comms which is also my weakest area of preps(thanks for this thread)If unable to contact I move to "GL" directly

step2) E/E of hostile area and load out equipment and personnel

Step 3) If contact has been made to crew.. meet at station one (if safe from blast area)if not move to secondary and tertiary meeting points

Step 4) Regrouping and determining area's of strengths and weaknesses,supply's and weapons count and distribution to able personnel  

Step 5) Move to "GL" with predetermined routes while letting my comms guy do his thing..scanning radio freq for emergency information and bottlenecks in transportation routes 1-5

Step 6) moving to avoid frendly and/or Hostiles! The key being invisible!

Step 7) arrive at "GL" where we are able to wait it out for no less that 24 months depending on longevity of supplies/rations

First, it's a new world.

Second, if the blast hasn't killed you, it won't. The threats then are radiation and public panic.

Third, due to the 2 threats, bugging in for at least 2 weeks is mandatory. Going anywhere regardless of the wind is not wise.

Fourth, I already have in place: water, food, Ham radios, meds, arms, etc. for at least 6 months.

Fifth, the basement has a half finished concrete floor. I'm spending the next two weeks digging and tunneling into the backyard about 15 feet under the surface. 15 feet of dirt will mitigate most fallout, and having a secure tunnel network in this new world is probably a good thing. The dirt from the tunnels will also create mass between us and the fallout as well.

For all you folks who voted to bug-in, remember your KI pills supply, otherwise your chances of getting thyroid gland cancer is increase.

1. if the phones are still working call any cute single girls I know and let them know they can be safe with me
(heck why survive and be alone)
2. Start sealing house and secure everything
3. start filling up anything to store EXTRA water
4. surf AR15.com to get the scoop
5. wait and see what's going on. I already have all my preps ready to go so not much I can do besides wait (unless one of those girls took my offer)

to the OPs set up.


nuke goes off....gather what intel off TV.
Turn on my SW and NOAA radios.
check wind direction outside.
check that info to my AO maps.
Make one last email to freinds/family with my plans.
check weather via wunderground(as said check this...site..it is better than most for local info!!!! )
try cell service

turn off gas to dwelling
fill as much h20 containers as i could. Then turn off h20 to dwelling.
move all supplies to the center/most protected part of my dwelling.
Start sheilding that spot as best i can,
Make improvised in home "bunker

seal all window seams and door seams( foil a/c tape here guys  plastic duct tape comes lose after a few days- learned that from my live in + pressure experiment year back or so ) blockcage front door .

If liberia pt 2 hasnt started here, i will attempt to gas up my truck or least siphon out the wifes car, into  my spare tanks.

if liberia pt.2 has started, it'll be go time  for sure.

if not,
once all supplies are reloacted to the "bunker" nbc gear will be handed out, and  put to use if needed.

besides that , it will be monitor info via, scanner,Ham radio, NOAA, and SW along with am/fm. Notes will be taken and compared to my BO routes.

if after a few days/to weeks it all clears up( low yeild, fallout whatever) and BO is possible, we will evac to BOL's of choice.

If not, we will be stuck under martial law/closer of freeways and black helo's


Im not really set up 100% fer Nuke,,, so it a basic BI plan untill smoke clears .....but the sooner i can BO the better,,,,it'll turn into  lil monorvia here fast with out utilities etc.
YMMV