I've been told so many times to "go be poor somewhere else" so I'm coming here.

Behold, two different stuff sacks. One I got at rei for $12, the cheaper version being something like $9. Most stuff sacks they were selling were between $15-30 for a tiny nylon bag.

Then there's this monstrosity on the left i got at academy, literally bigger than my pack, weighing a fraction above the purple rei one, and I paid $4.95.

Even if it's a piece of crap and only lasts 6mo, I got my money's worth. How can the other prices be justified? Are ultra lighters that gullible? Or is there something I'm missing? Both are made in China btw.

That green one looks expensive

I've about had it with rei too.  No, I am done with them.  Anti gun as hell too.

Oftentimes is name-branding that drives up the prices.  With that said, there are differences in how companies outsource production in China; material grade, construction, QA/QC, etc.  Then there are issues with niche products.  Higher costs will often get applied to ultra-lightweight products just because there are few options (supply and demand).  The good news is that there are tons of options, it just takes time to research...

ROCK6

Im confused about your semi rant with regard to cheap alternatives, with a top shelf Osprey pack in the picture...

The REI stuffsack was the cheapest alternative they had.  SeaToSummit (they make great worthwhile sporks) was insane.

There are things that are worth the expense, like top-shelf Osprey packs, shoes, tents, etc..  (I paid $160 for it, btw.  Kestrel 48 is an awesome pack)

It's another argument entirely when it comes to ancillary things like bags to stuff your stuff in.

I agree then. I couldnt afford the Osprey and went with a Deuter which is still a very nice pack and I am very happy with it.

There are some good cheap alternatives but the older I get, the more I am willing to pay to shave a pound here and there from my gear list. I admit to loving my titanium cup and cook set...

I just went out for my first overnight in my hammock setup and I got shamed hard for my choices with that gear list. The hammocking community is fucking harsh in the forums, kinda like gun forums :)

Theres no winning with outdoor gear retailer's politics though. You gotta buy some shit if you want the shit...the best I can do is score whatever I can from craigslist.

Until the difference between life and death is a dry sleeping bag or dry clothes. Sometimes, maybe in this case and maybe not, you do get what you pay for.

The cost is justified with an actual dry bag.  These aren't dry bags though.

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I think for the slim margin odds and ends like stuff sacks, you're gonna pay for the branding.  Unless it's seam sealed, or a specialty item like you mentioned.  There's probably also some sort of "convenience" tax built in as well.  "Well honey while we're here at REI, we might as well grab some stuff sacks."

The cheap ones could also be polyester vs nylon but I'm no expert on that.

With the cheap stuff, I find the quality and longevity hit or miss.  I've got some cheap Walmart, roll top "dry bags" that have lasted forever.  A few years ago I thought to add a few more.  The seam taping on those delammed and peeled off within a year.  

I've had a giant Sea to Summit ultralight dry bag for many years now that is still chugging along.  It's ultralight so a couple pinprick holes were not unexpected.  But the seam tape and waterproof coating are still intact.  A little repair tape and it's back to work.

I guess it pays to shop around and cut corners when you need to.




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Smart outdoors people dont shop at REI.

There are some deals on rei outlet though, especially if you have a coupon.

But yeah, REI sells gear to people who have a romantic fling with looking outdoorsy but not actually using their stuff hard enough to actually need the benefits that gear provides.

Im not really speaking about the brands they sell, becaus much of their stuff is technically adequate for the advertized function....REI itself caters to that particular niche.

BEST IS THE ENEMY OF GOOD.

Not shouting, we seem to miss out that the continual push to upgrade products means more exotic materials in strange new weaves with "leading edge" ways of reversing zippers to enhance water resistance and blah blah blah.

Of course the expensive stuff is expensive. It's very small lot production with low run footage mill goods nobody else can get, with a team of experienced users kibitzing over every tiny detail. And when that Brand offers something mundane,  you get the same overhead costs even if it's a simple drawstring stuff bag.

The problem is that humans tend toward risk managing stuff by sticking to some favorite Brands because "quality" and bluntly, being gear snobs, to the top dollar means nothing to them because they can't go wrong with it. They think.

But, like divers who buy Rolex Submariners for a back up to their dive computer - they could have financed the entire trip for the price of a discretionary and basically low priority piece of gear. Nope, that Rolex was really social enhancement.

Best is the enemy of good.

I usually buy army surplus and done. For what little long distance walking I can accomplish anymore, it's extremely durable and for the most part just as state of the art as anything in Walmart or Dunhams/Academy. Not to forget shopping thrift and resale stores, I've picked up my share of good quality used stuff there too.

Frankly, shopping for new is the enemy of good. And if someone thinks they can only use Branded high end gear from the nearest urban "mountain" shop, it's not really utility they are looking for. It's the recognition of wearing "North Face" where the public and coworkers will always see it.

Ego.

Because of that snippy little contest I choose to avoid Branding myself with anything. I don't need large words splashed down my sleeves and legs.

Branding does identify a source of quality goods but when the marketing effort is the Brand itself and not the merchandise it's basically selling to those with little self esteem who need constant support and are willing to pay for it. Might be why we see it done more by those who support SJW's and controversial issues.

It all depends on use. I'll buy top of the line because it has a generally well-deserved reputation for lasting forever, and I'll keep it forever. Snap-on tools over decent but not in the same league stuff by Craftsman, SK, etc. I could buy a pair of Yukon Charlie's snowshoes and go 80% of the places my more-expensive MSR, GV, or Louis Garneau 'shoes will take me, but I've found out through use that mine will take the abuse of icy, rocky hills & mountains and not fail when I can least afford it. I've talked with plenty of people who spent almost $300 on a pair of MSR Lightning Ascents just to do laps around the golf course, too. They're usually wearing Arcteryx, Helly Hansen, or whatever the latest fad brand is. It's like the yoga pants of outdoor gear.

Sometimes the most expensive stuff has little features missing from otherwise serviceable lower cost stuff. My EMS rain jackets have pockets low on the jacket and they're covered up by my pack waist belt. Unbuckling with heavy gloves on is a PITA, but if you spend the money for Arcteryx or Outdoor Research you get pockets higher on the jacket and out of the way of pack belts or climbing harnesses. (My solution was to replace the waist belt with a longer one that I can loosen at the buckle, $3-400 for higher pockets was a little too much for me.)

Sometimes the top of the line stuff is made in more sizes; some Asolo, Salewa, and Keen boots come in wide sizes that fit me better than other brands that may or may not cost less. Merrell, Vasque, and Oboz all fit me terribly.

I rarely pay full price for my outdoor gear, there are plenty of discount & closeout sites, some offer cash back, and if you wait a week or 3 you can often find branded stuff on sale for close to store-brand prices. A few years back I got 3 pairs of closeout TNF ski pants from REI Outlet for about $125, or about 25% of MSRP. One pair I gave to a friend because my waist size was between 2 different sizes. Buying rental gear when it's being replaced is a good way to get stuff for around 50% off, if you know how to inspect it or are willing to take a chance. I bought a pair of rental MSR Flight 2 poles for $60, or about 1/2 price, sight unseen and the only wear on them was from storage & handling.

How hold on there...

I think we can all agree that yoga pants are well worth the price.    

I've been going back and forth trying to find deals on the last parts of my backpacking kit. It's taken me about a year to get to this point.  All I'm really missing are a decent base layer, and I'm trying to figure out if I should pay $50 for something at an outdoors store, or $10 for a fruit-of-the-loom set that is made of the same material, and made in the same country.  

I've been able to find some great deals on REI's site, so don't necessarily believe it only caters to folks wanting to be seen, although I'm sure those people love to shop there.  My wife was laughing at me because I got what I thought was a "screaming deal" on the garage site, a pair of $80 Marmot pants for $30.  She told me that's what they should've cost to begin with, but I got $$$ in my eyes and couldn't be reasoned with.  They ARE a great pair of pants and fit snugly (my legs are huge) but stretch just enough.  At first I thought they were the skinny jeans of hiking pants, but it doesn't show in the mirror lol.

My favorite base layer is plain old GI silkweight polypro I got maybe 5 years ago from eBay. It's not the best technical stuff I have, but being very warm-blooded the thinness is more important than how well it wicks. I do need to start thinking about replacing it all for next winter, though, as I'm sure a lot of it is just worn out from age.

I've got some good base layers from of all places.
Target.
Their C9 brand stuff is ..was decent.
I've got two pairs of merino low cut..ultra light hiker socks. I bought 10 years ago.  Almost daily wear.
Still going strong.
Same for their silk weight base and a mid weight merino set I got.
I hit up
Tj max..bealles outlets etc.
Patagoina shirts 20$..exeffecio stuff the same..Columbia..north face..Kelly..etc etc etc..
Got a Kelly 20f down bag for 30$ once.

I started making my tarps for the reason I could make it for 25$  vs 70-100(what silnylon tarps cost 10 years ago).
Clothing is no different..finger bang the good shot...find cheaper alternatives else where.

As I pointed out about base layers etc.

Besides my pack and boots..sleeping bag..almost 98% of my gear is stuff I've bargain hunted for or used alternatives.

It's easy to bust on REI's balls given the flood of recent high-end clientele and of course, their higher prices.  I've been a member since 1991 when they were one of a few premier outdoor retailers.  The only time I shop there is for their bargain deals and sales; however, some purchases are for their return policy.  For those in more remote conditions, REI can be a great source to try footwear or a pack with a good return policy if they don't fit right.  Their biggest issue is becoming mainstream for the snobs that never go outdoors but like to dress and look like they do...this often drives up prices and caters to elitists which kind of sucks.  The other advantage is that if you live near an REI, they do offer various classes (some free, some at cost).  

I've found REI lately to be a great place to go and get fitted for a pack, try on clothing and footwear or checkout specific gear where you can weigh and feel it...and then go find a better deal elsewhere.  REI is one of the few outdoors stores where most of the sales people are actually knowledgeable of the outdoors activities they're working in.  I still run into a few morons, but most actually live and do what they preach. The only way I would ever pay full price is if it's an item that I just can get anywhere else (which would be extremely rare) or I was in a bind and needed something in a hurry and REI is just a (expensive) convenience.    

ROCK6

Oh no, you didn't bring an ENO, did you? 

I rock an ENO while wearing flip-flops to the range.

Your newsletter. I'd like to subscribe.

Durka - You are not missing anything. It is a piece of nylon with some simple stitching. No need to spend $15 for ‘name brand’. On other things you do get what you pay for but there is a diminishing cost to benefit ratio as you go up in price. I just bought a new rain jacket. $90 everywhere - on sale for $45. The next level up is in the $150 range for no visible or functional benefit. Humm…. $45 vs $150 is a no brainer even, like you said, it doesn't last as long.


REI -

I find the REI Store in Reno is a great place for small items: water bottles, fuel bottles, head lamps, etc. There is no substitute for touchy-feely on some things.

My standard issue dress in a long sleeve cotton tee, jeans and trail runners (normal around here). On a recent trip to REI, I felt out of place. The majority of customers were people that ‘looked like they just stepped of a catalog’ and were unabashedly looking me up and down as they pretended to be shopping. Even fixating on the shoes I was wearing. WTF -> Who looks at someones shoes and WHY do you care?  Very very bazaar!

I’m the kind of person that doesn’t give a rats rear what other people think but admittedly I was a little uncomfortable being scrutinized…. I didn’t make the grade because I was not wearing $100 pants? Do they throw their stuff out if it gets pine sap on it?

I agree with Rock. The REI employees are knowledgeable mt. bums, friendly, helpful and actual use the gear they sell.

With the way the trail volunteers down here from the trails. Id wager yes. 

I mean for fuck all. They cut the trail back enough for a fucking jeep to drive down it.
But never past 3 miles from a trail head.
Pussies.
Lug that chainsaw and echo weedwacker 10. Patchouli sniffing tree humpers.

We actually say it like this when we see it bad.

"Omg I got nature on me...yuck.."
And you'll get a reply from me or my wife/friends
"Hurry get it off..it stains"


I wear pair of Columbia pants..tgat are omnishield they are nice gusseted crotch..baggy at below the knee..and dry super fast. Almost look like dress paints.
29$ on sale.
I wear clumbia..ex effcio shirts that gasp.
I got at Bealles outlets....my socks are tjmaxx bought Cabot and sons or smartwools.
My hats a nike drifit hat..its grungy and sweat stained now.

When I see a walking REI catalog ..following a campmor catalog..i normally just step of the trail and let them pass.....
Me with dirt stand on my pants knees...ny muddy boots...sweaty hat and molle laden kelty..soaking up nature....
Vs dodging it.


Though..i do like the options out there vs what I grew up hiking in in the 80s..
Bdu/jeans and t shirt....
Getting older making me soft..

Gear is so expensive, I like looking on Craigslist or trading.  Also goodwill is another option