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Posted: 7/18/2016 12:03:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Awwwww. Dang.  It's fine to leave it set up, but get that wax out of there or the wax moths will destroy it and make the worst mess you've ever sen in your life. The smell that's in there will be a good thing. You may well attract a swarm. But you would be amazed how fast wax moths will destroy that comb. In fact, I would freeze it if you plan to store it for any time. The freezing kills the wax moth larvae. Glad you plan to stay with bees. I admit that I'm no help at all, as my first thought would be, "they thought they didn't have any room because they were at the top of the hive." But that's not how your hive works. Wish I could help more.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol: DISASTER!!! They gone Went to take a look tonight, and there were only a few bees there. Few dozen or so. Honey is gone. No dead bees anywhere. I imagine they swarmed. Not sure why, guess I will never know. Don't think it was room: they had an entire empty box yet. Anyway, was wondering if there was any reason to leave it setup, just in case another swarm decided to make a home. If there is no good reason, I will harvest the wax, break them down, and wait to try next year. Also going to get in with a local beekeeping club, but since I use Warre hives, not sure if they can help me out anyway. Maybe I can at least get a line on some true Minnesota raised bees, instead of imports from California. Awwwww. Dang. It's fine to leave it set up, but get that wax out of there or the wax moths will destroy it and make the worst mess you've ever sen in your life. The smell that's in there will be a good thing. You may well attract a swarm. But you would be amazed how fast wax moths will destroy that comb. In fact, I would freeze it if you plan to store it for any time. The freezing kills the wax moth larvae. Glad you plan to stay with bees. I admit that I'm no help at all, as my first thought would be, "they thought they didn't have any room because they were at the top of the hive." But that's not how your hive works. Wish I could help more. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 12:05:17 AM EDT
[#2]
new page?
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Posted: 7/18/2016 12:11:05 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
I'll try to take some pics as I take down the hive, probably tomorrow. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
DISASTER!!! They gone
Went to take a look tonight, and there were only a few bees there. Few dozen or so. Honey is gone. No dead bees anywhere. I imagine they swarmed. Not sure why, guess I will never know. Don't think it was room: they had an entire empty box yet. Anyway, was wondering if there was any reason to leave it setup, just in case another swarm decided to make a home. If there is no good reason, I will harvest the wax, break them down, and wait to try next year. Also going to get in with a local beekeeping club, but since I use Warre hives, not sure if they can help me out anyway. Maybe I can at least get a line on some true Minnesota raised bees, instead of imports from California. Awwwww. Dang.
It's fine to leave it set up, but get that wax out of there or the wax moths will destroy it and make the worst mess you've ever sen in your life. The smell that's in there will be a good thing. You may well attract a swarm. But you would be amazed how fast wax moths will destroy that comb. In fact, I would freeze it if you plan to store it for any time. The freezing kills the wax moth larvae. Glad you plan to stay with bees. I admit that I'm no help at all, as my first thought would be, "they thought they didn't have any room because they were at the top of the hive." But that's not how your hive works. Wish I could help more. Rat Patrol...if that were my hive, I would try to freeze that comb in sections as close to normal as possible so I could give it to a swarm that decides to move in...because we're so late in the year. Having drawn comb would really help them get going and increase the chances taht they might make it. However, I don't know how you would give it to them in a useful way in that hive. I rubber band mine into Langstroth frames and they can just attache it to the edges and clean it up and have a head start. But your hive doesn't use any frames, right? You might could find something on the web about Ware hives and swarming, and the details of things like this. Have you been to Beesource.com? I would have thought they'd have a Warre hive forum over there if this is catching on at all... I think aligning yourself with local beekeepers is a great idea anyway, because bee behavior and health is......bee behavior and health. How we manage it is what makes it different. You may be the only one in the bee club with that kind of hive. But somebody might say, "there's a lady over in X community that's got three of them." And poof...you've got a resource. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 1:08:14 AM EDT
[#4]
I'll take some pics of the comb, see what you think.
I can maybe save some comb, but our freezers are PACKED full right now. (and I mean PACKED; we just bought a whole hog and half a steer). Odds are though, it would get destroyed from rummaging through the freezers . There isn't frames, but it utilizes top bars like a top bar hive. The comb is attached to that. There are a couple that are nice, straight and long, so I can surely attempt to save a couple. I am going to utilize the semi-frame modification to these bars that I have seen online, will post some pics. All I will be doing is drilling a hole and adding a piece of wooden dowel at either end. Just allows for much stronger attachment of comb to the bars so if I have to take out single combs again, they don't fall off. What are the realistic odds of catching a swarm in the hive's current location this time of year? Its been a warm summer, was a very early spring up here. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 1:13:31 AM EDT
[#5]
I haven't signed up for beesource yet, but IIRC the DO have a section for the Warre hives.
I really do like how they work (in theory anyway). Hopefully I can make them work. I have two primary theories: A: One empty box on the bottom wasn't enough. Solved by making sure they have 2 empty boxes during the summer (you reduce to 2 full boxes for wintering) B: They found a source of flowers somewhere else, and decided to be closer to food. Already planning on plowing over a bunch of un-used little bits of land around the place and spreading wildflower seed mixes like crazy. I Think it was B. While they were drawing comb very well when the clovers were in full bloom, I wonder if they didn't already make the decision to leave. I haven't checked on them since my last post where I reported everything was going well. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 2:32:29 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
DISASTER!!! They gone
Went to take a look tonight, and there were only a few bees there. Few dozen or so. Honey is gone. No dead bees anywhere. I imagine they swarmed. Not sure why, guess I will never know. Don't think it was room: they had an entire empty box yet. Anyway, was wondering if there was any reason to leave it setup, just in case another swarm decided to make a home. If there is no good reason, I will harvest the wax, break them down, and wait to try next year. Also going to get in with a local beekeeping club, but since I use Warre hives, not sure if they can help me out anyway. Maybe I can at least get a line on some true Minnesota raised bees, instead of imports from California. Sorry to hear about it! That is my own worst nightmare about my bees. They sometimes seem to be sort of frenetically buzzing round the hive for no apparent reason. I too have more than half my hive available to them. They are building more comb (I have 6 bars with comb, instead of the 4 I started with) but who knows why they'll leave. Did you notice any strange activity before they left: frenetically buzzing around the hive, unusual sensitivity to your presence, etc? |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 8:05:40 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
I'll take some pics of the comb, see what you think. I can maybe save some comb, but our freezers are PACKED full right now. (and I mean PACKED; we just bought a whole hog and half a steer). Odds are though, it would get destroyed from rummaging through the freezers .
There isn't frames, but it utilizes top bars like a top bar hive. The comb is attached to that. There are a couple that are nice, straight and long, so I can surely attempt to save a couple. I am going to utilize the semi-frame modification to these bars that I have seen online, will post some pics. All I will be doing is drilling a hole and adding a piece of wooden dowel at either end. Just allows for much stronger attachment of comb to the bars so if I have to take out single combs again, they don't fall off. What are the realistic odds of catching a swarm in the hive's current location this time of year? Its been a warm summer, was a very early spring up here. Sorry to hear that they swarmed on you. From what I have learned, bees tend to swarm to a location that has or had bees at one time. Because of this I always leave a swarm trap up in my apiary. As far as catching a swarm this late, one of mine swarmed last week so it is both possible for them to cast and possibly catch a swarm this late. Having them build up enough to survive winter is a different story. If I where to catch a swarm now, they would either be Overwintered in a Nuc set-up or combined with a weaker hive. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 6:52:59 PM EDT
[#8]
ALL MAY NOT BE LOST!!!
Pics uploading now. Sneak peak: did my queen die, and do I have a queen cell? More bees than I previously thought, but numbers very low. Many bees can be seen foraging around the yard. Cell phone pics on the way.. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 7:21:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
ALL MAY NOT BE LOST!!! Pics uploading now. Sneak peak: did my queen die, and do I have a queen cell? More bees than I previously thought, but numbers very low. Many bees can be seen foraging around the yard. Cell phone pics on the way.. Awaiting pics 
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Posted: 7/18/2016 7:46:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Just tell me what you see:
     Those first 5 were the comb that fell down earlier this year that I placed on the top of the bottom box bars. They never really seemed to use it, so I took it out. No honey in it, looks like some pollen? and a couple brood that died trying to get out? Pics of the hive:     |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 9:55:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rat_Patrol]
[#11]
Now that the internet is back, here are the final two pics I took before putting the hive back together today.
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Posted: 7/18/2016 10:11:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rat_Patrol]
[#12]
So there it is.
I saw no larvae at all. Very little capped brood, but what is that big zit looking thing? I only took out the two bars on the left (as a unit). I didn't disturb the others, but looks like I will have to do some damage to get the others out as they bridged the comb together in a few spots. There was a mix of un-capped honey (maybe 60% of the cells) and very little capped brood in the two combs I took out and inspected. No sign of larvae. I still see no dead bees, except about a half dozen that died as they were coming out of the comb. Is that normal? There is noticeably more bees foraging around they yard than ever. Is it wrong that I am not killing off the cockle burrs and thistle so they have more flowers?  Theory: They JUST finished spraying the fields with poison a week or so ago. Did they kill off most of my bees? Hate chemical farming... I didn't see the queen, but that isn't surprising since I could not inspect every comb. The bees did seem concentrated in a particular area, perhaps that is where the queen was. Going on the theory that I still have a queen, or they are making another, I plan on giving syrup again (they quit taking it a while ago) and help them any way I can. Oh, when I was in the hive, a single hornet was around briefly and then flew off. There was also this thing that looked like a cross between a horse fly and a bee that was running around on one of the combs I removed (I think it flew in from outside the hive, but not 100%. It flew off about 4 seconds after I saw it, I never saw it again. Again, no dead bees around inside or outside the hive. Experts, please chime in! |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 10:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
I haven't signed up for beesource yet, but IIRC the DO have a section for the Warre hives. I really do like how they work (in theory anyway). Hopefully I can make them work. I have two primary theories: A: One empty box on the bottom wasn't enough. Solved by making sure they have 2 empty boxes during the summer (you reduce to 2 full boxes for wintering) B: They found a source of flowers somewhere else, and decided to be closer to food. Already planning on plowing over a bunch of un-used little bits of land around the place and spreading wildflower seed mixes like crazy. I Think it was B. While they were drawing comb very well when the clovers were in full bloom, I wonder if they didn't already make the decision to leave. I haven't checked on them since my last post where I reported everything was going well. I would say that my guess would be A. Bees USUALLY swarm because they feel like they don't have room. Okay that's a GROSS oversimplification of why bees do what they do. But they forage for about five miles. If they find something in that radius, they bring it home. If they don't find something in that radius, they don't. So when you look at the work they did this spring to build that hive, and the work they will have to do (and likely will not be ABLE to do before winter) to get that set again before winter hits, you will understand that they don't just pick up and move house because they found a flower they like at the edge of the five-mile radius. They know flowers don't bloom for long. (Yes, they do know. They have this understanding built into them over centuries...that is my belief.) I would almost lay money on the table that your bees did not find something they liked better. They left because things were not to their liking. Other beekeepers...PLEASE disagree with me here if you do, and explain why so we all gain knowledge. That knowledge (if you agree with it) can help you in your next attempt. And so you know...we ALL lose bees to swarming. We all lose them to robbing. We all lose them to going queenless. Beekeepers lose bees. You either lose bees sooner, or you lose bees later. But beekeepers lose bees. Welcome to beekeeping. Now...do two hives next time. Maybe do a Lang and a Warre and see what you think of each. If you were closer I would give you all the stuff you need to set up a Lang. I doubt I could ship it to you for the money it would cost you to buy it. 
I'm not trying to get you to go Lang. But I think that education beside what you're already doing would be of great value to you. One will transfer to the other in many ways...as far as basic "beeworthiness"...yeah. I'm making that up. There is such a thing as "seaworthiness." "Beeworthiness" makes sense to me. You know what your doing and your ship will hold water... We all take our turns falling into the drink before we become beeworthy. And that drink is...losing bees. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 10:28:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
So there it is. I saw no larvae at all. Very little capped brood, but what is that big zit looking thing? I only took out the two bars on the left (as a unit). I didn't disturb the others, but looks like I will have to do some damage to get the others out as they bridged the comb together in a few spots. There was a mix of un-capped honey (maybe 60% of the cells) and very little capped brood in the two combs I took out and inspected. No sign of larvae. I still see no dead bees, except about a half dozen that died as they were coming out of the comb. Is that normal? There is noticeably more bees foraging around they yard than ever. Is it wrong that I am not killing off the cockle burrs and thistle so they have more flowers?
Theory: They JUST finished spraying the fields with poison a week or so ago. Did they kill off most of my bees? Hate chemical farming... I didn't see the queen, but that isn't surprising since I could not inspect every comb. The bees did seem concentrated in a particular area, perhaps that is where the queen was. Going on the theory that I still have a queen, or they are making another, I plan on giving syrup again (they quit taking it a while ago) and help them any way I can. Oh, when I was in the hive, a single hornet was around briefly and then flew off. There was also this thing that looked like a cross between a horse fly and a bee that was running around on one of the combs I removed (I think it flew in from outside the hive, but not 100%. It flew off about 4 seconds after I saw it, I never saw it again. Again, no dead bees around inside or outside the hive. Experts, please chime in! I see at least two queen cups, but I don't know whether that at the bottom is a queen cell. I am editing to say...I think that's a queen cell. And I bet you have others in the dark spaces in that comb. Before I said the following: I've never seen one that looked like that, but other beekeepers may have. It doesn't look UNLIKE what a queen cell could be...but....usually there would be more than one. Still true, but I think that's a queen cell. And I'm hoping you have others. I think your hive has swarmed. Okay, end edit and back to what I said before: You also might have a queen cell in the middle of all those combs. Here is what you need to find out/ask yourself. What was in the fields around you? Was it blooming? What did they spray on it? It is ENTIRELY possible that you got a chemical killl. BUT...it is also entirely possible that your hive swarmed. If you have no eggs, then either your hive swarmed, or you are queenless for some other reason. You need to know what is growing around you, whether it was blooming and what they did to it. And FYI...for freezing comb..you only need to freeze it for a day or two. then you can take it out and put it away in sealed boxes and you won't have wax moths. I don't remember the exact time you have to hold it below freezing. Right now, if you have only a few bees, you will need to consider reducing the size of your hive so that they can defend it IF there is comb everywhere. Reduce your entrance again (if you ever opened it up) and find out where you can get a new queen, in case you don't have one. If you don't see eggs or brood, chances are your queen is gone. I DOUBT they would have left the hive with only one queen cell. Dux and Cutting Edge may have more to say about this. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 10:42:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Around us is corn and soy beans plus a few scattered wheat fields.
It's all sorted with the most potent poison allowed by law. |
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Posted: 7/18/2016 10:48:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Around us is corn and soy beans plus a few scattered wheat fields. It's all sorted with the most potent poison allowed by law. Of course it is. But you need to know.. You MUST know... 1-WHAT IS BLOOMING? 2-WHAT DID THEY SPRAY ON IT? If you are going to keep bees in your current location, you need to make nice with the farmers around you...and/or find out another way.. What do they do to those crops, and when do they do it? You really only need to worry about what they spray on things that are blooming. Do you know when soybeans bloom? I don't, and I'm supposed to know this stuff. Never grew any soybeans. Just don't know. But you need to find out. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 12:12:56 AM EDT
[#17]
I'm not seeing any capped brood, open brood or eggs in any of the photos. I do see what looks like the start of a swarm cell.
Is it possible that they absconded? Without the presence of eggs or 1-3 day old larvae, they have no way of making a new queen. I am curious as to what chemicals are sprayed on the neighboring fields but at the same time I understand that corn is wind pollinated and bees generally don't bother with it. Sorry for the loss of bees! Kitty brings up a very valid point, it is a good idea to have more than one hive. The advantages to a Lang hive are that you can manipulate them much easier, you can make splits and extracting honey will prove to be much easier. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 12:19:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Thinking tomorrow I will take combs out individually for inspection.
What am I looking for? |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 12:22:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Honestly, I ran out of money which is why Iddidn't do the second hive
I may do a second Lang give next year, just to side by side compare which I prefer. Hopefully I can salvage this year  |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 2:25:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Here's my $.02 worth. I'm a brand-new beekeeper and have done a lot of reading and studying, especially in this forum.
'Scuse me if I'm wrong... but what I don't see is capped honey. Could they have absconded with all the sweets? Or does the construction of a Warre hive make the capped honey look different? And I agree, it looks very much like one uncapped queen cell there. But there are no attendents there; doesn't the new queen cell get a lot of attention from the workers? If so, the cell is not occupied yet. If I were faced with a new queen in the reduced colony, and no honey, I'd go out and buy a jar of honey, then force-feed sugar water and maybe some patties there. Are there more bees in the other parts of your hive? Or are they all represented in your pics? |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 8:35:40 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Thinking tomorrow I will take combs out individually for inspection. What am I looking for? At this point, I would be looking for a queen, 1-3 day old larvae or eggs. If you see any of those, close it up and feed them. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 9:23:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Rat_Patrol]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankSymptoms: Here's my $.02 worth. I'm a brand-new beekeeper and have done a lot of reading and studying, especially in this forum. 'Scuse me if I'm wrong... but what I don't see is capped honey. Could they have absconded with all the sweets? Or does the construction of a Warre hive make the capped honey look different? And I agree, it looks very much like one uncapped queen cell there. But there are no attendents there; doesn't the new queen cell get a lot of attention from the workers? If so, the cell is not occupied yet. If I were faced with a new queen in the reduced colony, and no honey, I'd go out and buy a jar of honey, then force-feed sugar water and maybe some patties there. Are there more bees in the other parts of your hive? Or are they all represented in your pics? ETA: There are few bees in the bottom box, but what you see is the bulk. It was about 4 in the afternoon, and I did see foraging bees everywhere I looked in the yard. Warre hives don't make the capped honey look different, but it is all natural comb. Warre hives are almost more of a style of beekeeping than a different hive (although each box is smaller). It is aimed at being a more natural, hands OFF way to keep bees. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 9:37:21 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cuttingedge: At this point, I would be looking for a queen, 1-3 day old larvae or eggs. If you see any of those, close it up and feed them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cuttingedge: Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol: Thinking tomorrow I will take combs out individually for inspection. What am I looking for? At this point, I would be looking for a queen, 1-3 day old larvae or eggs. If you see any of those, close it up and feed them. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 9:47:47 AM EDT
[#24]
So assuming I find today I am without a queen (no sight of the queen, no eggs/larvae), at this late in the year, is there any way to get a mated queen, and is it even worth it, or should I just start over next year.
Unless we can get the bee population up drastically and quickly, they won't survive the winter. I am supposed to have 2 full boxes for them to survive the winter. Right now, its just the one. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 10:13:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
And if I find none of that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By cuttingedge:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Thinking tomorrow I will take combs out individually for inspection. What am I looking for? At this point, I would be looking for a queen, 1-3 day old larvae or eggs. If you see any of those, close it up and feed them. Without a queen or the resources for them to make a new one, that colony is doomed. You could shop for a mated queen but as pictured, you do not have a lot of bees in that hive. A fresh queen is going to start laying immediately after her release. Judging by the pictures, there are not enough bees to effectively cover any brood. That is going to be a problem. Is this in the Warre hive or Langstroth? If in the Warre hive, there seems to be no effective way to place frames of brood/ bees into the hive. If in a Langstroth, you could ask around for a few frames of bees/ brood eggs and start building them up. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 6:34:16 PM EDT
[#26]
OK, just got done doing a comb by comb inspection.
I am 99% sure there is no queen, but got a couple pics of a larger bee wandering around. Working on uploading. There was a largish bee that had a black butt as well. Only 1. Why is there so many fully formed bees that die as they are trying to come out of their cells? I saw 1 bee that looked like it just came out of its cell. Tried to get a pic. Saw one with its head un-capped, moving around ready to come out. Saw NO larvae at all  . Very, very little capped brood. They were all huddled around that zit looking cell though. Plenty of honey, most not capped. Did my best with my cell phone (Its washable with soap and water. Wife would kill me if I got her good camera all sticky). Pic overload in next post. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 6:36:59 PM EDT
[#27]
new page
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Posted: 7/19/2016 6:45:28 PM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 7/19/2016 6:48:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rat_Patrol]
[#29]
5th pic is what you can see I'm not sure about. Bigger than the rest. A queen?
THOUGHTS PLEASE!!  ETA: Just getting a look at the pics now myself.. Phone focused BEAUTIFULLY on everything I was NOT trying to take a pic of |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 8:29:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol: 5th pic is what you can see I'm not sure about. Bigger than the rest. A queen? THOUGHTS PLEASE!! ETA: Just getting a look at the pics now myself.. Phone focused BEAUTIFULLY on everything I was NOT trying to take a pic of I'm going to guess - and this is a wild guess - that your hive swarmed and you're seeing who is left. I'm guessing, and hoping, that the zit is a queen cell. If it is, and she hatches fine, and mates and begins laying your hive may be OK as long as your feeding them through fall. But, they have to get their numbers up. My only hive that survived the winter barely did so and maybe had a baseball sized ball of bees in the spring. It took me a while to think of putting them in a nuc so they could gain some strength. I did that and I've been feeding them all along. They still were slow to develop so I grabbed a frame of brood from two other hives and gave it to them. Now they are finally looking good and a drawing out a nuc sized deep super. I'm tempted to try and up size them to a standard 10 frame deep and med super before winter but I just don't know if that's with trying. I do have a medium super that's full of capped honey I can give them. Right now, they aren't broken so I'll likely try to overwinter them in the nuc and then instal them into a 10 frame hive in the spring. |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 9:14:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rat_Patrol]
[#31]
Any thoughts on why so many bees seem to die trying to crawl out of the cells? Is that normal?
And what is with the black bee (pic #10). Normal to have a few of those? |
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Posted: 7/19/2016 10:53:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FrankSymptoms]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Any thoughts on why so many bees seem to die trying to crawl out of the cells? Is that normal? And what is with the black bee (pic #10). Normal to have a few of those? I had a similar question regarding my own hives; some of my bees seemed to be colored darker than others. Kitties-with-Sigs tells me that it's normal. As a queen bee mates in the wild, she is inseminated by several drones; each adds his bloodline to the table. For this reason it's possible to have colors from each drone hive represented in one hive. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 12:55:25 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
5th pic is what you can see I'm not sure about. Bigger than the rest. A queen? THOUGHTS PLEASE!!
ETA: Just getting a look at the pics now myself.. Phone focused BEAUTIFULLY on everything I was NOT trying to take a pic of
That is a drone |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 12:59:04 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Any thoughts on why so many bees seem to die trying to crawl out of the cells? Is that normal? And what is with the black bee (pic #10). Normal to have a few of those? Just another bee, nothing special. Looks like the hive has been queenless for a while. Gonna need some fresh workers and a new queen to get it going again. Looks like there might be a couple queen cups where they would have raised a new queen if they had eggs in them but I don't see any swarm cells. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 8:41:51 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rustyhawk:
Just another bee, nothing special. Looks like the hive has been queenless for a while. Gonna need some fresh workers and a new queen to get it going again. Looks like there might be a couple queen cups where they would have raised a new queen if they had eggs in them but I don't see any swarm cells. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rustyhawk:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Any thoughts on why so many bees seem to die trying to crawl out of the cells? Is that normal? And what is with the black bee (pic #10). Normal to have a few of those? Just another bee, nothing special. Looks like the hive has been queenless for a while. Gonna need some fresh workers and a new queen to get it going again. Looks like there might be a couple queen cups where they would have raised a new queen if they had eggs in them but I don't see any swarm cells. Agreed. Not much going on in there and without the presence of eggs or young (1-3 day old) larvae, it is impossible for them to make a new queen. There are very few bees in that colony so IMHO even introducing a mated queen would not be enough. Let's see what the others have to say. If it where me and it was my only hive, I would wait until next year and try again. It would be a good time to plan for next year and possibly contemplate having at least two hives. I would try Langstroth hives as they are a lot easier to manipulate and you can swap frames with resources from one to the other. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 9:49:15 AM EDT
[#36]
Sounds like I will let the remaining bees make as much honey as they want and then harvest everything and try again next year
.Think I will do a Langstroth hive as well next year. Purely for the commonality with the general beekeeping community. That will let me do a side by side of the two styles and see what I prefer long term. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 9:50:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Still the question: Why so many fully formed bees that died trying to get out of the cell?
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Posted: 7/20/2016 10:19:37 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Sounds like I will let the remaining bees make as much honey as they want and then harvest everything and try again next year .
Think I will do a Langstroth hive as well next year. Purely for the commonality with the general beekeeping community. That will let me do a side by side of the two styles and see what I prefer long term. THAT is the reason my local master beek and his associates insist upon having standardized dimensions for the top bar hives! He lifted four bars from his mini-top bar hive and gave them to me and they fit perfectly! (His profession, however, requires Lang hives; he has over 200 and he's all over the state.) (He's a retired air traffic controller.) |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 11:29:02 AM EDT
[#39]
So that zit looking cell that may or may not be a queen: How long does a should I wait before I check to see if anything has came out? I can take the entire top box and tip it on its side, so I don't have to disturb the bees hardly at all to check on it quickly.
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Posted: 7/20/2016 11:59:30 AM EDT
[#40]
I think the black bee is a different species. The antennae seem longer and the abdomen appears more bulbous than the others in your photos. I'm guessing you caught it robbing.
I can't comment on the dead half out of cells. Maybe my hives generate those two but the workers clean them up before I see them? With your hive hurting the way it is maybe carrying out the dead is not a high priority? I'm a beginner so don't give my guesses much weight. This is my third season with bees and I've only had one honey harvest. I may end up redistributing the frames before winter instead of harvesting this year. Aside from this thread I get my info from the Beekeeping for Dummies book and YouTube. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 1:47:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kitties-with-Sigs]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
So that zit looking cell that may or may not be a queen: How long does a should I wait before I check to see if anything has came out? I can take the entire top box and tip it on its side, so I don't have to disturb the bees hardly at all to check on it quickly. You will probably know within a couple of weeks. I've forgotten the exact timing on queen emergence. CuttingEdge will know this like the back of his hand. If they capped her before the swarm though, it is possible you could get a new queen. THAT SAID....if the old queen's genetics are what encouraged her to swarm, and if it wasn't for some REASON other than her..."Dude, I'm so outa here" tendencies, then that new queen may have those tendencies also. What worries me more is that if the hive swarmed, they should have left behind more brood than that. Rat Patrol, I don't see the bees dead coming out. I looked, but I'm apparently missing them. I went back again. I do see them. I'm guessing you just don't have enough house bees to have gotten to them yet. Hard to say because the numbers aren't really high enough to establish a pattern that something is wrong. BUT... I want to ask Cutting Edge and Dux and the others what they think about this idea... What if you bought a nuc from somebody--(don't know if you want to put money into it at this point)--and used newspaper to combine the hives using your empty bottom box? is it worth trying that at this point? I never had a dime's worth of luck combining hives, but other people do great with it. About that potential queen cell... The thing I'm concerned about is that once that queen emerges (if it is a queen cell, and I think it is) she's got to get mated. The number of things that can happen to a virgin queen while she's out there are astronomical. She could get injured and they would then reject her. She could get eaten by a bird. You'll never know what happened, but POOF, you are queenless for sure at that point. Still, it's worth a try--if that's a queen, and she mates successfully, I would not be able to abandon them. I'd have to try to help them out even if I thought it was a lost cause. but that's just me. (This means throwing money at something that has a high likelihood of failure. Some people will do that. Some won't. Depends on the person and the situation.) |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 1:53:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Rat Patrol...
When you do your Lang hive next year, consider beekeeping in all Medium boxes. I have preached and preached this, and cant' get anybody to take me up on it. There is So. Much. Written. about using all mediums. Easier on your back. Many studies have shown that it is just as good for a brood chamber and maybe even better. AND you buy ONLY one size box. One size frames. It's all interchangeable. That is a money saver, because you don't have the wrong size box sitting around when you need another size box. If I had it to do over, I would keep bees in all mediums. One university bee specialist (Tom...something....from Ky State U) tried to get me to do this when I started. I was scared to think outside the box (no pun intended) of what my mentor was doing. Wish I'd taken his advice. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 2:25:01 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Rat Patrol... When you do your Lang hive next year, consider beekeeping in all Medium boxes. I have preached and preached this, and cant' get anybody to take me up on it. There is So. Much. Written. about using all mediums. Easier on your back. Many studies have shown that it is just as good for a brood chamber and maybe even better. AND you buy ONLY one size box. One size frames. It's all interchangeable. That is a money saver, because you don't have the wrong size box sitting around when you need another size box. If I had it to do over, I would keep bees in all mediums. One university bee specialist (Tom...something....from Ky State U) tried to get me to do this when I started. I was scared to think outside the box (no pun intended) of what my mentor was doing. Wish I'd taken his advice. Are Lang hives as easy to build DIY as Warre hives? That was one of the reasons I got the Warre. Simple simple to build. I bought one just to see it completed. I mean Boy Scout craft project simple.. Or I will just go to Fleet Farm and pick some up (assuming they have medium boxes). |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 3:14:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cuttingedge]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
You will probably know within a couple of weeks. I've forgotten the exact timing on queen emergence. CuttingEdge will know this like the back of his hand. If they capped her before the swarm though, it is possible you could get a new queen. THAT SAID....if the old queen's genetics are what encouraged her to swarm, and if it wasn't for some REASON other than her..."Dude, I'm so outa here" tendencies, then that new queen may have those tendencies also. What worries me more is that if the hive swarmed, they should have left behind more brood than that. Rat Patrol, I don't see the bees dead coming out. I looked, but I'm apparently missing them. I went back again. I do see them. I'm guessing you just don't have enough house bees to have gotten to them yet. Hard to say because the numbers aren't really high enough to establish a pattern that something is wrong. BUT... I want to ask Cutting Edge and Dux and the others what they think about this idea... What if you bought a nuc from somebody--(don't know if you want to put money into it at this point)--and used newspaper to combine the hives using your empty bottom box? is it worth trying that at this point? I never had a dime's worth of luck combining hives, but other people do great with it. About that potential queen cell... The thing I'm concerned about is that once that queen emerges (if it is a queen cell, and I think it is) she's got to get mated. The number of things that can happen to a virgin queen while she's out there are astronomical. She could get injured and they would then reject her. She could get eaten by a bird. You'll never know what happened, but POOF, you are queenless for sure at that point. Still, it's worth a try--if that's a queen, and she mates successfully, I would not be able to abandon them. I'd have to try to help them out even if I thought it was a lost cause. but that's just me. (This means throwing money at something that has a high likelihood of failure. Some people will do that. Some won't. Depends on the person and the situation.) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
So that zit looking cell that may or may not be a queen: How long does a should I wait before I check to see if anything has came out? I can take the entire top box and tip it on its side, so I don't have to disturb the bees hardly at all to check on it quickly. You will probably know within a couple of weeks. I've forgotten the exact timing on queen emergence. CuttingEdge will know this like the back of his hand. If they capped her before the swarm though, it is possible you could get a new queen. THAT SAID....if the old queen's genetics are what encouraged her to swarm, and if it wasn't for some REASON other than her..."Dude, I'm so outa here" tendencies, then that new queen may have those tendencies also. What worries me more is that if the hive swarmed, they should have left behind more brood than that. Rat Patrol, I don't see the bees dead coming out. I looked, but I'm apparently missing them. I went back again. I do see them. I'm guessing you just don't have enough house bees to have gotten to them yet. Hard to say because the numbers aren't really high enough to establish a pattern that something is wrong. BUT... I want to ask Cutting Edge and Dux and the others what they think about this idea... What if you bought a nuc from somebody--(don't know if you want to put money into it at this point)--and used newspaper to combine the hives using your empty bottom box? is it worth trying that at this point? I never had a dime's worth of luck combining hives, but other people do great with it. About that potential queen cell... The thing I'm concerned about is that once that queen emerges (if it is a queen cell, and I think it is) she's got to get mated. The number of things that can happen to a virgin queen while she's out there are astronomical. She could get injured and they would then reject her. She could get eaten by a bird. You'll never know what happened, but POOF, you are queenless for sure at that point. Still, it's worth a try--if that's a queen, and she mates successfully, I would not be able to abandon them. I'd have to try to help them out even if I thought it was a lost cause. but that's just me. (This means throwing money at something that has a high likelihood of failure. Some people will do that. Some won't. Depends on the person and the situation.) Queens emerge in approximately 16 days, they are mated by 30 days and her first brood would hatch 21 days after she lays those eggs. As far as adding/ combining a Nuc with this hive, it could be done but I would think that finding one now is going to prove to be a difficult task this time of year in MN. Maybe check Craigslist or ask someone at your local bee club. As I stated before, I personally would not invest the time or money only because I don't think that they would be capable of building up to a size that would over winter in your area. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 3:51:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cuttingedge: Queens emerge in approximately 16 days, they are mated by 30 days and her first brood would hatch 21 days after she lays those eggs. As far as adding/ combining a Nuc with this hive, it could be done but I would think that finding one now is going to prove to be a difficult task this time of year in MN. Maybe check Craigslist or ask someone at your local bee club. As I stated before, I personally would not invest the time or money only because I don't think that they would be capable of building up to a size that would over winter in your area. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cuttingedge: Originally Posted By Kitties-with-Sigs: Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol: So that zit looking cell that may or may not be a queen: How long does a should I wait before I check to see if anything has came out? I can take the entire top box and tip it on its side, so I don't have to disturb the bees hardly at all to check on it quickly. You will probably know within a couple of weeks. I've forgotten the exact timing on queen emergence. CuttingEdge will know this like the back of his hand. If they capped her before the swarm though, it is possible you could get a new queen. THAT SAID....if the old queen's genetics are what encouraged her to swarm, and if it wasn't for some REASON other than her..."Dude, I'm so outa here" tendencies, then that new queen may have those tendencies also. What worries me more is that if the hive swarmed, they should have left behind more brood than that. Rat Patrol, I don't see the bees dead coming out. I looked, but I'm apparently missing them. I went back again. I do see them. I'm guessing you just don't have enough house bees to have gotten to them yet. Hard to say because the numbers aren't really high enough to establish a pattern that something is wrong. BUT... I want to ask Cutting Edge and Dux and the others what they think about this idea... What if you bought a nuc from somebody--(don't know if you want to put money into it at this point)--and used newspaper to combine the hives using your empty bottom box? is it worth trying that at this point? I never had a dime's worth of luck combining hives, but other people do great with it. About that potential queen cell... The thing I'm concerned about is that once that queen emerges (if it is a queen cell, and I think it is) she's got to get mated. The number of things that can happen to a virgin queen while she's out there are astronomical. She could get injured and they would then reject her. She could get eaten by a bird. You'll never know what happened, but POOF, you are queenless for sure at that point. Still, it's worth a try--if that's a queen, and she mates successfully, I would not be able to abandon them. I'd have to try to help them out even if I thought it was a lost cause. but that's just me. (This means throwing money at something that has a high likelihood of failure. Some people will do that. Some won't. Depends on the person and the situation.) Queens emerge in approximately 16 days, they are mated by 30 days and her first brood would hatch 21 days after she lays those eggs. As far as adding/ combining a Nuc with this hive, it could be done but I would think that finding one now is going to prove to be a difficult task this time of year in MN. Maybe check Craigslist or ask someone at your local bee club. As I stated before, I personally would not invest the time or money only because I don't think that they would be capable of building up to a size that would over winter in your area. We will see if that turns out to be a queen, she mates properly, and if that all defies the odds, I'll feed the shit out of them and hopefully they survive the winter. Won't put money on them though |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 5:08:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cuttingedge]
[#46]
If you think that they may have a Queen, especially one that has just emerged, I would start feeding now and go in as little as possible for the next couple of weeks.
The more that you go in, the more likely the chance that they could turn on her or you could roll her. If after a thorough inspection in a few weeks, you see either a queen or larvae/ eggs or capped brood, keep feeding them and hope for the best. If you don't see any signs of a queen in a few weeks, there is really not much you can do. If you by chance see a ton of Drone Brood, that would mean that you have a laying worker hive.
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Posted: 7/20/2016 5:27:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cuttingedge: If you think that they may have a Queen, especially one that has just emerged, I would start feeding now and go in as little as possible for the next couple of weeks. The more that you go in, the more likely the chance that they could turn on her or you could roll her. If after a thorough inspection in a few weeks, you see either a queen or larvae/ eggs or capped brood, keep feeding them and hope for the best. If you don't see any signs of a queen in a few weeks, there is really not much you can do. If you by chance see a ton of Drone Brood, that would mean that you have a laying worker hive.What exactly is a "laying worker hive". It may be that I am tired, but it isn't clicking right now. |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 6:24:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Queens emerge in approximately 16 days, they are mated by 30 days and her first brood would hatch 21 days after she lays those eggs. This puts you well into September. Will this result in a sustainable hive? I think I raised a few eyebrows when I got my first hive started in June. What's the season like in MN? |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 6:25:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rat_Patrol]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankSymptoms: Queens emerge in approximately 16 days, they are mated by 30 days and her first brood would hatch 21 days after she lays those eggs. This puts you well into September. Will this result in a sustainable hive? I think I raised a few eyebrows when I got my first hive started in June. What's the season like in MN? Winters/fall have been un-predicable last few years. Something weather-wise is changing. ETA: Last year, "winter" didn't even start until December. I had weeds growing in the garden in November (should have a foot of snow). I was perplexed, because I didn't know if I should hook up the cultivator to the 316 or not in November |
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Posted: 7/20/2016 6:26:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FrankSymptoms]
[#50]
nm think I got my signals mixed up.
Quote HistoryIf you think that they may have a Queen, especially one that has just emerged, I would start feeding now and go in as little as possible for the next couple of weeks.
The more that you go in, the more likely the chance that they could turn on her or you could roll her. If after a thorough inspection in a few weeks, you see either a queen or larvae/ eggs or capped brood, keep feeding them and hope for the best. If you don't see any signs of a queen in a few weeks, there is really not much you can do. If you by chance see a ton of Drone Brood, that would mean that you have a laying worker hive. If you only have drone brood, that means she's a virgin queen, doesn't it? |
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