I’m writing this in response to an open letter published by the Michigan Department of Natural Resources (DNR), penned by By CHAD STEWART, Deer, elk and moose management specialist Michigan Department of Natural Resources (DNR).  

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/MIDNR/bulletins/3716e4f

My first guttural response was: why am I hearing about this from a local radio station’s quick news click bait report (that my phone located)?   I’m signed up for DNR emails, as I’m an avid hunter, who cares deeply about protecting and preserving our natural resources.  Why wouldn’t I hear this from the DNR itself?  I guess I didn’t click the right selections when I signed up?  When I tried to locate the DNR source article to read in depth (over just accepting my guttural response) and formulate a proper position, I was met with a tough time finding the original article.   I succeeded, but I’d consider the effort to be more than most would be able to achieve.

Why is this so complicated?  We all know it's because the MI DNR is involved.

Then I tried to find the method provided to engage the author or MI DNR with feedback… or with anything.  I couldn’t find it.  I don’t think they want feedback, or to be held accountable for anything.   They definitely aren’t making it easy nor soliciting it, So I’m posting this here.

So yet again, I’m met with disappointment in my Michigan DNR (MI DNR).   I’ve come accustomed to its rather ineffective, bureaucratic methods.   MI DNR policies consistently treat hunters as folks who’d be poachers if it wasn’t for the DNR’s benevolent guidance,  complicated rules, licenses, & fees.   The DNR considers it a privilege for us plebes to pay their seemingly unending fees to have the honor to navigate their complex bureaucratic licensing schemes…   Even to hunt & manage one’s own land.

I’ve come to this position as I’ve grown up hunting Michigan as a teen (started in the 80’s), then moved away and hunted multiple other states.   Even though I moved back home to Michigan years ago, I still make annual hunting trips to other states.   Every other state I’ve hunted seems to do a better job than the MI DNR.   And the subject article, while well intentioned, seems to resonate MI DNR’s ineffective self righteous bureaucrat arrogance clearly.

The article’s main argument is: hunters need to take more does.   I wholeheartedly agree.   The issue here is that the Michigan DNR makes the rules (and they are pretty complicated), changes them capriciously, and then poorly communicates & implements them.  All too  often with draconian effects.    

A recent change that comes to mind is the adoption of mandatory check in of all deer harvests.   I’m for deer harvest reporting, and have done it for years in other states.   In those other states, you can do it by calling in and using a touch tone phone, downloading and using a streamlined app, or going to any computer.   If you make an attempt in the field, that is good enough in most states:   If the system fails, you are clearly ok, until you can get to an area with service/better internet, etc.    But I don’t see that provision here in Michigan.   It seems MI DNR is ignoring that their app doesn’t work well, and the process that is owned by them is far from streamlined.  

There should still be a ‘grace period’ while MI DNR works it out.   MI DNR needs to be patient and give time to help hunters catch up to having to directly report kills… but all I’ve heard from the DNR and their news reporting is threats of prosecution.  You think possibly, that deer harvests are under reported because of the DNR’s failure to do well here?

Michigan just recently adopted universal doe tags (antlerless tags in reality).  That is a step in the right direction.  Chad Steward discusses this.  But even better:  In other states when I bought my deer license it came with 6 blanks for me to record deer kills.   (it also had spots for a couple of bear and turkey too when I bought those licenses in a bundle)  That is all that was required:  one license got me up to 6 deer in Virginia.   No additional fees.   No more pieces of paper to carry and manage.   No waiting for tags to arrive in the mail.   No having to drive to town to get another tag and pay more $.   If a DNR officer wanted to check my kill, he asked for the report number I wrote on the license and verified it to the animal.  No tag required, yet 100% accountability.    If I gifted the deer to someone, or took it to a butcher, that is the only time I had to tag the animal by writing  the number given when I registered the kill on a piece of paper and zip tying it on.

If you want us to kill more does, quit nickel and diming us to death and covering us up with bureaucratic processes that line the DNR’s coffers.   There are more efficient effective ways to get your $ and get out of the way.   If the legal limit is 10 deer per hunter, then issue the same $40 license but with 10 spots to record harvests, not individual kill tags.  Make one blank spot a restricted 4+ spot, add a 1+ spot, then 8 does and get out of the way!  You keep the same areas and charts/terms in the digest.    Take some time and patience to implement the change!  

Also, There is not a good reason why I couldn’t buy all my hunting licenses (spring turkey, fall turkey, waterfowl, deer, etc) in one bundle in March… and only have to carry one piece of paper… other than the DNR seems to love all its drawings and fee schemes.   Don’t believe me?  Other states do it just fine!

QUIT CHARGING LAND OWNERS LICENSE FEES:  They pay the taxes for the land and should be able to hunt it without getting nickel and dimed to death too.  In other states I’ve hunted, landowners are not required to purchase tags & can shoot deer on their land.   Yes, they must follow the rules & must report the harvests.   Land owners just  use their property tax ID number as their license # when reporting.    Seems simple enough.  

Also  I hunt a few farms in the thumb.   Farmers all beg me to shoot does out of season, but they are completely confused about how to get crop damage tags from the DNR.  MAKE IT EASIER FOR FARMERS TO GET CROP DAMAGE PERMITS so that we can harvest more does and protect their prosperity!  Maybe a simple app on their phone, not a trip to a remote DNR office!

Chad Stewart argues we need to kill does earlier:  Early doe harvests will make for better hunts in the long run.   Great! Give us more early antlerless opportunities beyond a single Saturday and Sunday in September.   You could add a Friday to the hunt… and even a Monday afterwards, or make it an entire week or two… of just antlerless hunting.   Some folks work week ends!  Seems super simple and certainly more productive than writing an article blaming hunters for the MI DNR’s lack of accountability.

Most other states have a more logical flow to their general deer seasons.   First bow opens,  then muzzleloader, then gun deer.    That’s not how it is in Michigan though.   How many more does would be shot earlier in the season if we had a new muzzleloader season November 1st to the 14th?   You could make it doe only if you needed to, but I’d prefer it be open to all deer.  

Oh wait, that might get cross with the stupid rule that you cannot have a centerfire rifle in the woods for that period of time…  or would a muzzleloader be allowed?   Huh, more regulatory confusion due to a stupid rule.  The purpose of the no “center fire rifle rule in early November” is rather draconian and treats us all as if we are poachers who need the DNR’s supervision to keep us from poaching deer.  Seems the DNR feels if we were allowed centerfire guns in the woods for those couple of weeks we’d succumb to temptation.   Or the MI DNR just prioritizes their ease of prosecution over harvesting more deer.   Thus MI DNR forces everyone to get cross with their crazy rules.   Hunters don’t like this.   The majority either get frustrated and blatantly do what they want… or they just get frustrated and sit on their couch.   Few comply with idiotic draconian rules.  Either way, the DNR is to blame and in full control of this.   You must rid us of these rules and keep stuff simple.  Make the priority: effective natural resource management through hunting.  Anything else is defeatist.

Mr. Steward also asserted:  “… the typical Michigan hunting philosophy to date is to hold off on taking antlerless deer until later in the season. “    Where in the world did he get this ‘factoid’?  I put meat in the freezer first, then I look for a trophy rack.   But if a nice buck comes along, and it’s in season, I take it.   This is the prevailing attitude with most of my friends.   I would argue they’d fill more doe tags if they didn’t have to go through the trouble of getting them and paying $20 each.

More confusion has arisen from another recent poorly implemented change:  the December muzzleloader season for the southern areas was changed to allow centerfire rifles, and is still called muzzleloader season…  that has confused many folk here… and every year they wonder if using centerfire guns during muzzleloader is permanent or if it’s changed.   Why not just continue the regular deer season into January and make the muzzleloader season 1 November to 14 November?  If you needed to, you could call it bonus antlerless season.. Which it pretty much is, and is probably why you feel most hunters prioritize shooting bucks first… as you restrict them to only being able to shoot a buck for a short period, then prolong the doe only hunts into the cold bitter Michigan winter.   Maybe you are reaping what you sow?

I mentioned that Michigan changed a lot of rules without promulgating these changes well.   Here’s a good example:  the first year that it was legal to hunt deer in the ‘shotgun only’ zone with a straight wall cartridge, it wasn’t in the Digest yet.   I can’t tell you how many guys told me I was wrong that season as I carried my AR-15 with a 450BM upper around.   Then the following year the straight wall cartridge rules were in the Digest, but not soon enough for most folks to get rifles.    So from the law passing to it being effectively in the field it took over 3 seasons.   That is no one’s fault but the MI DNR’s failure to promulgate well.

Also, I still have to explain to other hunters that there aren’t “Buck” tags anymore, and that they can shoot a doe with their restricted tag (down here in the thumb).   I guess the radio station news click bait didn’t cover that one.   Mr. Stewart notes this change happened in 2020.   I agree that it was a good change… but remember that 3 years before it gets recognized is only due to the DNR’s way of doing business!

Oh, and we can’t call rule books, ‘rule books’ here in Michigan, 'cause the "law" is the rule book, and we just have a “Digest” of the laws…  which may or may not be complete.   Seems this is so Mr. Green Jeans can jam up a hunter for ignorance of the law despite reading and following the Digest.

Personally I had this one happen to me:  I always brought an extra, unloaded, cased shotgun with me whenever I went way off shore pursuing ducks in other states.  But here in Michigan that is illegal, but was not listed in the digest as illegal.  So if Mr. Green Jeans doesn’t like it, he can write it, and you will pay for it… even though you had to be a lawyer to find and read the law to know that.  Besides it being wise to bring a backup gun way out there… in most other states I could have the backup gun out and loaded (and frequently I did to kill cripples)!   Why such crazy complicated rules?   If they are necessary why omit them from the Digest? Clean the house, and make the rule book the rule book!

Also had an old timer who I duck and goose hunt with get jammed up by Mr. Green Jeans over his hand loaded bismuth shells.   He adds a little ashes from his best friend and his old dog to each shot column as a shot buffer.   These are honorarium shells.  He always hands them out and we shoot them at the first duck/goose of the season.    He had to cut one open to prove to the DNR agent that it was bismuth, not lead when he was duck hunting.  It wasn’t a pleasant interaction.   Yes the agent left without writing a citation, but made out like he didn’t believe it was bismuth, and was doing a favor.   I guess he never learned that bismuth is not magnetic, and heavy just like lead.   Reloaders aren’t automatically poachers even if the magnet doesn’t stick.  The DNR controls its image through stuff like this!

I also hear hunter numbers are down… hmm  I wonder why?  Probably has zero to do with how you are treating the hunter community.    Zero to do with over complex and ever changing regulations.   And zero to do with political idiots in Lansing purposely making it hard on hunters because they disdain hunting and or other 2A rights.   Nothing to do with an aging populace, and the trend of farmers rejecting hunting permissions due to legal liability, mega farms buying up more and more parcels, or the increase of leasing hunting access for big $.  The individual hunter is pretty much powerless here and needs the DNR to wise up and step in.  How about putting a hunting permission form and liability wavier in the rule book to help folks out with getting permission from land owners?

I had an invasive species that is known to kill other waterfowl and destroy ecosystems, start nesting in an area by my house (but not my land).  Typically invasive species are regulated minimally and harvest is encouraged 365 days a year.  However, I wasn’t allowed to harvest  due to bureaucracy (even though I could get permission to hunt there).  And even if I cut through the bureaucracy, I wouldn’t be allowed to eat the animal after harvesting it (and it is not because of any food safety concerns)!   But any DNR agent would have the ability to walk up and shoot it on the spot.  Don’t believe me?  Read Michigan DNR’s mute swan policy.  It is downright duplicitous.  

https://www.michigan.gov/invasives/id-report/birds/mute-swan

I have a biologist friend in the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service that I related the MI DNR mute swan policy to.   He just shook his head in disbelief and said he killed every mute swan he’s ever encountered in the wild, on the spot, no matter what the political fallout was.   He’s confident he acted as a good steward of our ecology.   Being a Midwest/Western biologist: He suspects most every mute swan he’s encountered has originated from Michigan.


Mute swan distribution range above (https://www.sdakotabirds.com/species/mute_swan_info.htm)

A winter or two back, just after the season closed,  I had a doe wandering around.   When it got icy she was fumbling all around.   Then I thought of chronic wasting disease (CWD).  Her behavior matched the description, so I contacted the DNR… repeatedly, and got nowhere.   It seems you have zero ability to let land owners (like myself), remove a suspect animal from the heard and get it tested.  I wonder how leaving her in the herd affected it.  The DNR didn’t seem to care.  Enlist and empower land owners to help manage CWD


Stuff like this is why the DNR has the reputation it has.   This sort of approach to dealing with hunters and landowners earns the DNR its well deserved disdain.   You owe it to your hunters to do better.  Otherwise no one will listen to your well intentioned article about needing a larger doe harvest.  It won’t get fixed until the DNR “owns it” and makes a real effort to change.

All that said.   My beloved Scoutmaster when I was a kid was a top dog in our local DNR.   His sort of common sense seems to be lacking at the rule making and implementation levels.  Some DNR officers I’ve met are good fellas, but most of the DNR’s policy implementations are either compromised, bad for hunters,  bad for game animals, or bad for public relations.  You need to own that, and fix it before you start demanding we kill more does in accordance to your crazy rules and fee structure.

If you want real change: Get your own house in order!  If the MI DNR wants hunters to kill more does (even with less hunters): change the rules, fees, and seasons!  

In the military we always taught:  KISS      Keep It Simple Stupid

Any or all of my suggestions above (in bold for those who have short attention spans) would be beneficial to that end.

Yours,


Tom
Avid Hunter, Michigander, and Veteran

Too long, read a bit but quit reading...while it may be valid, it was just too long of a rant.

OK... for those with short attention spans:

BLUF:  (Bottom Line Up Front)    Michigan DNR could do some simple fixes and increase the deer harvest, but they prioritize sucking $ from hunters with super complicated systems built to aid the DNR in prosecuting hunters as poachers.... and then blame hunters for low harvest numbers.

Do you wanna get really angry?

How come Michigan doesn't have a mourning dove season?

And how about sand hill cranes?

MUCC used to be An advocate for hunters..  Now they're supporting a lead ammunition ban..

Despite scant scientific studies.

Sigh.

Tag for later.
I only skimmed it but I'm on board with your early ML Doe season.
But I think the DNR would use the Nov 11-14 "quiet" period to block it.

MI could really use a prominent critic with notoriety to call attention to DNR. We somehow find ourselves with the only critics being anon internet posters.

Guys like Mike Avery and editorial staff of the outdoors rags are terrible critics. They dare not burn a bridge with harsh criticism so to maintain their cozy relationships with DNR brass.

The fuckhead who runs michigan-sportsmen forum has basically outlawed politics discussion there. What a POS.

I'm still dreading having to look up current status of muzzleloader season in SE MI for this year. The digest will explain it, in 3 paragraphs, with 57 footnotes.

I didn't read all of it but you're correct that as a land owner all I have to do it do an online deer tag and can hunt other animals in season without a permit.
My Dad farmed in IN and had the extra doe tags because of deer damage to crops.
IN has two weeks of gun but OH only has one, should be more.
5 deers have ran into the side of my cars, 3 since 2015.

I had 18 deer eating my newly planted grass last weekend.  3 were bucks . . . might've been a few button buck fawns as well.  The hungry that a business I associate with will be eating well given how many doe I plan to shoot this year.

Shot a huge 8pt Nov 15...FU DNR.

Yup, MI DNR sucks.

DNR blows.  
To be fair, most of the hunters here are assholes.

Had a guy intentionally shoot at me while duck hunting.  It hurt.   Rained steel on me.
Had a guy steel a deer from someone in our group on nov15.  He shot it square in the chest.  They insisted it was theirs.  They took his deer.  
This year I had a guy drive right up to me and give me the bird because I was hunting (on public land) in his spot.  I had a treestand setup over a week before this encounter.

Attached File


The late antlerless season isn’t over, but this why my general area has such a lopsided buck to doe ratio.  The 1 and 2 year old bucks hardly have a chance.  

We try to take 8+ does a year.  Of course, every goober near here says they are all about letting the smaller bucks walk, but then you ask about that 80lb  micro spike hanging and, well, “we needed something for the freezer.”  So shoot a 150lb doe?  

Ah well.

I hunted in SW MI for many years. Every local I spoke with was only interested in bucks.

Had a family member who would let "smaller" 8 points walk right by, then complain he didn't kill anything at the end of the season.

Only one change needs to be done.

1. You must HARVEST a doe before you can purchase a buck [antlered] license.

2. No exceptions.

Make them 1/2 the price and open it up earlier to doe ONLY.

Been saying that for literally 20 years.

And the does, due to them herding up so much more, are the spreaders of infectious diseases far more then bucks.

Great summary.

I quit reading about halfway through. I got the gist.


I truly believe it's time for you to donate you passion and knowledge to the proper represenative in your state.

I really think you would be surprised by the reception.

You get it.  Teach the rulemakers, never lose your passion. Good luck

I was unaware the swans nesting on our lake in SW Michigan are an invasive species.

So what's the deal. Should I eliminate them? How do they taste?

Damn I haven't dealt with the DNR for years. I'm sorry you gents have to deal with that. I used to hunt Manistee and it was bad back then but now seems worse. The wife wanted to buy a house in Onekama and I was like no fucking way.

The over populated deer counties here in VA have an early doe season and "Earn A Buck" programs.  However you can shoot your first buck without shooting a doe, but you then have to shoot a doe to earn your second buck.  Many of us go out in the early doe season to shoot a doe and get it out of the way.  Our early doe gun season opened on September 2nd this year.  

The really over populated counties have no daily limit on the number of deer you can kill, You get 6 tags, 3 buck and 3 doe with your base license and can buy 6 bonus doe tags for $15.

Same problem I have with every single neighboring landowner.  " I only shoot mature bucks!"  then you get a picture of a 6 point that still has mommas milk dripping off it's chin.

Had 17 doe in my front yard and 8 in my back yard when I got home from work last night.  I think I must be the only hunter in a square mile that'll shoot any doe.

I did the same thing this year.  Passed 6 or 7 bucks on opening morning alone.  Only one fit my minimum standard for age/antler score and he was out of range.

I will shoot doe's though instead, though.

Add to that a one buck tag only rule and I'd be game.  Bonus points for moving the opener of firearm season out of the peak rut.

I use to hunt with my family that lives in the Bel Aire area of Michigan every year and each year we saw less and less hunters. What we saw more of were people not allowing hunting on their lands as more non native Michigan people moved in.

It's the same here in Northern Indiana.

Michigan DNR Deer Mgt. Initiative

Well, here you all go.  Get involved.  

What I'd like to see in the middle lower peninsula area is:

1 buck per year
lower cost doe tags
all the "special" seasons are antler less (the "youth" hunt is abused)
3 points on one side APR's
longer winter and early antler less seasons