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Posted: 11/17/2011 12:42:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Anyone use MK262 MOD1?
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Posted: 11/18/2011 7:15:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU: It's a couple bucks cheaper @ ammotogoOriginally Posted By DrDeath: What company!? Silver State Armory http://www.ssarmory.com/556ammunition-70gr-leadfree.aspx I almost bought some but for this hunt and the fact that deer out here are only in the 100 lb range I went with 64gr Power Points. Left me more money to buy other items I needed. |
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Posted: 11/19/2011 6:52:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Barnes Vortex 55gr TSX
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OK, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2011 4:46:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Used my Bushy ORC 16"barrel this morning. Shooting Black Hills 69gr. Match hollowpoints. I don't recomend them for deer hunting though. 150 yd heart shot through & through & she still ran about 200 yds before she relized she was even hit. I thought I had missed her for sure but followed her till she dropped with my bino's. When field dressing her it didn't break the diaphram at all and as another said previously everything looked like it went through a blender. I'm going to try to find some winchester 64Gr or the 62gr Barnes since we have a min of 55 gr here in Oklahoma. Good hunting & great info.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2011 1:35:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By Toyforever:
Used my Bushy ORC 16"barrel this morning. Shooting Black Hills 69gr. Match hollowpoints. I don't recomend them for deer hunting though. 150 yd heart shot through & through & she still ran about 200 yds before she relized she was even hit. I thought I had missed her for sure but followed her till she dropped with my bino's. When field dressing her it didn't break the diaphram at all and as another said previously everything looked like it went through a blender. I'm going to try to find some winchester 64Gr or the 62gr Barnes since we have a min of 55 gr here in Oklahoma. Good hunting & great info. I know midway has 55gr barnes tsx in the federal vital-shok ammo. Wasn't sure how well they would work but I got a yearling through and through that did some good damage and only ran about 40 yards, LOTS of blood to follow, was a heart shot. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 12/2/2011 1:02:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Glad to see those Remington rounds work, because I took my M&P 15 out this year for the first time with no luck. I had a doe at 15yds, quartering to me when I took the shot. No blood and never found the deer. I will give it another try again next year.
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/14/2011 5:09:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Phantom2]
[#7]
How is the Brown Bear russian made .223 62 gr.HP round?Anyone tried it?
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NY, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2011 6:38:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Axe]
[#8]
My first deer with the .223 was sometime in the 70's. The gun was a Ruger mini 14 and the load a pmc 55gr. fmj––standard military ball. The shot was close, maybe 30 yards or so and the bullet penetrated both shoulders. Deer walked away like it wasnt hit and went maybe 20 yards or so and was dead. There was a great blood trail though and when I got there she still had blood bubbling from her mouth and a great exit wound. Still, the way she walked away made me think that this wasnt the caliber for deer.
Fast forward to last Sunday. I have a little piece of land I hunt and as of late theres more and more people moving in all around. So I decided I would give it a try once again instead of using my 7mm mag or .308 for safety reasons. I loaded up some Barnes 62 gr. 3x bullets over some WW748 with a mag primer. They shot well out of my 20 inch Bushy so out I went. I was still very skeptical of the round for deer and also because I can get shots out to 250 yards. Just before dark on the last day of the season out comes this 8 pointer. He stood broadside at about 220 yards. I aimed and said to myself "o shit, now or never". At the shot, the deer went up on his hind legs, then came down and started to run. I could tell that he was seriously hit, no doubt. I went down to where he was standing and there was no blood. I went in the direction he went into the pines and after a few yards found a good splatter of blood on the goldenrods. I stood there and looked around and there he was, dead. He rand a total of about 30 yards. The bullet caught him in the base of the neck below the spine and penetrated completely leaving a 3/4 inch exit wound. Skinning displayed lots o trauma. The moral of this story is I am astounded by this round and, it's going to be my deer hnting round from now on. I have been hunting for almost 50 years and this rocked me. I always knew the Barnes was a real good bullet but figured it for maybe 100 yards or so, not 220. Where have i been??? LOL I have pics and if I get unlazy and resize them I will post them up. |
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Posted: 12/17/2011 9:43:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Here is the text of an email my buddy sent out about using a 22-250:
I have never been a believer in small bullets (under about 125g) on deer, but I recently had the opportunity to educate myself a little. It was nagging me that my 22-250 was my only virgin bolt rifle, so I took it to WV for doe season. Also, my first experience with polymer tipped bullets; not sure what effect that has vs. LSP, also the highest velocity I have taken deer with. 1st deer (about 90 lb BB) - Hornady A Max 55g (I think, maybe 60) at 3683 fps; hard, hard quartering away at 80 yards. This is the entrance wound pic attached. I think it is so big because of the glancing angle, it broke 5 ribs, maybe because of the short range/small deer too. The deer ran about 120 yards, no blood trial until I was in sight of the deer. Internal damage was extreme; I didn't cut any meat from the entrance side front quarter, bullet didn't exit and I couldn't find it, safe to say it was really broken up. 2nd deer (about 140 lb doe) - Sierra MatchKing 55g at 3708 fps, broadside at 175 yards. "Normal" looking entrance wound (index finger size hole), the deer ran about 150 yards, no blood trial until I was in sight of the deer. Internal damage was extreme; I didn't cut any meat from the entrance side front quarter of this one either, bullet didn't exit and I couldn't find it. I was really, really surprised at the lack of a blood trail, or any good sign of a hit (hair even) at the spot the deer had been standing, and both were well placed shots. So little, I ended up finding both deer the following morning, and I saw both before I was able to find any significant blood trail. Backtracking after I found the deer, it amazed me that these bullets hit that hard, did that much damage, (lungs were jelly), and didn't cause much bleeding or trail. A lot of bowhunters are convinced a low exit wound is critical to finding animals that go out of sight, I believe there's something to that. Once the lungs were removed, there wasn't any internal trauma on the off side, so I believe the bullets didn't make it very far inside either. Both deer went farther than I would have figured.  |
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Posted: 12/17/2011 10:13:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
Here is the text of an email my buddy sent out about using a 22-250: I have never been a believer in small bullets (under about125g) on deer, but I recently had the opportunity to educate myself a little. It was nagging me that my 22-250 was my only virgin bolt rifle, so I took it toWV for doe season. Also, my first experience with polymer tipped bullets;not sure what effect that has vs. LSP, also the highest velocity I have takendeer with.
1st deer (about 90 lb BB) - Hornady A Max 55g (I think,maybe 60) at 3683 fps; hard, hard quartering away at 80 yards. This isthe entrance wound pic attached. I think it is so big because of theglancing angle, it broke 5 ribs, maybe because of the short range/small deer too. The deer ran about 120 yards, no blood trial until I was in sight of thedeer. Internal damage was extreme; I didn't cut any meat from theentrance side front quarter, bullet didn't exit and I couldn't find it, safe tosay it was really broken up.
2nd deer (about 140 lb doe) - Sierra MatchKing 55g at 3708fps, broadside at 175 yards. "Normal" looking entrance wound(index finger size hole), the deer ran about 150 yards, no blood trial until Iwas in sight of the deer. Internal damage was extreme; I didn't cut any meatfrom the entrance side front quarter of this one either, bullet didn't exit andI couldn't find it.
I was really, really surprised at the lack of a blood trail,or any good sign of a hit (hair even) at the spot the deer had been standing,and both were well placed shots. So little, I ended up finding both deerthe following morning, and I saw both before I was able to find any significantblood trail. Backtracking after I found the deer, it amazed me that thesebullets hit that hard, did that much damage, (lungs were jelly), and didn't causemuch bleeding or trail. A lot of bowhunters are convinced a low exitwound is critical to finding animals that go out of sight, I believethere's something to that. Once the lungs were removed, there wasn't any internaltrauma on the off side, so I believe the bullets didn't make it very far insideeither. Both deer went farther than I would have figured.
Your buddy is using bullets designed to come apart on chipmunks, that is the reason for the lack of penetration. If he would have been using a bullet designed for deer sized animals like TSX or a Partition, he would have had complete through and through penetration. |
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Posted: 12/17/2011 10:37:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
Here is the text of an email my buddy sent out about using a 22-250: I have never been a believer in small bullets (under about125g) on deer, but I recently had the opportunity to educate myself a little. It was nagging me that my 22-250 was my only virgin bolt rifle, so I took it toWV for doe season. Also, my first experience with polymer tipped bullets;not sure what effect that has vs. LSP, also the highest velocity I have takendeer with.
1st deer (about 90 lb BB) - Hornady A Max 55g (I think,maybe 60) at 3683 fps; hard, hard quartering away at 80 yards. This isthe entrance wound pic attached. I think it is so big because of theglancing angle, it broke 5 ribs, maybe because of the short range/small deer too. The deer ran about 120 yards, no blood trial until I was in sight of thedeer. Internal damage was extreme; I didn't cut any meat from theentrance side front quarter, bullet didn't exit and I couldn't find it, safe tosay it was really broken up.
2nd deer (about 140 lb doe) - Sierra MatchKing 55g at 3708fps, broadside at 175 yards. "Normal" looking entrance wound(index finger size hole), the deer ran about 150 yards, no blood trial until Iwas in sight of the deer. Internal damage was extreme; I didn't cut any meatfrom the entrance side front quarter of this one either, bullet didn't exit andI couldn't find it.
I was really, really surprised at the lack of a blood trail,or any good sign of a hit (hair even) at the spot the deer had been standing,and both were well placed shots. So little, I ended up finding both deerthe following morning, and I saw both before I was able to find any significantblood trail. Backtracking after I found the deer, it amazed me that thesebullets hit that hard, did that much damage, (lungs were jelly), and didn't causemuch bleeding or trail. A lot of bowhunters are convinced a low exitwound is critical to finding animals that go out of sight, I believethere's something to that. Once the lungs were removed, there wasn't any internaltrauma on the off side, so I believe the bullets didn't make it very far insideeither. Both deer went farther than I would have figured.
Your buddy is using bullets designed to come apart on chipmunks, that is the reason for the lack of penetration. If he would have been using a bullet designed for deer sized animals like TSX or a Partition, he would have had complete through and through penetration. I still can't believe people haven't learned that different bullets are made for different purposes, even in the same caliber. 
All through this thread it's been repeated that most 223 bullets are made for varmints and not larger game like deer and that you have to be careful what you use for deer hunting when hunting with 223 bullets. If you have any doubts about whether a bullet is suitable for deer hunting or not, CALL THE MANUFACTURER AND ASK. |
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Posted: 12/17/2011 12:38:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By danc46: Originally Posted By DPeacher: Originally Posted By Ironmaker: Here is the text of an email my buddy sent out about using a 22-250: I have never been a believer in small bullets (under about125g) on deer, but I recently had the opportunity to educate myself a little. It was nagging me that my 22-250 was my only virgin bolt rifle, so I took it toWV for doe season. Also, my first experience with polymer tipped bullets;not sure what effect that has vs. LSP, also the highest velocity I have takendeer with. 1st deer (about 90 lb BB) - Hornady A Max 55g (I think,maybe 60) at 3683 fps; hard, hard quartering away at 80 yards. This isthe entrance wound pic attached. I think it is so big because of theglancing angle, it broke 5 ribs, maybe because of the short range/small deer too. The deer ran about 120 yards, no blood trial until I was in sight of thedeer. Internal damage was extreme; I didn't cut any meat from theentrance side front quarter, bullet didn't exit and I couldn't find it, safe tosay it was really broken up. 2nd deer (about 140 lb doe) - Sierra MatchKing 55g at 3708fps, broadside at 175 yards. "Normal" looking entrance wound(index finger size hole), the deer ran about 150 yards, no blood trial until Iwas in sight of the deer. Internal damage was extreme; I didn't cut any meatfrom the entrance side front quarter of this one either, bullet didn't exit andI couldn't find it. I was really, really surprised at the lack of a blood trail,or any good sign of a hit (hair even) at the spot the deer had been standing,and both were well placed shots. So little, I ended up finding both deerthe following morning, and I saw both before I was able to find any significantblood trail. Backtracking after I found the deer, it amazed me that thesebullets hit that hard, did that much damage, (lungs were jelly), and didn't causemuch bleeding or trail. A lot of bowhunters are convinced a low exitwound is critical to finding animals that go out of sight, I believethere's something to that. Once the lungs were removed, there wasn't any internaltrauma on the off side, so I believe the bullets didn't make it very far insideeither. Both deer went farther than I would have figured. Your buddy is using bullets designed to come apart on chipmunks, that is the reason for the lack of penetration. If he would have been using a bullet designed for deer sized animals like TSX or a Partition, he would have had complete through and through penetration. I still can't believe people haven't learned that different bullets are made for different purposes, even in the same caliber. All through this thread it's been repeated that most 223 bullets are made for varmints and not larger game like deer and that you have to be careful what you use for deer hunting when hunting with 223 bullets. If you have any doubts about whether a bullet is suitable for deer hunting or not, CALL THE MANUFACTURER AND ASK. Absolutley with all of the above. I have had that conversation with him. He has a number if hunting rifles in all kinds of calibers - 223 to 6mm to 270 to 30-06. He was experitmenting with the bullets he had available to reload. I left off the last line of his email which said he was going back to his 27o. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 12/22/2011 8:05:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Axe]
[#13]
Anybody ever had experience with Win. 64 gr. PP? A few years back I shot a smalish deer with a 16in bbl. with one of those and the bullet disenigrated on the shoulder. Very shallow horrendus wound. It killed it but don't know if it would preform better at longer distances. I shot this deer at like 15 feet. I know the Barnes is probably the best thing going for deer but I was just curious.
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Posted: 12/22/2011 9:42:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By Axe:
Anybody ever had experience with Win. 64 gr. PP? A few years back I shot a smalish deer with a 16in bbl. with one of those and the bullet disenigrated on the shoulder. Very shallow horrendus wound. It killed it but don't know if it would preform better at longer distances. I shot this deer at like 15 feet. I know the Barnes is probably the best thing going for deer but I was just curious. I've shot 3 does with the Win 64 gr PowerPoint. All of them have worked just fine at 80 -120 yards. Full broadside penetration with ample evidence of expansion. However, they are simple cup and core bullets and therefore they are somewhat more prone to failure than bonded core or homogeneous copper bullets. Even .30 cal cup and core bullets have been known to "fail" on deer sized critters, but they generally have enough mass to get the job done even if they do come apart. .223 is effective, but the hunter must choose the proper bullet AND be patient for the deer to orient itself to the more favorable position, and be willing to let the deer walk off if the conditions are not right. |
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Posted: 12/28/2011 9:01:55 PM EDT
[#15]
My hunting partner this year was using one of my ARs to hunt with. His only AR is an AR pistol. Mine is an M4 clone pretty much all Spikes with 1:7 twist barrel. Anyway I loaded him up with some 75 gr Match Prvi I had. I know it's not really a hunting round but have heard others say they had good results.
His first kill was on a large doe. DRT. Perfect shot. He shot another deer within 5 minutes but think that one must have been a gut shot. Never found it and only limited signs. His 2nd kill was at a jumping deer. He caught her mid jump. She came down and flipped over DRT. Shot his last one yesterday. Double lung shot kinda low but it only ran about 20 yards. I think this is a case that shows where the fragmenting bullets can kill pretty quickly. |
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Posted: 12/28/2011 10:55:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By BamaInArk: My hunting partner this year was using one of my ARs to hunt with. His only AR is an AR pistol. Mine is an M4 clone pretty much all Spikes with 1:7 twist barrel. Anyway I loaded him up with some 75 gr Match Prvi I had. I know it's not really a hunting round but have heard others say they had good results. His first kill was on a large doe. DRT. Perfect shot. He shot another deer within 5 minutes but think that one must have been a gut shot. Never found it and only limited signs. His 2nd kill was at a jumping deer. He caught her mid jump. She came down and flipped over DRT. Shot his last one yesterday. Double lung shot kinda low but it only ran about 20 yards. I think this is a case that shows where the fragmenting bullets can kill pretty quickly. If I had just given up finding an animal that I was fairly certain was mortally wounded, (which would have made me feel like shit, anyway), I can guarantee the next shot would have been a 95% certain kill shot at a stationary animal. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I was just taught that this type of behavior is not the type that would endear us hunters to the non-hunting folk, or even to other hunters. You don't have to agree with me, and you probably don't. Just felt like I should say it. |
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Posted: 12/29/2011 11:01:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By Scott_R:
Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
My hunting partner this year was using one of my ARs to hunt with. His only AR is an AR pistol. Mine is an M4 clone pretty much all Spikes with 1:7 twist barrel. Anyway I loaded him up with some 75 gr Match Prvi I had. I know it's not really a hunting round but have heard others say they had good results. His first kill was on a large doe. DRT. Perfect shot. He shot another deer within 5 minutes but think that one must have been a gut shot. Never found it and only limited signs. His 2nd kill was at a jumping deer. He caught her mid jump. She came down and flipped over DRT. Shot his last one yesterday. Double lung shot kinda low but it only ran about 20 yards. I think this is a case that shows where the fragmenting bullets can kill pretty quickly. If I had just given up finding an animal that I was fairly certain was mortally wounded, (which would have made me feel like shit, anyway), I can guarantee the next shot would have been a 95% certain kill shot at a stationary animal. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I was just taught that this type of behavior is not the type that would endear us hunters to the non-hunting folk, or even to other hunters. You don't have to agree with me, and you probably don't. Just felt like I should say it. Scott_R is right. A couple of good kills with a fragmenting bullet DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL PERFORM ALL THE TIME. Every shot in the field will not be perfect no matter who the shooter is. A fragmenting bullet can hit a bone, mortally wound the deer, but not drop it quick enough. I don't like shooting a deer and losing it just to feed coyotes and crows. A hunter kills his first deer and he thinks his formula is the best. Others that have killed dozens know that sometimes even when you use what you think is the best gear you will not get the job done in the best manner. Shoot the trophy buck of your life time with a fragmenting bullet, then lose the deer and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
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Posted: 12/30/2011 12:52:23 PM EDT
[#18]
In regards..... the one miss was due to a bad shot, you know that whole shot placement thing. Think I've heard that somewhere before! A gut shot is bad no matter what round you are using. Might as well have been with a .458. The results probably would have been the same. Honestly I'm pleased with the rounds my friends used. They seemed to work quite well. I would hunt with them and feel confident.
I still prefer the TSX over any other hunting bullet however. We just didn't have any in 223. I was hunting with a 6.8. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/31/2011 9:19:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Thumbscrew]
[#19]
Earlier this year Palmetto State Armory had some surplus ammo for sale from the immigration people, XM223SP1. its a .223 load that uses the Federal Fusion 62gr bonded softpoint. They were cheap, 9.95/box I think. I bought a good sized box full to try them out. Accuracy is better than I am in my 18 inch 'hunting' AR and they seem consistent. Tonight I finally managed to see a deer with the AR in hand and took a shot at around 130-140yards little buck about 120-130lbs, hit him in the shoulder and crushed it, liquefied the lungs and heart completely and broke two ribs on the exit side but did not exit. Sadly I was unable to recover the bullet, I think it got lost in the gutpile. I know that this is a sample of one and not much to go by but the XM223SP1 seems to be an effective and inexpensive (southern) whitetail bullet if you can find it for sale.
Edit to add link to ammo.. http://palmettostatearmory.com/1829.php |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/14/2012 2:33:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By Axe:
Anybody ever had experience with Win. 64 gr. PP? A few years back I shot a smalish deer with a 16in bbl. with one of those and the bullet disenigrated on the shoulder. Very shallow horrendus wound. It killed it but don't know if it would preform better at longer distances. I shot this deer at like 15 feet. I know the Barnes is probably the best thing going for deer but I was just curious. I've shot 3 does with the Win 64 gr PowerPoint. All of them have worked just fine at 80 -120 yards. Full broadside penetration with ample evidence of expansion. However, they are simple cup and core bullets and therefore they are somewhat more prone to failure than bonded core or homogeneous copper bullets. Even .30 cal cup and core bullets have been known to "fail" on deer sized critters, but they generally have enough mass to get the job done even if they do come apart. .223 is effective, but the hunter must choose the proper bullet AND be patient for the deer to orient itself to the more favorable position, and be willing to let the deer walk off if the conditions are not right. Got my 1st with the AR platform this morning. Using 16" mid-length, Blackhole Weaponry, barrel & Winchester Ranger 64gr Power Point. About a 70 yard shot; entered through Right front shoulder, breaking it; through rib; destroyed lungs & 1/2 of the heart; then exited other side. She ran about 30 yards before she realized she was dead. Not a wallhanger, but she'll fill a shelf in the freezer. href=http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/BrokeHoss/1st%20Blood/th_camera001.jpg" /> href=http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc441/BrokeHoss/1st%20Blood/th_camera003.jpg" /> I'll have no qualms using this same set up in the future. You just gotta keep the range reasonable and within the abilities of yourself & your equipment. As Dirty Harry says: "A man's gotta know his limitations". |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/17/2012 1:24:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Being a fan of the 30-06 and using it for deer exclusively for the 20 years or so I was leery of the .223 for deer to say the least. But after purchasing my AR I had to try it out. A friend reloaded some ammo for me using 60gr nosler partitions. Now I am sorry I ever doubted it. My sons and I have taken many deer with this rifle. #3 son killed a doe this year at a staggering 307 paces. It wasn't a complete shoot through but there was an exit wound. We've had only 1 ever get away. As its been said many times already the right bullet and good shot placement and the. 223 is as good as any for deer.
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Posted: 4/1/2012 11:39:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Anyone had success with the 65 gr. Sierra Gamekings? I've just loaded some up to test at the range. Should be ~3000 FPS out of my 20".
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Posted: 4/1/2012 4:10:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By StraightSix:
Anyone had success with the 65 gr. Sierra Gamekings? I've just loaded some up to test at the range. Should be ~3000 FPS out of my 20". My advice to you is to call or email Sierra and ask what is their best bullet in the 223 flavor for whitetail deer. Don't ask if X bullet will work, just simply ask which bullet they will recommend. I did that with Nosler and they recommended the 60 grain Partition. It worked fine for several does that I shot or saw shot with my reloads. I do have reservations about them on a big buck simply because I haven't used them on one and really aren't sure if I will. But by all means, if you have good accuracy with the Gamekings and Sierra recommends them without being prompted to do so, you'll most likely have good results in using them for deer hunting.
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Posted: 4/1/2012 5:25:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: StraightSix]
[#24]
Originally Posted By danc46:
Originally Posted By StraightSix:
Anyone had success with the 65 gr. Sierra Gamekings? I've just loaded some up to test at the range. Should be ~3000 FPS out of my 20". My advice to you is to call or email Sierra and ask what is their best bullet in the 223 flavor for whitetail deer. Don't ask if X bullet will work, just simply ask which bullet they will recommend. I did that with Nosler and they recommended the 60 grain Partition. It worked fine for several does that I shot or saw shot with my reloads. I do have reservations about them on a big buck simply because I haven't used them on one and really aren't sure if I will. But by all means, if you have good accuracy with the Gamekings and Sierra recommends them without being prompted to do so, you'll most likely have good results in using them for deer hunting.
Okay, thanks. I did some minimal research on the bullet construction but it is a good idea to call Sierra to make sure this is a SP for deer-sized game. ETA: The bullet is designed for game up to and including whitetail deer. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 7/17/2012 4:30:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Humbarger]
[#25]
Anyone have any experience with the Barnes tipped triple shock. I've killed mule deer with them ( 30 cal.) & those kills were the most impressive kills that I have ever made or witnessed. Just courious about their performance in the 223 on whitetails.
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Posted: 7/17/2012 4:37:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By Humbarger:
Anyone have any experience with the Barnes tipped triple shock. I've killed mule deer with them ( 30 cal.) & those kills were the most impressive kills that I have ever made or witnessed. Just courious about their performance in the 223 on whitetails. http://www.grafs.com/uploads/product-picture/preview/22506.jpg The all copper tsx line of bullets have been discussed numerous times in this and other threads. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 7/17/2012 10:36:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Well... what is the concensus?
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Posted: 7/17/2012 10:39:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By Humbarger:
Well... what is the concensus? They are just fine, fine indeed 
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Posted: 7/17/2012 11:11:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By danc46:
Originally Posted By Scott_R:
Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
My hunting partner this year was using one of my ARs to hunt with. His only AR is an AR pistol. Mine is an M4 clone pretty much all Spikes with 1:7 twist barrel. Anyway I loaded him up with some 75 gr Match Prvi I had. I know it's not really a hunting round but have heard others say they had good results. His first kill was on a large doe. DRT. Perfect shot. He shot another deer within 5 minutes but think that one must have been a gut shot. Never found it and only limited signs. His 2nd kill was at a jumping deer. He caught her mid jump. She came down and flipped over DRT. Shot his last one yesterday. Double lung shot kinda low but it only ran about 20 yards. I think this is a case that shows where the fragmenting bullets can kill pretty quickly. If I had just given up finding an animal that I was fairly certain was mortally wounded, (which would have made me feel like shit, anyway), I can guarantee the next shot would have been a 95% certain kill shot at a stationary animal. I'm not trying to be a jerk. I was just taught that this type of behavior is not the type that would endear us hunters to the non-hunting folk, or even to other hunters. You don't have to agree with me, and you probably don't. Just felt like I should say it. Scott_R is right. A couple of good kills with a fragmenting bullet DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL PERFORM ALL THE TIME. Every shot in the field will not be perfect no matter who the shooter is. A fragmenting bullet can hit a bone, mortally wound the deer, but not drop it quick enough. I don't like shooting a deer and losing it just to feed coyotes and crows. A hunter kills his first deer and he thinks his formula is the best. Others that have killed dozens know that sometimes even when you use what you think is the best gear you will not get the job done in the best manner. Shoot the trophy buck of your life time with a fragmenting bullet, then lose the deer and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
A fragmenting bullet put in the kill zone will kill 100% of the time, you should not be shooting the shoulder or taking hard angled shots (if you dont know exactly how to make them) A 45 grn HPat high velocity 3800 fps and up into the ribs and then lungs will kill 98% of the deer nearly instantly, if shot so. If the deer does runs you will more than likely not get a blood trail. Out of over a hundred deer I have seen shot this light weight high velocity bullets I have only seen one deer take more than a step or two and it went 100 yards with no heart left and most of it lungs gone. There is an enormous target on a deer that does not require busting down heavy bones. To be honest the time I have hit the shoulder bone and I am not talking about the scapula, its sent bone fragments all the way to the off side ribs. As I have always said, cleanly killing game is not about caliber or bullet construction nearly so much as it is about knowing your limitations and your abilities. It is your responsibility to be an educated ethical hunter. Do not take shots you do not know you can make, if you have not practiced such a shot than you do not know if you can make it. This is not aimed an danc46 just my experience and opinion on the matter. I have two preferred 223 rounds for deer 75 grn TAP and 70 grn TSX the TAP seems to have a more immediate effect on the animal and leaves larger exit wounds even through bone. The TSX penetrates like a laser beam and allows more options on shot angle. I shot through a doe last year from her chest into her back leg, the bullet was logged against the hide on the back of the leg. |
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Posted: 7/17/2012 11:18:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MTNmyMag]
[#30]
Originally Posted By StraightSix:
Anyone had success with the 65 gr. Sierra Gamekings? I've just loaded some up to test at the range. Should be ~3000 FPS out of my 20". I have killed a couple dozen deer with 69 grn SMKs since you are a team member you can read about it here http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=955058 I recommend you take a bow hunter style shot with them. While every deer I shot that hit spine went down in its tracks I had several fail to penetrate the spine. ETA just saw you were talking Gamekings, yes they will work on Whitetails. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 7/18/2012 11:34:01 AM EDT
[#31]
Thanks BillyDoubleU.
BTW your avatar reminds me of when we ( USS America CVA 66) were coming back from Vietnam around the Horn of Africa & went straight through a typhon. The DD that was escorting us could'nt hang with us & had to run for it. We too had waves coming over the bow. Did I just tell me age?!! 
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Posted: 7/18/2012 11:46:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By Humbarger:
Thanks BillyDoubleU. BTW your avatar reminds me of when we ( USS America CVA 66) were coming back from Vietnam around the Horn of Africa & went straight through a typhon. The DD that was escorting us could'nt hang with us & had to run for it. We too had waves coming over the bow. Did I just tell me age?!! Lol yep. That was when we crossed the Atlantic back in '01 
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Posted: 7/29/2012 8:48:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By StraightSix:
Anyone had success with the 65 gr. Sierra Gamekings? I've just loaded some up to test at the range. Should be ~3000 FPS out of my 20". I have killed a couple dozen deer with 69 grn SMKs since you are a team member you can read about it here http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=955058 I recommend you take a bow hunter style shot with them. While every deer I shot that hit spine went down in its tracks I had several fail to penetrate the spine. ETA just saw you were talking Gamekings, yes they will work on Whitetails. Thank you for the reply.
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Posted: 8/19/2012 7:00:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By DrDeath:
Try these! 4000 fps!!! http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-gr-NTX/ Please don't shoot deer sized game with those. They are loaded with V-Max bullets, which are designed for rapid/explosive expansion in varmints, not deer. this. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2012 8:38:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Humbarger]
[#35]
Well i'm ready for deer season. My pet load with the Hornady 55gr GMX is 25.0 gr of Varget. Gave my a five shot group of .625 @ 100 yards out of my 16" Lothar Walther barrel. Next is to shoot it across the chrony so that I can accuratly dope the trajectory.
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Posted: 8/26/2012 5:42:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By Humbarger:
Well i'm ready for deer season. My pet load with the Hornady 55gr GMX is 25.0 gr of Varget. Gave my a five shot group of .625 @ 100 yards out of my 16" Lothar Walther barrel. Next is to shoot it across the chrony so that I can accuratly dope the trajectory. Sweet! Please keep in mind the GMX and TSX will only expand above a certain impact velocity (2000fps for the GMX, 1800fps for the TSX). Below that velocity they will act just like a FMJ so take care to only take shots at ranges that are within the expanding velocity envelope. Please let us know how the GMX performs!! |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2012 10:34:08 AM EDT
[#37]
Good info DPreacher.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2012 12:51:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: M16tackdriver]
[#38]
It is illegal in FL to hunt deer with a ,223 . I hunt deer and hogs exclusively with a ,30-06. It is very unusual for them to take more than a few steps before falling. Most fall right where they are hit..
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/1/2012 2:02:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By M16tackdriver:
It is illegal in FL to hunt deer with a ,223 . I hunt deer and hogs exclusively with a ,30-06. It is very unusual for them to take more than a few steps before falling. Most fall right where they are hit.. Only restriction is no rimfire.. Taken from : http://myfwc.com/hunting/regulations/taking-game/ Firearms using rimfire cartridges for taking deer |
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Posted: 9/17/2012 8:38:01 AM EDT
[#40]
Originally Posted By DrDeath:
Does anyone make a FACTORY load with a 62G TSX? cor-bon |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/17/2012 10:40:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By ariesfromhell:
Originally Posted By DrDeath:
Does anyone make a FACTORY load with a 62G TSX? cor-bon And Black Hills. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 6:58:37 PM EDT
[#42]
What about the new Winchester boar/pig ammo for deer?
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Posted: 10/1/2012 9:29:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By mike103:
What about the new Winchester boar/pig ammo for deer? The Razorback XT? I have no experience with that projectile, but having watched the video from Winchester is looks very similar to a TSX/GMX except Winchester mushed in the area in front of the ogive to delay expansion. I have no idea if that is just marketing BS. I know projectiles like the TSX/GMX depend on relatively high impact velocities for reliable expansion so I suspect the RXT to be similar. I suspect that as long as the impact velocity falls within the designed expansion threshold and it lands in the vitals it will kill deer just fine. |
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Posted: 10/1/2012 9:57:54 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By DPeacher: Originally Posted By mike103: What about the new Winchester boar/pig ammo for deer? The Razorback XT? I have no experience with that projectile, but having watched the video from Winchester is looks very similar to a TSX/GMX except Winchester mushed in the area in front of the ogive to delay expansion. I have no idea if that is just marketing BS. I know projectiles like the TSX/GMX depend on relatively high impact velocities for reliable expansion so I suspect the RXT to be similar. I suspect that as long as the impact velocity falls within the designed expansion threshold and it lands in the vitals it will kill deer just fine. Here is a link to a thread where someone shot it into perma-gel. Now keep in mind two things: 1) Perma-gel is NOT an approved tissue simulant. 2) It is more likely to exaggerate expansion. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/583759_Copper_solid_rounds_in_Perma_Gel.html With that in mind, I'd pass on this round for now as there are better designs that offer greater expansion. I do not know of any shots into properly calibrated ballistic gelatin and would love to see it. |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 10:06:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By mike103:
What about the new Winchester boar/pig ammo for deer? The Razorback XT? I have no experience with that projectile, but having watched the video from Winchester is looks very similar to a TSX/GMX except Winchester mushed in the area in front of the ogive to delay expansion. I have no idea if that is just marketing BS. I know projectiles like the TSX/GMX depend on relatively high impact velocities for reliable expansion so I suspect the RXT to be similar. I suspect that as long as the impact velocity falls within the designed expansion threshold and it lands in the vitals it will kill deer just fine. Here is a link to a thread where someone shot it into perma-gel. Now keep in mind two things: 1) Perma-gel is NOT an approved tissue simulant. 2) It is more likely to exaggerate expansion. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/583759_Copper_solid_rounds_in_Perma_Gel.html With that in mind, I'd pass on this round for now as there are better designs that offer greater expansion. I do not know of any shots into properly calibrated ballistic gelatin and would love to see it. Good to know! I'll be sticking with the TSX. |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 5:47:05 PM EDT
[#46]
My Nikon 223 scope is on the way from Cabelas.
I am going to shoot a deer with the AR for the first time this year, GOD willing. Not my first deer but my first with the AR. I am thinking of the Federal 60 grain nosler partition, 62 grain Cor Bon, or many on other sites are telling me the standard Remington 55 grain SP are the ticket. Opinions? |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 6:24:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By mike103:
My Nikon 223 scope is on the way from Cabelas. I am going to shoot a deer with the AR for the first time this year, GOD willing. Not my first deer but my first with the AR. I am thinking of the Federal 60 grain nosler partition, 62 grain Cor Bon, or many on other sites are telling me the standard Remington 55 grain SP are the ticket. Opinions? I have personally used the 60gr Partition and the 62gr TSX to kill several whitetails and hogs. I want a bullet that reliably expand AND retain the majority of it's weight for deep penetration. I know from first hand experience that those two do. The trick with the TSX is to make sure the impact velocity is above 1800 FPS to ensure expansion. |
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Posted: 10/2/2012 7:18:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By mike103:
My Nikon 223 scope is on the way from Cabelas. I am going to shoot a deer with the AR for the first time this year, GOD willing. Not my first deer but my first with the AR. I am thinking of the Federal 60 grain nosler partition, 62 grain Cor Bon, or many on other sites are telling me the standard Remington 55 grain SP are the ticket. Opinions? I have personally used the 60gr Partition and the 62gr TSX to kill several whitetails and hogs. I want a bullet that reliably expand AND retain the majority of it's weight for deep penetration. I know from first hand experience that those two do. The trick with the TSX is to make sure the impact velocity is above 1800 FPS to ensure expansion. Ok I think I will order a few boxes of the Federals. Very excited for the AR hunt. I will only use the 223 on stand. On drives and in areas where bears are known I will move up to the usual big guns. 30-06, 35 Rem, 35 Whelen, 350 Rem mag, 45/70 ect..... |
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Posted: 10/8/2012 5:11:35 AM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By DanParker:
Originally Posted By DrDeath:
Its surprising that the lighter bullets perform better I don't think he said they performed better. He said the hit with the lighter round was a good heart shot, while the one with the 75 gr. was too far back and too low (possibly a non-vitals hit). I'd expect that to produce a less-desirable result no matter what round you were using. That's why the consistenly repeated mantra that shot-placement is key. Might not necessarily be true. It sounds like the 55gn was able to fragment while the 77gn stayed together. I have shot many deer with 64gn soft point. I have shot many hogs with 55,62,64, and 77 gn. It is a fine hunting round. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2012 6:08:10 AM EDT
[#50]
I pu a box of 62g Fusion's,hope the grandson can test them out on the juvy hunt here in a few weeks
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