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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:33:42 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:55:42 PM EDT
[#2]
So...am I gonna freeze cause I don't have an under quilt?
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:02:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Just take a good blanket, wool socks and wool stocking cap. You wear the hat and socks under the blanket. It win proably be too warm and you can, at that point make adjustment. 50 degrees is very comfy weather unless you are wet and exposed.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:26:17 PM EDT
[#4]
I froze my ass off in 48 degree weather with a poncho liner under quilt and a poncho liner for a top quilt. Take a good sleeping bag and your sleeping pad and you'll be fine.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:43:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Rig something under the hammock just like you would an underquilt. The key is to have insulation that will mitigate convection heat loss and not get compressed (thereby losing its insulating properties.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:56:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Love hammock hiking. Summer was a pancho liner only. When it starts getting cooler, I cary a length of building insulation made of bubble wrap with a foil backing. It does a great job and is light, just lash it to the outside of my pack. Dipping into fall, I carried my 0* down bag, never had an under quilt, wanted one though. I got by, even got snowed on once but still stayed warm.
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Posted: 9/4/2015 8:11:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Once you go down you'll never go back.
For quilts I highly recommend Adam/Jenny at hammockgear.com or Paul/Misty at undergroundquilts.com. |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 10:05:30 AM EDT
[#8]
What am I doing wrong? After 3 hours of restlessness I ended up sleeping in my buddy's truck. My legs kept falling asleep and I could not get comfortable.
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Posted: 9/4/2015 10:51:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What am I doing wrong? After 3 hours of restlessness I ended up sleeping in my buddy's truck. My legs kept falling asleep and I could not get comfortable. Not laying on a diagonal, setting up at too steep of angle, or hammock too small would be my guesses. |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 11:26:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not laying on a diagonal, setting up at too steep of angle, or hammock too small would be my guesses. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What am I doing wrong? After 3 hours of restlessness I ended up sleeping in my buddy's truck. My legs kept falling asleep and I could not get comfortable. Not laying on a diagonal, setting up at too steep of angle, or hammock too small would be my guesses. I bought those 8 foot hammocks from walmart. I can't get comfortable in them either b/c I don't sleep on my back. I stretched as tight as I could get them and then laid blankets in the bottom to take the dip out of it, that was as close as I could get to making them flat. I think I'm gonna give up on them this year, just ordered a sleeping pad, going to go back to a tent this year. It's hard dealing with the do and hammocks anyway. I put a foam pad on the ground under my hammock for him to lay down on with an old blanket. He gets pretty cold, I'm sure he would be better off in the tent too. |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 11:28:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So...am I gonna freeze cause I don't have an under quilt? The picture above, no underquilt needed, the sleeping bag will insulate you. Hammocks can get cold if your skin touches the hammock, you'll feel it if your foot, leg or arm touches it during the night. |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 4:16:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought those 8 foot hammocks from walmart. I can't get comfortable in them either b/c I don't sleep on my back. I stretched as tight as I could get them and then laid blankets in the bottom to take the dip out of it, that was as close as I could get to making them flat. I think I'm gonna give up on them this year, just ordered a sleeping pad, going to go back to a tent this year. It's hard dealing with the do and hammocks anyway. I put a foam pad on the ground under my hammock for him to lay down on with an old blanket. He gets pretty cold, I'm sure he would be better off in the tent too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What am I doing wrong? After 3 hours of restlessness I ended up sleeping in my buddy's truck. My legs kept falling asleep and I could not get comfortable. Not laying on a diagonal, setting up at too steep of angle, or hammock too small would be my guesses. I bought those 8 foot hammocks from walmart. I can't get comfortable in them either b/c I don't sleep on my back. I stretched as tight as I could get them and then laid blankets in the bottom to take the dip out of it, that was as close as I could get to making them flat. I think I'm gonna give up on them this year, just ordered a sleeping pad, going to go back to a tent this year. It's hard dealing with the do and hammocks anyway. I put a foam pad on the ground under my hammock for him to lay down on with an old blanket. He gets pretty cold, I'm sure he would be better off in the tent too. These are good places to start. You probably had a calf ridge where the fabric pushes against the leg. Optimally every inch of your body should be supported. Setting up the hammock properly is critical to getting a good nights' rest. Unless you're on the short side, an 8' hammock most likely isn't going to be comfortable. A 9' hammock is the minimum I'd go with. I'm 6'1" and find that my 11' hammocks are the most comfortable. It also depends on the width. I'm using 56"-60" hammocks. The differences between a Wal-Mart hammock and a good backpacking hammock are great. Stretching the hammock as tight as you can is not right. Your suspension should be about 30 degrees. If you hold your hand like a gun the the thumb being the tree, the angle between the tip of your thumb and index finger should be where the suspension falls. If the trees are too close together you'll tend to banana. If they're too far apart you'll tend to be too tight. Aim for trees that are about 14-16' apart. If you do this and lay diagonally across the centerline of the hammock you'll probably find it's considerably more comfortable. Quoted:
Quoted:
So...am I gonna freeze cause I don't have an under quilt? The picture above, no underquilt needed, the sleeping bag will insulate you. Hammocks can get cold if your skin touches the hammock, you'll feel it if your foot, leg or arm touches it during the night. Well, sort of. It depends. The reason this happens is because of the convection loss caused by the air blowing across the body. This is why I pointed out putting the insulation UNDER the hammock. Sleeping in a bag INSIDE the hammock will suck. Your body will compress it and it'll have zero insulating properties under you. Some people sleep with a pad in the hammock (or use a double layer hammock that has a pocket to hold the pad. Where are y'all in Florida? I consider myself a hammock evangelist and have done several seminars. If you're close maybe we can hook up and I can share some pointers. |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 4:25:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Need some help here. I got into hammock camping this summer. Have a Warbonnet BB. Also have a tarp. Now I spent Boy Scout summer camp in it, and additional camp outs. Used a thermorest pad and little else cause it was HOT. Best camping sleep I've ever had however....anyways..I have never camped in a hammock when it is cooler. In a few weeks we are going to hike the Red River Gourge in KY. I'll be taking my hammock. The thermorest is to bulky. I can't afford an under quilt. I do have an old USGI sleeping pad. I could also go buy a new pad. I don't expect it will be all that cold. Maybe upper 50s at the most..or least...whatever... Give me some advice so I don't have a bad time. There is a very funny but very informative hammock guy on YouTube. Check him out. I do not know his name but search and you will find him |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 5:55:07 PM EDT
[#14]
You would be talking about Shug. He's certainly a clown. No, seriously. Like the Ringling kind.
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Posted: 9/4/2015 8:03:09 PM EDT
[#15]
I've watched his videos . I'm in Kentucky. Forecast for next weekend is low of 52. I'm hoping the USGI pad I have will work well enough and ill use a sleeping bag inside the hammock. Mine is double layered.
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Posted: 9/5/2015 2:16:07 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What am I doing wrong? After 3 hours of restlessness I ended up sleeping in my buddy's truck. My legs kept falling asleep and I could not get comfortable. Experimenting will net you more sleep. Your experience sounds like my first night in a hammock. Took some tweeking for me eventually get a good night's sleep. My legs and heels were my main issue. Installed a structural ridgeline (adjustable) to get a consistent sag in the hammock every time I camped. This allowed a flatter, diagonal lay. Stuffing an inflatable (REI) pillow under my knees took away the heel pressure. Lights out from then on. |
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Posted: 9/5/2015 7:23:19 AM EDT
[#17]
If you want to use a foam pad for hammock insulation you need a double layer hammock. The two layers hold your foam or airpad insulation in place.
I have a warbonnet blackbird double layer and I use it in conjunction with an exped brand "Multi-mat" which is a 40" by 80" ground pad, really helps to keep my ass warm in the hammock and is much wider than typical pads so it keeps my shoulders and arms and etc warm too. You can also fill voids beyond the pad with extra clothes as insulation too. |
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Posted: 9/5/2015 3:52:13 PM EDT
[#18]
My first night in my hammock was the best night I've ever spent camping. And I've camped a lot.
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Posted: 9/5/2015 4:45:48 PM EDT
[#19]
I've hammock camped in the linville gorge and the low was 26!
I use 2 space blankets to keep me warm. One in the hammock under a sleeping pad and sleeping bag. One on top as a tarp. This reflects a lot of your body heat back to you. Hammock location and position play a big in staying warm also. If camping near water try to get up a little into trees to avoid the wind. Hanging your hammock as close to the ground as possible will also keep you a little warmer. |
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Posted: 9/5/2015 10:02:45 PM EDT
[#20]
You can make an underquil to that will work at your temps out of an old poly fill quilt and some bungees.
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Posted: 9/7/2015 7:19:58 AM EDT
[#21]
I use the short thermarest scout. It is only 14 ounces and packs up small. I have used it with a sleeping bag down to 40 degrees in my hammock and stayed comfortable.
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Posted: 9/7/2015 9:40:32 PM EDT
[#22]
I got by with a Poncho liner underquilt for a few years. It worked, with my zero degree bag I was "comfy" down in 30s. It wasnt the best set up, and required more work then it was worth.. I have since bought and actual under quilt, and couldnt be happier.
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Posted: 9/7/2015 10:05:19 PM EDT
[#23]
I've taken my 40* UQ down to the teens and stripped because I was too warm.
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Posted: 9/8/2015 1:15:23 PM EDT
[#24]
You can get a big sleeping back, like a two person bag.
Cut the zipper out of the bottom end of it. Slide it onto your hammock before hanging. Now you have an underquilt and a top quilt. Or use the sleeping bag to make an underquilt. I have a Jacks R Better 4 and I will never go back. They are spendy, but worth it. |
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Posted: 9/8/2015 3:08:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So...am I gonna freeze cause I don't have an under quilt? probably. |
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Posted: 9/8/2015 4:15:55 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 9/9/2015 2:44:52 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So...am I gonna freeze cause I don't have an under quilt? Get a thinner sleeping pad, if you run cold I'd make a reflectix pad to go with it, just in case. |
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Posted: 9/9/2015 8:35:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get a thinner sleeping pad, if you run cold I'd make a reflectix pad to go with it, just in case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So...am I gonna freeze cause I don't have an under quilt? Get a thinner sleeping pad, if you run cold I'd make a reflectix pad to go with it, just in case. I've got one of those that I made using double reflective bubble insulation. It works like a charm, but it also is the crinkliest night's sleep you'll ever have.. Correct me if I'm wrong but the WB should have a double layer bottom in it to hold one (if it doesn't already come with one - i thought it did). reflective bubble pad is the cheapest option (also the loudest and it doesn't stay put), air mattresses are better than nothing but it's tough to keep them under you without a double bottom layer hammock (even then, they move), underquilt will be the most comfortable for your sleep (and quietest) which is a big part of why it's so expensive. look on Ebay and buy one of the "made in china" down sleeping bags for $80. Then make your own underquilt using the woobie directions at the top of the page. |
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Posted: 9/9/2015 11:53:59 AM EDT
[#29]
The Warbonnet comes in double and si gle layer models, 1.2 oz/yd and 1.7 oz/yd materials. No pad is included.
As mentioned in my page 1 post The "exped multimat" is a closed cell foam pad with 40x80 inch dimensions, weighing in at 11oz. You can use it on the ground as a picnic blanket or on the floor of your tent during warmer seasons as a big and wide ground pad. My girlfriend and I use it beneath our klymit airpads when tent camping. It can be folded in half length-wise and has equal insulative value to a thermarest Z-lite, and folded again in half short-ways into a four layer double thickness torso-pad for really cold nights when you're all fetal position. In a double layer hammock it is AMAZING! Keeps my girlfriend AND myself warm, no gaps in the coverage, and is much more weather resistant compared to any down products you might choose, plus it offers the versatility of multiple uses. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 10:00:13 PM EDT
[#30]
I would recommend a 100% wool blanket, just in case.
Expensive, but money well spent if you need it. |
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Posted: 9/15/2015 10:30:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Well....me being the broke guy I am... I used my green USGI patrol bag and a 20 year old USGI sleeping mat last weekend. It got down to 46 and rained all weekend. I did well. Now if it got under 40, I probably would have woke a few times cold. But in the upper 40s it was good. I will be getting an under quilt at some point. Just need to save money. Backpacking calls for all different gear. My base camping stuff is now to big. With an under quilt I can ditch the sleeping bag and get a over quilt and save room...at lest that's my thinking.
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Posted: 9/15/2015 11:03:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So...am I gonna freeze cause I don't have an under quilt? No. There's this as an option. 
I use it like a cocoon and put my hammock through it and cinch both ends up. just make sure that you vent enough to release the condensation. Has kept me toasty warm on several winter survival scout camp outs where the lows were in the teens and single digits. |
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Posted: 9/16/2015 10:26:44 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well....me being the broke guy I am... I used my green USGI patrol bag and a 20 year old USGI sleeping mat last weekend. It got down to 46 and rained all weekend. I did well. Now if it got under 40, I probably would have woke a few times cold. But in the upper 40s it was good. I will be getting an under quilt at some point. Just need to save money. Backpacking calls for all different gear. My base camping stuff is now to big. With an under quilt I can ditch the sleeping bag and get a over quilt and save room...at lest that's my thinking. good to hear that you did alright. the first couple times I used my Hennessy, I woke up several times due to freezing my butt off.. (mid 60s with <5mph breeze). I was using a thin microfiber mummy liner and it just didn't work for me. I have since added a reflective bubble pad and one of the 50* REI travel sleep sacks and it really helped. (high 50s, raining, <5mph breeze). I dont have an under quilt but I'll probably be adding one this fall. (or possibly going with Hennessy's MONSOON/TYPHOON style fly.) |
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Posted: 9/16/2015 5:01:47 PM EDT
[#34]
I use this pad along with a down bag.
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Posted: 9/23/2015 9:57:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Build a fire under it.
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Posted: 9/27/2015 11:17:14 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryI made one using this method and it kept me warm, it dropped to 26 degrees one or two nights on a kayak trip (Savannah River, 141 miles, Jan-2015). |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 2:27:47 AM EDT
[#37]
Any additional tips for sizing a good hammock to also keep it fairly light weight? I'd like to try one out. We went to Red River Gorge this weekend, and most of the good level camping spots were already taken. I can see the hammock opening up a whole lot more places. I already have a top quilt (UGQ) and a couple of exped pads. I'd like to be able to use the pads vs a bottom quilt unless that's stupid. I'm about 5'10" and 200 lbs. I'd rather buy once/cry once, assuming the price isn't too crazy. I'm curious what accessories you guys get (extra tarps, hanging straps, etc)? How do you keep the rest of your gear safe and dry? Sorry for the hijack OP, I can move this to a new thread if you'd like. Any advice? |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 10:44:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any additional tips for sizing a good hammock to also keep it fairly light weight? I'd like to try one out. We went to Red River Gorge this weekend, and most of the good level camping spots were already taken. I can see the hammock opening up a whole lot more places. I already have a top quilt (UGQ) and a couple of exped pads. I'd like to be able to use the pads vs a bottom quilt unless that's stupid. I'm about 5'10" and 200 lbs. I'd rather buy once/cry once, assuming the price isn't too crazy. I'm curious what accessories you guys get (extra tarps, hanging straps, etc)? How do you keep the rest of your gear safe and dry? Sorry for the hijack OP, I can move this to a new thread if you'd like. Any advice? in my opinion, the Hennessy Jungle Asym zip is the best all around hammock that you dont really have to upgrade out of the box. that being said, I make due with my Hennessy Expedition Asym ZIP, but after knowing what I know now.. I would have purchased a Jungle if I had it to do over again. I like that Hennessy's Jungle Expedition has: has integral mosquito netting includes a decent sized fly second bottom layer to hold the reflective pad in place (i dont have the extra layer and my bubble pad/air mattress/etc moves around as I'm sleeping) it doesn't include the reflective pad but you can make one out of double bubble reflective insulation (it makes a HUGE difference when the temp is lower than 70*) I made my own tree hugger straps out of tubular webbing and they work perfectly using an old piece of tent pole for a lightweight toggle.. I also swapped out my suspension lines for some woopie slings made of AMSTEEL |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 6:33:26 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in my opinion, the Hennessy Jungle Asym zip is the best all around hammock that you dont really have to upgrade out of the box. has integral mosquito netting Attached netting is a deal killer for me. Not enough flexibility. ymmv |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 6:36:01 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Attached netting is a deal killer for me. Not enough flexibility. ymmv Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
in my opinion, the Hennessy Jungle Asym zip is the best all around hammock that you dont really have to upgrade out of the box. has integral mosquito netting Attached netting is a deal killer for me. Not enough flexibility. ymmv you know how I know you haven't been backpacking with a hammock? if you want a lounging hammock also, buy an ENO, they're very popular with teenage girls. |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 7:34:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you know how I know you haven't been backpacking with a hammock? if you want a lounging hammock also, buy an ENO, they're very popular with teenage girls. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
in my opinion, the Hennessy Jungle Asym zip is the best all around hammock that you dont really have to upgrade out of the box. has integral mosquito netting Attached netting is a deal killer for me. Not enough flexibility. ymmv you know how I know you haven't been backpacking with a hammock? if you want a lounging hammock also, buy an ENO, they're very popular with teenage girls. |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 7:42:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
honestly I wish I went with separate skeeter net. When it's 36 degrees mosquitos are the least of my problems Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
in my opinion, the Hennessy Jungle Asym zip is the best all around hammock that you dont really have to upgrade out of the box. has integral mosquito netting Attached netting is a deal killer for me. Not enough flexibility. ymmv you know how I know you haven't been backpacking with a hammock? if you want a lounging hammock also, buy an ENO, they're very popular with teenage girls. there's absolutely no drawback.. not having the material might save you 8oz... but Hennessy's integration is flawless compared with the separate mosquito nets that are bottom entry and dont completely close up at the bottom.. there is no need for a separate ridgeline, the entire system works.. |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 9:28:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Attached netting is a deal killer for me. Not enough flexibility. ymmv Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
in my opinion, the Hennessy Jungle Asym zip is the best all around hammock that you dont really have to upgrade out of the box. has integral mosquito netting Attached netting is a deal killer for me. Not enough flexibility. ymmv Get a Warbonnet Blackbird. You can take the bugnet off if you wnt in the winter. |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 9:31:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any additional tips for sizing a good hammock to also keep it fairly light weight? I'd like to try one out. We went to Red River Gorge this weekend, and most of the good level camping spots were already taken. I can see the hammock opening up a whole lot more places. I already have a top quilt (UGQ) and a couple of exped pads. I'd like to be able to use the pads vs a bottom quilt unless that's stupid. I'm about 5'10" and 200 lbs. I'd rather buy once/cry once, assuming the price isn't too crazy. I'm curious what accessories you guys get (extra tarps, hanging straps, etc)? How do you keep the rest of your gear safe and dry? Sorry for the hijack OP, I can move this to a new thread if you'd like. Any advice? That's where I was. We hang our packs on a tree and leave the rain covers on them. I have a Warbonnet mambajamba tarp. Packs up real small. I haven't gotten wet when using a tarp yet. |
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Posted: 10/13/2015 10:45:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you know how I know you haven't been backpacking with a hammock? if you want a lounging hammock also, buy an ENO, they're very popular with teenage girls. Seriously? You know how I know you're a xxx? I've probably forgotten more about hammocks than you've even known. But you're right, I don't know anything about backpacking with a hammock. This would be my Tree to Trail Gear Light Hiker. 
My Wilderness Logics Lite Owl being setup. 
Here I am in the Ocala Natl Forest. 
Along the AT in NC. 
You see, I do actually have quite a bit of experience with hammocking. And I'm open to other insight because that's how we learn. Unlike you, though, I'm not a xxx. I prefer to use my knowledge to encourage and educate people rather than insulting them when they have a different point of view. I'm making an exception for you. Here I am explaining the benefits of a bridge hammock (a Warbonnet RidgeRunner in this case) during one of several seminars I've given. I realize that we all have different needs, sleeping styles, body sizes/shapes, etc. So what works for me may not work for a xxx like you. That's why I have a dozen hammocks that allow me to explain how/why you might choose one hammock over another. 
A small sample of my seminar kit. 
I've learned a lot during my years' of backpacking with a hammock. I've made a lot of tweaks and adjustments and try to help others make the transition from the ground as seamless and painless as possible. Since you seemed to take offense that I dared speak against your beloved Hennessy, yes, I have one of those too. The only difference is that I've learned that there are better, lighter, and more flexible alternatives. 
ETA: HomeSlice, you're a little shorter and lighter than me. You might look into something like a BIAS Weight Weenie (buttinasling.com). I went with the single-layer option and it's under 7 oz. You can always do a double and still keep the weight very manageable. Lots of options for width as well. I also find that the longer hammocks work better for me now. When I started hanging they were all in the 9' range. Now I go for the 11-footers. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 8:34:00 AM EDT
[#46]
settle down Sara,
yes, there are other, more adaptable systems out there, yes, there are lighter systems out there, but there isn't a hammock out there with a better reputation, lighter, and more adaptable than the Hennessy FOR THE MONEY.. After you've done it a few times, you will figure out what you want to change "next time". gear collecting is the embodiment of trial and error. I suggested the Hennessy because he can get into one that will check 80% of the boxes for around $200. the Warbonnet is a great system, it also cost over $300.. some people dont like hanging to sleep, he may figure out that he's one of them.. better to have something that he can re-sell if he wants to. eta: yeah.. I can be a dick.. I can also apologize for being a dick, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:48:22 AM EDT
[#47]
I just use cheap black tulle for a bug net.
3 feet wide, nine feet long, weighs next to nothing. It stays in the bottom of my compression sack unless I need it. There are very few hammocks that can take my weight, so I can't buy the fancy ones. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:56:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
eta: yeah.. I can be a dick.. I can also apologize for being a dick, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. Apology accepted. And I'll offer my own. My son already had my spun up and then I read your post. I've edited mine accordingly. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 5:57:57 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apology accepted. And I'll offer my own. My son already had my spun up and then I read your post. I've edited mine accordingly. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
eta: yeah.. I can be a dick.. I can also apologize for being a dick, I apologize for jumping to conclusions. Apology accepted. And I'll offer my own. My son already had my spun up and then I read your post. I've edited mine accordingly. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. feel free to put the picture back up that said FU Tapered-pin.. didn't hurt my feelings in the least. 
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:29:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Back by request.
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