I understand your point. And im just going to say that im for it. It should be up to us how we choose to carry any firearm.

I would say, the "offending party" posted on Okshooters forum what happened.

Here is the link.

http://okshooters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111447&p=1447465

As someone who supports the 2A, and supports local gunshops, I would ask people to make sure they know the whole story before boycotting. And it appears in this case that it is a classic case of the media misrepresenting one man's opinion as that of the company he works for.

We have been through this before with other local "experts".

"I was misquoted" or " I was taken out of context" doesn't matter to me one bit. Was the guy born yesterday? What does he expect is going to happen when he is interviewed as an "expert" and an employee of xvz gunshop? If he didn't see this coming I don't want his dumbass carrying anything more deadly than a thumbtack.

Geez man. Some people's kids


ETA- I can't get that link to work. Why am I not surprised?

Doesn't work for me either.

Are you surprised either?

this was the post

""Well, out of the blue comes the offender.
I was speaking for myself, after being ambushed by the camera crew, and not for the business. The owner didn't know the crew was coming, nor did I. The question was asked about my opinion and I answered with my opinion.
The TV didn't give the parts about my opinion that folks should, within limits, be allowed to carry a firearm to defend themselves and others against criminals and the assorted crazy.
I don't address 2A rights but I do 1A rights. Those have been thoroughly hashed over during the last two days of ranting and discussing on this thread.
We get caught by cameras occasionally, and anyone who has worked in the public view can testify to that. Opinions are like body parts, everyone has them, some offend others.
As for the chat, ass-eating, discussion of business policy, those have already happened. The funny thing about this is that Fox came into the business a couple of weeks ago for the same interview. They talked to a couple of customers, myself and shot video of someone buying a black gun. The same answers were given and nothing happened.
Those of you who know me, I have served my time dealing with the folks we are trying to protect ourselves from, and that my skills and mindset are the type most would want around should something bad happen.
So, for the short story, sorry to have offended those who think we are anti anything at HO. The only thing that offends us are the rude, the ceiling shooters and the price of everything.
Thanks for your time, and we'll leave a light on for ya.

Oh, I forgot. The one post that said I was one who thought only cops should carry. A majority of them can't shoot that well, so no, that's not what I think.
have a good one ""
     

It doesn't put the genie back in the bottle nor does it remove the impression that those who heard it now think those in law enforcement or the firearms business are against open carry.

I gotta call bullshit to his rebuttal. He is just trying to practice damage control. When Heartland lets him go I might do some more business there, this guy is no better than Zumbo or Petzal in my opinion.  There are a lot of places I can shop that supports our rights, I do not need to support a business that is supporting someone who directly or indirectly is undermining those rights.

 

Here is what  Heartland Outdoors posted on their Facebook page (im am only posting the info I've gathered)

"Heartland Outdoors Oklahoma
Good Morning, Just wanted to start off by saying the statements made by Cleo L. on the Sunday news, were his personal opinions and do not reflect the views of Heartland Outdoors. The store is in favor of "Open Carry".
Yesterday at 10:48am"

This response is so full of fail.

You or Heartland could have declined an interview if you did not feel prepared to represent gun owners.  There is no way that you did not know you would be held up as an "expert". That is in fact what Heartland does with your credentials every day.

The fact that you stated that it was not "in your opinion" tactically sound or that you prefer the element of surprise does nothing to diminish the fact that said opinion is elitist at best and just plain unconstitutional at worst. As a former police officer with many years of service, I think you would have to agree that in certain situations open display of a weapon might indeed be the tactically sound thing.  By allowing such a negatively biased opinion to be aired by an expert you have done gun rights in Oklahoma harm rather than good.

If open carry were to pass you and many others could still choose to carry concealed.  Please do not presume to make my choices for myself and others.  Please attempt to represent law abiding gun owners as just that and not something the public at large should be fear.

Does Heartland still employ Cleo Land?
Because if things go the way he likes, they aren't going to sell as many holsters as they could have.
And they damn sure aren't going to sell me anything.

I appreciate them making this statement.  I am sure Cleo feels like he is being thrown under the bus, BUT they are at least trying to do some damage control.  Maybe in the future they should ask the media to speak to the owners exclusively instead of the hired hands.  Having said that, I still feel like I need to stay out of HO for awhile and see where all this leads.  I am curious if Steve will hold his shoot there.  I am trying not to be too judgemental, but we have got to stand for something.  I choose to think I should have the right to open carry if I feel the need, AND I do believe it would be a deterant to crime.

Putting the shit back in the horse is not easy!

Amazing to see how people can attack someone without any knowledge of that person. To attack and slander Cleo based on what you read in a NEWS article is a litmus test for stupid and man, did it draw out the stupid. It makes me so proud to be an Oklahoman and see my fellows bash someone’s First Amendment Right because they don’t agree with his OPINION on the Second Amendment. He has the right to an opinion. To check this, open up the Bill of Rights, look up the Second Amendment, then go up one. Yah, yup, uh-huh, he IS entitled to his own opinion. Feel free to write him and apologize for your overreacting and acting like a bag-o-asses.

Note he stated, "I PREFER THE ELEMENT OF SUPRISE..." hence PERSONAL O-PIN-ION.

I know Cleo Land, he is not an idiot or a dufus. He was a good Cop, instructor, and leader that proudly served the City of Edmond for over 30 years. His record of selfless service and professionalism is sterling. How many of the people that attacked and slandered him can boast that record of service? Any record of service?

He stated a simple tactical fact, if you are open carry in a line at the bank and a robbery occurs you are going to be quickly identified and you will get your head blown off, probably from behind before you can react. If you are conceal carry you can choose the moment to act. It’s called, say it with me…Tac-tic-al.

Danc46, I was going to stay out until I read your half-brained rant. You have got to be kidding me, can you even tell me how many cops have been ambushed and killed in the last 2 years? How many right here in Oklahoma? Maybe you don’t notice, maybe you don’t care to notice. They get killed BECAUSE they stand out, BECAUSE they carry a gun openly, because they work to defend others. Thank you so much for spitting on their sacrifices to give voice to your agenda. Your disrespect of the sacrifices, the ultimate sacrifices, officers make is disgusting. The world is grey, not black and white, only a fool thinks you can be only "for or against" anything.

Should Americans be able to own and carry guns, yes. Should Americans be running around with open carry guns on their hips in public places, HELL, NO! We have enough chaos in the stretes now, no thanks.

But, hey, feel free to bash my opinion too, maybe I haven’t earned an opinion. I’m just a veteran cop and a disabled Army veteran. Maybe you want to boycott my ebay auctions?

OK genius, tell us how many times you were ambushed while you were a cop!
Using Cleo Land's rational then all cops should not be wearing uniforms or easily identified so they can have the "tactical surprise".
Do you buy into that?
Now, a couple more questions for your expert opinion.
How many times did you fire your handgun in defense of citizens while a cop?
Much less for yourself?
Or did you carry concealed all that time?
If I know one damn thing, it's I can't depend on a cop to defend me when I need one.
If you're so damn intelligent, tell me how many gun store employees have been shot since the Mashburn incident in the early 80s?
NOT ONE BECAUSE MOST HAVE GUNS OPENLY SEEN ON THEIR HIPS!
Open carry allows a one handed pull. IWB  and concealed almost invariably requires a two handed pull.
Why should a citizen be handicapped when required to pull a gun and a cop isn't?

Your opinion is worth EXACTLY the same as mine or anyone elses.

Oh boy.
Let me help you understand this- he is being held up as an expert, and as a cop.So this has to be how all experts and cops think, right?  Analogy- What he did is like a whore coming out against prostitution and then being surprised when the other whores want to beat her behind.

You REALLY want to have a dick measuring contest? Please.

You know I was on my sofa when the story hit and this C. L. painted a big target on me, like I have no Idea what I`m doing, you Sir don`t know me and have know idea of my skill with a firearm ,  you make a statement in the press you ought to know better
and should have guarded your words as this has Bit you in ass,you said it now deal with it.  Heartland Outdoors has one options to save face.

Before YOU start speaking and giving us your OPINION, you should try exercising your Google Fu. Because MOST police officers are not killed in the line of duty due to shootouts in the street with bad guys. Most police officers are killed going to calls or during traffic stops due to another motorist hitting them .




















 

1. Your lack of common sense is truely amazing.

2. I'll just throw the most recent at you: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100830_11_0_AnOkla661456

3. Kick the ignorance bug, your suffering from romanticising the past, it's called history, read it, you live in Oklahoma for God's sake, read about the 1880's and why they started taking guns away from people while they were in town. (i.e. lots of pissed off people all wearing guns=lots of dead people)

4.Yah, I've done stuff, but I am not an elitist, it just seems that way because your life has been uncommon and self-serving.

BOTTOM LINE, YOUR BITCHING ABOUT US HAVING AN OPINION THAT DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOUR OPINION. GET REAL.

If you believe in the 1A and the 2A, then you realize you have consequences if you exercise them.
You are free to say whatever you want, but you pay the price for saying what you think.
And if you want to curtail 2A rights while making money off the 2A, get ready to pay the price for it.
Even a doofus should realize that.
But an arrogant elitist wouldn't.

Dan ,












 

1. Are you simple-headed? We are not talking about gun ownership or even carry, we are talking about, follow me here, open carry.

2. The big point here is don't slander people just  because they don't agree with you. Don't crap on your cops because you were betrayed by your reps, we didn't take crap away from you, in fact we are some of the only Americans that are striped of our rights just because of our job..

3. Really.....I am trampling your God given rights....really, I did that. Wow, and all this time serving I thought I was defending your rights. You ungrateful Pr*ck. The only one that striped you of your rights were YOUR elected officials.

4. Don't piss at me about the constitution, I've read it, I know it, and I've been defending it my entire adult life.

Finally, one of you gets it.

Damn guy, his opinion was singled out as representitive of the LEO and Gunshop "experts". Thats what makes this different. If you can't see or understand that, I give up.

YOU..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................The point



You are an elitist. Exactly the kind of people that I'd rather not have working as cops.

I can tell you were one hell of a cop.
Answer the damn question I put to you earlier.
Why should a cop carry openly and a citizen not?
If you're drinking, I suggest you put down the bottle.
Keep your language civil if you want to discuss the issue.

Signal22 seems to be the type that is the problem in the gun community. He thinks he know what is best because of his former profession. We are just the little people that he wrote tickets for and wrote the reports after the crime was committed. He was minutes away when seconds counted.

Signal22 has a right to his opinion. But like many opinions, his is wrong. There are many that have opinions that guns should be banned and 2A should be done away with. Their opinions are wrong also and I submit the CL and signal22 are just as wrong!

I would like to draw your attention to the one fact about all of this.

Signal22 has no expertise on the subjuct of open carry.
Mr. Land has no expertise on the subjuct of open carry.

Reason being is quite simple. Neither were law enforcement in a state that has open carry. So their speculation is unfounded and should be dismissed as the nonsense it is.
The only oepn carry experts in the law enforcement field will be those who have experience performing law enforcement in an open carry state.

ETA -

Holy crap, I have to agree, I had to go back and read what signal22 posted and... damn. if hes a cop... remind me to stay out of his patrol route or he might strip me of my CCW, knife, shoes and maybe even my voice box
How can a cop say open carry doesnt work when vermont and what, 10 other states allow for it and have a what? Next to nothing of a crime rate. Gun shops have no crime in there because, what? Open carried guns. idk who signal22 is but im starting to think hes more of a signal 8 who needs to take a 10-45

Talked to a retired police officer I know. He said it takes the "edge off" of the police having to face someone that is openly armed. And most don't like that.
It's tough enough having to deal with the public but dealing with someone that has a gun on their hip and is antagonistic wires them up even tighter.
It's this way - it makes a police officer's job more stressful but it makes a citizen feel more secure and  better protected.
If it doesn't pass this legislative session, that tells us that the majority of our legislators think the average Okie is too immature, irresponsible, and too stupid to carry a gun in the open for self defense.
Or they think we're going to have shoot outs in the street.
It's really that bad!

One thing I've always wondered is can this be compared to people carrying knives?  I carry a pocket folder everywhere I go.  I've been paying attention today about who I've seen with a knife in plain view somewhere.  In my three classes I'd say a little under half of the guys had pocket folders.  I know one of my supervisors keeps one in his pocket out of sight, a woman I work with keeps one in her purse, her fiance stopped by to drop something off and he had a knife on his pocket.  While around town just doing my job I saw 5 men with knives on their pocket.  I have no way of knowing how many I missed or were out of sight.  I'd also like to point out that I haven't heard of any stabbings in this town since I've been here (minus when my knife slipped while opening a plastic package a couple of days ago, it wasn't deep ).  I've pissed off a handful of guys since I first stepped foot on this campus.  Those same guys have been behind me, whether just walking around, sat behind me in a class, or just milling around.  At any point they could have stabbed me.  Before I was 21, and therefore no way of having a CCL, they could pretty much guarantee I wasn't carrying anything to shoot them with.  I was pissed at those guys too.  I never considered stabbing them.  

It is legal in this state to walk around with a knife on your pocket.  I don't know the state's legal limit but this university has a policy not allowing anything with a blade longer than 4".  I "open carry" my knife with a 3.5" long blade constantly.  I don't recklessly or childishly go around stabbing people I don't like, and neither do any other sane individuals.  Yes, firearms are another step up in lethality when used, but the same people who are mature enough to know when the use of a knife is justified and when it is not will also know when the use of a firearm is justified and when it is not.

I don't know about that,

seem to recall reading a article once (no link) that stated more people die of knife wounds per year than from gunshots.

As far as a knife goes, Oklahoma has some really strange and ignorant laws.
My MIL or FIL can't carry a billy club, spring billy, big knife, or brass knuckles under any circumstances but they can carry a gun with an SDA permit.
The law pretty much limits them to shooting some SOB instead of giving him a permanent squint or limp.

That one always cracked me up too!

Your crack is always up when Rat is around!

Nden: True, but it's not a rampant problem.  I don't see news headlines claiming stabbing statistics every other night.  The vast majority of citizens have a sense of what is necessary and when to walk away from a situation that doesn't need to get worse.

Wait a minute... I was told yesterday after being called a bad word that we would all be gunning each other down like 1880

 

just because the media doesn't report it, doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't happen very often

modern day downtown Sopher, or is that Frogville, can't remember which one has electric run to it yet

 

I see you've visited both towns/communities, neither would be a bad place to live if it weren't for all the hickory nuts living there.

At first I thought the photo was Vici...

It's Ninnekah!

could be, I've only seen it on the tv and they didn't show that part of main street.

Sounds  like you and Cleo need to sit and think about who pays the f***in bills around here... The PEOPLE.

The people elect representatives to go to the capitol, represent their constituents' beliefs and interests and conduct legislative business accordingly, then Police and other agencies enforce the law that was made indirectly by the PEOPLE.

Not the other way around...

No one bashed his right to be stupid and say stupid things, we just bashed the stupidity and the stupid things that were said...

Frankly this is an example of why I don't really trust many people who say they're serving and act like they are in such a bad way when they are pushing back against the people who pay their salary and say that we are too damn stupid, immature and dependent on .gov to hold our hands and wipe our asses to know what's right, what's wrong and when to use force in what situation to defend our freaking lives...

I honestly don't care what his opinion is, but it was pretty dumb for him to answer the question especially from a business standpoint as a representative of the company employing him...

Maybe you should actually look at crime rates in open carry states and think before you speak

Sir,

We could talk about the issue of open carry and most likely find common ground especially in the tactical sense but.....

The fact the people here take issue with what Cleo stated in an interview with the press that was published does not infringe on his First Amendment rights. He can say what he wants but words have consequences. That is the responsibility that goes with the right. He entered into the public debate on this issue when he spoke to the press and so he will now have to deal with the consequences of what he said, good or bad.

Tell me, when you were LE, if a member of the press asked you about a possible controversial issue would you have answered or referred them to your departments public relations rep..?
The company involved should have a policy in place to deal with this type of issue and prevent an controversy that could affect their business.
They have an employee that spoke to the press as their employee and they now must deal with the results. Good or bad.

Then you take a hypocritical position telling others here that they should not speak their minds and you talk down to them ,"it’s called, say it with me…Tac-tic-al."
Everyone here knows the up side and down side to open carry. If open carry is allowed, it is their responsibility to deal with that issue. They will deal with the consequences.
There is no "all inclusive answer".

I have the up most respect for any LE or Military, current or former (Been there) but in the debate on the rights of a citizen, that service does not elevate your opinion to carry any more weight than anyone else here.

Give me facts and an intelligent debate. Not emotion and drama. I can get that from my wife.
ETA - Or Dan..

Survivor gets a pilots license!!!

I never knew a person had to have a license to get thrown off the top of a building, or stack firewood.

Agreed

100% true.





But then no one said my job was supposed to be easy.





I personally think open carry can be (at times) tactically unwise, but I'm 100% behind passing open carry in OK.