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Posted: 6/18/2011 12:56:45 PM EDT
[#1]
All or none is the best way to look at it
Keep the thread on track and it stays open to post ideas |
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Posted: 6/18/2011 1:36:36 PM EDT
[#2]
This won't be decided here on arfcom, it will live or die based on what the committee members think of the bill. The ffl language can be a bargaining point during committee negotiations.
Law and sausages, folks. No one should see either actually made, but don't lose sight of the actual goal. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/18/2011 6:12:36 PM EDT
[#3]
there was a DNR suppressor bill that passed the legislature this year that got rid of the sunset, dunno if dayton signed it though.
the contractor sharpshooters that the DNR hires are part of the federal gov't, i forget which agency Dept of Ag? or something, but they have the federal credentials to possess in this state. |
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Posted: 6/18/2011 8:51:06 PM EDT
[#4]
I do not think it even make it out of committee. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/revisor/pages/search_status/status_detail.php?b=House&f=HF0956&ssn=0&y=2011#H
It is not on the list of bills passed either. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/?view=session&year=2011&type=0 Not a bad thing really. The bill would have eliminated the sunset provision and limit of ten silencers. This means the DNR is probably still seeking a bill to allow them to use silencers next year. This is where we jump in with a new bill that eases restrictions for everyone where registered silencers are concerned. I wrote to Representative Hilty and Senator Lourey but no reply yet. Has anyone else written? Does anyone have a friend or contact in the DNR that can give their opinion on civilian possession of silencers? Ranb |
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Posted: 6/19/2011 1:22:24 PM EDT
[#5]
I'll be sending out letters to my rep and senator this week. I've got a couple of guys that I work with that I'm going to see if they'll do the same as they live in other districts.
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Posted: 6/20/2011 11:12:04 AM EDT
[#6]
I heard back from one of my reps via email:
Mr. BC98, Thank you for your email. I am a 2nd amendment supporter and voted for all the pro-2nd bills this year. I will run this up the flag poll and see if anyone has any thoughts. I will also keep this in mind and will see what we can do with it next year. Thank you again and keep in touch! Tim Rep. Tim Sanders 449 State Office Building 100 Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. Saint Paul, Minnesota 55155 651-296-4226 I am following up with him and providing some specific talking points that would allow him to educate his fellow legislators on the issue and offered up a face to face meet with him or any of the other legislators he meets with. I also specifically asked him his feelings on sponsoring a bill. Please continue to contact your representatives. The more people who let them know that this is a pertinent issue with no real downside to them, the more likely we will find legislators who will step up and sponsor/support a bill. |
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Posted: 6/20/2011 12:50:54 PM EDT
[#7]
I think a map like this could be helpful, esp if the color scheme was changed around to something a little more encouraging.
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Posted: 6/20/2011 5:54:22 PM EDT
[#8]
There's always this map on the AAC website:
AAC map I had found another one a while ago that showed all of the free states as green but it has not been updated to include KS or MO. |
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Posted: 6/20/2011 6:28:57 PM EDT
[#9]
tim sanders is my rep as well. i can email him as well about this, so there are multiple people hitting him up...
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Posted: 6/20/2011 6:52:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
tim sanders is my rep as well. i can email him as well about this, so there are multiple people hitting him up... Good idea and thank you. |
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Posted: 6/20/2011 9:39:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
tim sanders is my rep as well. i can email him as well about this, so there are multiple people hitting him up... Please write a letter and send it via the post office instead. I have found that this works much better than e-mail unless you already have established contact with your legislator on a certain issue. Thanks. Ranb |
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Posted: 6/20/2011 9:44:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Upon further reading of the MN statutes, I see that I have errored in my thought process. A new bill needs to be something like this.
Add in the underlined words, removed those words struck through. 609.66 DANGEROUS WEAPONS.
Subd. 1a.Felony crimes; silencers prohibited; reckless discharge. (a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision 1h, whoever does any of the following is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced as provided in paragraph (b): (1) sells or has in possession any device designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm unless it is registered and legally owned in accordance with federal law; Completely delete 609.66 subdivision 1h as it contains requirements that would be unnecessary if State law is brought in line with federal law. Amend 97B.031 to read; Subd. 4.Silencers prohibited. Except as provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1h, a A person may not own or possess a silencer for a firearm or a firearm equipped to have a silencer attached unless it is registered and legally owned in accordance with federal law. I still have much to learn about MN stuff. Ranb |
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Posted: 6/21/2011 3:31:17 PM EDT
[#13]
The narrative on the AAC link is an excellent one to inform the uninformed. It shows the state in comparison to current nation-wide legal ownership pattern indicating the state is in the vast minority vs the rest of the nation. It outlines the federal registration process and that it specifically involves LEO approval, a federal background check, the fact that suppressors can only be purchased through specialized licensed dealers. There's ample paerwork and it's a time consuming and expensive process.
If AAC would allow that narrative to be used together with the red & grey map (the current status) it would make a great educational/lobbying item to share with legistlators and DNR. My .02 |
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Posted: 6/22/2011 5:51:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Were we still seeking data showimg/disproving suppressor use in crimes?
If so. would it be a good second step to contrast that with other relatively silent methods of crime...for example, bows? |
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Posted: 6/22/2011 6:54:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
The narrative on the AAC link is an excellent one to inform the uninformed. It shows the state in comparison to current nation-wide legal ownership pattern indicating the state is in the vast minority vs the rest of the nation. It outlines the federal registration process and that it specifically involves LEO approval, a federal background check, the fact that suppressors can only be purchased through specialized licensed dealers. There's ample paerwork and it's a time consuming and expensive process. If AAC would allow that narrative to be used together with the red & grey map (the current status) it would make a great educational/lobbying item to share with legistlators and DNR. My .02 I sent an email to AAC asking their permission to use this information and will let everyone know their response when I get it. |
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Posted: 6/22/2011 8:27:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Do we want to put some sort of a action fund together?
I am sure many of us have more "money than time/skills/knowledge" when it comes to getting somethign like this done. The Kickster project might be helpful. (link) It allows you to set a funding goal, and the money is only collected once the goal is reached. For example, we determine that all of the things that we will need to do to effect a change in state law will cost $5,000. 1) We create a project that has a goal of $5,000.
2) People/Companies make donations (via Amazon's Flexible Payment System (link)) 3) At any time an individual can cancel their pledge. 4) Once the goal is reached, everyone's credit cards are charged. 5) If the goal is not reached within 60 days, all pledges are canceled. |
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Posted: 6/22/2011 12:51:59 PM EDT
[#17]
This is what I think we need.
1. A sponsor that is willing to push the bill. This means he or she leans on committee members to get the bill a hearing and attends the hearing to support it. 2. MN residents that are willing to set up appointments with their Senator and Representative to tell them why the bill needs to become law. A face to face meeting beats letters and e-mail big time. 3. MN residents that are willing to show up to committee hearings and speak out in support of the bill. This is important beucase if no one shows up and an anti-gun individual or a committee member says something stupid like "silencers are illegal" or "silencer have no sporting purpose" we need a level headed and articulate person to counter these arguments with the truth. If MN committee hearings are anything like those in WA, then it is a simple matter to show up and speak. 4. People who are willing to make phone calls and write letters (not e-mail) to their legislators. Yes it does take money. A person has to pay a phone bill and lick stamps. The most expensive is taking time off from work to travel to St Paul to attend committee hearings. Hiring a lobbyist is not required when all of the decisions take place in the state. Unless a person lives north of Duluth, the travel to the capital is not too bad. Ranb |
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Posted: 6/22/2011 5:39:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Do we want to put some sort of a action fund together? I am sure many of us have more "money than time/skills/knowledge" when it comes to getting somethign like this done. The Kickster project might be helpful. (link) It allows you to set a funding goal, and the money is only collected once the goal is reached. For example, we determine that all of the things that we will need to do to effect a change in state law will cost $5,000. 1) We create a project that has a goal of $5,000.
2) People/Companies make donations (via Amazon's Flexible Payment System (link)) 3) At any time an individual can cancel their pledge. 4) Once the goal is reached, everyone's credit cards are charged. 5) If the goal is not reached within 60 days, all pledges are canceled. I'm willing to contribute with a USPS money order. |
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Posted: 6/22/2011 7:21:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do we want to put some sort of a action fund together? I am sure many of us have more "money than time/skills/knowledge" when it comes to getting somethign like this done. The Kickster project might be helpful. (link) It allows you to set a funding goal, and the money is only collected once the goal is reached. For example, we determine that all of the things that we will need to do to effect a change in state law will cost $5,000. 1) We create a project that has a goal of $5,000.
2) People/Companies make donations (via Amazon's Flexible Payment System (link)) 3) At any time an individual can cancel their pledge. 4) Once the goal is reached, everyone's credit cards are charged. 5) If the goal is not reached within 60 days, all pledges are canceled. I'm willing to contribute with a USPS money order. Same here. I don't have much, but I can toss some coin in the hat. Ranb, tomorrow I will be calling my local sheriff again to see what info he has for me regarding any crimes committed involving silencers. I don't know to what extent he searched, whether it was local (county) or state wide. Either way, I'm sure he will simply give me an earful of what ever he found out. I know that having a document in hand will be 100% more effective, and I will request that as well. My point: would it be a good idea for there to be a small group of people to collect and hold on to this type of data? I'm not volunteering...just asking. I'm not that organized. 
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Posted: 6/23/2011 8:05:01 AM EDT
[#20]
At what point do we begin to run this ship silent?
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Posted: 6/23/2011 9:25:20 AM EDT
[#21]
By running the ship silent do you mean keeping data to ourselves? I think we need two things. Lots of support by people interested in seeing the silencer ban eased and a consistant message. If we keep things to ourselves, then we may be making it harder for us.
I am willing to collect and retain silencer crime data for us. Ranb |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 10:05:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
By running the ship silent do you mean keeping data to ourselves? I think we need two things. Lots of support by people interested in seeing the silencer ban eased and a consistant message. If we keep things to ourselves, then we may be making it harder for us. I am willing to collect and retain silencer crime data for us. Ranb I mean take this discussion out of the public eye. There are several rabid anti-gun folks in Minnesota, and surely they know to come here and get the skinny. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 1:26:56 PM EDT
[#23]
By taking the discussiont out of the public eye, doesn't that give the message to those same anti-gun people that we are trying to do something subversive? All we are doing is trying to bring MN in line with the vast majority of other states (not to mention Federal law that has existed for a very long time). By keeping this discussion open and providing factual data, we can at least educate anyone who has questions about the legalities and ownership of suppressors in general.
Just sayin'... |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 1:32:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
By taking the discussiont out of the public eye, doesn't that give the message to those same anti-gun people that we are trying to do something subversive? All we are doing is trying to bring MN in line with the vast majority of other states (not to mention Federal law that has existed for a very long time). By keeping this discussion open and providing factual data, we can at least educate anyone who has questions about the legalities and ownership of suppressors in general. Just sayin'... I would agree in any state other than this one. But you do have a good point and its something to at least think about. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 1:37:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
By taking the discussiont out of the public eye, doesn't that give the message to those same anti-gun people that we are trying to do something subversive? All we are doing is trying to bring MN in line with the vast majority of other states (not to mention Federal law that has existed for a very long time). By keeping this discussion open and providing factual data, we can at least educate anyone who has questions about the legalities and ownership of suppressors in general. Just sayin'... Do football teams keep their playbook wide open for the other team? If they don't, does that mean they cheat? But yea, I think there certainly needs to be a public information & perception war. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 5:06:38 PM EDT
[#26]
I don't believe we have any plays, that have yet to be played.
Unless we come up with a new one, there's no sense in hiding it. |
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Posted: 6/24/2011 6:51:27 AM EDT
[#27]
What political action committee's does MN have surrounding gun rights?
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Posted: 6/25/2011 10:00:27 AM EDT
[#28]
Saw this posted in GD. Getting ahold of that report might be able to help you guys.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1199823 |
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Posted: 6/27/2011 6:41:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Saw this posted in GD. Getting ahold of that report might be able to help you guys. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1199823 RyanC, Good catch. I'm going to look into picking up a copy of this report and possibly contact the OP of that thread for some info. BC |
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Posted: 6/27/2011 8:23:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Do we want to put some sort of a action fund together? I am sure many of us have more "money than time/skills/knowledge" when it comes to getting somethign like this done. The Kickster project might be helpful. (link) It allows you to set a funding goal, and the money is only collected once the goal is reached. For example, we determine that all of the things that we will need to do to effect a change in state law will cost $5,000. 1) We create a project that has a goal of $5,000. 2) People/Companies make donations (via Amazon's Flexible Payment System (link)) 3) At any time an individual can cancel their pledge. 4) Once the goal is reached, everyone's credit cards are charged. 5) If the goal is not reached within 60 days, all pledges are canceled. Hold your wallet for now, lets get the horse in front of the cart first and see how far it can go without a push |
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Posted: 6/27/2011 8:28:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: What political action committee's does MN have surrounding gun rights? Not a single one, pretty messed up wouldn't you say |
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Posted: 6/28/2011 6:27:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What political action committee's does MN have surrounding gun rights? Not a single one, pretty messed up wouldn't you say GOCRA is a PAC. http://www.gocra-mn.org/ But the last inclination from them is that they support it, but want to move other thigns forward first. (Additionally, they are not liked around here for various reasons.) |
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Posted: 6/28/2011 3:23:41 PM EDT
[#33]
.. |
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Posted: 6/28/2011 6:38:47 PM EDT
[#34]
I keep forgetting to call my sheriff back to get any crime info. I will try to remember tomorrow. Sorry for dropping the ball...
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Posted: 6/28/2011 6:54:35 PM EDT
[#35]
I just heard back from my Senator, Pam Wolf. She indicated that she really had no formal position regarding suppressors but was willing to learn more and seemed open to introducing a bill. She admitted that she didn't know much about suppressors yet.
On a sidenote, it was refreshing to see that she had not already formed an opinion on the issue despite not having a knowledge base about it. |
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Posted: 6/28/2011 7:10:08 PM EDT
[#36]
I'd be all for lobbying to get the right to own a suppressor returned to the people of MN but do you think Dayton would even so much as consider signing a bill like this?
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Posted: 6/28/2011 7:19:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
I just heard back from my Senator, Pam Wolf. She indicated that she really had no formal position regarding suppressors but was willing to learn more and seemed open to introducing a bill. She admitted that she didn't know much about suppressors yet. On a sidenote, it was refreshing to see that she had not already formed an opinion on the issue despite not having a knowledge base about it. Being open minded is great!! Hopefully she can be educated by the right people! |
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Posted: 6/29/2011 5:52:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I'd be all for lobbying to get the right to own a suppressor returned to the people of MN but do you think Dayton would even so much as consider signing a bill like this? I highly doubt he would... Not to mention, our state didn't ban suppressors through normal Legislative channels. It's not like law makers whipped up a SPECIFIC bill to ban suppressors in Minnesota. It was an old DNR 'Regulation' that was foisted upon our state with no legislative debate, and therefore no representative opposition. Kind of like when the ATF issues a 'ruling' with no case law to support it claiming that X and Y are illegal, but Z is okay. Like their half-assed definition of "Sporting Purposes" for shotguns. In 2008 or 2009 (I forget which year), the DNR made a similar 'Ruling' or 'Regulation' which makes it illegal to be carrying Night Vision while also carrying a firearm... Another wonderful attempt to 'curb poaching'... 
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Posted: 6/29/2011 6:25:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Being open minded is great!! Hopefully she can be educated by the right people! Yup! Even if they don't support it, if we can get them on the record that helps. If you don't know who supports you, then do here: District Finder Enter your address and then click on the people listed for "MN House" and "MN Senate." Shoot them both an email. It will only take a few seconds. Make sure you are brief, make sure you include your home address, and make sure you ask for their response. They are (presumably) very busy right now with the Budget issues... so it might take longer than normal for a response. |
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Posted: 6/29/2011 6:27:31 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd be all for lobbying to get the right to own a suppressor returned to the people of MN but do you think Dayton would even so much as consider signing a bill like this? I highly doubt he would... <...> Dayton will do one of two things: Sign or Veto. If he signs, GREAT. If he vetos, then we at least know that we have a lot of supporters who already know the issue, and will be likely to support it again in another session. |
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Posted: 6/29/2011 8:36:31 AM EDT
[#41]
This morning, I heard back from Rep. Garofalo (36B (Lakeville/Farmington area.))
He seems receptive. Do we have a informational "pamphlet?" Something short, simple and sweet. I will take this on as my task. And I will be starting a new thread for input/progress. (link) At some point I will need assistance of copy editors and graphic designers. My goal is to have a rough draft completed by the end of the week. |
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Posted: 6/29/2011 9:04:02 AM EDT
[#42]
I have $10 for anyone that will purchase a domain and host a website.
We need somewhere to send people to get "more information." Charts, graphs, maps, links to studies. |
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Posted: 6/29/2011 9:57:44 AM EDT
[#43]
You can do that on Google Blogs for free. Just start a blog.
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Posted: 6/29/2011 9:59:10 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
You can do that on Google Blogs for free. Just start a blog. Like I said, I'll give you $10 to do it. (including getting us a domain.) |
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Posted: 6/29/2011 10:21:35 AM EDT
[#45]
IM sent
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Posted: 6/29/2011 11:38:22 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
You can do that on Google Blogs for free. Just start a blog. Awesome, easy, done. Thank you to mcnielsen (he set it up, not me.) http://mnsuppressors.blogspot.com/ We should probably find a couple of people who want to be authors in charge. |
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Posted: 6/29/2011 1:50:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: You can do that on Google Blogs for free. Just start a blog. Awesome, easy, done. Thank you. http://mnsuppressors.blogspot.com/ We should probably find a couple of people who want to be authors in charge. 
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Posted: 6/29/2011 3:23:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Being open minded is great!! Hopefully she can be educated by the right people! Yup! Even if they don't support it, if we can get them on the record that helps. If you don't know who supports you, then do here: District Finder Enter your address and then click on the people listed for "MN House" and "MN Senate." Shoot them both an email. It will only take a few seconds. Make sure you are brief, make sure you include your home address, and make sure you ask for their response. They are (presumably) very busy right now with the Budget issues... so it might take longer than normal for a response. Great. I am on it! |
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Posted: 6/29/2011 4:49:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Recreational Firearm Use and Hearing Loss (link)
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Posted: 6/29/2011 7:01:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The narrative on the AAC link is an excellent one to inform the uninformed. It shows the state in comparison to current nation-wide legal ownership pattern indicating the state is in the vast minority vs the rest of the nation. It outlines the federal registration process and that it specifically involves LEO approval, a federal background check, the fact that suppressors can only be purchased through specialized licensed dealers. There's ample paerwork and it's a time consuming and expensive process. If AAC would allow that narrative to be used together with the red & grey map (the current status) it would make a great educational/lobbying item to share with legistlators and DNR. My .02 I sent an email to AAC asking their permission to use this information and will let everyone know their response when I get it. Have you heard anything from AAC yet? Being able to use their narrative is the foundation for an informational pamplet. |
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