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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:27:06 PM EDT
I have a Springfield Prodigy with a Trijicon SRO that I've been using for 3 gun. It only has about 1600rds through it, but the optic plate has come loose for the second time now. The optic was still tight on the plate, but the plate came loose from the slide. Everything was properly degreased and torqued with Fix-It Sticks, and I used blue medium strength Loc-Tite both times. I'm thinking about using red Loc-Tite this time around on just the plate to slide screws. I'll still use blue on the optic mounting screws. Appreciate any input / opinions on this.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:41:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Having had an optic fly off & hit me in my face & draw blood because the S&W supplied red loctite screws snapped off in the slide, please use blue not red.
Also, I switched to the C&H metal plate as well instead of reusing the factory plastic plate just to eliminate all bs. I sent it back to S&W & they rectified it FWIW |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:54:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CJFirefly]
[#2]
Maybe just try putting nail polish and then witness marks on the screw heads, or did you do that already?
How many ft lbs are you tightening the plate to? |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 7:55:24 PM EDT
[#3]
The optic plate I got from Kimber came with Red Loc-tite with instructions that said to use Red Loc-tite. It's up to you.
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:19:49 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't think witness marks would help much in this case since the plate screws are under the optic and not visible. Springfield calls for 25 inch/lbs on the plate screws, which is pretty tight for a small screw.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJFirefly: Maybe just try putting nail polish and then witness marks on the screw heads, or did you do that already? How many ft lbs are you tightening the plate to? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 8:21:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike92GT: I don't think witness marks would help much in this case since the plate screws are under the optic and not visible. Springfield calls for 25 inch/lbs on the plate screws, which is pretty tight for a small screw. Sorry, yeah I read that wrong. That is a lot of inch lbs. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:15:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MK318]
[#6]
Originally Posted By Mike92GT: I have a Springfield Prodigy with a Trijicon SRO that I've been using for 3 gun. It only has about 1600rds through it, but the optic plate has come loose for the second time now. The optic was still tight on the plate, but the plate came loose from the slide. Everything was properly degreased and torqued with Fix-It Sticks, and I used blue medium strength Loc-Tite both times. I'm thinking about using red Loc-Tite this time around on just the plate to slide screws. I'll still use blue on the optic mounting screws. Appreciate any input / opinions on this. Blue loctite only there are different types of blue loctite. I use the 29513 high temp, med strength This. Do not use the cheap blue loctite that comes with a lot of mounts it just doesn’t hold up and a lot of times it is the cheapest thread locker the company can find to cut cost. Do not use red unless you like spending either time or money to have broken screws drilled out. I will typically go a couple of inch lbs past the recommended. Nothing crazy just 3-4 max. I use witness marks and check the screws periodically every few thousand rounds. This is more difficult with an optic plate since you are removing the optic and then having to rezero, and if you have an optic like the SRO, it kind of defeats the purpose of having a top mounted battery. This is why I am starting to move towards direct mount optics and more specifically optics like the Aimpoint Acro on a slide milled for the Acro, Eliminating a failure point and since it uses a cross bolt screw, it is less likely to come lose. I like the modularity of optic plates but there are a few downsides to them. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/14/2024 9:28:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DOE]
[#7]
Had the same issue with the same platform, but with RM06. After getting gun back from SA for a warranty issue (screw snapped off) shot 200 rounds only to find my groups drifting. Checked the RMR to plate, which was solid, but loose plate to gun. You'd think SA would apply loctite...nope.
Took apart and applied blue, let sit over night and the next day, re-zero. After 300 rounds, same issue. I then used red loctite as I was set on RM06. Let it set overnight and shot 100 rounds. Still tight. Ran out of time to put more rounds downrange. Then moved on to a different platform. Will come back later to re-confirm when I'm bored. Came to the realization that 2011s don't do anything more than my G19.5. With the G19 MOS, I can run suppressed, lighter, same or more capacity. Not so much without spending more $$$ on fitted threaded barrel for 2011. IMHO   
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Posted: 5/14/2024 10:59:55 PM EDT
[#8]
25 in lbs is too much.
15 is plenty. Use loctite 243, it’s the oil tolerant one that doesn’t need primer. Works far better than 242 for this application. |
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Posted: 5/14/2024 11:40:22 PM EDT
[#9]
I’m having Deja Vu. I swear we just did this.
Don’t ever use red on a firearm; it’s basically permanent. For small screws like on optics, you want purple, not blue. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:30:10 AM EDT
[#10]
I use red loctite on everything that absolutely, positively can't come loose. If I want to remove it, I either use a propane torch (for stuff like gas block set screws) or I'll hold the tip of a soldering iron to the screw (for smaller fasteners) until the loctitw gets soft enough to remove.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 12:54:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Use Vibra-Tite instead.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 1:28:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: W_E_G]
[#12]
One trick for heating little screws is to utilize some sacrificial bits, heated red hot, to heat the screw you wish to loosen.
Heating the bit red hot will destroy the temper of the bit. Which is OK, because the bit is only being used as a heat-transfer device. Hold the sacrificial bit in a pair of $6 Harbor Freight needle-nose vise-grip pliers, while heating the sacrificial bit with a torch. When the bit is RED HOT, stick the bit into the the head of the screw you wish to loosen. Repeat this sequence enough times that the screw to be loosened is hot enough to melt any Loctite. This method allows you to keep flame away from your optic. If you have a SOLDERING IRON, you may be able to place the tip of the iron on the screw to be loosened. This accomplishes the same effect as the SACRIFICIAL BIT method. Have a well-dressed, correct driver at the ready to loosen the screw before the screw cools, and the Loctite re-sets. Patience and persistence with heat-application will avoid snapping small screws. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 5:48:03 AM EDT
[#13]
Thanks. I think my issues are somewhat specific to the Prodigy. I've been doing some reading and it seems that a lot of people have had issues keeping the plate from coming loose. I have plenty of other pistols with optics that have been fine with blue Loc-Tite and 15 in/lbs.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DOE: Had the same issue with the same platform, but with RM06. After getting gun back from SA for a warranty issue (screw snapped off) shot 200 rounds only to find my groups drifting. Checked the RMR to plate, which was solid, but loose plate to gun. You'd think SA would apply loctite...nope. Took apart and applied blue, let sit over night and the next day, re-zero. After 300 rounds, same issue. I then used red loctite as I was set on RM06. Let it set overnight and shot 100 rounds. Still tight. Ran out of time to put more rounds downrange. Then moved on to a different platform. Will come back later to re-confirm when I'm bored. Came to the realization that 2011s don't do anything more than my G19.5. With the G19 MOS, I can run suppressed, lighter, same or more capacity. Not so much without spending more $$$ on fitted threaded barrel for 2011. IMHO https://i.imgur.com/5tzCiAe.jpg?1 https://i.imgur.com/VTfl1bk.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Ri9ZwUe.jpg |
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 7:06:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mike92GT: Thanks. I think my issues are somewhat specific to the Prodigy. I've been doing some reading and it seems that a lot of people have had issues keeping the plate from coming loose. I have plenty of other pistols with optics that have been fine with blue Loc-Tite and 15 in/lbs. Same here. Also tried VC3...same result, hence red for plate to slide. Blue or VC3 for optic to plate [no issues staying on tight]. Again, didn't push past the magic 200-300 rounds. All that $$$ on ammo to re-zero again. 
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:37:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Might depend on where your battery is when it is time to replace.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 9:40:39 AM EDT
[#16]
I'd not use red Loctite on optic to plate or plate to slide screws.
If blue will not achieve what needs to happen something else needs remedied. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 10:55:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Use purple 222. It’s designed for small threaded screws like optic screws.
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Posted: 5/15/2024 11:36:33 AM EDT
[#18]
I generally agree with this, I rarely use red on anything. But this is kind of a last resort. The plate has come loose twice now after just 600rds or so. And purple is low strength, so I would think it would be a downgrade from the blue that I've been using. Only other thing I could try is some red or green between the plate and side to bed them together.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BuddyChryst: I’m having Deja Vu. I swear we just did this. Don’t ever use red on a firearm; it’s basically permanent. For small screws like on optics, you want purple, not blue. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/15/2024 7:53:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DOE]
[#19]
Another solution I looked into would be to mill out a larger hole/screw combo to the same depth for the plate to slide.
 I also dropped red onto the plate. The funny thing is... the cover plate never had an issue with the same round count. |
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Posted: 5/15/2024 8:05:34 PM EDT
[#20]
You can probably get away with using red on the plate since it doesn’t really need to be removed. The problem is when it needs to be removed it is going to be difficult and potentially costly since breaking smaller screws like that is a real possibility. The adapter plate I had to use to convert my X-Carry from a R1 footprint to an RMR footprint is red loctited because I had to have the slide milled for the adapter plate and the adapter plate has the rear sight installed on it. I don’t ever plan on having to remove the plate. Since this was a one off custom set up I rolled the dice. The plate came with some significant recoil bosses. It is a CHWPS plate and they did the mill work and Cerakote on the slide.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 10:30:39 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Marksman14: 25 in lbs is too much. 15 is plenty. Use loctite 243, it’s the oil tolerant one that doesn’t need primer. Works far better than 242 for this application. I’m quoting myself because there is so much shitty information being posted here that my head is spinning. Do not use purple loctite. Degrease all surfaces with acetone, KG3 or equivalent. Get a torque wrench. Use genuine loctite 243. Seriously, putting optics on duty firearms is literally part of my job. Between battery swaps and initial installations, I’m north of 100 guns now. I’ve never had one come loose with 243. I have with 242 and VC3. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but 243 thus far has been the ticket. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/16/2024 11:52:43 AM EDT
[#22]
Old 242 set aside and new 243 ordered for my new optic that just arrived, thanks.
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USA
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Posted: 5/16/2024 12:19:50 PM EDT
[#23]
I had the same issue with my Prodigy. I used this Permatex orange a long with the max torque for the plate screws. It has not come loose since.
I tried blue several times and it still came loose even when increasing the torque |
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Posted: 5/16/2024 4:18:08 PM EDT
[#24]
As someone who has been on the receiving end of misuse of adhesives over the years I would absolutely NOT use red loctite in this application. There are only a few things I would use red loctite on and one of which is practical jokes on someone. Other have given good alternatives but I have had zero issues with blue on all my optics.
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