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Posted: 1/20/2024 11:33:15 PM EDT
With the sheer number of different LE trade in pistols ok the market, Glock/sig/MP, has anybody done an FOIA or agency equivalent to find out it's history?
My Glock 17.5 mos comes from a very small town in PA per stamps I'd be afraid of getting the request back and it has a body in it Any stories or results of a request anybody did? |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 12:04:40 AM EDT
[#1]
If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question. Just use & enjoy the gun.
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Posted: 1/21/2024 12:27:01 AM EDT
[#2]
But why? Shoot it and move on.
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Posted: 1/21/2024 12:59:01 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jodan1776: If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question. Just use & enjoy the gun.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 1:25:23 AM EDT
[#4]
I'd be afraid of getting the request back and it has a body in it Don't sweat it. The odds probably aren't too different than winning the lottery. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 9:45:07 AM EDT
[#5]
You people worry about the weirdest things.
Why would you care about the history of a cheap Glock. If a bunch of idiots start doing this and/or making a big deal about it if you get one "with a body on it", it will become a PITA for police departments to offload their guns like this and there won't be any more cheap glocks. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2024 10:02:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By craig24680: … I'd be afraid of getting the request back and it has a body in it Would think that would be a bonus if you want to sell it, like verified notches on an Old West Colt SAA. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 10:16:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jeeps-And-Guns]
[#7]
How would you even do it?
I have a older Beretta 92FS I bought at a local (well, hour away from me) gun store that was a police trade. However I have no idea where they got them from. They could have come from the city the store is in, or they could have gotten them from some department halfway across the country. I looked up the SN on Beretta's website and it shows being made in 2004, but that is it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 10:21:02 AM EDT
[#8]
I know of one local range that is still renting a Glock 19 after it was stolen and used in a suicide. Of course they don't publicize it but the employees and owner all know about it.
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USA
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Posted: 1/21/2024 10:28:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Why does that make a difference? IF the gun was used to do the needful it was the cop puling the trigger not the gun doing it on it's own.
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Posted: 1/21/2024 11:27:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Should have left out the part about the body
More just wondering who has done it and if anything interesting was found |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 11:36:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FightingHellfish]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig24680: Should have left out the part about the body More just wondering who has done it and if anything interesting was found Why would you abuse the FOIA system and waste time and money compelling bullshit requests like this? These requests to compel government to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to research boot camp rifles or CMP Garands to satisfy adult children is beyond stupid. Now we are going to add LE surplus pistols to the mix? Plus, do you think you’re going to get the service record of every officer that carried the gun? If you get anything from local LE, it will be “Badger Crossing Sherrif’s Office purchased M9 #123456 on 9 September 1998. It was released as surplus and sold to [REDACTED] on 22 August 2006.” If that. LE can be terrible about material records and they don’t panic about guns like DoD does, so fewer separate records. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 12:45:36 PM EDT
[#12]
The gun doesn’t care where the bullets went.
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Posted: 1/21/2024 12:51:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: I looked up the SN on Beretta's website and it shows being made in 204, but that is it.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 1:05:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Unless the gun was marked with the name of the agency or you got it directly from the FFL who bought it from the agency and they told you where they bought it, how would you even know where to file the FOIA request?
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2024 1:35:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Modern guns could not care less, old guns with potential historical significance ( old colts or S&W’s ,winchesters) different story. Getting factory historical letters ( most of the time they will simply list shipment to a big store chain or distributor ) at times will bring up a surprise, like shipment to a particular individual or agency of historical significance.
One gun I almost went nuts bidding on through gun broker was a 1911 shipped in the 1920’s to my town. It lettered as shipped to the hardware store where my grandfather worked, which would have been pretty cool |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2024 3:20:08 PM EDT
[#16]
The largest percentage of police trade in department owned guns are carried a lot and shot very little. Many departments only qualify once per year that is 50 rounds per year. Many Officer don't train on their on or even fire their weapon off duty. They don't want to buy ammunition out of pocket.
So the odds are good that you get a Department firearm that has only a few hundred rounds fired through it but it's been in a holster for 500,000 miles. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2024 4:36:01 PM EDT
[#17]
You act like having a body on a police gun is like getting a gun with the sn etched off and it has multiple.Id take a police gun with bodies cuz its one less shitbird walking around
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Posted: 1/21/2024 5:12:10 PM EDT
[#18]
It’s an inanimate object. It’s not like there’s gonna be some curse or bad juju. That’s just not a thing.
I built a yugo AK, even had the original barrel. Some stuff carved in the wood. Could it have been used in the Balkans war? Don’t know, don’t care. Seriously, if it had been used in a shooting, are you thinking the soul of the person is gonna transfer into the pistol and haunt you? What sense does that make? |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 5:14:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BLUEBOY: The largest percentage of police trade in department owned guns are carried a lot and shot very little. Many departments only qualify once per year that is 50 rounds per year. Many Officer don't train on their on or even fire their weapon off duty. They don't want to buy ammunition out of pocket. So the odds are good that you get a Department firearm that has only a few hundred rounds fired through it but it's been in a holster for 500,000 miles. You could get a “used gun” that was never even issued to anyone and is more or less brand new. You could also get a gun with 20,000 rounds on the clock. |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 5:43:05 PM EDT
[#20]
That gun didn’t kill anybody.
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Posted: 1/21/2024 5:45:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Respectfully, who cares if it “has a body on it?” It’s an inanimate object. A tool.
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Posted: 1/21/2024 6:44:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BuddyChryst: It’s an inanimate object. It’s not like there’s gonna be some curse or bad juju. That’s just not a thing. I built a yugo AK, even had the original barrel. Some stuff carved in the wood. Could it have been used in the Balkans war? Don’t know, don’t care. Seriously, if it had been used in a shooting, are you thinking the soul of the person is gonna transfer into the pistol and haunt you? What sense does that make? I have my grandfather’s Luger from WW2 and he actually notes in his diary executions he carried out in the Russian campaign. If there was ever a handgun that would be haunted, cursed, or carry some dark baggage that would be one of them. Just a piece of history at this point… |
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Posted: 1/21/2024 10:01:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ManiacRat]
[#23]
Even if you knew the agency I'd be surprised if they had any meaningful records on the firearm. If and big if anything survived it probably would show issued to whoever. Maybe an inspection or two listed. That's it. But I'd be more willing to bet that the minute it was traded in, the paperwork was shredded. Law enforcement agencies have massive amounts of paperwork. They don't want any extra.
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Posted: 1/21/2024 11:43:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Some people think that would be a feature!
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USA
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Posted: 1/22/2024 12:56:51 AM EDT
[#25]
I have several weapons that were in WWII so they might have stacked bodies like cord wood, does it matter it's an inanimate object. The person behind the trigger did the killing.
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Posted: 1/22/2024 1:17:15 AM EDT
[#26]
I never thought about my gun being haunted.
"ooooh O'Patrick you bastard, I know you are fucking my wife and that's why you shot me when you pulled me over, you'll pay for eternity -" "excuse me sir, I bought this used Glock 22 from AIM Surplus a decade ago, I just found it behind the seat on my truck" "What year is it?" "2024" "That bastard O'Patrick is dead or in Florida where am I?" "utah" "Sweet Mary Mother of Jesus what did I do to deserve this?" |
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Posted: 1/22/2024 8:34:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AZ-Dave]
[#27]
OP, you better not ever dive into milsurp stuff then.
Just think what 'trauma' an old M1 Garand or M1 carbine that went thru WWII or Korea may carry with it.  I wonder if CMP gets requests for guns with a 'clean' record..... "Please send me one Saginaw M1 Carbine, but one that only saw drill practice and range use, and doesn't come with the haunting of 15 dead CHICOM's with it."🤔 |
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Posted: 1/22/2024 8:47:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish: Why would you abuse the FOIA system and waste time and money compelling bullshit requests like this? These requests to compel government to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to research boot camp rifles or CMP Garands to satisfy adult children is beyond stupid. Now we are going to add LE surplus pistols to the mix? Plus, do you think you’re going to get the service record of every officer that carried the gun? If you get anything from local LE, it will be “Badger Crossing Sherrif’s Office purchased M9 #123456 on 9 September 1998. It was released as surplus and sold to [REDACTED] on 22 August 2006.” If that. LE can be terrible about material records and they don’t panic about guns like DoD does, so fewer separate records. My thoughts too. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/22/2024 9:24:29 AM EDT
[#29]
This is quite possibly the silliest thing I've read on here in a long, long time (and that's saying something).
Heh, I have a fair number of firearms that came from department evidence room trade-ins... I have a very accurate Ruger MKII that was purchased for around a hundred bucks with exterior muzzle corrosion that looks like a pretty obvious "barrel chew", LOVE that gun. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/22/2024 9:37:00 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: I have my grandfather’s Luger from WW2 and he actually notes in his diary executions he carried out in the Russian campaign. If there was ever a handgun that would be haunted, cursed, or carry some dark baggage that would be one of them. Just a piece of history at this point… Based. |
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Posted: 1/22/2024 11:36:34 AM EDT
[#31]
I got the idea from the CMP 1911 threads where people submit FOIA requests to the .gov and got records back
but I guess that is different due to being 1911s? NOT picking on this guy but example https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/1911-Navy-FOIA/49-211618/ And again I should have removed the part about "having a body" as admittedly it was kinda silly But if a gun has police logo lasered on, easy to tell where |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2024 6:47:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: scottmon]
[#32]
Bought a former CHP S&W 4006TSW and when I pulled the grip to detail clean there was a significant amount of dried blood under it.
Also owned a German MG08/15 WW1 battlefield pickup from Passchendale years ago. No telling how many people that thing killed |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:08:54 AM EDT
[#33]
people are moral agents, not things
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:21:43 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottmon: Bought a former CHP S&W 4006TSW and when I pulled the grip to detail clean there was a significant amount of dried blood under it. Also owned a German MG08/15 WW1 battlefield pickup from Passchendale years ago. No telling how many people that thing killed You sure that wasn’t just dried oil? How would a LE service pistol get so immersed in blood that it got under the grip panels and then never cleaned before returning to service? |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:01:06 AM EDT
[#35]
TL/DR - Dont worry about it OP
But I've pondered it a time or two... 30 years LE firearms instructor here. I've received a few guns back from the GBI after they do their "after-shoot" investigations Last one I got back from GBI was to get the officer back on the range as he wanted his original issued gun. He smoked a dude coming after him with 12-inch butcher knives in both hands. Bad guy DOA Opened the box and that Glock 17 looked just like any other Glock 17. Gun didnt care... Picked it up, fired a few rounds. Gun didnt care... Handed it to the officer and ran him though qual course. Gun didnt care... Re-issued officer his gun. Gun didnt care... Officer never told me if the gun was haunted or not. Kinda reminds me of "I am the bullet". RIP Louis Awerbuck I am the bullet—and I have no conscience. You will treat me with respect because, once I leave, you have no control over my actions. Once I’m gone, I will do as I please, governed only by the laws of physics. And the next time you see me, I will have done my work, bringing on your life a potential gamut of emotions ranging from pleasure, satisfaction and exhilaration to anger, pain, grief and regret Use me wisely and with discretion, for I can snuff out the flame of a king’s life as easily as I can bring delight to a ten-year-old’s face by recording for posterity a first bullseye on a humble paper target. It took the fire of a crucible to conceive me, but now I’m no longer molten metal—and therein lies the deceptiveness of my power. When I was cast in the mold of hot lead, you knew I was dangerous, but now you underestimate me as I lie in the womb of the cartridge case, a solidified metal teardrop the size of your fingernail. Beware, for the day I’m born I will go from womb to tomb in a fraction of a second. For me there will be no childhood, no puberty, no adulthood—just a nano-second of flight before I find my terminal resting place. You must be mother, father, teacher, and priest, because you will guide me on my short life’s path. I am but an emotionless inanimate object with no conscience. Once the hot gases of propulsion give birth to my destination, they will also signal my death knell. Instant birth to instant rest, with but a momentary tick of the clock to bring pleasure or pain. The responsibility for my actions rests squarely on your shoulders. You conceived me, you entombed me in a cartridge case with my brother primer and sister gunpowder, slaves to your bidding. If you didn’t cast, size, lube and load me yourself, you bought me just like you bought Mister Gump’s box of chocolates. But unlike the box of chocolates, with me you know what you’re going to get. I am the corked bottle encasing a quiescent genie. Once the genie is free, you know exactly what potential can be unleashed—but you had better choose your three wishes wisely. The acquisition of firearms and ammunition is sequential, one way or the other. Rarely does one initially have a vast supply of ammo of a specific caliber and subsequently acquire a firearm to use or expend this supply. While people often buy a secondary or tertiary weapon for this reason, usually one purchases the gun, cleaning equipment, accessories, and a storage unit—be it a case, bag or gun safe—before any thought is given to what ammunition is going to be obtained and used in the weapon. And after spending a king’s ransom on all this equipment, you head for the local gun emporium and spend a pittance on a case of the cheapest garbage military surplus ammo you can find. Then when you miss, you blame it on me. When you accidentally discharge a firearm because you neglected to extract me from the chamber, you blame it on me. When I plow my way through bone and muscle, and fail to incapacitate a madman, you blame it on me. But when you achieve the result you wanted, then it’s because of your masterful ability, and I’m forgotten—used, expended, and spent. Such is my lot—Man’s ingratitude and lack of respect for the humble bullet. Because you paid for the ammunition, I become your possession. But you don’t own me—I own your soul. I will make you or break you in my short lifespan. The slightest marksmanship error on your part and I will embarrass you in front of your peers. The slightest lapse in concentration while manipulating a firearm and I will take an innocent life. I will ricochet off a windshield, belt buckle, or baseball cap bill when you’ve been told I should have penetrated the material—and I will just as easily over-penetrate an apartment wall and snuff out the future of a defenseless child. Doctor Mann spent a lifetime trying to find out why I didn’t always perform as external ballistics would demand I do—and he went to his grave with my secret intact. But you insist on imbibing alcohol and firing bullets into the air in a puerile Yuletide celebration, understanding nothing of the physics of my flight path—or my power to change your life forever. You spend endless hours discussing the merits and demerits of my size and velocity, but when all is said and done, it really doesn’t mean anything. The truth of the matter is that, once I depart your gun muzzle, you no longer have control over me—and I, too, no longer have control over my own destiny. The next time you see a humble unfired bullet, remember that without me your gun is as useless as fingers on a rooster. And once loaded, I can be as dangerous as a drunk in rush hour traffic. Once my power is unleashed, there can be only two results—delight and satisfaction, or disaster and horror. And this will reach fruition in the blink of an eye, for I have no childhood, no puberty, no adulthood. Treat me with respect, for I am the bullet—and I have no conscience. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:40:39 AM EDT
[#36]
I wouldn't care if a gun I had was used by a cop to take down a person. Could just mean it did it's job and helped a cop go home that day instead of being taken down by a bad guy. Either way, it's a tool with a function. It's a cop that controlled it.
Any milsurps I have, they may have histories too, they did their job. Wouldn't bother me one bit. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 2:35:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: scottrh2]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By craig24680: I got the idea from the CMP 1911 threads where people submit FOIA requests to the .gov and got records back but I guess that is different due to being 1911s? NOT picking on this guy but example https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/1911-Navy-FOIA/49-211618/ And again I should have removed the part about "having a body" as admittedly it was kinda silly But if a gun has police logo lasered on, easy to tell where The DOD FOIA as you show does not show much either. That 1911 in that example was made in 1943 and nothing on it appears until entered into the automated system in 1976. Now the owner knows it was on a Sub in 1976. Just what do you want to find out from a PD? If you find out it was the weapon a fat lesbian in dispatch had will this make it all better? |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 2:55:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EdgecrusherXES]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottrh2: The DOD FOIA as you show does not show much either. That 1911 in that example was made in 1943 and nothing on it appears until entered into the automated system in 1976. Now the owner knows it was on a Sub in 1976. Just what do you want to find out from a PD? If you find out it was the weapon a fat lesbian in dispatch had will this make it all better?   That is a good one but do you really think they record the sexual orientation of the employee in government records? That would be some creeper level social media stalking to find that out. 
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KY, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2024 5:05:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish: You sure that wasn’t just dried oil? How would a LE service pistol get so immersed in blood that it got under the grip panels and then never cleaned before returning to service? Definitely blood, not dried oil |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 1/23/2024 10:30:42 PM EDT
[#40]
No one really cares?
We generally keep our guns about 10 years. We keep a list of who they're issued to. After we trade them in, guys buy back theirs if they want it then the list gets tossed in a drawer and forgotten. I keep the list in an excel spreadsheet these days, so my records go back about 20 years, so 3 guns. If you're lucky, that dept will tell you we had the gun in service from this year to that year and maybe it was issued to so and so. if you sent me a FOIA request on a gun that you bought that was issued by us, we'd just toss it or call you back and say we can't find that info. i mean who really cares? no ghost is coming to haunt you. |
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Posted: 1/24/2024 10:03:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pakieser]
[#41]
Unless you know where it came from, you aren't going to be able to find out much.
I have an AoW shotgun with "Property of H.P.D." stamped on it. Houston? Honolulu? Hackensack? I'll never know. The seller has no idea. I did buy a HiPower that was a police trade-in. In the box I found a note from the department that it had been seized on Xmas Eve. I don't know the full story, but it's a safe bet it's not a happy one. Great pistol in excellent condition, the way I see it is I've given it a new life. |
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Posted: 1/24/2024 10:20:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scottmon: Definitely blood, not dried oil So how did that happen? I’ve been around people and animals being shot and I’m trying to imagine the PD where they’re shooting people at a rate where service pistols get immersed in blood. |
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Posted: 1/24/2024 12:54:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish: So how did that happen? I’ve been around people and animals being shot and I’m trying to imagine the PD where they’re shooting people at a rate where service pistols get immersed in blood. Blood does not have to come from shooting people. An injured officer who is bleeding could get blood on a holstered pistol hell even a really bad nose bleed could have caused it. The pistol is on the waist so a bleed anywhere above that could result in blood getting on anything below it. When I broke my nose years ago I had blood all over my mouth, chin, chest, on my hands, forearms running down to my elbows dripping from there, and even on my legs when I sat down. Gravity is a hell of a thing and it is the law. |
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Posted: 1/24/2024 1:14:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FightingHellfish]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EdgecrusherXES: Blood does not have to come from shooting people. An injured officer who is bleeding could get blood on a holstered pistol hell even a really bad nose bleed could have caused it. The pistol is on the waist so a bleed anywhere above that could result in blood getting on anything below it. When I broke my nose years ago I had blood all over my mouth, chin, chest, on my hands, forearms running down to my elbows dripping from there, and even on my legs when I sat down. Gravity is a hell of a thing and it is the law. You don’t think that would get cleaned off? And it made its way under a grip panel? That would be a lot. Now I need to buy a gallon of blood to test this hypothesis. |
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Posted: 1/24/2024 2:26:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish: You don’t think that would get cleaned off? And it made its way under a grip panel? That would be a lot. Now I need to buy a gallon of blood to test this hypothesis. I do not really have an answer on the general clean up but finding randomness under grip panels is not anything new. I do know the blood and steel/metals in general do not mix the blood tends to have a corrosive effect that causes rusting and pitting at a far more accelerated rate than just water in general. So if blood is left on the metal it will start ruining the metal fairly quickly. |
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MD, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 9:28:32 AM EDT
[#46]
Originally Posted By craig24680: With the sheer number of different LE trade in pistols ok the market, Glock/sig/MP, has anybody done an FOIA or agency equivalent to find out it's history? My Glock 17.5 mos comes from a very small town in PA per stamps I'd be afraid of getting the request back and it has a body in it Any stories or results of a request anybody did? Carve a Notch in the grip like Robert and shoot it!!
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Posted: 1/28/2024 1:36:50 AM EDT
[#47]
FPNI.
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Posted: 1/28/2024 1:40:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capt_Destro]
[#48]
Originally Posted By craig24680: With the sheer number of different LE trade in pistols ok the market, Glock/sig/MP, has anybody done an FOIA or agency equivalent to find out it's history? My Glock 17.5 mos comes from a very small town in PA per stamps I'd be afraid of getting the request back and it has a body in it Any stories or results of a request anybody did? I ordered a trade in Jericho, the bluing had some blood stains/rust near the trigger guard and under the dust cover. I wonder if some Hamas member got beat down with it. Its basically a 3lb chunk of steel |
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Posted: 1/28/2024 10:27:08 AM EDT
[#49]
So much emphasis on if it has a "body" on it or not.
Has no one ever bought a military surplus rifle or pistol? Mosin, Mauser, etc.. Some of them can be 100+ years old and fought in multiple wars and conflicts. So the chances of them NOT having a body on them is slim to none. Most will have lots of bodies on them, from both sides of the guns. Cause chances are the soldier carrying it got killed while doing so also. People do not seem to be bothered by that. They buy up mil-surps like crazy most times, shoot the hell out of them and most never even think about how many people that rifle has probably killed. Sometimes I wonder how many people have been killed with the mil-surp rifles I have. But then I realize I will never know, and at this point it makes no difference. I enjoy them for what they are. Collectable military rifles. So who cares if a gun has a "body" on it. Shoot it and enjoy it. If it bothers you that much, then only buy brand new guns. |
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Posted: 1/28/2024 10:29:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AJE]
[#50]
The guy is much more likely to have been qualified with once a year, then scraped against walls and the seatbelt while gathering dust (or had coffee spilled on it) than having a "body on it".
Even then, a FOIA request would probably only tell you when it was purchased and sold, maybe who it was assigned to. The agency may not have records that easily accessible past that. |
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