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Posted: 10/23/2023 3:45:03 PM EDT
[#1]
I've shot a lot of the NATO packaged Winchester 124gr and it seems about right and was always pretty good ammo.
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Posted: 10/26/2023 10:26:14 AM EDT
[#2]
It's pretty pricy per box, but I believe the SIG M18 124 +P FMJ would be close to what the actual military uses.
https://www.sigsauer.com/9mm-p-124gr-elite-ball-m17-fmj-box-50.html |
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Posted: 10/27/2023 4:44:10 AM EDT
[#3]
My training buddy (15 years as SF CIF guy) shoots thousands of rounds of military Sig ball ammo
The stuff is super spicey and beats up his Glocks, optics, lights, etc…. He gets about 5k per RSA on a G17. I’m shooting Federal 147gr ball and the recoil difference is immediately noticeable and significant. |
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Posted: 10/28/2023 7:43:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Winchester 124 grain FMJ NATO 9MM ammo info from the Winchester ammo web site.
https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Handgun/USA/Q4318 This stuff shoot pretty darn good in my M&P 9MM pistols. The 2.0 5", the Shield Plus and the Equalizer. The CZs don't seem to like it much (groups suck) |
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Posted: 10/28/2023 8:14:44 AM EDT
[#5]
MEN 9mm NATO 124gr is my preferred. You may wish to try it. Availability varies like most things. Winchester NATO is solid as well.
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Posted: 10/28/2023 3:48:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My training buddy (15 years as SF CIF guy) shoots thousands of rounds of military Sig ball ammo The stuff is super spicey and beats up his Glocks, optics, lights, etc…. I’m curious what 9mm ammo the military is using these days. I haven’t been to a range in over five years. I’m guessing you’re referring to the military contract version of this SIG ammo: SIG 9mm +P, 124gr, Elite Ball M17, FMJ I bought two boxes last spring when SIG was doing their pistol and ammo rebate, but I haven’t had a chance to try it yet. I was under the impression that Winchester M1152 115gr was the new designated training round, but maybe that’s just regular Army using it. M1152 is definitely loaded hot and feels like shooting NATO 124gr +P to me. |
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Posted: 10/28/2023 6:15:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Winchester 124 grain FMJ NATO 9MM ammo info from the Winchester ammo web site. https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Handgun/USA/Q4318 This stuff shoot pretty darn good in my M&P 9MM pistols. The 2.0 5", the Shield Plus and the Equalizer. The CZs don't seem to like it much (groups suck) A couple weeks ago I found this ammo for a good price so I picked some up. I actually chronied it yesterday, 1,200 fps velocity average, almost on the nose, from a 4.7" barrel P320. About 1,210 calculated from the muzzle. Around a couple hundred fps more from a 16" carbine. Also, I think the ball ammo the military is using switched to a 115 grain flat nosed 9mm loaded to a super spicy 1,300 fps! |
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Posted: 10/28/2023 7:41:35 PM EDT
[#8]
The Winchester M1152 is definitely hotter than run of the mill 124gr NATO ball, and is pretty accurate from my limited experience out of Glocks and a 5" 1911.
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Posted: 10/28/2023 8:04:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Any of the Euro manufacturers will be close to NATO spec. S&B, PPU, Igman.
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Posted: 10/30/2023 7:05:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A couple weeks ago I found this ammo for a good price so I picked some up. I actually chronied it yesterday, 1,200 fps velocity average, almost on the nose, from a 4.7" barrel P320. About 1,210 calculated from the muzzle. Around a couple hundred fps more from a 16" carbine. Also, I think the ball ammo the military is using switched to a 115 grain flat nosed 9mm loaded to a super spicy 1,300 fps! I got 1/2 a case awhile back and it shoots good in my M&P pistols. Haven't tried it in the CZs yet. |
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Posted: 10/30/2023 11:02:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any of the Euro manufacturers will be close to NATO spec. S&B, PPU, Igman. I've tried some of the MEN and S&B "white box" mil/LE contract ammo a few times over the years. I don't remember if any of it was labeled as being NATO spec velocity, but my impression was it was not. Decent shooting ammo, definitely hotter than say Blazer Brass or Speer Lawman, but not NATO. More on par with say Federal American Eagle, which I think is great ammo with pretty decent velocity for a non-NATO laod. |
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Posted: 11/8/2023 4:55:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Winchester 124 grain FMJ NATO 9MM ammo info from the Winchester ammo web site. https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Handgun/USA/Q4318 This stuff shoot pretty darn good in my M&P 9MM pistols. The 2.0 5", the Shield Plus and the Equalizer. The CZs don't seem to like it much (groups suck) @M1A4ME I'm surprised about CZs as I think they were optimized for 124gr. |
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Posted: 11/8/2023 5:11:52 AM EDT
[#13]
The Winchester 124 gr 9mm NATO is very close to +P pressures.
from SGAmmo website "Winchester manufacture 9mm NATO ammunition part number q4318. This ammo is commercial grade ammunition that is loaded to M882 military specs with 10% higher pressure than standard 124 grain FMJ ammunition, thus it is +P pressure level (but not specifically marked +P). This ammo is excellent for sub machine gun use but will work well in any high quality 9mm Luger caliber weapon. This is new production ammo headstamped with the NATO mark, packaged 50 rounds per box, 500 rounds per case. Brass case, boxer primer, copper FMJ 124 grain." |
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Posted: 11/8/2023 9:19:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @M1A4ME I'm surprised about CZs as I think they were optimized for 124gr. A lot of CZ shooters say the 124 grain bullets do really well for them. I don't hear the saying specifically that Winchester 124 grain FMJ NATO ammo works for them. Different guns shoot different ammo better or worse than another. I feel lucky when I have a load that shoot well in different guns. My pet CZ 9MM load shoots real good in the M&P Shield and Shield Plus pistols, and the Equalizer, too. It has never impressed me in the full sized M&P 9 MM pistols, which is why I've bought different brands and bullet weights to try in the M&Ps. Just happens that the Win. NATO ammo shoots good in the Shields and the 2.0 5" 9MM. I find similar results in the .40's. The load that my CZ .40's (P07, P09, CZ75B) shoot really well doesn't shoot as well in my M&P .40's as Winchester 180 grain hollow points. And the Win. 180 grain hollow points don't shoot as well in the CZ .40's. Guns are funny. |
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Posted: 11/25/2023 4:20:53 PM EDT
[#15]
I stack Win, SAR, and Igman 124 NATO. Great quality and bulk pricing. Good with MKE battlepacks also, which seemd to be a little spicier than Igman based on recoil in A/B shooting sessions; I save those for PCCs only.
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Posted: 11/25/2023 6:33:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Back pre-corvid, You could get cases of Q4318 from PSA for $180.00. Sometimes free shipping.
Primers were crimped so if you want to reload the brass you'll have to remove the crimps. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 10:50:31 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back pre-corvid, You could get cases of Q4318 from PSA for $180.00. Sometimes free shipping. Primers were crimped so if you want to reload the brass you'll have to remove the crimps. Yes. I remember this. I bought a few cases to put away. About half had the sealed primers. Shooting it at 50 yards from my PCC they are a LOT more accurate than regular bulk Win. 115 FMJ and hotter. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 10:18:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I stack Win, SAR, and Igman 124 NATO. Great quality and bulk pricing. Good with MKE battlepacks also, which seemd to be a little spicier than Igman based on recoil in A/B shooting sessions; I save those for PCCs only. How is the velocity on the SAR? Is it double sealed? |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 9:55:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of CZ shooters say the 124 grain bullets do really well for them. I don't hear the saying specifically that Winchester 124 grain FMJ NATO ammo works for them. Different guns shoot different ammo better or worse than another. I feel lucky when I have a load that shoot well in different guns. My pet CZ 9MM load shoots real good in the M&P Shield and Shield Plus pistols, and the Equalizer, too. It has never impressed me in the full sized M&P 9 MM pistols, which is why I've bought different brands and bullet weights to try in the M&Ps. Just happens that the Win. NATO ammo shoots good in the Shields and the 2.0 5" 9MM. I find similar results in the .40's. The load that my CZ .40's (P07, P09, CZ75B) shoot really well doesn't shoot as well in my M&P .40's as Winchester 180 grain hollow points. And the Win. 180 grain hollow points don't shoot as well in the CZ .40's. Guns are funny. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @M1A4ME I'm surprised about CZs as I think they were optimized for 124gr. A lot of CZ shooters say the 124 grain bullets do really well for them. I don't hear the saying specifically that Winchester 124 grain FMJ NATO ammo works for them. Different guns shoot different ammo better or worse than another. I feel lucky when I have a load that shoot well in different guns. My pet CZ 9MM load shoots real good in the M&P Shield and Shield Plus pistols, and the Equalizer, too. It has never impressed me in the full sized M&P 9 MM pistols, which is why I've bought different brands and bullet weights to try in the M&Ps. Just happens that the Win. NATO ammo shoots good in the Shields and the 2.0 5" 9MM. I find similar results in the .40's. The load that my CZ .40's (P07, P09, CZ75B) shoot really well doesn't shoot as well in my M&P .40's as Winchester 180 grain hollow points. And the Win. 180 grain hollow points don't shoot as well in the CZ .40's. Guns are funny. @M1A4ME I wish I could pick up a new CZ 75 in .40 but they don't make them anymore. I guess they didn't sell. I don't know why CZ doesn't make more of their pistols in colors other than black. I saw a couple of OEM colors that looked good to my eyes. The M&P 2.0 5" 9mm must be nice for a polymer (I much prefer steel). I may pick up the .40 version in the future in FDE or whatever they call that color. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 11:12:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @M1A4ME I wish I could pick up a new CZ 75 in .40 but they don't make them anymore. I guess they didn't sell. I don't know why CZ doesn't make more of their pistols in colors other than black. I saw a couple of OEM colors that looked good to my eyes. The M&P 2.0 5" 9mm must be nice for a polymer (I much prefer steel). I may pick up the .40 version in the future in FDE or whatever they call that color. They hardly make anything I'd buy anymore. Hanging their future business on the P10 9MM pistols. Seems they make about as many variants of P10's as all their other models combined. I got a (looks like) new P07 DUTY .40 still in the box (2010 make) a few months back at a gun show for right at $400. Everything still in the box, still had paper caliber tags stuck on the magazines and only one mag. had mag. catch scratches on it. Left with a smile on my face that day. |
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Posted: 12/17/2023 12:01:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know why CZ doesn't make more of their pistols in colors other than black. I thought about picking up a P-10 C after reading all the favorable reviews, but I decided I wanted one in OD Green. I saw that frame color on some other CZ pistols and thought it looked great. Then they released the F and S in that color, so I figured it was only a matter of time for the C. It’s been a few years now, and still no OD Green C. At this point, I’ve kind of lost interest, so I don’t think I’ll be getting one even if they do show up some day. |
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Posted: 12/17/2023 12:38:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Winchester 124 gr 9mm NATO is very close to +P pressures. from SGAmmo website "Winchester manufacture 9mm NATO ammunition part number q4318. This ammo is commercial grade ammunition that is loaded to M882 military specs with 10% higher pressure than standard 124 grain FMJ ammunition, thus it is +P pressure level (but not specifically marked +P). This ammo is excellent for sub machine gun use but will work well in any high quality 9mm Luger caliber weapon. This is new production ammo headstamped with the NATO mark, packaged 50 rounds per box, 500 rounds per case. Brass case, boxer primer, copper FMJ 124 grain." https://palmettostatearmory.com/winchester-usa-9mm-nato-124gr-fmj-ammunition-50rds-q4318.html  |
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Posted: 12/17/2023 2:09:50 PM EDT
[#23]
TargetSportsUSA has a pretty good price for 500 rounds of Winchester NATO right now. Comes out to about 28 cents / round after sales tax is added:
Winchester USA 9mm NATO 124 Grain Full Metal Jacket - $129.90 for case of 500 w/free shipping |
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Posted: 12/17/2023 10:11:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m curious what 9mm ammo the military is using these days. I haven’t been to a range in over five years. I’m guessing you’re referring to the military contract version of this SIG ammo: SIG 9mm +P, 124gr, Elite Ball M17, FMJ I bought two boxes last spring when SIG was doing their pistol and ammo rebate, but I haven’t had a chance to try it yet. I was under the impression that Winchester M1152 115gr was the new designated training round, but maybe that’s just regular Army using it. M1152 is definitely loaded hot and feels like shooting NATO 124gr +P to me. Yes. He is shooting tons of 124gr Sig ammo. Not sure if it’s rated +P but it most certainly is if not hotter. My Dept. issues 124gr +P HST and the Sig ammo he’s shooting is noticeably hotter. |
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Posted: 12/18/2023 3:40:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what I use to break in my last 2 9mm, a Sig M11-A1 and a Sig commercial M18. Good stuff. I buy it from PSA. https://palmettostatearmory.com/winchester-usa-9mm-nato-124gr-fmj-ammunition-50rds-q4318.html https://imgur.com/IspVA77.jpeg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Winchester 124 gr 9mm NATO is very close to +P pressures. from SGAmmo website "Winchester manufacture 9mm NATO ammunition part number q4318. This ammo is commercial grade ammunition that is loaded to M882 military specs with 10% higher pressure than standard 124 grain FMJ ammunition, thus it is +P pressure level (but not specifically marked +P). This ammo is excellent for sub machine gun use but will work well in any high quality 9mm Luger caliber weapon. This is new production ammo headstamped with the NATO mark, packaged 50 rounds per box, 500 rounds per case. Brass case, boxer primer, copper FMJ 124 grain." https://palmettostatearmory.com/winchester-usa-9mm-nato-124gr-fmj-ammunition-50rds-q4318.html https://imgur.com/IspVA77.jpeg $0.38rd before tax and shipping.. ouch. The Win is good ammo. The downside is that it’s a crap shoot as to whether or not you will receive sealed cases. |
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