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Posted: 1/1/2024 9:45:08 PM EDT
[#1]
While its not always the cheapest, Federal and Speer Lawmen tend to be quality loads that are perfect for training.
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Posted: 1/1/2024 9:51:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Speer 147 gr FMJ hands down the best for training- cost, quality, clean burning, trajectory
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Posted: 1/1/2024 9:55:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Thought federal had a 147 grain syntech that matches the hst loading. Might be worth looking into.
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Posted: 1/1/2024 11:08:26 PM EDT
[#4]
I prefer Federal AE. Speer is cheaper. Syntech (purple) is supposed to match HST POI but it’s crazy expensive
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Posted: 1/1/2024 11:09:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thought federal had a 147 grain syntech that matches the hst loading. Might be worth looking into. They do. It’s expensive and uses a lead free primer with a 10-year shelf life. So buy fresh ammo and rotate stock frequently. |
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Posted: 1/1/2024 11:44:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Sounds like Lawman or Federal AE. Not sure I’m interested in the cost or shelf life of the Syntech.
Looks like I can snag Lawman for $280/1000 or Federal AE for $270/1000. Thinking I might go for the Speer… |
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Posted: 1/2/2024 12:01:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Where?
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Posted: 1/2/2024 12:54:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They do. It’s expensive and uses a lead free primer with a 10-year shelf life. So buy fresh ammo and rotate stock frequently. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thought federal had a 147 grain syntech that matches the hst loading. Might be worth looking into. They do. It’s expensive and uses a lead free primer with a 10-year shelf life. So buy fresh ammo and rotate stock frequently. Off topic question then I'll get back on topic. Can anyone elaborate on this primer shelf life? I survived the primer panic of the 90's when klinton insisted the ammo plants make ammo & primers with a short shelf life. ( 10 years is a short life for ammo) The answer then was technically/scientifically impossible couldn't do it no how no way. It's been 25+ years I think since then but when did they figure out a shelf life? Any ways back,on topic: I don't buy much loaded ammo but I'd go with the S&B for the brass. |
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Posted: 1/2/2024 7:47:57 AM EDT
[#9]
I’ve been shooting this stuff almost exclusively for practice with my suppressor and it shoots to the same POI as HST 147.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 1/2/2024 9:15:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like Lawman or Federal AE. Not sure I’m interested in the cost or shelf life of the Syntech. Looks like I can snag Lawman for $280/1000 or Federal AE for $270/1000. Thinking I might go for the Speer… I’ve also heard, as someone mentioned above, that Federal AE is matched to the equivalent HST round. Checking their specs on Federal’s website, the 147 gr 9mm rounds are both listed as having a muzzle velocity of 1000 fps, FWIW. Speer 147 gr is listed as 985 fps. That fits with the experience of many people who say that Speer is softer shooting ammo. If you really want to match the ballistics of your practice and carry rounds, it might be worth paying a little extra for the AE. I caught a good deal on 147gr AE at a show in November - I believe it was $120 for 500 rounds (cash, so tax included). I’d been wanting to pick up some for training for the reason mentioned above. It was a little depressing to remember that I paid $185 for the last case I bought in 2018. |
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Posted: 1/3/2024 12:17:27 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve also heard, as someone mentioned above, that Federal AE is matched to the equivalent HST round. Checking their specs on Federal’s website, the 147 gr 9mm rounds are both listed as having a muzzle velocity of 1000 fps, FWIW. Speer 147 gr is listed as 985 fps. That fits with the experience of many people who say that Speer is softer shooting ammo. If you really want to match the ballistics of your practice and carry rounds, it might be worth paying a little extra for the AE. I caught a good deal on 147gr AE at a show in November - I believe it was $120 for 500 rounds (cash, so tax included). I’d been wanting to pick up some for training for the reason mentioned above. It was a little depressing to remember that I paid $185 for the last case I bought in 2018. Thanks for that info! Nice score at 24¢/rd…I have to not think about what I used to buy 115 gr at back in the day. Given the current ammo prices, do ya’ll feel like $280/1000 is decent for Fed AE & Lawman? I have a fair amount of 124 stacked, so I don’t need too much 147 to feel comfortable having enough to train a little with. |
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Posted: 1/3/2024 12:18:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve been shooting this stuff almost exclusively for practice with my suppressor and it shoots to the same POI as HST 147. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/34777/IMG_1417_jpeg-3079222.JPG I used to shoot a lot of Remington 115 gr, so this is good to know! I’ll add this to my AmmoSeek search list. Thanks! |
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Posted: 1/5/2024 5:44:44 PM EDT
[#13]
I've had the best luck with Speer Lawman 147gr as far as performance goes. Blazer brass 147gr wasn't bad either. Personally, Federal AE would be my last pick, it just seems to shoot dirtier than the others, but it also could've been a bad batch. Price wise, in my area, I think Lawman is the most expensive and Blazer being the cheapest....can't remember what I paid.
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Posted: 1/5/2024 6:59:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've had the best luck with Speer Lawman 147gr as far as performance goes. Blazer brass 147gr wasn't bad either. Personally, Federal AE would be my last pick, it just seems to shoot dirtier than the others, but it also could've been a bad batch. Price wise, in my area, I think Lawman is the most expensive and Blazer being the cheapest....can't remember what I paid. I think I might give the Lawman a try. I know it’s not the exact same velocity as the HST, but I don’t think that will be a huge issue (correct me if I’m wrong there), and I like the idea of the TMJ and a cleaner shooting ammo…Unless I can find a better price on AE, or something else like Fiocchi/S&B/Blazer. |
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Posted: 1/6/2024 12:13:00 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think I might give the Lawman a try. I know it’s not the exact same velocity as the HST, but I don’t think that will be a huge issue (correct me if I’m wrong there), and I like the idea of the TMJ and a cleaner shooting ammo…Unless I can find a better price on AE, or something else like Fiocchi/S&B/Blazer. One thing I didn’t mention, and this is purely my own opinion and others will probably disagree with me, but I also experienced feeding issues with Federal AE. Their bullet tip seems to be just a touch “flatter” than Lawman and Blazer. Granted this was through a 9mm 1911, but I experienced feeding issues with the AE and none with the Lawman or Blazer. Hope that helps you out a bit. |
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Posted: 1/6/2024 1:04:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One thing I didn’t mention, and this is purely my own opinion and others will probably disagree with me, but I also experienced feeding issues with Federal AE. Their bullet tip seems to be just a touch “flatter” than Lawman and Blazer. Granted this was through a 9mm 1911, but I experienced feeding issues with the AE and none with the Lawman or Blazer. Hope that helps you out a bit. Thanks for sharing! It’s all data points and good to hear. |
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Posted: 1/11/2024 2:42:07 AM EDT
[#17]
I've put a lot of Freedom Munitions 147GR 9mm thru both my HK's and CZ.
Usually around $12.00 a box for 147GR. Damn good deal if you can catch the times they offer free shipping. |
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Posted: 1/11/2024 8:35:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Now that it was mentioned, I do seem to recall AE being a little dirtier than some, but not filthy. I’ll have to try the stuff I just picked up alongside some Blazer. I think I have a couple boxes of Lawman too.
Ammunition Store has a pretty good price for Lawman 147 gr right now. I’ve had good prices and great service from them, but they while they don’t charge tax, they do charge shipping. It’s reasonable if you’re only ordering a case (around $16), but if you order more than one, the shipping more than doubles and gets pricey. This will end up about 26 cpr: 9mm 9x19 Ammo 147gr FMJ Speer Lawman (53620) 1000 Round Case - $244.99 For comparison, their AE 147 gr is $25 more for a case: 9mm 9x19 Ammo 147gr FMJ FP Federal American Eagle (AE9FP) 1000 Round Case - $269.99 I bought Blazer 124 gr from them recently, and it’s still a pretty good price: 9mm 9x19 Ammo 124gr FMJ CCI Blazer Brass (5201) 1000 Round Case - $239.99 I’m cheap and don’t shoot often enough, so I rarely order more than a case at a time. At those current prices, I’d order the Lawman 147. They didn’t have it in stock when I last ordered the Blazer. I like both Lawman and Blazer for range ammo, but I’ll usually buy cheaper 115 or 124 gr when I’m just shooting for fun. When I want to have a more “serious” range session to confirm my point of aim / impact, I try to match my carry ammo as closely as possible, which is why I bought the AE for. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 5:31:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ammunition Store has a pretty good price for Lawman 147 gr right now. I’ve had good prices and great service from them, but they while they don’t charge tax, they do charge shipping. It’s reasonable if you’re only ordering a case (around $16), but if you order more than one, the shipping more than doubles and gets pricey. This will end up about 26 cpr: 9mm 9x19 Ammo 147gr FMJ Speer Lawman (53620) 1000 Round Case - $244.99 I just ordered a case of the Lawman. They charged me $32.83 to ship to Idaho, but they didn't charge sales tax, so it ended up being a good buy. Thanks for sharing. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 5:45:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Eley 147 is very accurate.
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Posted: 1/14/2024 6:14:05 PM EDT
[#21]
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-law-enforcement-9mm-luger-ammo-147-grain-hi-shok-jacketed-hollow-point-9ms-p-3472.aspx
Very accurate and not much more expensive than 147Gn ball |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 5:57:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: I want to grab some 147 gr 9mm for plinking practice for my HST. Anyone have any feedback on a good brand to go with for 147? Federal 9mm 147 grain JHP 9MS  Accuracy and precision of the 147 grain 9MS load is nearly identical to that of the 147 grain HST. A 10-shot group of the 147 grain 9MS load fired from a distance of 25 yards had an extreme spread of 0.85" while a 10-shot group of the 147 grain HST had an extreme spread of 0.83".   The muzzle velocity of a 10-shot string of the 147 grain 9MS load when fired from my Glock 19 with the factory barrel was 955 FPS with a standard deviation of 8 FPS. The 147 grain HST fired from the same Glock 19 had a muzzle velocity of 1018 FPS with a standard deviation of 18 FPS. ….. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 7:28:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They do. It’s expensive and uses a lead free primer with a 10-year shelf life. So buy fresh ammo and rotate stock frequently. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thought federal had a 147 grain syntech that matches the hst loading. Might be worth looking into. They do. It’s expensive and uses a lead free primer with a 10-year shelf life. So buy fresh ammo and rotate stock frequently. Per Federal "Unlike DDNP-based lead-free primers, the exclusive Catalyst formulation is non-hygroscopic, offering the same reliability, shelf life and ballistics of conventional lead styphnate primers. " So do you know something Federal doesn't know about the Catalyst primers or are you just making up stuff? |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:31:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Per Federal "Unlike DDNP-based lead-free primers, the exclusive Catalyst formulation is non-hygroscopic, offering the same reliability, shelf life and ballistics of conventional lead styphnate primers. " So do you know something Federal doesn't know about the Catalyst primers or are you just making up stuff? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thought federal had a 147 grain syntech that matches the hst loading. Might be worth looking into. They do. It’s expensive and uses a lead free primer with a 10-year shelf life. So buy fresh ammo and rotate stock frequently. Per Federal "Unlike DDNP-based lead-free primers, the exclusive Catalyst formulation is non-hygroscopic, offering the same reliability, shelf life and ballistics of conventional lead styphnate primers. " So do you know something Federal doesn't know about the Catalyst primers or are you just making up stuff? I’ve personally had duds from federal lead free primers and when I contacted federal about the shelf life of their current lead free primers they told me it’s 10-years. Contrast that with the decades old surplus ammo using traditional primers that still works fine. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:40:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve personally had duds from federal lead free primers and when I contacted federal about the shelf life of their current lead free primers they told me it’s 10-years. Contrast that with the decades old surplus ammo using traditional primers that still works fine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thought federal had a 147 grain syntech that matches the hst loading. Might be worth looking into. They do. It’s expensive and uses a lead free primer with a 10-year shelf life. So buy fresh ammo and rotate stock frequently. Per Federal "Unlike DDNP-based lead-free primers, the exclusive Catalyst formulation is non-hygroscopic, offering the same reliability, shelf life and ballistics of conventional lead styphnate primers. " So do you know something Federal doesn't know about the Catalyst primers or are you just making up stuff? I’ve personally had duds from federal lead free primers and when I contacted federal about the shelf life of their current lead free primers they told me it’s 10-years. Contrast that with the decades old surplus ammo using traditional primers that still works fine. The Catalyst primer system has been out around what about five years tops? So Federal lists it as being as good as regular primers, it's been out five years tops, and yet you have insider future knowledge that they will fail in five years? In the absence of a working time machine, I don't believe you. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:47:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Catalyst primer system has been out around what about five years tops? So Federal lists it as being as good as regular primers, it's been out five years tops, and yet you have insider future knowledge that they will fail in five years? In the absence of a working time machine, I don't believe you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thought federal had a 147 grain syntech that matches the hst loading. Might be worth looking into. They do. It’s expensive and uses a lead free primer with a 10-year shelf life. So buy fresh ammo and rotate stock frequently. Per Federal "Unlike DDNP-based lead-free primers, the exclusive Catalyst formulation is non-hygroscopic, offering the same reliability, shelf life and ballistics of conventional lead styphnate primers. " So do you know something Federal doesn't know about the Catalyst primers or are you just making up stuff? I’ve personally had duds from federal lead free primers and when I contacted federal about the shelf life of their current lead free primers they told me it’s 10-years. Contrast that with the decades old surplus ammo using traditional primers that still works fine. The Catalyst primer system has been out around what about five years tops? So Federal lists it as being as good as regular primers, it's been out five years tops, and yet you have insider future knowledge that they will fail in five years? In the absence of a working time machine, I don't believe you. I contacted Federal, they told me the shelf life is 10-years. Believe what you want. Or better yet buy a case today, store it in your garage and shoot a box every January. Report back when you start getting primer failures. |
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Posted: 1/23/2024 8:51:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: I’ve got my eye on Lawman, S&B, Blazer, & Federal AE. I use all of those (S&B the least) and consider them all the same. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 9:15:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just ordered a case of the Lawman. They charged me $32.83 to ship to Idaho, but they didn't charge sales tax, so it ended up being a good buy. Thanks for sharing. I’m glad it was helpful, but ouch on the shipping. I went back to check, and it looks like shipping for a case to me is about $20 now, compared with around $16-$17 last year. It seems their rates may have gone up. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 11:36:22 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 1/25/2024 5:02:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Federal 9mm 147 grain JHP 9MS https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/federal_9mm_9ms_boxe_01_resized-3104871.jpg Accuracy and precision of the 147 grain 9MS load is nearly identical to that of the 147 grain HST. A 10-shot group of the 147 grain 9MS load fired from a distance of 25 yards had an extreme spread of 0.85" while a 10-shot group of the 147 grain HST had an extreme spread of 0.83". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/federal_9ms_10_shot_group__02c_resized-3104872.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/147_hst_standard_10_shot_group_01-2199230.jpg The muzzle velocity of a 10-shot string of the 147 grain 9MS load when fired from my Glock 19 with the factory barrel was 955 FPS with a standard deviation of 8 FPS. The 147 grain HST fired from the same Glock 19 had a muzzle velocity of 1018 FPS with a standard deviation of 18 FPS. ….. Thanks! |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 5:14:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m glad it was helpful, but ouch on the shipping. I went back to check, and it looks like shipping for a case to me is about $20 now, compared with around $16-$17 last year. It seems their rates may have gone up. I missed the sale price, but $37 shipping to me…sheesh, I can ship 1000 rounds cheaper than that. I realize they have to pay someone to package it up, but it can’t take more than 5 minutes to get that ready to ship. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 9:48:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I missed the sale price, but $37 shipping to me…sheesh, I can ship 1000 rounds cheaper than that. I realize they have to pay someone to package it up, but it can’t take more than 5 minutes to get that ready to ship. They didn't do anything to protect the package, they simply shipped the case in the original box that it comes in. No exterior box, or foam peanuts. But I can't bitch too much, I bought 2 more cases. lol |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 11:36:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They didn't do anything to protect the package, they simply shipped the case in the original box that it comes in. No exterior box, or foam peanuts. But I can't bitch too much, I bought 2 more cases. lol  Lol |
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Posted: 2/8/2024 4:14:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for that info! Nice score at 24¢/rd…I have to not think about what I used to buy 115 gr at back in the day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I caught a good deal on 147gr AE at a show in November - I believe it was $120 for 500 rounds (cash, so tax included). I’d been wanting to pick up some for training for the reason mentioned above. It was a little depressing to remember that I paid $185 for the last case I bought in 2018. Thanks for that info! Nice score at 24¢/rd…I have to not think about what I used to buy 115 gr at back in the day. My apologies, I went back to the show last weekend, and the same dealer was selling 500 rounds for $149, so think that’s actually what I paid, not $120. That really would have been a good deal, but I believe I was thinking of something else when I (mis)remembered that price. He was selling cases of AE 147 gr for $269, which I thought was a good price, but he was out by the time I got there. Said he would bring back more the next day, but I wasn’t able to return. I ended up buying a case of PMC 115 gr for $251 out the door (with 5% military discount that offset the sales tax), which I was happy with for range ammo. |
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