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Posted: 1/8/2024 4:12:18 PM EDT
In a discussion with a friend about 9mm bullet weights. This would be for personal defense, close range less than 50' with the same defense ammo other than weight.
He is saying 115 grain is better because of higher velocity and would not penetrate beyond one person. I suggest 147 would be preferred because a higher bullet weight would do more damage and it's unlikely to go beyond one person anyway. Are either of us correct? |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 4:22:11 PM EDT
[#1]
147
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MN, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2024 4:22:38 PM EDT
[#2]
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MO, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2024 4:25:26 PM EDT
[#3]
I use 147 because I have a suppressor on my bump in the night gun.
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Posted: 1/8/2024 4:34:46 PM EDT
[#4]
230
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2024 4:43:10 PM EDT
[#5]
I can't decide who is right so I prefer 124 gr.....
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Posted: 1/8/2024 4:56:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Depends on the pistol it is being fired from.
I use 147s for Full sized / Service handguns I use 124 for Micro 9s. Both are very effective. The knock against 115s is that they are very fast so 115 fans shout they have the "highest 'energy'!!" However the key to effective defense handgun rounds is penetration to the vital organs with expansion along the way, not a super fast & quick opening bullet that produces horrible looking but shallow non-fatal wounds. My .02 cents. |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 5:03:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ming_The_Merciless: Depends on the pistol it is being fired from. I use 147s for Full sized / Service handguns I use 124 for Micro 9s. Both are very effective. The knock against 115s is that they are very fast so 115 fans shout they have the "highest 'energy'!!" However the key to effective defense handgun rounds is penetration to the vital organs with expansion along the way, not a super fast & quick opening bullet that produces horrible looking but shallow non-fatal wounds. My .02 cents. I think you have that backwards. The key everyone is looking for is Hollow Point expansion. If they fully expand, the difference between 115 and 147 is a fart in the wind. 147 for short barrel, because it doesn't rely on velocity as much, and most HP loads can get to the expansion velocity out of a short barrel. Longer barrel for lighter rounds, to get them up to speed. 115 is cool, because 115 target loads are always the cheapest and easiest to find and train with. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2024 5:25:17 PM EDT
[#8]
The 147 grain JHPs will typically penetrate deeper than the 115 JHPs. So many will prefer them. I find it amusing that some people think the 9mm is so great, but in its modern form, it is closer to .38 Special than anything else, (except for the bullet design).
That said, the 115 aren't necessarily a terrible choice, just that they have less penetration. If the bullets don't expand, there won't be much difference between the two. The 147 might do a bit better on bone. |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 6:05:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tejas1836: 147 Yep, more energy, more mayhem. |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 6:06:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GlockFudd: I can't decide who is right so I prefer 124 gr..... So did NATO. |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 6:58:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grendelbane: The 147 grain JHPs will typically penetrate deeper than the 115 JHPs. So many will prefer them. I find it amusing that some people think the 9mm is so great, but in its modern form, it is closer to .38 Special than anything else, (except for the bullet design). That said, the 115 aren't necessarily a terrible choice, just that they have less penetration. If the bullets don't expand, there won't be much difference between the two. The 147 might do a bit better on bone. what does this mean? |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2024 7:29:23 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tejas1836: what does this mean? It means that the 9x19 Parabellum 147 grain loads and the original .38 Special were very close in diameter, bullet weight and velocity. .38 was a bit heavier at 158 grains and a bit slower, while the 9mm 147 is a bit lighter and a bit faster. Modern day designs allow the 9mm 147s to work today, and the .38 Special also makes use of these improvements, though usually in +p loadings. |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 7:44:20 PM EDT
[#13]
124 is the most energy-efficient for the 9mm cartridge
147 is the most pleasant to shoot 115 has no reason to exist |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 7:49:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bigger_Hammer]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: I think you have that backwards. The key everyone is looking for is Hollow Point expansion. If they fully expand, the difference between 115 and 147 is a fart in the wind. 147 for short barrel, because it doesn't rely on velocity as much, and most HP loads can get to the expansion velocity out of a short barrel. Longer barrel for lighter rounds, to get them up to speed. 115 is cool, because 115 target loads are always the cheapest and easiest to find and train with. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By Ming_The_Merciless: Depends on the pistol it is being fired from. I use 147s for Full sized / Service handguns I use 124 for Micro 9s. Both are very effective. The knock against 115s is that they are very fast so 115 fans shout they have the "highest 'energy'!!" However the key to effective defense handgun rounds is penetration to the vital organs with expansion along the way, not a super fast & quick opening bullet that produces horrible looking but shallow non-fatal wounds. My .02 cents. I think you have that backwards. The key everyone is looking for is Hollow Point expansion. If they fully expand, the difference between 115 and 147 is a fart in the wind. 147 for short barrel, because it doesn't rely on velocity as much, and most HP loads can get to the expansion velocity out of a short barrel. Longer barrel for lighter rounds, to get them up to speed. 115 is cool, because 115 target loads are always the cheapest and easiest to find and train with. You have it backwards. As the other guy said it takes penetration to reach critical organs first & foremost. What do you think happens if the bullet expands wide but shallow & doesn't penetrate deep enough to reach critical organs inside the body? I'd rather shoot a bullet that penetrates 18" to the vitals without expansion than one that expands to double size but only penetrates 7" not reaching the vital organs. It is a fact if the bullet does not reach deep enough to damage or destroy critical organs, it will be ineffective in quickly ending a fight A heavier bullet benefits from a longer barrel to get it up to speed. Heavy bullets are not independent of velocity - too slow & they won't expand. That happened when the first Winchester 147 subsonics were introduced, as they had been designed to be used in Suppressed MP-5SD SMGs. A lighter bullet will accelerate faster in a equal distance which benefits a shorter barrel. Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 1/8/2024 8:00:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dirtydog: 230  |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 10:23:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: You have it backwards. As the other guy said it takes penetration to reach critical organs first & foremost. What do you think happens if the bullet expands wide but shallow & doesn't penetrate deep enough to reach critical organs inside the body? I'd rather shoot a bullet that penetrates 18" to the vitals without expansion than one that expands to double size but only penetrates 7" not reaching the vital organs. It is a fact if the bullet does not reach deep enough to damage or destroy critical organs, it will be ineffective in quickly ending a fight A heavier bullet benefits from a longer barrel to get it up to speed. Heavy bullets are not independent of velocity - too slow & they won't expand. That happened when the first Winchester 147 subsonics were introduced, as they had been designed to be used in Suppressed MP-5SD SMGs. A lighter bullet will accelerate faster in a equal distance which benefits a shorter barrel. Bigger_Hammer Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bigger_Hammer: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By Ming_The_Merciless: Depends on the pistol it is being fired from. I use 147s for Full sized / Service handguns I use 124 for Micro 9s. Both are very effective. The knock against 115s is that they are very fast so 115 fans shout they have the "highest 'energy'!!" However the key to effective defense handgun rounds is penetration to the vital organs with expansion along the way, not a super fast & quick opening bullet that produces horrible looking but shallow non-fatal wounds. My .02 cents. I think you have that backwards. The key everyone is looking for is Hollow Point expansion. If they fully expand, the difference between 115 and 147 is a fart in the wind. 147 for short barrel, because it doesn't rely on velocity as much, and most HP loads can get to the expansion velocity out of a short barrel. Longer barrel for lighter rounds, to get them up to speed. 115 is cool, because 115 target loads are always the cheapest and easiest to find and train with. You have it backwards. As the other guy said it takes penetration to reach critical organs first & foremost. What do you think happens if the bullet expands wide but shallow & doesn't penetrate deep enough to reach critical organs inside the body? I'd rather shoot a bullet that penetrates 18" to the vitals without expansion than one that expands to double size but only penetrates 7" not reaching the vital organs. It is a fact if the bullet does not reach deep enough to damage or destroy critical organs, it will be ineffective in quickly ending a fight A heavier bullet benefits from a longer barrel to get it up to speed. Heavy bullets are not independent of velocity - too slow & they won't expand. That happened when the first Winchester 147 subsonics were introduced, as they had been designed to be used in Suppressed MP-5SD SMGs. A lighter bullet will accelerate faster in a equal distance which benefits a shorter barrel. Bigger_Hammer  Find 2 examples of bullets from 115-147gr 9mm that do that, that are marketed and recommended for defense. There aren't many self defense rounds that won't pass the gel test fbi penetration minimums these days... Which is probably why I didn't bring it up again. Expansion is the next most important factor. Expansion is mostly a factor of bullet design vs the variables presented (velocity, density...) This is the best and most comprehensive test I could find quickly. And it seems there's not enough of a difference to fret over. At best, I would consider this test inconclusive. It compares a lot of brands and bullet designs, but only 5 shots each and lots of inconsistent performance. The one thing to take away is that hollow points are pretty consistently inconsistent. Lucky Gunner test    |
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Posted: 1/8/2024 10:42:34 PM EDT
[#17]
slow and heavy wins in handgun bullets
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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:32:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Momentum is a function of velocity and mass. Heavier bullets require more energy to travel faster. As such 147 grain tends to be slower than 124 in similar loadings. Heavier bullets do tend to retain more momentum in a similar loading. For ball ammo the rule of thumb is the heavier the better.
For modern hollow points it really boils down to how the bullet is designed to perform within a given velocity range. The bullet needs to be traveling fast enough to expand as designed on impact. It needs to retain enough momentum to penetrate to desired depth. If it has to much momentum it may over penetrate and exit. If a HP bullet is traveling to fast, it may expand, separate and expend all of it's energy before reaching the desired penetration. Longer barrel means higher velocity in a handgun. (The point of diminishing returns in 9mm is about 12" for PCC and sub guns.) How a given hollow point load performs varies on barrel length because of the differences in bullet velocity. Lighter HPs seem to provide better results in short barrel guns because they are traveling faster and thus have more reliable expansion. Heavier HPs tend to perform better in full size service pistols because they penetrate deeper. Of course none of that matters if you can't hit what your shooting at. Competitive shooters tend to use heavy bullets because they have less felt recoil. Less recoil means less muzzle flip and faster follow ups. I used to carry 147 grain HST in a full-size handgun and 124 grain HST a sub compact. The real world differences are probably marginal between them. Terminal ballistics are a crap shoot. I got tired of different ammo in different guns. I went to all 147 grain. It shoots well in everything I have. |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:52:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ewald: Momentum is a function of velocity and mass. Heavier bullets require more energy to travel faster. As such 147 grain tends to be slower than 124 in similar loadings. Heavier bullets do tend to retain more momentum in a similar loading. For ball ammo the rule of thumb is the heavier the better. For modern hollow points it really boils down to how the bullet is designed to perform within a given velocity range. The bullet needs to be traveling fast enough to expand as designed on impact. It needs to retain enough momentum to penetrate to desired depth. If it has to much momentum it may over penetrate and exit. If a HP bullet is traveling to fast, it may expand, separate and expend all of it's energy before reaching the desired penetration. Longer barrel means higher velocity in a handgun. (The point of diminishing returns in 9mm is about 12" for PCC and sub guns.) How a given hollow point load performs varies on barrel length because of the differences in bullet velocity. Lighter HPs seem to provide better results in short barrel guns because they are traveling faster and thus have more reliable expansion. Heavier HPs tend to perform better in full size service pistols because they penetrate deeper. Of course none of that matters if you can't hit what your shooting at. Competitive shooters tend to use heavy bullets because they have less felt recoil. Less recoil means less muzzle flip and faster follow ups. I used to carry 147 grain HST in a full-size handgun and 124 grain HST a sub compact. The real world differences are probably marginal between them. Terminal ballistics are a crap shoot. I got tired of different ammo in different guns. I went to all 147 grain. It shoots well in everything I have. I believe that modern 9mm defensive (HP) ammunition is largely differentiated by bullet design. Bullet designs often relies on a velocity threshold to reliably expand. I saw this with the earlier Gold Dot standard pressure ammo out of 3" barrels versus duty sized barrels (4" and longer). There are a lot of choices now where you can select a cartridge based on its performance from your carry and/or HD handgun. I also decided to standardize 9mm SD ammunition from my sub-compact carry and duty sized handguns as well as my AR9 SBR which is Federal P9HST2 (147gr standard pressure), which appears to perform well from all those platforms. I practice with AE9FP for the most part which has the same POI as P9HST2. Since I practice at 25 yards and closer, I don't think it matters all that much. But after a lot of research and experimenting with lots of different ammunition, P9HST2 won out with me. |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 12:01:49 PM EDT
[#20]
124 loaded hot
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Posted: 1/9/2024 12:11:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Thanks for the responses. Although haven't done as much research as some of you have, I tend to gravitate toward 147.
All of my pistols eat 115 and 147 equally well and are close enough at 25-50'. Now if I could only get the pesky Sig to feed with a suppressor on it. |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 7:18:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Me, myself and I have had this debate amongst ourselves..............I really don't know, it seems like splitting hairs at some point. All the high end bullet designs are very good at this point.
That being said, I like the feel of 147's so think that I'll do better with them in a sketchy situation, so go that route with all my 9mm's except my pesky P365XL which seems to only like SIG and Sierra 124 grain hollow points. It'll run many other things but not consistently and at the end of the day, a consistent running gun, running whatever, is going to beat out some wonderful bullet design that won't run consistently. So I ran with reviews, reports and some science for awhile and settled on listening to all of them and finding a round that each gun prefers. That being said, I have a 9mm that won't run anything but FMJ. I do not carry that gun. Not worth it. I'll stick with quality hollow points that each fire arm prefers. |
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Posted: 1/9/2024 7:32:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#23]
Originally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By GlockFudd: I can't decide who is right so I prefer 124 gr..... It doesn't matter how fast or big the bullet is if you don't hit him somewhere where: A) it breaks or shuts off his Central Nervous System and/or B) you can safely wait out the air and blood going out that the threat(s) is (are) no longer a threat. "STANAG 4090 has some basic requirements for NATO-compliant 9mm ammo: "It’s got to be 9mm, and gives the dimensions as such. "Precision must be at least 3″ at 50yds. "Bullet weight must be between 108 grains and 128 grains. "Energy must be between 400ft/lbs and 600 ft/lbs. "Mean pressure cannot exceed 37k PSI and 230MPa. Individual rounds can be as hot as 42.7k PSI and 265MPa. "There are some primer specs. I don’t know if I’d call them hard primers, but they’re definitely not soft. "It needs to be water-proof. "It needs the NATO cross marking on the headstamp. "Velocity and energy are measured from a standard proof barrel of 7.85″ length." |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2024 9:28:29 AM EDT
[#24]
I stock one kind of defensive round for all of my handguns so I split the difference and everything gets fed 124 gr HST. My ARs all get 62 gr Speer Gold Dot for defensive/hunting use.
I'm not trying to buy specific ammo for individual guns. That's ridiculous and expensive. |
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Posted: 1/10/2024 10:11:29 AM EDT
[#25]
124g
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Posted: 1/10/2024 10:26:45 AM EDT
[#26]
124 +P HST is what I trust.
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Posted: 1/11/2024 2:28:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: wood714]
[#27]
I carry a Sig P365, I've ran a lot of these 3 thru it with zero problems. I decided on the Ranger T, mostly because I found a source where I could get a lot. Plus even the little P365 is noticeably quieter suppressed with the Ranger ammo.
For just the hell of it range time, I usually shoot FMJ 115 or 124. 
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Posted: 1/13/2024 10:36:30 PM EDT
[#28]
124+p HST in my pistols 147 standard in my SBR BT APC9k because it has a can and those rounds are subsonic
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Posted: 1/13/2024 11:06:17 PM EDT
[#29]
115s have NEVER had an FTF in my Shield. Not switching.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2024 11:25:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Bigger is better
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Posted: 1/14/2024 12:05:52 AM EDT
[#31]
I’ve been carrying older Remington Golden Saber 124 gr in my carry gun. Usually a G26.
Accurate for me and I picked up a bunch before the last ammo panic. G26 likes the Federal and Hornaday 147 gr just as well so once I work my way thru the GS’s I’ll switch to the heavier. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/14/2024 8:05:14 AM EDT
[#32]
To keep it simple all my 9mm is 124. Self defense or practice. Works for me.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/14/2024 9:04:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MCBallpeen]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Find 2 examples of bullets from 115-147gr 9mm that do that, that are marketed and recommended for defense. There aren't many self defense rounds that won't pass the gel test fbi penetration minimums these days... Which is probably why I didn't bring it up again. Expansion is the next most important factor. Expansion is mostly a factor of bullet design vs the variables presented (velocity, density...) This is the best and most comprehensive test I could find quickly. And it seems there's not enough of a difference to fret over. At best, I would consider this test inconclusive. It compares a lot of brands and bullet designs, but only 5 shots each and lots of inconsistent performance. The one thing to take away is that hollow points are pretty consistently inconsistent. Lucky Gunner test https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576591/Screenshot_20240108-190552-3087380.png https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576591/Screenshot_20240108-190613-3087379.png https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576591/Screenshot_20240108-190637-3087378.png No offense Missilegeek, but they used CLEAR GEL in those tests, and as we all know everything looks good in clear gel. If you want a good representation of what will happen in a human body, you have to use 10% ballistic gel made from pig hooves as done in the FBI tests. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 1:41:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MCBallpeen: No offense Missilegeek, but they used CLEAR GEL in those tests, and as we all know everything looks good in clear gel. If you want a good representation of what will happen in a human body, you have to use 10% ballistic gel made from pig hooves as done in the FBI tests. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MCBallpeen: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Find 2 examples of bullets from 115-147gr 9mm that do that, that are marketed and recommended for defense. There aren't many self defense rounds that won't pass the gel test fbi penetration minimums these days... Which is probably why I didn't bring it up again. Expansion is the next most important factor. Expansion is mostly a factor of bullet design vs the variables presented (velocity, density...) This is the best and most comprehensive test I could find quickly. And it seems there's not enough of a difference to fret over. At best, I would consider this test inconclusive. It compares a lot of brands and bullet designs, but only 5 shots each and lots of inconsistent performance. The one thing to take away is that hollow points are pretty consistently inconsistent. Lucky Gunner test https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576591/Screenshot_20240108-190552-3087380.png https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576591/Screenshot_20240108-190613-3087379.png https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/576591/Screenshot_20240108-190637-3087378.png No offense Missilegeek, but they used CLEAR GEL in those tests, and as we all know everything looks good in clear gel. If you want a good representation of what will happen in a human body, you have to use 10% ballistic gel made from pig hooves as done in the FBI tests. Ok. I'm not proclaiming to be a gel expert. Even in that test, lots of clogging and outliers, within the limited 5 shot groups. Any consistent gel medium is a flawed test anyway, as humans are not a consistent medium. Feel free to post what you think are better test results. I am still of the belief that lack of penetration is not a common issue with 9mm hollow points. Lack of optimal expansion and over penetration is far more common. |
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Posted: 1/14/2024 7:00:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Doesn't matter. Seriously. We spend 90% of our time fretting over which load to use, when all modern loads for standard duty cartridges work pretty much the same in actual people. Hell, even cheap plated FMJ works pretty well, too.
This heretical statement is brought to you by the thousands of GSWs I've autopsied over nearly 4 decades. BTW, for those keeping track, the original load was a 123gr truncated cone bullet at 1070+/- fps (but in metric). Again: it doesn't matter. Things that DO matter in defensive pistol use (in order of importance): 1. mindset / situational awareness 2. reliability of gun / ammo combination 3. 3-D knowledge of human anatomy 4. accuracy 5. something else 6. another thing 7. another something 8. more stuff 9. that other thing 10. what my chosen load does in calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin 11 - 25. a lot of inconsequential stuff 26. what my chosen load does in ClearGel or similar |
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Posted: 1/24/2024 9:46:41 AM EDT
[#36]
124 +P otherwise 147.
It's rare to find 147 +P. 
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USA
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Posted: 1/24/2024 9:37:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _DR: Yep, more energy, more mayhem. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _DR: Originally Posted By Tejas1836: 147 Yep, more energy, more mayhem. If I recall right, back in the day the 124grn/125grn +P load was the cat’s tits. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 7:56:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MemeWarfare: 124 is the most energy-efficient for the 9mm cartridge 147 is the most pleasant to shoot 115 has no reason to exist This |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 9:12:52 AM EDT
[#39]
My personal favorite? "I use 147 grain bullets because they shoot softer while giving more momentum." Well, which is it? You can't have a round with more momentum and have it shoot softer too. It either has more momentum, or it shoots softer. You can't have both at the same time (Newton's laws ring a bell?).
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Posted: 1/25/2024 9:32:41 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MCBallpeen: My personal favorite? "I use 147 grain bullets because they shoot softer while giving more momentum." Well, which is it? You can't have a round with more momentum and have it shoot softer too. It either has more momentum, or it shoots softer. You can't have both at the same time (Newton's laws ring a bell?). Human perception is often flawed. |
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Posted: 1/25/2024 9:44:58 AM EDT
[#41]
Bullet construction needs to be considered. Any hollow point in any weight will outperform any fmj in any weight. Then the fun starts, with gold dots, rangers, silvertips, whatever.
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 11:29:18 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fast99: Thanks for the responses. Although haven't done as much research as some of you have, I tend to gravitate toward 147. All of my pistols eat 115 and 147 equally well and are close enough at 25-50'. Now if I could only get the pesky Sig to feed with a suppressor on it. The only downside with 147 is you on rare occasion may run in to a gun with a tight throat that the 147 ogive touches. Some CZs had that issue chambering 147. My two CZs I tested with a few 147s and could not replicate the claim in my guns. As such I would carry either 124 or 147. I am currently carrying 124 but not the plus P version of HSTs. Why? I like the feel of the cycle for follow ups but the two HSTs were pretty close in feel to my estimation. In .40 and .45 I tended to carry the heavy for caliber because I prefer slow slide speed cycling. In 9 I just couldn’t perceive as much difference between lighter and heavier bullet loadings. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 11:34:13 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ACEB36TC: 115s have NEVER had an FTF in my Shield. Not switching. Good point! ought to be a hierarchy of requirements.. - always chamber and go bang is the first priority! - then sufficient accuracy to hit the target (it’s meaningless if your +p+ causes you to miss half the time, obviously shooter ability dependent variable) - penetration - expansion while maintaining sufficient penetration |
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 11:40:31 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Philmore: I’ve been carrying older Remington Golden Saber 124 gr in my carry gun. Usually a G26. Accurate for me and I picked up a bunch before the last ammo panic. G26 likes the Federal and Hornaday 147 gr just as well so once I work my way thru the GS’s I’ll switch to the heavier. There is nothing at all bad with the Golden Sabre design, they’re a great design. The only issue I hat to watch out for was the bullets loosening up in the case after being chambered and unchambered x amount of times. The jacket material on them dictated that they have a driving band that didn’t reach up the parallel sides of the ogive as far. Not having the full contact as could otherwise be had with the case wall let’s the bullet get worked loose after multiple chamberings for administrative loading/unloading. I saw this in my .45 ACP carry load. Me being thrifty would resize the case, reseat and crimp and get rid of them on the next practice session and redouble my efforts in rotating the ammo position in the magazine so the top rounds didn’t get all the bashing. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 11:48:13 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Orion10182011: Human perception is often flawed. Exactly.....the perception of slide speed I think is whaat most people feel. Heavy bullets to me always felt slower in slide speed and just tend to suit my timing of recovery for the follow up shot. The faster slide speed with hot light loads may get the gun back in to battery faster by x milliseconds but the slide bottoming out the recoil spring was more disturbing to my aim than the slow/heavy. I noticed this mostly in the G22 much preferring 180s to the lighter options. Less an issue in the 1911 between 230s and 185 grain silver tip ash trays of the day. I am dating myself here. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/25/2024 11:57:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Orion10182011: Human perception is often flawed. VERY TRUE but the human component cannot be completely tossed out. If a shooter does significantly better keeping on target with a combo that is nearly as adequate then that is a sensible decision. Ie a shooter cannot hit shit with a .357 magnum 125 jhp but can consistently make well centered timely hits with a +p .38 load in the same gun then that is what that shooter should use despite the 125 .357 magnum being a well regarded man stopper. Same with 9mm +p or not +p. I like non +p. I can shoot them both being a fatso with 30 years of handgunning but I like the slower one as 30 extra fps for the blast/slide violence and a little extra muzzle flip is not worth it when by all rights the regular 147 or 124 hst in my 43x has sufficient expansion and penetration. |
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Posted: 2/4/2024 4:42:19 PM EDT
[#47]
I stock 124gr HST as the tests I've seen seem to show it works better in short barrels (p365) while still working nicely in full size handguns. Makes stocking training ammunition easier as similar velocity 124gr ball is easily sourced.
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Posted: 2/5/2024 12:02:00 AM EDT
[#48]
My P30sk is a lazer with the Hornady critical duty 135gr +P rounds.
So naturally, I'm biased against the usual 124 vs 145 grain debate. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/8/2024 4:03:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Bullet construction is more important than bullet weight. Pick something off of Doc GKR's list that you can find in stock in quantity. Shoot it to confirm it works with your gun and sights. Practice with a load that has similar recoil and point of impact.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 6:14:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Back 20+ years ago I only carried Federal 115JHP (9BP) and the +P version (9BPLE).
I carried the +P version in my Glocks, CZ, Sig, etc. and the non +P version in my S&W 940 revolver and Hi-Power. I switched to heaver 124gr +P and 147gr standard pressure ammo when I started shooting trapped and/or dead feral hogs with these ammo and found bullet usually did not exit on side shoulder shots on medium size hogs. They almost always expanded but rarely exited and when it hit bones. This observation was not anything close to scientific but seen it enough times to see that it wasn't just my imagination. I figured two holes are better than one so I switch to heavier bullets to get exit holes. |
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