Quoted:
GLOCK
GLOCK
GLOCK
GLOCK
GLOCK

Quoted:
There is a reason the 1911 & CZ design was copied and manufactured by others.......
( Its not because either is a POS and problematic )


If you have  an issue with the gun / design / caliber then buy something else but you sound like a nit wit picking nits.

Quoted:
Here is what all those small complicated crummy parts look like after 10k rounds without cleaning.  

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-W2DvvDH/1/M/i-W2DvvDH-M.jpg

This is my bullseye match gun frame and it runs 100% all the time, filthy.  I clean it every two years whether it needs it or not.  But I do use a baggie and cringe every time I have to take it apart.  This one has 33k rounds on it now.  Guess that makes me a CZ fanboy.

Joe

Quoted:
Here is what all those small complicated crummy parts look like after 10k rounds without cleaning.  

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-W2DvvDH/1/M/i-W2DvvDH-M.jpg

This is my bullseye match gun frame and it runs 100% all the time, filthy.  I clean it every two years whether it needs it or not.  But I do use a baggie and cringe every time I have to take it apart.  This one has 33k rounds on it now.  Guess that makes me a CZ fanboy.

Joe

Quoted:
Here is what all those small complicated crummy parts look like after 10k rounds without cleaning.  

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-W2DvvDH/1/M/i-W2DvvDH-M.jpg

This is my bullseye match gun frame and it runs 100% all the time, filthy.  I clean it every two years whether it needs it or not.  But I do use a baggie and cringe every time I have to take it apart.  This one has 33k rounds on it now.  Guess that makes me a CZ fanboy.

Joe

Quoted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_75

The countries that copied the CZ design are listed on the bottom along with various users.

The CZ PO1 passed NATO certification which is far from a cake walk.so IF you deem the CZ design problematic try subjecting your preferred firearm to the same test.

Other 9mm NATO handguns that passed :

CZ-PO1
Glock 17
Glock 19
Sig 226 Used by Canada
Sig 228
Hi-Power - used by U.K., Canada
Beretta M 9 - used by U.S.
CZ 75 B





NATO approval test ~

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

Heritage:
The P-01 is based on the CZ 75, the most used pistol in the world. Over 60 countries use it as the standard side arm of their Armies, National police forces, National security agencies or other Law enforcement organizations. No other pistol can make this claim.

Quoted:
My P-01. Still runs too.

<a href="http://s292.photobucket.com/user/jdubya87/media/20150520_081940_zps0pehdcst.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm15/jdubya87/20150520_081940_zps0pehdcst.jpg</a>

Quoted:
The store I work @ has Turkish CZ 75 copies, that cock & lock, and a CZ 75 model that only decocks.  Just beginning to learn about the CZ 75 platform - are the clones parts interchangeable?  Obviously, an Italian 10mm or .45"ACP gun won't change parts w/ a CZ 75B - but will the Turkish 9x19mm guns I have exchange parts?  I try to put folks into platforms, rather than just a gun, and I'm trying to learn how interchangeable the CZ 75 platform is.

Quoted:


The store I work @ has Turkish CZ 75 copies, that cock & lock, and a CZ 75 model that only decocks.  Just beginning to learn about the CZ 75 platform - are the clones parts interchangeable?  Obviously, an Italian 10mm or .45"ACP gun won't change parts w/ a CZ 75B - but will the Turkish 9x19mm guns I have exchange parts?  I try to put folks into platforms, rather than just a gun, and I'm trying to learn how interchangeable the CZ 75 platform is.

Quoted:
Yes, this is the mythical NATO testing that I was referring to.  The CZ-USA press release is quoted verbatim below.  Nowhere does CZ-USA claim any sort of NATO testing.  CZ-USA starts out talking about "NATO approval" and then launchs into the results of the Czech National Police testing.  CZ-USA's clever writing melds the two subjects, allowing the reader to come to a wrong conclusion.  I bolded two references to Czech National Police requirements in the press release.  NATO "approval" and issuing a NATO stock number allows tracking of the item in the NATO material management system - nothing more.  If you sold toothbrushes to NATO, they too would get a NATO stock number.

You inserting the words "NATO approval test" into your post does not make it so.

Your own Wikipedia reference explains that the CZ-75 design was widely copied because the design does not have the usual patent protection outside of Czechoslovakia.


CZ P-01 gets NATO approval. The next Generation of perfect pistols


February 2003

The P-01 is now a NATO classified pistol and issued the NATO stock number NSN 1005-16-000-8619.

The CZ P-01 is the culmination of several years of exhaustive design and testing. Ceska Zbrojovka has always had some of the most rigorous testing requirements in the world but, the Czech National police has required that they go even further, the testing regiment for this new pistol was the most demanding anyone has ever encountered. There are almost 20 specific requirements covering everything from accuracy to interchangability, from safety to reliability/durability and everything in between.

The pistol: The CZ P-01 is a Gen 3 pistol that began as a requirement for a lightweight compact pistol that will deliver the accuracy and durability of a full size, full weight pistol. This was no small task, several manufacturers declined to even start the project.

The first thing you notice about this pistol is the M3 light rail on the frame, a first for CZ, the alloy frame is a little wider at the top than a steel CZ 75. This adds strength and rigidity for mounting the light and increasing the accuracy and service life of the pistol. The P-01 also sports enhanced controls as well as a drop free magazine and a lanyard loop.

The pistol was required to pass a wide variety of tests:

The police required that the pistol ensure the highest level of comfort, an extended slide release was added as well as an extended magazine release and the trigger was reshaped to give a more consistent pull throughout the trigger stroke.

The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.

Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

Heritage:
The P-01 is based on the CZ 75, the most used pistol in the world. Over 60 countries use it as the standard side arm of their Armies, National police forces, National security agencies or other Law enforcement organizations. No other pistol can make this claim.

Quoted:
Was there ever a point to this thread ?

Quoted:
Ya, I was thinking maybe CZ stole his girlfriend or beat him up as a child, stole his lunch money and then decocked 'im.

Quoted:
I own five CZ firearms and have recently been doing a lot of work on my CZ-75B to fix some problems.  As a retired mechanical engineer, I generally enjoy tinkering with things and I've probably spent around 20 hours recently working on my CZ-75B.  Below are my observations on the CZ-75B design and below that are the details on the two problems that I've been working on.

Observations

1) The CZ-75 is a "fussy" design with lots of small parts compared to, say, a Glock.  Even though the Glock was introduced not that long after the CZ-75, the Glock is a modern pistol design while the CZ-75 is an old school design.  Smith and Wesson tried to compete with Glock for years with traditional metal framed pistols and eventually gave up and went to a Glock clone (the M&P).  After working on the innards of a CZ-75, it surprises me that ANY CZ-75s are reliable, although many of them reportedly are.

2) CZ does not appear to make much effort in the maintainability of their guns.  For example, I needed to drive out the trigger pin which is sort of staked into the frame.  This took a lot of pounding on a punch.  I talked to a CZ gunsmith who told me that the trigger pins are installed at the factory using a proprietary tool which CZ does not make available outside the factory.  He also said that once the pin is removed and then reinstalled, the trigger pin is likely to eventually walk out.  The solution seems to be an aftermarket trigger pin.  Compare this to Glock pins that can be removed with only hand pressure in a few seconds.

3)  Not only does the CZ-75 contain a lot of parts, but the parts are relatively expensive.  Also, some of the parts can only be obtained through CZ-USA which (in my experience) has less-than-stellar customer service (maybe having a monopoly will do that to you).  Again, contrasting with Glock whose parts are much cheaper and readily available from several sources.

4) I've concluded that, for me, the advantages of the CZ-75 (great ergonomics and accuracy) do not outweigh the disadvantages described above.  One of the reasons I purchased the CZ-75 was that it was a traditional, metal framed, external hammer design and every year there are fewer guns like this in the marketplace.  Maybe that should have been a clue.

Details

1) One of the problems I had with my CZ-75 was sporadic failure of the trigger to reset.  I traced the problem to a slight bowing of one side of the trigger bow.  The CZ-75 has two trigger bars that are joined at the front and at the back to form a rectangle (hence the term "trigger bow" instead of "trigger bar").  The sides of trigger bow are high, but thin.  In theory, a trigger bow provides redundancy because it contains two trigger bars.  In practice, the redundancy is limited because a problem with one of the trigger bars (one side of the trigger bow) can cause problems.   This is analogous to small (piston) two engine aircraft.  In theory, one of the engines can fail and the aircraft will still fly.  The problem is that the aircraft can be difficult to fly on one engine or as pilots say, the second engine will fly you to the crash site.  This is why the accident rate of small two engine aircraft is higher than small single engine aircraft.  Back to the CZ-75.  Part of the trigger reset function is provided by a wire spring which exerts upward pressure on the trigger bow.  The legs of the spring rest in tiny grooves on the underside of the thin sides of the trigger bow.  My problem was that because one side of the trigger bow was bent, the spring leg rested between the trigger bow and the inside of the receiver and could not directly exert upward force on that side of the trigger bow so the trigger would sometimes not reset.  The bowing of the trigger bar was minor and it took me a long time peering into the gun to notice it.  When I removed the trigger bow from the gun and measured the bowing, it was only 0.003", but that was enough space to allow the spring wire to wedge between the trigger bar and the receiver.  This doesn't seem like a very fault tolerant design to me.  I fixed the problem by replacing the trigger bow.

2) Another problem I had was premature lock back of the slide (slide locking back even though there was still ammo in the magazine).  Apparently, this is a common problem with CZ-75s.  Again, I spent a lot of time peering into the inside of the gun.  The slide release lever has a notch on the bottom which is pushed upward by the magazine follower when the magazine is empty.  Pushing upward on this notch also pushes upward on the slide release lever which engages the slide and locks it back.  My problem was that if the second round in the magazine moves a bit forward (maybe 2 millimeters) the side of bullet can engage the notch as the second round rises to the top of the magazine as the first round is chambered.  I examined the notch and concluded that the notch was thick enough to remove some of it without preventing empty magazine lock back.  I filed away about a third of the notch.  This reduced the problem, but it hasn't gone away entirely because the second round can still cause premature lock back, but the round has to be forward a bit more than before.  I'm still working on this problem.  I haven't determined how much forward a "good" magazine will allow a round to move.    

Quoted:
Wow, saw that first post and was very confused.

I have a 75 BD and it is by far the most reliable and accurate gun I have.  Yep, it's pure Czech stock, no switched out springs, pins, etc.  I'm pretty sure the Czechs know better about how their platform works than I am.  Also, comparing the 75 to a Glock just makes no sense (in my opinion).  It's funny that the OP would be talking about the 75 like its a dinosaur, considering the numerous variants and clones that continue to be released.  Heck, I've heard that 4 or 5 more shooters at the local USPSA matches are running a 75 of some sort now.  Doesn't seem to me that it's dying off.  

Quoted:  If the 75 is a dinosaur, why are people still using the ever unreliable, jam-o-matic 1911?

Quoted:
Hope all of you have a wonderful summer.

I hear that living in your parents' basement is not all that bad.   Sure beats living in your car.

Wish I could be more optimistic, but lots of the good jobs have left the US and aren't coming back.  Want to see your future?  Look at Greece (the southern European country, not what you cook your food in).  Somehow, I get the impression that many of you are not much at reading.  Ask one of your nice high school teachers and maybe he will explain Greece, quantitative easing, and economic meltdown.

Quoted:
Here is what all those small complicated crummy parts look like after 10k rounds without cleaning.  

http://joelynch.smugmug.com/photos/i-W2DvvDH/1/M/i-W2DvvDH-M.jpg

This is my bullseye match gun frame and it runs 100% all the time, filthy.  I clean it every two years whether it needs it or not.  But I do use a baggie and cringe every time I have to take it apart.  This one has 33k rounds on it now.  Guess that makes me a CZ fanboy.

Joe

Quoted:
Hope all of you have a wonderful summer.

I hear that living in your parents' basement is not all that bad.   Sure beats living in your car.

Wish I could be more optimistic, but lots of the good jobs have left the US and aren't coming back.  Want to see your future?  Look at Greece (the southern European country, not what you cook your food in).  Somehow, I get the impression that many of you are not much at reading.  Ask one of your nice high school teachers and maybe he will explain Greece, quantitative easing, and economic meltdown.