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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:29:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: arowneragain]
Very, very old house in structurally great shape with the exception of a porch covering. It was in the shade, stayed damp, grew moss, rotted.
Porch is fine. It’s the covering/roof that’s the problem. I need to remove this so it can be rebuilt. It’s pretty typical construction: 4x4” posts hold up the front of the rafters(?) and they’re nailed to the exterior wall of the house. These rafters are covered with plywood. Plywood covered in roof shingles. Flashing attached to the exterior house wall. This little roof is so rotten that maybe 1/3 of the plywood has collapsed. Rain runs right through it. I suspect the root of the problem is shoddy original construction, combined with moisture from the shady side of the house. My thoughts are this: if I start sledgehammering it loose I’ll bring it down on my head. If I try to saw it loose I’ll likely bring it down on my head *all at once*. My plan is to take 3 2x4 studs. Screw one across the center of the underside of the rafters, use two others under the first as vertical supports about 1/3 the way across the porch from either side. Use a coarse (24t) saw blade to cut completely across the top of the porch to sever the few remaining solid roof sections. Cut the remaining upper end of the rafters from underneath. Lastly cut the lower end of the rafters where they attach to the porch front uprights, leaving the whole thing balanced on my 3 new 2x4s. Push the whole thing over into the yard, then use a hammer and crowbar to remove the remaining pieces. I’d like to not get hurt in the process. Is there a better way? |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:43:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Backhoe
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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:46:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Juan.
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MP, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:56:30 AM EDT
[#3]
It's always way, way, way worse underneath once you start peeling.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:57:36 AM EDT
[#4]
Y'all don't understand. I am Juan and I am the backhoe, on this project.
I need to learn how to do it as much as anything, but also, there is no budget to hire it out. Long story. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:59:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Underscore_O_Three: It's always way, way, way worse underneath once you start peeling. I can't see underneath. I'm aware that the exterior wall could be compromised. I don't *think* it is. Obviously I can't know for sure, yet. I have, twice now, in the course of doing real estate stuff, seen houses where treated decking boards were attached to untreated framing boards, with predictable results. I don't *think* that will be the case here, but can't know yet. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:01:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Paul]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd: Backhoe Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd: Backhoe Excavator with a thumb. That puts more distance between you and falling stuff. ya 'all don't understand. I am Juan and I am the backhoe, on this project. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:02:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Yes. Building a contraption to suspend the entire thing in the air and then pushing it into the yard in one huge, elevated piece is what anyone qualified to do this work would do. Nailed it.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:05:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Homernomer: Yes. Building a contraption to suspend the entire thing in the air and then pushing it into the yard in one huge, elevated piece is what anyone qualified to do this work would do. Nailed it. ....which is why I asked for advice. If you have a better idea, please share. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:06:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Imho, start from the top down. I would not try your idea. Peel off the roof and rafters layer by layer
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:10:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dropdbombnow: Juan. A man of experience. You can get a lot of work done in the Home Depot parking lot. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:14:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Don't be a pansy.
I was helping a friend demo his condo to the studs. I was tasked with taking down the sheet rock ceiling in the living room. I jammed a crowbar through it and pulled. The whole thing came down in one big sheet. Unfortunately there were two other guys in the room with me at the time. Nobody got really hurt and, when they were done screaming I told them that they should be more careful in the future when I was working. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:19:42 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:20:29 PM EDT
[#13]
post some pics
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Posted: 3/24/2024 1:05:39 PM EDT
[#14]
You don't say how big the porch and roof are, is it a 6ft x 6ft entry porch to protect from rain as you unlock the door, or is it 48ft x 20ft porch to use as an outdoor room? The bigger the porch, the worse your demo plan is for safety reasons. At the same time I wonder at the capability to use a sawzall etc to cut the porch roof into sections because of the conditions you describe.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 1:11:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Come on Arfcom, you guys are slipping, The only way is with a Truck and a Chain.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 1:25:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By engineer61: You don't say how big the porch and roof are, is it a 6ft x 6ft entry porch to protect from rain as you unlock the door, or is it 48ft x 20ft porch to use as an outdoor room? The bigger the porch, the worse your demo plan is for safety reasons. At the same time I wonder at the capability to use a sawzall etc to cut the porch roof into sections because of the conditions you describe. I don't have pictures but it's ~12x8'. Maybe 15x8'. I didn't measure it. Again, it's just rafters, plywood, one layer of shingles, attached to a header that's attached to the side of the house. I either cut the whole thing loose as described in the OP, or I remove the shingles while trying not to fall through the rotten plywood. I suppose it is *remotely* possible that I could remove the plywood and shingles and keep the rafters in place and sister new rafters to them to allow a new roof deck and roof to be installed and flash it properly this time. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 1:26:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlienHunter: Come on Arfcom, you guys are slipping, The only way is with a Truck and a Chain. Beat me to it. I was going to suggest some tow ropes and a pickup truck with 4WD. A case of Busch Lite may also be mandatory. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 1:47:39 PM EDT
[#18]
On old homes I always disassemble in reverse order it was built. Just because you can't see any rot/damage at the house/main structure, doesn't mean it isn't there. To start ripping into something like what you've mentioned, take your time.... start with peeling the roofing, then the sheeting, then the rafters, etc.. When I was doing rehabs on 100+ year old houses and buildings, this was the approach due to hidden dangers, plus you never know what you can re-purpose, or what you might find.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 2:33:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Cherry picker or lift and pull up the shingles, then start in from the top with a Sawzall so you can see the state of the studs and paneling. Reduce the weight from the top to avoid collapse.
Don't climb on it on top, and turn off the power to the house before you start in case there is electric in it somewhere. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 2:38:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By engineer61: You don't say how big the porch and roof are, is it a 6ft x 6ft entry porch to protect from rain as you unlock the door, or is it 48ft x 20ft porch to use as an outdoor room? The bigger the porch, the worse your demo plan is for safety reasons. At the same time I wonder at the capability to use a sawzall etc to cut the porch roof into sections because of the conditions you describe. This sawzall portions and have 2x4 frame/support cradle underneath each portion. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 2:38:23 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli: Cherry picker or lift and pull up the shingles, then start in from the top with a Sawzall so you can see the state of the studs and paneling. Reduce the weight from the top to avoid collapse. Don't climb on it on top, and turn off the power to the house before you start in case there is electric in it somewhere. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 2:39:14 PM EDT
[#22]
If the plywood is rotten the shingles should come off fairly easy. I would start there. They represent a large portion of
the overall weight of that structure. Once you get them off you should a better idea how to disassemble, Safely. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 2:53:16 PM EDT
[#23]
What’s the dimensions? Got any pics?
If you don’t want to drop it as a whole, nail a few 2x to the rafters as vertical bracing along its length, front and back. Nail a ledger along the house horizontally under the back of the roof. Sawzall with a big demo blade, cut off manageable sections and remove. I’m guessing you’re gonna have some work to do with the structure itself where the porch tied in. Probably considerable water damage to, and behind whatever the house is faced with.where that porch roof attached, including structural components. Doubt there was any flashing. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:09:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wisbiker67: Imho, start from the top down. I would not try your idea. Peel off the roof and rafters layer by layer This. Take it apart piece by piece. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:13:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Peel off the shingles and sheathing, then knock out the frame members individually.
If it is as rotted as you say, you won't even need tools to peel off the plywood. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:17:52 PM EDT
[#26]
You got a truck and a chain?
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:18:12 PM EDT
[#27]
50/50 mix of used motor oil and diesel.
light with a road flare. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:19:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Tannerite
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:20:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlienHunter: Come on Arfcom, you guys are slipping, The only way is with a Truck and a Chain. All you need is a truck, just drive through it. Sigh, this forum isn't like it used to be. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:24:58 PM EDT
[#30]
If the framing is in decent shape but the sheeting is rotten, toss a 2x8 sheet of 3/4 on the roof and stand on that while you peel the shingles off and cut the roof sheeting back into manageable pieces.
If the framing is questionable at the connection to the wall - build temporary shoring underneath, posts and a header of some sort to support the rafters while you dissemble the roof . build a work platform from pallet racking, scaffolding, baker scaffold etc , chop holes through the roofing and cut everything apart into manageable pieces with a sawzall/chainsaw/skilsaw from underneath , leaving the rafters until you figure out if they're rotten. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:25:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Pictures aren't loading.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:30:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HangfiresGhost: A man of experience. You can get a lot of work done in the Home Depot parking lot. Never seen one dude outside a Home Depot looking for work. Not one. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:32:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wisbiker67: Imho, start from the top down. I would not try your idea. Peel off the roof and rafters layer by layer I'd probably use the same method, but I'd incorporate 2 or more sheets of 3/4 plywood to place on the roof as I removed the shingles from the soffit towards the house, then work backwards removing the plywood from the house out towards the soffit. remove enough shingles to lay down a sheet of your plywood to kneel/stand on, remove more shingles, another piece of plywood, then more shingles, then hopscotch your first piece of plywood to kneel/stand on, so on and so forth. That way you have something sturdy to prevent you from falling thru rotten roof sheeting and you can see any issues as you remove the shingles, then the sheeting. YMMV |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:34:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azjogol: On old homes I always disassemble in reverse order it was built. Just because you can't see any rot/damage at the house/main structure, doesn't mean it isn't there. To start ripping into something like what you've mentioned, take your time.... start with peeling the roofing, then the sheeting, then the rafters, etc.. When I was doing rehabs on 100+ year old houses and buildings, this was the approach due to hidden dangers, plus you never know what you can re-purpose, or what you might find. This |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:41:01 PM EDT
[#35]
As mentioned before, you may have electric wiring in there. And if so, if the house is old enough, there could be bare wires running from insulator to insulator (as was done years ago).
Also, people mention taking the shingles off. The more weight this project is reduced before you lose control, the better your outcome will be. Don't do this alone. I don't mean to sound so serious, but ham radio operators raising or working on a tower (even small) are advised to have one person whose sole job is to call 911 if something goes wrong. I think this applies here. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:54:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Take your time take all the shingles off first Then the rotted out ply wood
then use a saw zall to cut out the existing framing ,key word take your time . |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 3:57:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Alright guys. Thanks.
I'll still build the frame underneath as described in the OP, then remove shingles first, plywood second. I suspect the plywood will come off with the shingles. I'll throw a layer of plywood or a couple 2x6s on the roof as walkboards since I obviously can't trust the roof itself. And of course I'll check the rafters before that. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 4:01:33 PM EDT
[#38]
I took down a half-built patio cover that the previous owner put up. It was termite-eaten and severely weakened.
I started at the top - removing the smallest, lightest pieces with a crowbar and a sawzall, and lowered the pieces to the ground. I had it easy - the patio is a concrete slab. I don’t have the confidence to try the same thing when the ladder is sitting on a similarly rotted wood deck. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 4:08:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Don’t demolish, disassemble in reverse order with a flat bar and nail puller, occasional Sawzall where you can’t get to a
nail. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 4:53:39 PM EDT
[#40]
On these projects you start out with a plan but need to stay mentally flexible as the project goes on as most surely the original plan will have some faults.
You want something that works and you may also come to the conclusion that some other way is ,faster , cheaper , safer or "just as good but easier" . Also be aware that if a roof (designed to make water run off) gets to the point it is in total failure there is going to be rot that doesn't show until you get into the project. These unexpected soft and rotten spots always are difficult to tear out (only solution to rot or water intrusion) so the end result is more time , harder work and most certainly more cost . Wish the OP the best in his project but from the description of the existing failed porch roof I have got to think it will get most ugly . In short , Cut or rip out all the rot and decay. Cut out some more so you have room to work Replace all the stuff you ripped out with new material and build a new roof , shingles and needed flashing . Haul away the pile of nasty stuff. Paint as necessary |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 5:02:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKH: Never seen one dude outside a Home Depot looking for work. Not one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKH: Originally Posted By HangfiresGhost: A man of experience. You can get a lot of work done in the Home Depot parking lot. Never seen one dude outside a Home Depot looking for work. Not one. Me too...! I go to 3 HD's and have never seen one... |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 5:07:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Noname: Me too...! I go to 3 HD's and have never seen one... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Noname: Originally Posted By HKH: Originally Posted By HangfiresGhost: A man of experience. You can get a lot of work done in the Home Depot parking lot. Never seen one dude outside a Home Depot looking for work. Not one. Me too...! I go to 3 HD's and have never seen one... 30 years in the trades I have never seen a HD without them, in multiple states. You guys are probably showing up at 9 when they have already been picked up for the day. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 5:10:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Set 3 lbs of tannerite on the porch, one 62 grain bullet and stand back
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Posted: 3/24/2024 5:24:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Can you get a off-road forklift in front to just lift it?
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Posted: 3/24/2024 5:28:17 PM EDT
[#45]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 5:55:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Top down, get a saws all and a long ruff cut blades. If you know of any electric is running through the are kill the breakers. Now locate your rafters and do a plunge cut between them. the rest should be pretty obvious.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 8:37:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NWRed]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaliContractor: 30 years in the trades I have never seen a HD without them, in multiple states. You guys are probably showing up at 9 when they have already been picked up for the day. There's never any at my local store, any day of the week at any time. At the next closest store, it's the same, never seen any ever. 10 miles away in a larger town there's ALWAYS 5-20 guys milling around at the far end of the parking lot every day between 6am -4pm It's definitely a more urban thing - both in the volume of available work opportunities and the in proximity to where the day laborers live I'm assuming. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 9:21:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jchewie1]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wisbiker67: Imho, start from the top down. I would not try your idea. Peel off the roof and rafters layer by layer This. Use two step ladders and a plank or two extension ladders with jacks and a plank, or a couple small sections of scaffolding and a plank or pick, depending on the site, work from the front edge, peel/cut/remove shingle, roof decking, etc in small sections and easy to handle pieces, up to the siding on the house, evaluate what is truly rotten vs what might just need reinforcement. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:57:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: arowneragain]
[#49]
So….
Upon further examination there was a 6’ wide section of the porch (actual size 8’x20’) with basically no rot in the rafters or the tongue and groove under the (50 year old cedar shake) shingles. I braced that end from underneath and climbed up that side (from the end) on the ladder and started removing roof. The roof was a mess. Moss and rotten wood. But amazingly, the flashing has held tight and the entire upper 12” to 18” of the roof had a rock solid tongue and groove underlay. The end I started on was 98% solid, for about 6’. I climbed up on that end from the low end, crawled to the top, and started yanking boards off with a pry bar. After that section was done I was tired of being on the roof so I took my sledgehammer and started exploring which tongue&groove could be loosened from the rafters. Turns out, a large chunk of it loosened easily due to the condition of the wood loosening the nails. I then knocked a hole in one weak spot, ran a ledger(?) u set the rafters to brace them and lean my ladder on, and was able to do a bunch more standing in the ladder. Long story short, it’s 90% demolished, with no injuries to me, save one: GD will be happy to know that I was pulling the flat pry-bar towards my face to loosen one of the not-rotten tongue & groove boards. It slipped, and I punched myself with the smooth part of the hooked end, and bloodied my nose - inside and out. Ouch. But the roof is now 90% removed.   Eta: And fortunately the attachment to the house wall appears solid. The rafters are in varying states of decay and will be replaced. Eta2: the roof underlayment wasn’t plywood, it was t&g. Maybe 1x6? |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:06:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Ladder (looks like you used one) up against the wall, saws-all 6" from house with a weight on a rope over one of the branches out from the porch to make sure it swings away from you, job's a good'n.
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