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Posted: 3/19/2024 4:36:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Not with this gun. My rounds were landing feet left, right, high and low
Friend also shot it, he too had bad impacts far away from the target. I responded in the reloading forum thread, and just made it through all 7 pages of this version. It seems like each time someone tries to help you along, you come up with yet another reason why it absolutely has to be the gun. I don't doubt it is likely the gun, but before throwing money at it, eliminate all the cheap variables. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 5:49:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Originally Posted By rabidus: Groupings were 8" @ 12 yards using 135gr Nosler and 200gr Montana Bullet Works. Moved COL out, in, tried the full powder charge as recommended by Hodgdon. All were absolute crap groups. Also tried different charges using different COLs. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 5:58:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: shotar]
[#3]
This is a known quantity in 10mm glock barrels. They shoot cast 200gr bullets poorly. It is a bad combination. People buy kkm barrels to solve this problem. Powder coated 175s shoot ok, but the polygonal rifling does not engage hardcast well, and the 200s for whatever reason are worse.
To the nay sayers, I'm betting you have no experience with this combo of ammo and pistol. It's not that the gun or ammo are bad on their own, it's that they don't play well together. Now, as to the people who think they are good shots until they see someone who actually is a good shot, perhaps motivation for improvement rather than derision. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 9:11:44 AM EDT
[#4]
I think OP is smart. I do the same thing when I get a new gun.
I tear it apart and make sure I find something wrong so when I can't shoot it I know what to blame. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2024 9:27:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kingdead: If you are going to accuse a manufacturer of being out of spec then you need to make an accurate measurement. Using a set of calipers to measure a smaller round hole is not an accurate measurement. I would only trust OP's measurement to be accurate within 0.010 or 0.015" of the real measurement. I'm not going to explain why using a set of calipers is not an accurate way to measure a hole. OP has wasted enough of my life on this stupid thread. It's like a long drawn out safe thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kingdead: Originally Posted By boomeruni: I do enjoy how many people think every person has a toolbox full of every high end tool for randomly measuring this or that. Sure a single pin gauge isn't that expensive, but why would he buy one for this? One guy recommended a starrett 78 which is what 900-1000? I only have a box full of shit because my grandpa and dad were machinists. No way random dude is spending thousands of dollars to measure their reloads and a random hole here and there. IMO, complete BS. Dial calipers are probably the most popular precision measuring tool on the planet. Why? Because they work just fine for 87% of the applications that one might encounter. Hornady and other sell cheap calipers because they are quite adequate for the job at hand. Does one really need to measure case diameter or overall length down to a "tenth"? No. The little bit of machining that I do is mostly tooling like bushing drivers for rebuilding transmissions and hydraulic rams. +/- .001 is within the capability of a dial caliper and, again, quite adequate for the job at hand. I use standard micrometers for cylinder bores, shafts, crankshaft journals, etc. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 9:36:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Actually, I messed that all up. Paying attention to too much....again.  .00045. 45 hundred thousandths, nearly ten times fifty millionths, what we'd call four and a half tenths which really messes with normal people, and even worse for people who use metric who work in microns who would call it 11. Weirdos. Still not as bad as tire people referring to 4/32 of tread.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By mudholestomper:  Actually, I messed that all up. Paying attention to too much....again. .00045. 45 hundred thousandths, nearly ten times fifty millionths, what we'd call four and a half tenths which really messes with normal people, and even worse for people who use metric who work in microns who would call it 11. Weirdos. Still not as bad as tire people referring to 4/32 of tread. I thought 45 ten thousandths was wrong but didnt wanna say nothing. I thought it should of either been in hundred thousandths or 4.5 ten thousandths. But then I got to questioning myself. Its been a awhile since I've dealt with such measurements.
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:06:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: I took many measurements and some were .432" .4325" etc.. I know my hand is not steady but I used a fair amount of pressure to push the caliper to make as much contact on the chamber as possible. As I squeezed, the numbers shrank. It's all I have/had to be able to give data for this thread. I couldn't start the thread with, "Hey fellow firearms enthusiasts, I just fired my new Glock 10mm. I noticed when reloading my ammo, the cartridge rattled in the chamber and my groups were 8" or more. What could be wrong with the gun?" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By zephyr: It's a $30 caliper. You may find this surprising. I took a set of cheap Hornady calipers to a USAF PMEL once as a joke and had them checked on their ceramic block things. I was there with an inspection team doing a compliance inspection. The $35 Hornady calipers passed all requirements and the kids even put a PMEL sticker on the box as a joke. My point is, OP's calipers are likely fine. The issue you have with calipers or any hand measurement tool is operator error. Not surprised at all. Pro machinists sneer at dial calipers but, if one is not doing aerospace-level work and .001 is "good enough", they are fine. Operator technique is a factor in using any precision measuring device. A gentle touch on the caliper thumbwheel or the micrometer thimble (It's not ##### c-clamp!) will produce accurate, repeatable results. Modern dial calipers are awesome compared to old-school vernier units that were like a slide rule. I took many measurements and some were .432" .4325" etc.. I know my hand is not steady but I used a fair amount of pressure to push the caliper to make as much contact on the chamber as possible. As I squeezed, the numbers shrank. It's all I have/had to be able to give data for this thread. I couldn't start the thread with, "Hey fellow firearms enthusiasts, I just fired my new Glock 10mm. I noticed when reloading my ammo, the cartridge rattled in the chamber and my groups were 8" or more. What could be wrong with the gun?" Pro's don't sneer at dial calipers. Digital is preferred in some shops for speed and reduced errors when reading the measurement. Vernier calipers are painful, despite everyone's skill reading a micrometer, it ain't the same. The issue with attempting precision inside measurements with a caliper are the flats ground into the jaws. Close, but not precision. The error depends on the part radius of curvature, the smaller the radius, the greater the error. The error is negligible on huge radii. Don't buy plastic guns. Metal >> plastic. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:32:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Pro's don't sneer at dial calipers. Digital is preferred in some shops for speed and reduced errors when reading the measurement. Vernier calipers are painful, despite everyone's skill reading a micrometer, it ain't the same. The issue with attempting precision inside measurements with a caliper are the flats ground into the jaws. Close, but not precision. The error depends on the part radius of curvature, the smaller the radius, the greater the error. The error is negligible on huge radii. Don't buy plastic guns. Metal >> plastic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By zephyr: It's a $30 caliper. You may find this surprising. I took a set of cheap Hornady calipers to a USAF PMEL once as a joke and had them checked on their ceramic block things. I was there with an inspection team doing a compliance inspection. The $35 Hornady calipers passed all requirements and the kids even put a PMEL sticker on the box as a joke. My point is, OP's calipers are likely fine. The issue you have with calipers or any hand measurement tool is operator error. Not surprised at all. Pro machinists sneer at dial calipers but, if one is not doing aerospace-level work and .001 is "good enough", they are fine. Operator technique is a factor in using any precision measuring device. A gentle touch on the caliper thumbwheel or the micrometer thimble (It's not ##### c-clamp!) will produce accurate, repeatable results. Modern dial calipers are awesome compared to old-school vernier units that were like a slide rule. I took many measurements and some were .432" .4325" etc.. I know my hand is not steady but I used a fair amount of pressure to push the caliper to make as much contact on the chamber as possible. As I squeezed, the numbers shrank. It's all I have/had to be able to give data for this thread. I couldn't start the thread with, "Hey fellow firearms enthusiasts, I just fired my new Glock 10mm. I noticed when reloading my ammo, the cartridge rattled in the chamber and my groups were 8" or more. What could be wrong with the gun?" Pro's don't sneer at dial calipers. Digital is preferred in some shops for speed and reduced errors when reading the measurement. Vernier calipers are painful, despite everyone's skill reading a micrometer, it ain't the same. The issue with attempting precision inside measurements with a caliper are the flats ground into the jaws. Close, but not precision. The error depends on the part radius of curvature, the smaller the radius, the greater the error. The error is negligible on huge radii. Don't buy plastic guns. Metal >> plastic. I only used a vernier once. Or maybe learned to use it and said, "eff this" and grabbed a dial unit. I've seen digital calipers used in production environments that are connected to the Q.C. software for statistical process control. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:56:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: I only used a vernier once. Or maybe learned to use it and said, "eff this" and grabbed a dial unit. I've seen digital calipers used in production environments that are connected to the Q.C. software for statistical process control. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By zephyr: It's a $30 caliper. You may find this surprising. I took a set of cheap Hornady calipers to a USAF PMEL once as a joke and had them checked on their ceramic block things. I was there with an inspection team doing a compliance inspection. The $35 Hornady calipers passed all requirements and the kids even put a PMEL sticker on the box as a joke. My point is, OP's calipers are likely fine. The issue you have with calipers or any hand measurement tool is operator error. Not surprised at all. Pro machinists sneer at dial calipers but, if one is not doing aerospace-level work and .001 is "good enough", they are fine. Operator technique is a factor in using any precision measuring device. A gentle touch on the caliper thumbwheel or the micrometer thimble (It's not ##### c-clamp!) will produce accurate, repeatable results. Modern dial calipers are awesome compared to old-school vernier units that were like a slide rule. I took many measurements and some were .432" .4325" etc.. I know my hand is not steady but I used a fair amount of pressure to push the caliper to make as much contact on the chamber as possible. As I squeezed, the numbers shrank. It's all I have/had to be able to give data for this thread. I couldn't start the thread with, "Hey fellow firearms enthusiasts, I just fired my new Glock 10mm. I noticed when reloading my ammo, the cartridge rattled in the chamber and my groups were 8" or more. What could be wrong with the gun?" Pro's don't sneer at dial calipers. Digital is preferred in some shops for speed and reduced errors when reading the measurement. Vernier calipers are painful, despite everyone's skill reading a micrometer, it ain't the same. The issue with attempting precision inside measurements with a caliper are the flats ground into the jaws. Close, but not precision. The error depends on the part radius of curvature, the smaller the radius, the greater the error. The error is negligible on huge radii. Don't buy plastic guns. Metal >> plastic. I only used a vernier once. Or maybe learned to use it and said, "eff this" and grabbed a dial unit. I've seen digital calipers used in production environments that are connected to the Q.C. software for statistical process control. Meh. Not much worse than using the vernier scale on your mics.  Attached FileBut, I need my visor to read most anything now. 
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Posted: 3/19/2024 7:29:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: OP, Where in California are you? I’ll be in OC a couple weeks in April. I’ll shoot your gun and even provide the ammo to show you where the problem is. I’m 2-3 hrs from OC. Thanks for the offer. I should have a final conclusion by then. I’m planning on shooting this Sunday with a couple boxes of factory ammo, 180gr and 200gr jacketed. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 7:30:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jason280: There's a lot to unpack in this response. I responded in the reloading forum thread, and just made it through all 7 pages of this version. It seems like each time someone tries to help you along, you come up with yet another reason why it absolutely has to be the gun. I don't doubt it is likely the gun, but before throwing money at it, eliminate all the cheap variables. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jason280: Not with this gun. My rounds were landing feet left, right, high and low Friend also shot it, he too had bad impacts far away from the target. There's a lot to unpack in this response. I responded in the reloading forum thread, and just made it through all 7 pages of this version. It seems like each time someone tries to help you along, you come up with yet another reason why it absolutely has to be the gun. I don't doubt it is likely the gun, but before throwing money at it, eliminate all the cheap variables. Agreed. I’ve already said it could be my reloads. Will shoot factory ammo this weekend. Supported. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 7:35:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jason280: There's a lot to unpack in this response. I responded in the reloading forum thread, and just made it through all 7 pages of this version. It seems like each time someone tries to help you along, you come up with yet another reason why it absolutely has to be the gun. I don't doubt it is likely the gun, but before throwing money at it, eliminate all the cheap variables. Also, my friend was shooting my reloads. I know I know, never shoot someone’s reloads etc.. The ammo he shot was already tested to be safe pressure from my testing the day before. I didn’t have any factory ammo last weekend. But I will this weekend.
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Posted: 3/19/2024 7:44:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kingdead]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By diesel1: IMO, complete BS. Dial calipers are probably the most popular precision measuring tool on the planet. Why? Because they work just fine for 87% of the applications that one might encounter. Hornady and other sell cheap calipers because they are quite adequate for the job at hand. Does one really need to measure case diameter or overall length down to a "tenth"? No. The little bit of machining that I do is mostly tooling like bushing drivers for rebuilding transmissions and hydraulic rams. +/- .001 is within the capability of a dial caliper and, again, quite adequate for the job at hand. I use standard micrometers for cylinder bores, shafts, crankshaft journals, etc. How deep are the jaws of his caliper? What angle is he attacking the bore from? Is he off by a degree or a half degree? How does he know he is on the centerline of the bore and not off by a few thousandths?  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 7:52:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rabidus]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kingdead: I'm sure OP's calipers are precise enough to make measurements down to 0.001" or 0.0005", but is he accurate enough? You don't measure small holes like this with calipers, you use inside micrometers, bore gauges, pin gauges, etc... ETA: most people I've seen hold the part they are measuring in their hand and not laying across other parts at an angle, maybe this was for photo taking. How deep are the jaws of his caliper? What angle is he attacking the bore from? Is he off by a degree or a half degree? How does he know he is on the centerline of the bore and not off by a few thousandths? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/346870/glock_barrel_cutaway_jpg-3163915.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kingdead: Originally Posted By diesel1: IMO, complete BS. Dial calipers are probably the most popular precision measuring tool on the planet. Why? Because they work just fine for 87% of the applications that one might encounter. Hornady and other sell cheap calipers because they are quite adequate for the job at hand. Does one really need to measure case diameter or overall length down to a "tenth"? No. The little bit of machining that I do is mostly tooling like bushing drivers for rebuilding transmissions and hydraulic rams. +/- .001 is within the capability of a dial caliper and, again, quite adequate for the job at hand. I use standard micrometers for cylinder bores, shafts, crankshaft journals, etc. How deep are the jaws of his caliper? What angle is he attacking the bore from? Is he off by a degree or a half degree? How does he know he is on the centerline of the bore and not off by a few thousandths? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/346870/glock_barrel_cutaway_jpg-3163915.JPG I did the green measurement and got the largest number. But it was hard to hold it firmly, hold my phone and hold it steady. I did get some readings .431. Also rotated the calipers in the barrel and took reading. The 12 oclock - 6 oclock was the largest opening and measurement. It I would also do a 9oclock- 3 oclock, 11-5 oc etc. |
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Posted: 3/19/2024 10:05:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Also, my friend was shooting my reloads. I know I know, never shoot someone’s reloads etc.. The ammo he shot was already tested to be safe pressure from my testing the day before. I didn’t have any factory ammo last weekend. But I will this weekend. 
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Posted: 3/21/2024 9:29:19 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 3/21/2024 9:36:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By rabidus: I’m a glutton for punishment from gun manufactures. This is the 3rd pistol in 3 years (twice from Colt, now this Glock) that will have to go back to the manufacture, bought new. Groupings were 8” @ 12 yards using 135gr Nosler and 200gr Montana Bullet Works. Moved COL out, in, tried the full powder charge as recommended by Hodgdon. All were absolute crap groups. Also tried different charges using different COLs. SAAMI: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0042_jpeg-3162198.JPG Glock Perfection.  https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0043_jpeg-3162199.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0039_jpeg-3162200.JPG Wanna know how you are telling me you don’t know squat about measuring things and how guns are made? First off, you can’t use calipers to measure that. Do you have gage pins? Telescoping gages? Second off, chambers are supposed to be loose like that. If they were tight you wouldn’t get any shell extraction. Yes, match chambers are tighter-but match guns are for larping and combat guns are for running whatever ammo you come across that might even have a little dirt on it. Ever wonder why you only ever see 1911 guys practicing failure drills at a range? Yeah. |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:11:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave: Wanna know how you are telling me you don’t know squat about measuring things and how guns are made? First off, you can’t use calipers to measure that. Do you have gage pins? Telescoping gages? Second off, chambers are supposed to be loose like that. If they were tight you wouldn’t get any shell extraction. Yes, match chambers are tighter-but match guns are for larping and combat guns are for running whatever ammo you come across that might even have a little dirt on it. Ever wonder why you only ever see 1911 guys practicing failure drills at a range? Yeah. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave: Originally Posted By rabidus: I’m a glutton for punishment from gun manufactures. This is the 3rd pistol in 3 years (twice from Colt, now this Glock) that will have to go back to the manufacture, bought new. Groupings were 8” @ 12 yards using 135gr Nosler and 200gr Montana Bullet Works. Moved COL out, in, tried the full powder charge as recommended by Hodgdon. All were absolute crap groups. Also tried different charges using different COLs. SAAMI: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0042_jpeg-3162198.JPG Glock Perfection. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0043_jpeg-3162199.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0039_jpeg-3162200.JPG Wanna know how you are telling me you don’t know squat about measuring things and how guns are made? First off, you can’t use calipers to measure that. Do you have gage pins? Telescoping gages? Second off, chambers are supposed to be loose like that. If they were tight you wouldn’t get any shell extraction. Yes, match chambers are tighter-but match guns are for larping and combat guns are for running whatever ammo you come across that might even have a little dirt on it. Ever wonder why you only ever see 1911 guys practicing failure drills at a range? Yeah. Thanks! You’re the first person to mention that in almost 8 full pages! |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:55:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ridgerunner9876]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave: Wanna know how you are telling me you don’t know squat about measuring things and how guns are made? First off, you can’t use calipers to measure that. Do you have gage pins? Telescoping gages? Second off, chambers are supposed to be loose like that. If they were tight you wouldn’t get any shell extraction. Yes, match chambers are tighter-but match guns are for larping and combat guns are for running whatever ammo you come across that might even have a little dirt on it. Ever wonder why you only ever see 1911 guys practicing failure drills at a range? Yeah. Do you have a telescoping gauge under .4"? |
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:32:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Do you have a telescoping gauge under .4"? Yes, I do. Down to 3/8”. Tool and die maker with 33 years in. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 10:01:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Thanks! You’re the first person to mention that in almost 8 full pages! No. He’s not. You just fail at reading. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 10:03:33 PM EDT
[#22]
How does the op manage to buy every new defective gun made ?
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Posted: 3/22/2024 10:04:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NachoDip: No. He’s not. You just fail at reading. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NachoDip: Originally Posted By rabidus: Thanks! You’re the first person to mention that in almost 8 full pages! No. He’s not. You just fail at reading. Wow…. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 10:04:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskerz: How does the op manage to buy every new defective gun made ? Bad luck with guns…..best luck evah with my wife. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 10:15:38 PM EDT
[#25]
My KKM barrel came in today, 2 weeks early.
Checked the chamber and it’s a hair tighter than my Glock barrel. It’s raining this weekend, will have to wait until Monday-Tuesday to shoot/test. Maybe it was my reloads all along…. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 7:31:44 PM EDT
[#26]
It’s been a great weekend!
1. Got a new truck on Friday. 2. My new KKM barrel arrived Friday, 2 weeks early. 3. My reloads shot better out of the KKM than factory Glock Barrel (  to those who mocked me pages ago on my reloads/skills)4. Factory ammo was on par with the Glock barrel and KKM. 5. I reloaded the same Nosler 135gr and MBW 200gr (as I did when I created this thread and got 8” groups) and shot out of my KKM barrel *see #3 6. Glock barrel chamber is poo. My measurements may be suspect (due to not owning a $1000 tool) but the loaded cartridges and their wobble in the chambers between both barrels were correct and matched the groupings. I just played with powder charge today. I will adjust COL and .+/-.1 gr to see if I can tighten groups. KKM barrel and PMC bronze 200gr factory ammo  Attached FileSame ammo as above but with Glock barrel  Attached FileMontana Bullet Works and KKM barrel (7.5gr Longshot)  Attached FileNosler 135gr ASP 1.26” COL 10gr CFE pistol.  Attached FileThank you to those who were helpful and considerate and gave me benefit of the doubt. Might send in the Glock barrel and see what they say. If they send it back, no big deal, will use the KKM barrel. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 7:39:59 PM EDT
[#27]
OP, if I was Glock, I’d give you your money back and send you to my competition.
Some people aren’t worth dealing with. Have a great day 👍 |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 7:40:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doty_soty: And then everyone started a slow clap. Nope, I bet they all carried OP out on their shoulders like in Rudy or some shit
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Posted: 3/24/2024 7:50:06 PM EDT
[#29]
It's a combat handgun...
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Posted: 3/24/2024 7:54:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bronsonburner: It's a combat handgun... Very true. Both my g19s shoot great with reloads/factory Winchester 115gr training. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 7:56:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bronsonburner]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Very true. Both my g19s shoot great with reloads/factory Winchester 115gr training. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By Bronsonburner: It's a combat handgun... Very true. Both my g19s shoot great with reloads/factory Winchester 115gr training. The Glock barrel looks to be shooting around 3" groups. That's not 8". And not a whole lot worse than the whatever aftermarket barrel you decided it needed. Sorry, I must be missing something. ETA: In any event it's a non-issue IMO. All groups are minute-of-bad-guy chest. It's not a target pistol. Different strokes I suppose but I gave up "load development" for accuracy in most of my handguns long ago. I devote most of my "accuracy" efforts into precision rifle rounds. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 8:03:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Both barrels seem to shoot better with factory ammo.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 8:03:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bronsonburner: The Glock barrel looks to be shooting around 3" groups. That's not 8". And not a whole lot worse than the whatever aftermarket barrel you decided it needed. Sorry, I must be missing something. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bronsonburner: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By Bronsonburner: It's a combat handgun... Very true. Both my g19s shoot great with reloads/factory Winchester 115gr training. The Glock barrel looks to be shooting around 3" groups. That's not 8". And not a whole lot worse than the whatever aftermarket barrel you decided it needed. Sorry, I must be missing something. My creating of this thread, I got a new g29sf. Got 8” groups at 12 yards using the Glock barrel. Using: 1. Nosler 135gr reloads. 2. Montana bullet works 200gr WNFP reloads I didn’t have any factory ammo. Usually my reloads get me ballpark and not 8” groups. Horrible horrible groups. I then measured the Glock chamber with my reloading caliper. Got mocked. “YOU CANT ACCURATELY MEASURE YOUR CHAMBER WITH A $30 CALIPER!” You can’t reload! You can’t shoot! Blah blah blah…. Im moving on after this thread but was validated that my Glock barrel was/is bad and it’s not my shooting/reloading. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 8:10:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: My creating of this thread, I got a new g29sf. Got 8” groups at 12 yards using the Glock barrel. Using: 1. Nosler 135gr reloads. 2. Montana bullet works 200gr WNFP reloads I didn’t have any factory ammo. Usually my reloads get me ballpark and not 8” groups. Horrible horrible groups. I then measured the Glock chamber with my reloading caliper. Got mocked. “YOU CANT ACCURATELY MEASURE YOUR CHAMBER WITH A $30 CALIPER!” You can’t reload! You can’t shoot! Blah blah blah…. Im moving on after this thread but was validated that my Glock barrel was/is bad and it’s not my shooting/reloading. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By Bronsonburner: Originally Posted By rabidus: Originally Posted By Bronsonburner: It's a combat handgun... Very true. Both my g19s shoot great with reloads/factory Winchester 115gr training. The Glock barrel looks to be shooting around 3" groups. That's not 8". And not a whole lot worse than the whatever aftermarket barrel you decided it needed. Sorry, I must be missing something. My creating of this thread, I got a new g29sf. Got 8” groups at 12 yards using the Glock barrel. Using: 1. Nosler 135gr reloads. 2. Montana bullet works 200gr WNFP reloads I didn’t have any factory ammo. Usually my reloads get me ballpark and not 8” groups. Horrible horrible groups. I then measured the Glock chamber with my reloading caliper. Got mocked. “YOU CANT ACCURATELY MEASURE YOUR CHAMBER WITH A $30 CALIPER!” You can’t reload! You can’t shoot! Blah blah blah…. Im moving on after this thread but was validated that my Glock barrel was/is bad and it’s not my shooting/reloading. YOU put this in GD bro, so you can deal with whatever people say. I say the Glock barrel isn't bad. If my eyes aren't lying to me by the groups you show above I'd say it's pretty average. Anyway, glad you're happy and congrats on the new ride! |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:14:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: My creating of this thread, I got a new g29sf. Got 8” groups at 12 yards using the Glock barrel. Using: 1. Nosler 135gr reloads. 2. Montana bullet works 200gr WNFP reloads I didn’t have any factory ammo. Usually my reloads get me ballpark and not 8” groups. Horrible horrible groups. I then measured the Glock chamber with my reloading caliper. Got mocked. “YOU CANT ACCURATELY MEASURE YOUR CHAMBER WITH A $30 CALIPER!” You can’t reload! You can’t shoot! Blah blah blah…. Im moving on after this thread but was validated that my Glock barrel was/is bad and it’s not my shooting/reloading. So you proved the factory barrel can shoot acceptably accurate for a Glock with 3" groups and that your reload was at fault (likely poor bullet choice for the gun) and are taking a victory lap? Bold move. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 5:55:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: Im moving on after this thread but was validated that my Glock barrel was/is bad and it’s not my shooting/reloading. Uh, hate to break the news to you, but, no, you didn't get validated... You shot 3" groups with low budget factory ammo... That is more than acceptable by anyone's standard for a combat handgun. A glock is not a $2500 Les Baer hand fitted match pistol. I would bet you could buy 4 or 5 different brands of carry ammo and find some that would group under 2". But shooting cast lead reloads? uhm, yea... No one except you thinks a glock should fire 1" groups from a factory barrel with lead reloads, or else "its junk" or the "barrel is bad". Please make sure to explain in your return letter to glock why you are sending it back is "because of poor groups with cast lead reloads..." And please, come back and let us know what they say!!! |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 6:01:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By whiskerz: How does the op manage to buy every new defective gun made ? I want to hear more about how he went to an Army training center and his shooting skills were so impressive that Majors and Colonels dropped what they were doing and watched in amazement. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 6:09:57 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JeepersCreepers: I want to hear more about how he went to an Army training center and his shooting skills were so impressive that Majors and Colonels dropped what they were doing and watched in amazement. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JeepersCreepers: Originally Posted By whiskerz: How does the op manage to buy every new defective gun made ? I want to hear more about how he went to an Army training center and his shooting skills were so impressive that Majors and Colonels dropped what they were doing and watched in amazement. I believe him. Happened to me when visiting the FBI academy, the even made a documentary about it. 
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NY, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 6:12:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JeepersCreepers: I want to hear more about how he went to an Army training center and his shooting skills were so impressive that Majors and Colonels dropped what they were doing and watched in amazement. Dont forget the nod and the "Damn"... those are the best parts! |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 6:14:37 PM EDT
[#40]
KKM does have tighter chambers than the factory Glock barrels and they are that way on purpose. Glock chambers their barrels with reliability not specifically accuracy in mind. At least not 1911 accuracy.
Perhaps you'd be better off with 1911's to play with. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 6:16:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Coffin-Nail: Calipers aren't really that precise, you need a mic for real accuracy. A mic and a chamber casting. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 6:35:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FMJ0311]
[#42]
“The folks at Glock tell me that shooting lead bullets in their barrels, regardless of generation, has the potential to build up lead residue in the barrel to the point of increasing pressures to dangerous levels, which is one of the reasons the manufacturer does not recommend non-jacketed bullets for use in any of its pistols. The reasons polygonal barrels and lead bullets don’t work well together stem from the sizing and hardness of the bullets, as well as the manner in which polygonal barrels impart spin on the bullet to ensure stability and accuracy. For lead bullets to work satisfactorily in a polygonal barrel, they have to be on the higher end of the hardness scale and loaded to moderate pressures. There is a fairly fine line between success and failure in this arena. Unlike conventionally rifled barrels with lands and grooves that engrave their twist pattern into the bullet, polygonal rifling is relatively smooth and imparts its spin to the bullet by swaging its twist pattern onto the projectile. This leaves less of a mark than conventional rifling and minimizes deformation to the exterior of the bullet. All but the hardest and properly sized lead bullets tend to skid on polygonal rifling, leaving unwanted deposits that build up over a relatively small number of shots. This degrades accuracy and increases pressures, making frequent inspection and cleaning a necessity.” https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/should-you-shoot-lead-bullets-in-glock-barrels/ @rabidus |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 10:52:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rabidus: It's been a great weekend! 1. Got a new truck on Friday. 2. My new KKM barrel arrived Friday, 2 weeks early. 3. My reloads shot better out of the KKM than factory Glock Barrel ( to those who mocked me pages ago on my reloads/skills)4. Factory ammo was on par with the Glock barrel and KKM. 5. I reloaded the same Nosler 135gr and MBW 200gr (as I did when I created this thread and got 8" groups) and shot out of my KKM barrel *see #3 6. Glock barrel chamber is poo. My measurements may be suspect (due to not owning a $1000 tool) but the loaded cartridges and their wobble in the chambers between both barrels were correct and matched the groupings. I just played with powder charge today. I will adjust COL and .+/-.1 gr to see if I can tighten groups. KKM barrel and PMC bronze 200gr factory ammo https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0092_jpeg-3168412.JPG Same ammo as above but with Glock barrel https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0091_jpeg-3168403.JPG Montana Bullet Works and KKM barrel (7.5gr Longshot) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0087_jpeg-3168405.JPG Nosler 135gr ASP 1.26" COL 10gr CFE pistol. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/170028/IMG_0089_jpeg-3168407.JPG Thank you to those who were helpful and considerate and gave me benefit of the doubt. Might send in the Glock barrel and see what they say. If they send it back, no big deal, will use the KKM barrel. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 12:03:03 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hueto: Just wanted to say that you can't accurately measure ID of something with a caliper. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hueto: Just wanted to say that you can't accurately measure ID of something with a caliper. Funny, for shits and giggles I just measured a small bore with a pair of $20 digital calipers and get the same exact measurement when using a pin gauge. I'm pretty tired of the platitude that "calipers are not accurate". Any time I've ever compared them to a mic or pin gauges, they've always been within .001" or better. Yes, technique is involved to get reliable measurements, but that's true of pretty much anything. Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By zephyr: It's a $30 caliper. You may find this surprising. I took a set of cheap Hornady calipers to a USAF PMEL once as a joke and had them checked on their ceramic block things. I was there with an inspection team doing a compliance inspection. The $35 Hornady calipers passed all requirements and the kids even put a PMEL sticker on the box as a joke. My point is, OP’s calipers are likely fine. The issue you have with calipers or any hand measurement tool is operator error. Not surprising at all. Digital calipers have been around forever, it's extremely refined technology at this point. |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 12:26:15 AM EDT
[#45]
I just can't wait until OP does what several of us asked him to do from the get-go: get someone else who isn't on his payroll to shoot his pistol with the stock barrel and factory ammo and NOT intentionally shoot shitty.
Just kidding. He's never going to do that. The power of the ego is an impressive thing. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 12:48:37 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 3/29/2024 12:56:03 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/1000000621_jpg-3172471.JPG How much for the barrel that shoots the same as the factory barrel? I LOL’d Un-fuckin real. They shoot the same groups 
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:11:58 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FMJ0311: “The folks at Glock tell me that shooting lead bullets in their barrels, regardless of generation, has the potential to build up lead residue in the barrel to the point of increasing pressures to dangerous levels, which is one of the reasons the manufacturer does not recommend non-jacketed bullets for use in any of its pistols. The reasons polygonal barrels and lead bullets don’t work well together stem from the sizing and hardness of the bullets, as well as the manner in which polygonal barrels impart spin on the bullet to ensure stability and accuracy. For lead bullets to work satisfactorily in a polygonal barrel, they have to be on the higher end of the hardness scale and loaded to moderate pressures. There is a fairly fine line between success and failure in this arena. Unlike conventionally rifled barrels with lands and grooves that engrave their twist pattern into the bullet, polygonal rifling is relatively smooth and imparts its spin to the bullet by swaging its twist pattern onto the projectile. This leaves less of a mark than conventional rifling and minimizes deformation to the exterior of the bullet. All but the hardest and properly sized lead bullets tend to skid on polygonal rifling, leaving unwanted deposits that build up over a relatively small number of shots. This degrades accuracy and increases pressures, making frequent inspection and cleaning a necessity.” https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/should-you-shoot-lead-bullets-in-glock-barrels/ @rabidus Yet people have been using lead bullets successfully for years. I'd probably buy a nice barrel because it's a drop in the bucket long term. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 3:46:09 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: I LOL’d Un-fuckin real. They shoot the same groups Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By 03RN: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/1000000621_jpg-3172471.JPG How much for the barrel that shoots the same as the factory barrel? I LOL’d Un-fuckin real. They shoot the same groups Except OP can't even seem to shoot a consistent number of rounds. Maybe 4 shots, maybe 5...question you gotta ask yourself, seeing as how this is a 10mm Glock and the most powerful larping gat in the world*, is do I feel lucky? Well do ya, punk? *It's a small world The concept of a statistically significant sample size clearly eludes OP. Let alone interpreting data points to come to a conclusion... |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:35:31 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jalcon9: My G20 Gen4 the chambered round def moves in the barrel. I can hear it. I've confirmed this in a few ways and it bothered the shit out of me for months. Luckily I have two friends with Glock 20s and I literally tried every combination of my extractor, springs, my barrel, their slide you name it. I even tried a KKM barrel. Still did it. I eventually narrowed it down to my slide . Literally if I tap the right side of the side it'll be quiet. Tap the left side and shake it, bullet rattles. I can even do this with a chambered slide while the slide is not even on the frame, but everything else in place barrel, recoil spring etc. stick a pencil eraser side in the barrel, and it'll stay quiet. I duplicated this in their slides too but not as much as mine does. It is definitely something to do with the way the extractor is grabbing the rim of the cartridge. I've tried 4 extractors, they all do it different extractor plungers you name it, I've tried it. Something to do with my particular slide, maybe the cutout slot for the extractor idk. I ended up sending it to Glock, they didn't say much really. Shoots fine. Seems accurate enough although I'm not a great shooter. I stopped caring about it. https://i.postimg.cc/V65Ps1xk/IMG-3344.jpg |
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