User Panel
Posted: 3/28/2024 4:14:22 PM EDT
This person is obviously intoxicated. If she refuses the field sobriety tests, she's sill getting arrested.
What's the point of the dog & pony show? Seems like a waste of department resources. When You’re Too Drunk to Realize You’re Driving Without a Front Tire |
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Tom Sawyer.
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Tattoo'd and Voted #1 in blind taste tests.
TX, USA
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Legality reasons for court is my guess.
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(_@___]]~~ It is better to smoke here, than here after. Grab a cigar.
http://www.marinebattleherk.com |
Defense attorneys.
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Sorry, I'm not buying that. If that's the case, it implies you can beat a DUI simply by refusing the field tests.
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Tom Sawyer.
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Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: This person is obviously intoxicated. If she refuses the field sobriety tests, she's sill getting arrested. What's the point of the dog & pony show? Seems like a waste of department resources. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sdBg7V0Wio View Quote Because of the court system. The more tests/proof the cops can show failed the more likely the charge will stick. |
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They want you to create more evidence to help them against you in court.
Thats why you run. |
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Join VCDL.org
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humiliation ritual
not that I have a problem with it really |
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Tattoo'd and Voted #1 in blind taste tests.
TX, USA
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(_@___]]~~ It is better to smoke here, than here after. Grab a cigar.
http://www.marinebattleherk.com |
Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast: Try it. I think you're attempting to make a statement rather than ask a legit question. View Quote |
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Tom Sawyer.
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In this state the roadside breathalyzer can't be used in court, but what you blow at the station is. And yes, if you refuse then the SOS suspends your license for a bit.
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For your pleasure or your pain, society is a game.
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She should've tried the ol throw the keys in the backseat and chug a flask of liquor trick.
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Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: Sorry, I'm not buying that. If that's the case, it implies you can beat a DUI simply by refusing the field tests. View Quote It doesn't guarantee that you'll beat the charge, but I was the alternate on a jury (heard all evidence, not the deliberations) where the defendant, with 3x previous DUIs, beat the charge because he refused and the cop did a poor job of documenting everything. There is a reason that every attorney I've heard speak on the subject, advises their client to refuse to blow even if it means automatic license revocation if they have even the slightest doubt about how much alcohol they consumed. |
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Originally Posted By DarkGray: It doesn't guarantee that you'll beat the charge, but I was the alternate on a jury (heard all evidence, not the deliberations) where the defendant, with 3x previous DUIs, beat the charge because he refused and the cop did a poor job of documenting everything. There is a reason that every attorney I've heard speak on the subject, advises their client to refuse to blow even if it means automatic license revocation if they have even the slightest doubt about how much alcohol they consumed. View Quote |
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Documentation
Standardized testing to ensure an unbias evaluation |
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Originally Posted By ricko1: A person has to be dumber than a rock to agree to any roadside test including the breathalyzer when they know they are drunk. I would love to hear how doing any of that has ever benefited a drunk driver. View Quote I bet there's a fair number who under estimate what their bac is. Not the pros of course. |
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Procedure
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“I was always willing to be reasonable until I had to be unreasonable. Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things.”
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Originally Posted By ricko1: A person has to be dumber than a rock to agree to any roadside test including the breathalyzer when they know they are drunk. View Quote Some states refusing FST when suspected of DUI is automatic suspension of license for 1 year. You still get arrested and they can request a warrant for a blood draw. If you’re drunk, being uncooperative isn’t gonna get you off the hook. |
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Not sure if it's the same everywhere but here if you blew over a certain number it was worse. I think it was .15 . If you blew under, there was a better chance they would plead it down on your first offense. That was a while ago though.
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Originally Posted By Soybomb: I bet there's a fair number who under estimate what their bac is. Not the pros of course. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Soybomb: Originally Posted By ricko1: A person has to be dumber than a rock to agree to any roadside test including the breathalyzer when they know they are drunk. I would love to hear how doing any of that has ever benefited a drunk driver. I bet there's a fair number who under estimate what their bac is. Not the pros of course. The pros can be the worst. I knew a guy that “felt fine” and blew 5x the limit. |
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“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”.
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Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: This person is obviously intoxicated. If she refuses the field sobriety tests, she's sill getting arrested. What's the point of the dog & pony show? Seems like a waste of department resources. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sdBg7V0Wio View Quote Waste of Department resources? You have no idea- this is the result of decades of defense attorneys and judges who can't read |
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The chick in OP's video. Send her to me. I can fix her.
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It was only beer
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Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: This person is obviously intoxicated. If she refuses the field sobriety tests, she's sill getting arrested. What's the point of the dog & pony show? Seems like a waste of department resources. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sdBg7V0Wio View Quote |
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Arfcom Callsign: Meth
Never tell a bride, with dogshit on her dress, to "chillax" |
Originally Posted By Jericho53: Waste of Department resources? You have no idea- this is the result of decades of defense attorneys and judges who can't read View Quote Nobody's being convicted of DUI from just failing* a FST, are they? *I've heard it stated several times there is no pass/fail of a FST further leading to my confusion as to the actual point of this. |
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Tom Sawyer.
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Ocifer....take me drunk, I'm home!!
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Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: Sorry, I'm not buying that. If that's the case, it implies you can beat a DUI simply by refusing the field tests. View Quote Depends on some other stuff. But yeah that's the gist of it. Without SFST and/or blood or breath you basically just have actions before the stop and during the stop. Depending on what is said and done it may be hard for the jury to see anything and then it's based solely on the observations without anything scientifically backing it up. SFST isn't really a pass/fail no. It's an indicator based on other observations. An indicator backed up by science. |
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Originally Posted By JimEb: Some states refusing FST when suspected of DUI is automatic suspension of license for 1 year. You still get arrested and they can request a warrant for a blood draw. If you’re drunk, being uncooperative isn’t gonna get you off the hook. View Quote In Maryland if you know your over but not stumbling and falling the best thing you can do is refuse everything. Yes you loose your DL for a year but you can request and get a limited DL so you can still go to work with a blow and go. But you wont get a DUI on your record. |
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"I am gonna laugh my ass off looking out the air vent of the box car watching some of you shot in the head in a ditch when you finally realize it's time to resist." stolen from RR_broccoli
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Wisconsin, probably the most sober person besides the cops driving.
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It is an electromechanical test, so they can better make an arrest decision, with no concern over improperly administered SFSTs, bad instructions, officer bias, etc etc.
More data = better. Overall decision can be tough when someone looks borderline. You don’t want a low BAC arrest, also don’t want to allow a drunk to drive off and kill someone. So in those situations, something like this would be quite helpful. Basically- doing DUI cases all the time gets you good at doing it. PBT’s are somewhat useful for those cops. The ones not doing it very often- well it is probably even more helpful for them. |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so they say…
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Every now and then someone looks drunk, has slurred speech, and the odor of alcohol. Then when they are putting the cuffs on they see the diabetic bracelet and call rescue instead. If you got the beetus control your shit.
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Wisconsin 8.5 .
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Originally Posted By tortilla-flats: I guess that's what I'm not getting. These people (regardless if they do the FSTs or not) get arrested and then have to submit to a subsequent blood draw or breathalyzer. I would think that by itself, is all the conclusive proof the court would need for a conviction. Nobody's being convicted of DUI from just failing* a FST, are they? *I've heard it stated several times there is no pass/fail of a FST further leading to my confusion as to the actual point of this. View Quote Failing FST’s- plus driving and other observations. Clearly don’t need a breath test, because people refuse all the time (and get convicted typically of it goes to trial). Failing FST’s can also mean anything from a .08 level to holy shit falling down drunk. Or below .08 if they are a lightweight, have no tolerance, or have other stuff on board. Somewhat subjective tests that are attempted to be as objective as possible (hence the standardized name). Someone who shows 6 good clues on HGN, but technically passes the other tests or is marginal, likely is just a practiced drinker and I would usually arrest, but others might miss. The tests just help you make a decision, paint the whole picture, etc. Lots of cops are not very good at FST’s. They don’t do them often enough. More than a few times I had someone about to let someone go when I had to step in, because they were missing things, doing tests poorly, or I wasn’t quite convinced. Someone who is good at it, they can crank out an investigation, arrest, and paperwork pretty well. Kick ass in court. But it takes a while to learn, and you have to have a knack for it. Good DUI cops are really good at making those arrest decisions, because they have picked up the details others miss. You also realize when someone is just not right medically/mentally, and not actually DUII, when a less experienced person might assume they were impaired (or more impaired than mental). Plenty of times where someone thought they were seeing something (HGN) but it wasn’t. They just did not do it often enough, and when they found an oddball case were more likely to screw it up. Example- guy killed someone in a boating accident, dead guy was drunk, (it was really his fault), etc etc. Anyhow marine units were certain the boat driver was drunk, because everyone else on the boat was, and that would mean a homicide charge. I met them at the dock, guy seemed fine. I ran him thru SFST’s, told them he seemed sober. They were a bit hard to convince due to preexisting ideas, but knew I was good at it. Regardless, we talked the guy into doing a breath test to verify, which was 0.00%, as I expected. Point being, sometimes you need someone who is just more familiar with the process and has tested a lot of people, who can take a clear look at things. PBT’s can help be that kind of uninvolved expert opinion, to help you make that kind of a decision. (We didn’t have them, case law). |
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a loaded gun won’t set you free, so they say…
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The initial stop is made on reasonable suspicion of intoxication. The FST along with the officers personal observations of the driver establishes probable cause for the arrest and become evidence for the trial.
The reason for the initial stop may turn out to be a medical condition or other reason than intoxication. |
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Bad things happen in isolated instances in an armed populace, horrific things happen to a disarmed populace. 20th Century Democide https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
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Originally Posted By tac556: It is an electromechanical test, so they can better make an arrest decision, with no concern over improperly administered SFSTs, bad instructions, officer bias, etc etc. More data = better. Overall decision can be tough when someone looks borderline. You don't want a low BAC arrest, also don't want to allow a drunk to drive off and kill someone. So in those situations, something like this would be quite helpful. Basically- doing DUI cases all the time gets you good at doing it. PBT's are somewhat useful for those cops. The ones not doing it very often- well it is probably even more helpful for them. View Quote As far as bad instructions, bias...I'm shocked watching some of these where the Officer can't even perform the demonstration and gets called out on it. Which is one of the reasons I'm questioning the Officer's reasoning for doing this in the first place, when they know they are going to arrest them and force blood and/or breath. |
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Tom Sawyer.
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Thanks for all the feedback. Guess its just one of those things. "Reasons", aka .gov policy.
And Defense Attorneys. |
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Tom Sawyer.
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Originally Posted By 6SJ7GT: The initial stop is made on reasonable suspicion of intoxication. The FST along with the officers personal observations of the driver establishes probable cause for the arrest and become evidence for the trial. The reason for the initial stop may turn out to be a medical condition or other reason than intoxication. View Quote lol and there’s been plenty of videos where person is having medical emergency & is still arrested for dui and it becomes expensive defending those charges bc we all know that cops are always correct. |
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Before you deprive a person of their freedoms you have to be able to articulate that you have eliminated every possible doubt that the arrest is just.
I'm okay with the "roadside ballet." It's not really changing her outcome aside from making a conviction a little easier. |
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The “Three Stupid” Rule: “Do not go to stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things”
Religion is a handy device for keeping the philosophically deficient in line. |
Now, ask yourselves why EVERY cop you have EVER heard of being pulled over for DUI always, always, ALWAYS refuses the stupid people tricks
ALWAYS |
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Schoolhouse Rock was a lie
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