User Panel
Posted: 3/29/2024 10:47:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BullpupFan]
If Capitol Armory and Silencer Central can ship suppressors to my door from an in-state FFL, why not do the same for Title I stuff?
ETA: Answered by D_Man's post #10 below - NFA items have a special exemption... With Kolorado's new waiting period and being out of town a lot, this might actually be quicker for me than trying to make 2 trips to my transfer dealer... ETA for those living under rocks, Welcome to 2020-something https://www.silencercentral.com/services/direct-shipping/ https://www.capitolarmory.com/blog/direct-to-your-door-nationwide-shipping.html |
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This is the first I have ever heard of shipping a suppressor to the purchaser
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Originally Posted By _Matt_: This is the first I have ever heard of shipping a suppressor to the purchaser View Quote Welcome to 2020-something https://www.silencercentral.com/services/direct-shipping/ https://www.capitolarmory.com/blog/direct-to-your-door-nationwide-shipping.html |
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I suggest we trade a question mark in for a maybe.
IA, USA
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Originally Posted By Heartbreaker1373: Yeah no shit lol Other than for warranty repair, or c&r guns shipped to a c&r FFL holder, never heard of that View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Heartbreaker1373: Originally Posted By _Matt_: This is the first I have ever heard of shipping a suppressor to the purchaser Yeah no shit lol Other than for warranty repair, or c&r guns shipped to a c&r FFL holder, never heard of that IIRC the way it works is you buy through a dealer or manufacturer licensed in your state, they submit your form 4. Now it's "yours", so once the form 4 is approved it's no different than if you had shipped it for repair. The shipping process adds time to your acquisition, so the current 2-10 day form 4s take 2 or 3 times as long if you go with the shipping option. |
WARNING-this post contains words or thoughts that may at some point be discovered by the state of California to cause cancer.
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Because the federal law requires a background check be completed at the time of delivery. Form 4 = Background Check completed at the time of delivery.
IIRC, the CMP is empowered to accept and process Form 4473 prior to delivery via mail, but that may have changed. |
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Originally Posted By AllserviceBilliards: Because the federal law requires a background check be completed at the time of delivery. Form 4 = Background Check completed at the time of delivery. View Quote So submit my background check for the Title I gun... after that it's the same, right? 4473 completed, sent to CLEO, waiting period, item shipped to your door... |
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Originally Posted By Heartbreaker1373: Yeah no shit lol Other than for warranty repair, or c&r guns shipped to a c&r FFL holder, never heard of that View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Heartbreaker1373: Originally Posted By _Matt_: This is the first I have ever heard of shipping a suppressor to the purchaser Yeah no shit lol Other than for warranty repair, or c&r guns shipped to a c&r FFL holder, never heard of that The future is now, old men Welcome to my thread |
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I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet |
Originally Posted By AllserviceBilliards: Because the federal law requires a background check be completed at the time of delivery. Form 4 = Background Check completed at the time of delivery. IIRC, the CMP is empowered to accept and process Form 4473 prior to delivery via mail, but that may have changed. View Quote CMP did not process a 4473 on their transfers out to the end user. at least they didnt when it was just rifles, not sure if anything changed now that they have the 1911 sales. |
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I had it done through CMP years ago.
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Originally Posted By BullpupFan: So submit my background check for the Title I gun... after that it's the same, right? 4473 completed, sent to CLEO, waiting period, item shipped to your door... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By BullpupFan: So submit my background check for the Title I gun... after that it's the same, right? 4473 completed, sent to CLEO, waiting period, item shipped to your door... Title I guns are bound by the "Brady Law", requiring the FFL transferring the firearm to conduct the NICS check. There is an exception to the Brady Law for NFA firearms, because the ATF does the check, not the transferring FFL: 27 CFR 478.102 - Sales or deliveries of firearms on and after November 30, 1998. 478.102 Sales or deliveries of firearms on and after November 30, 1998. (a) Background check. Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer (the licensee) shall not sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this part unless the licensee meets the following requirements: ... (d) Exceptions to NICS check. The provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall not apply if ... (2) The firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR part 479; or There is a provision that allows for mail-order sales only for firearms that are exempt from 27 CFR 478.102(a) above. Silencers meet that exemption because the transfering dealer is not required to conduct the NICS check, it was already done by the ATF in the approval process. 27 CFR 478.96 - Out-of-State and mail order sales. 478.96 Out-of-State and mail order sales. (a) The provisions of this section shall apply when a firearm is purchased by or delivered to a person not otherwise prohibited by the Act from purchasing or receiving it. (b) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of 478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by 478.124. The nonlicensee shall attach to such record a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which he resides. The licensee shall prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the record, Form 4473, to the chief law enforcement officer named on such record, and delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for a period of at least 7 days following receipt by the licensee of the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the record to such chief law enforcement officer, or the return of the copy of the record to him due to the refusal of such chief law enforcement officer to accept same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations. The original Form 4473, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 sent to the chief law enforcement officer shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required of him to be kept under the provisions of subpart H of this part. So if you want to do as you propose OP, we would have to change the law and make all Title 1 firearms registered NFA firearms... |
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Originally Posted By D_Man: Title I guns are bound by the "Brady Law", requiring the FFL transferring the firearm to conduct the NICS check. There is an exception to the Brady Law for NFA firearms, because the ATF does the check, not the transferring FFL: There is a provision that allows for mail-order sales only for firearms that are exempt from 27 CFR 478.102(a) above. Silencers meet that exemption because the transfering dealer is not required to conduct the NICS check, it was already done by the ATF in the approval process. So if you want to do as you propose OP, we would have to change the law and make all Title 1 firearms registered NFA firearms... View Quote Gotcha, thanks! I didn't realize/remember that NFA items had a special callout in the law. Definitely NOT proposing we change anything, just asking why - which you answered, thanks! |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes The future was like a decade ago. Wait.........MORE than a decade ago. The below procedure is current. but it replaced a previous Procedure from 2013 that replaced a Form 4473 that was for such "non over the counter" transactions. So its likely been allowed for several decades. "Non over the counter" sales have been a thing for over a decade. Silencer Central and Capital Armory didn't invent it and back when Silencer Shop was a retailer, they were using it for Texas residents........... a decade ago. Current Recordkeeping procedure for non-over-the-counter firearm sales by licensees to unlicensed in-state residents that are NICS exempt. ATF Proc. 2020-1 Recordkeeping procedure for non-over-the-counter firearm sales by licensees to unlicensed in-state residents that are NICS exempt. 18 U.S.C. 922(c): NON-OVER-THE-COUNTER SALES OF FIREARMS 18 U.S.C. 922(t): NICS REQUIREMENTS AND EXCEPTIONS 27 CFR 478.96: MAIL ORDER SALES OF FIREARMS (IN-STATE, NICS EXEMPT) 27 CFR 478.102: 27 CFR 478.124:NICS REQUIREMENTS AND EXCEPTIONS FIREARMS TRANSACTION RECORD Purpose: This Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) procedure gives guidance to licensed importers, manufacturers, and dealers (licensees) on how to complete the Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473 (Form 4473), as revised effective May, 2020, and record the sale of a firearm, when selling to an unlicensed person who: a) Has a valid alternate permit or otherwise is exempt from National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) requirements; b) Resides in the same State as the licensee; and c) Does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises. Background: Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.), section 922(c)(1), states that, in any case not otherwise prohibited by 18 U.S.C. chapter 44, a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell a firearm to a person who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises (other than another licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer) only if the transferee submits to the transferor a sworn statement in the following form: Subject to penalties provided by law, I swear that, in the case of any firearm other than a shotgun or a rifle, I am twenty-one years or more of age, or that, in the case of a shotgun or a rifle, I am eighteen years or more of age; that I am not prohibited by the provisions of chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; and that my receipt of this firearm will not be in violation of any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which I reside. Further, the true title, name, and address of the principal law enforcement officer of the locality to which the firearm will be delivered are .____________________________________ Signature__________ Date_________ The statement must contain blank spaces to attach a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to such State statute or published ordinance. The corresponding regulation at title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), section 478.96(b), states, in relevant part, that a licensee may sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of § 478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, as required by § 478.124. The regulation further requires the nonlicensee to attach to the Form 4473 a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which he/she resides. Furthermore, 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1) and its implementing regulations at 27 CFR 478.102(a) require a licensee to contact NICS for a background check prior to completion of a firearm transfer to an unlicensed person, and verify the identity of that person by examining a valid identification document. The statute at 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3) and implementing regulation at 27 CFR 478.102(d) provide exceptions to these requirements if: (1) the transferee has presented a valid permit or license (“alternate permit”) that: (i) allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm; (ii) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and (iii) the law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law, and includes completion of a NICS background check; (2) the firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR Part 479; or (3) on application of the licensee, in accordance with 27 CFR 478.150, the ATF Director has certified that running a NICS background check is impracticable. ATF originally published Procedure 2013-2 as an alternate method of complying with 27 CFR 478.96 and 478.124(f) because the non-over-the-counter ATF Form 4473 (Part II) issued to implement those regulations was discontinued in 2013. That procedure authorized use of the over-the-counter ATF Form 4473 (Part I) for non-over-the-counter transactions provided that the additional information required by 18 U.S.C. 922(c) was submitted with that form and the other requirements in the procedure were followed. ATF is now updating that alternate procedure in light of recent changes to the over-the-counter ATF Form 4473 (May 2020), which requires completion of the form in an order different from that provided in 27 CFR 478.124(f). Because that minor procedural change is consistent with the purpose of, and effect intended by § 478.124(f), ATF authorizes licensees to use this alternate procedure when selling firearms to persons who do not appear at the licensed business premises in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 922(c).1 Procedure: A licensed importer, manufacturer, or dealer may record and conduct the sale of a firearm to a resident of the same State who does not appear in person at the licensed business premises using ATF Form 4473, provided the transfer is exempt from the NICS requirements, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(3) and 27 CFR 478.102(d), and the procedures below are followed: 1 ATF may approve alternate or emergency methods or procedures to existing regulations pursuant to 27 CFR 478.22 and 70.701(d)(2) [as in effect on January 23, 2003, and continued by 28 CFR 0.133(a)(2)]. 1. The transferor/seller must complete Section A before the transferee/buyer completes Section B of ATF Form 4473, and send the form to the transferee/buyer; 2. The transferee/buyer must properly complete and execute Section B of ATF Form 4473 as if the firearm was being transferred at the licensed premises; 3. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(1) and 27 CFR 478.96(b), the transferee/buyer must execute and attach to the Form 4473 a sworn statement in the format prescribed by 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(1) (set forth above), and, as applicable, a true copy signed and dated by the transferee/buyer of the valid alternate permit that qualifies as a NICS exception, and any other documentation required pursuant to State statute or published ordinance; 4. The transferee/buyer must return the original ATF Form 4473 and attachment(s) to the licensee. The licensee must then complete the remaining portions of the form as if the firearm was being transferred at the licensed premises; 5. The licensee must document the applicable NICS exception in Section C of the ATF Form 4473; 6. The licensee is permitted to omit recording identifying information (type of identification, number on identification, expiration date of identification) in Section C. However, if the transferee/buyer is a nonimmigrant alien, the licensee must record the type of documentation showing an exception to the nonimmigrant alien prohibition. This supporting documentation must be attached to the ATF Form 4473; 7. Section D is not completed. 8. The licensee must complete Section E. In addition, the licensee must record the words “18 U.S.C. 922(c) Transaction” at the top of the first page of the ATF Form 4473; 9. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(2), 27 CFR 478.96(b), and 27 CFR 478.124(f), the licensee must, prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the Form 4473, sworn statement, and valid alternate permit or other required information to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) named on such statement; 10. Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(c)(3), 27 CFR 478.96(b), and 27 CFR 478.124(f), the licensee must delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for at least seven days following receipt by the licensee of either the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 to the CLEO, or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to refusal of the CLEO to accept the same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations; 11. The licensee must retain the original Form 4473, including any attachments as required by 27 CFR 478.96(b), the sworn statement, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the information sent to the CLEO, as part of the records required to be kept by the licensee under the provisions of 27 CFR subpart H, including §§478.129 and 478.131; - 4 - 12. The licensee must record the firearms disposition in the licensee’s acquisition and disposition record in accordance with 27 CFR 478.122, 478.123, or 478.125 (as applicable); and 13. The licensee must report any multiple sales or other disposition of pistols or revolvers on ATF Form 3310.4 in accordance with 27 CFR 478.126a. In addition, the licensee must report any multiple sales or other disposition of certain rifles on ATF Form 3310.12 in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(5)(A), as applicable. Licensees are reminded of their responsibility to ensure the accuracy and completeness of all required records, and to maintain such records on their licensed premises available for inspection. Failure to abide by any of these procedures may result in a violation of 18 U.S.C. 922(b)(5), 922(c), 922(m), 923(g), and/or 924(a)(3)(B), and corresponding regulations. Inquiries: Inquiries concerning this procedure should refer to its number and be addressed to the Firearms Industry Programs Branch at (202) 648-7190 or [email protected]. This procedure supersedes ATF Procedure 2013-2. Date approved: September 3, 2020 Regina Lombardo Acting Director |
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Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
Originally Posted By DogtownTom: The future was like a decade ago. "Non over the counter" sales have been a thing for over a decade. Silencer Central and Capital Armory didn't invent it and back when Silencer Shop was a retailer, they were using it for Texas residents........... a decade ago. View Quote I got a can mailed directly to my door in GA via quiet riot firearms close to a decade ago. |
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silencer central blows. overpriced garbage. ship to your door is nice, but damn, their prices are retarded.
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I aint doin nothing,but doing nothing means a lot to me.
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