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Posted: 5/11/2024 12:56:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Ignorance. Probably people hear the first statement, which is true you should be prepared mentally and competence wise. And they extrapolate the second retarded notion out of ignorance. Some FoF training dispels that notion right quick. If you dont draw until you know you have to shoot you'll be behind the curve. If you shoot just because you drew and thought you had to, but the situation changed before you pulled the trigger, you could see prison. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ridgerunner9876: Originally Posted By BURN: Plus, other interpretations of things in the self-defense world. "If you pull/draw a gun you'd better be prepared to use it" Why do some people think that just because you draw a gun you had better pull the trigger or there was no real reason to draw the gun? Rather than just being able to pull the trigger if you need to. Forgetting that in some circumstances drawing the gun may be enough. For example. A person coming at you with a knife... you draw your handgun...they drop the knife and run away.... no need to shoot. And on a second note why do people think just holding a gun without a threatening action along with it is "Brandishing" brandish 1 of 2 verb bran·?dish 'bran-dish brandished; brandishing; brandishes Synonyms of brandish transitive verb 1 : to shake or wave (something, such as a weapon) menacingly brandished a knife at them 2 : to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner brandishing her intellect brandish 2 of 2 noun : an act or instance of waving something menacingly or exhibiting something ostentatiously or aggressively : an act or instance of brandishing Ignorance. Probably people hear the first statement, which is true you should be prepared mentally and competence wise. And they extrapolate the second retarded notion out of ignorance. Some FoF training dispels that notion right quick. If you dont draw until you know you have to shoot you'll be behind the curve. If you shoot just because you drew and thought you had to, but the situation changed before you pulled the trigger, you could see prison. Everyone that has the opportunity should do some competent FoF training. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 12:56:49 PM EDT
[#2]
If speaks to the mindset required to use lethal force in self defense. The terrible and implacable determination to do whatever you must do to live.
Without that mindset there is every chance a criminal will realize you are waving a magic talisman at him instead of pointing a deadly weapon. That is how you get it taken away from you. Just look at police body cam videos where (typically) female officers pull their gun and order a criminal to stop. Then end up getting chased around their patrol car while pleading "I don't want to shoot you". I have only pointed a gun at someone twice in my life. Both times I absolutely meant to kill that person if they didn't comply. Both times they did exactly that. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:00:39 PM EDT
[#3]
Don't use a gun "to scare" or "to bluff" somebody.
Never ever ever pull the gun with the mindset "Oh. I could NEVER really hurt somebody." If the situation is not bad enough for you to be 100% willing to shoot somebody in the very near, immediate future, situation does not require gun yet. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:00:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Means pepper your anus
Prepare for a life altering decision including - possible jail time - lose of your job - loss of money - lawsuits - retribution - etc You’re normally complicated life just got more complicated. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:02:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joker581: I love this site but I have reason to believe that some of the people here might not be the best and brightest that society has to offer. Can person with below normal IQ buy gun? |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:06:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Originally Posted By BURN: Plus, other interpretations of things in the self-defense world. "If you pull/draw a gun you'd better be prepared to use it" Why do some people think that just because you draw a gun you had better pull the trigger or there was no real reason to draw the gun? Rather than just being able to pull the trigger if you need to. Forgetting that in some circumstances drawing the gun may be enough. For example. A person coming at you with a knife... you draw your handgun...they drop the knife and run away.... no need to shoot. And on a second note why do people think just holding a gun without a threatening action along with it is "Brandishing" brandish 1 of 2 verb bran·?dish 'bran-dish brandished; brandishing; brandishes Synonyms of brandish transitive verb 1 : to shake or wave (something, such as a weapon) menacingly brandished a knife at them 2 : to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner brandishing her intellect brandish 2 of 2 noun : an act or instance of waving something menacingly or exhibiting something ostentatiously or aggressively : an act or instance of brandishing I've never interpreted it as you HAVE to use it, just that you're justified and prepared to use it. If someone is walking over in your direction with a purpose, pointing their finger at you and looking pissed, don't draw your gun. You can't use it yet. Now you have a gun in your hand and zero justification to use it. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:23:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Police TV shows are the worst "education" for the general public. Just about every episode shows detectives drawing pistols, then re-holstering for a 5 minute foot chase. Bad guy runs knowing he won't be shot. Bad guy tells officers to put down guns or he will kill his hostage. AND THEY COMPLY!!
Just think: these TV educated people will be on your jury. I think that most people who get shot make a mis-judgement as to the willingness of their would be victim to pull the trigger. Is there any such thing as mental preparation to use lethal force? Maybe some have it and some don't. Maybe video games? |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:23:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By BURN: For example. A person coming at you with a knife... you draw your handgun...they drop the knife and run away.... no need to shoot. I’ve been in that exact situation, but they locked up and didn’t run. I didn’t shoot. If either one of them would’ve sneezed, I’d have killed them both. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:31:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Before you decide to keep or carry a gun, you should be honest with yourself about whether you're really willing and able to take someone's life, because deadly force that you aren't willing to actually use in the moment of truth is going to do nothing but cause you severe legal trouble in the best case and get you killed by your own weapon in the worst.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:33:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rezneck: "be prepared to shoot" doesn't mean you have to shoot. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:45:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JET55: Means pepper your anus Prepare for a life altering decision including - possible jail time - lose of your job - loss of money - lawsuits - retribution - etc You’re normally complicated life just got more complicated. That is state or area dependent. There is a guy I worked with who shot someone in self defense and he did not go to jail, did not lose his job, didnt cost him a huge amount if money with the attorney, lawsuits were dismissed (In KY if ruled self defense they cannot sue you). There was no retribution. That is extremely rare to begin with concerning retribution. In some rural areas of this state,especially Eastern Kentucky, you basically have to outright murder someone to get a conviction. There have been people who have walked who shot and killed people who just threatened to kill them in that part of the state. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:48:26 PM EDT
[#12]
It means that the presenting a gun doesn’t magically induce compliance.
Dude might keep coming, then you have to blast him, or risk getting the gun taken away from you and getting shot yourself. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:49:40 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:52:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Displaying a firearm is a level of force and has ended a lot of situations peacefully. It’s also a level of force that has escalated a few situations to violence.
You should always be prepared to deescalate if the situation changes. You can put that gun away without shooting. However, there is a nugget of truth. If you display a firearm, but the person sees that as a provocation to escalate, you’d better be prepared to follow through or you might end up as a victim or dead. As a related side note, you’d be amazed at how many people display a firearm for defense and the gun is not loaded. Empty chamber, empty mag, and they do it by choice. “I’d never shoot anybody, I just wanted to scare them.” |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:52:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BURN: No disagrement But people on this site say that if you draw a gun and don't pull the trigger "the threat wasn't real enough" to draw the gun. I definitely don’t agree. Situations can be dynamic. If the sight of me drawing either causes the BG to stop or turn tail and run, I am not shooting. Of course that depends on a lot of things. Distance, is the other guy armed, what’s he armed with, what’s his size, have I used all my escape routes… etc etc etc. “If you draw you had better be prepared to use it” makes more sense to me. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:53:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JustinU235]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BURN: No disagrement But people on this site say that if you draw a gun and don't pull the trigger "the threat wasn't real enough" to draw the gun. People that say that have never faced a real life situation. (I drew my gun in self defense and defended myself in court for doing so, successfully. Perp obeyed commands hence, no shoot). |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 1:56:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BURN: but as you draw they drop the knife are you still going to shoot them. That is the core question. There won’t be time for me to accurately process their intent and prevent my firearm from going bang. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:16:51 PM EDT
[#18]
If I clear leather, bullets will rain
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:27:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mysticookiebear: If I clear leather, bullets will rain 
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:27:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Beleg: Never assume that pulling the gun will make the bad guy run away. If you’re only planning to threaten but unwilling to actually pull the trigger, then don’t draw. And never pull your pistol just because someone’s pissed you off. They better be a legitimate threat. Beleg has it right. I will add, Do Not Bluff. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:28:20 PM EDT
[#21]
It means you should be prepared mentally to dispatch someone
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AR, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:31:35 PM EDT
[#22]
I get what your saying but don't agree with your analogy that you used. Because if someone ran at me with a knife regardless of trying to put it down I would have already shot because as the saying gose,
I would rather be judged by twelve then carried by six. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:32:41 PM EDT
[#23]
If you cross that rubicon of the quick or the dead then strike first and be judged by 12 instead of carried by six.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:33:13 PM EDT
[#24]
It has to draw blood before it returns to the holster.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:35:38 PM EDT
[#25]
I get what your saying but don't agree with your analogy that you used. Because if someone ran at me with a knife regardless of trying to put it down I would have already shot because as the saying gose,
I would rather be judged by twelve then carried by six. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:44:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tsg68: Firearms are a tool of last resort. If the situation has degraded to that level, you better be ready for the ride. It takes a couple seconds to draw a pistol from concealment, 2 3/4 seconds for most LE  A person can travel 20' is less than 2 seconds |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:45:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BURN: No disagrement But people on this site say that if you draw a gun and don't pull the trigger "the threat wasn't real enough" to draw the gun. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BURN: Originally Posted By Beleg: Never assume that pulling the gun will make the bad guy run away. If you’re only planning to threaten but unwilling to actually pull the trigger, then don’t draw. And never pull your pistol just because someone’s pissed you off. They better be a legitimate threat. No disagrement But people on this site say that if you draw a gun and don't pull the trigger "the threat wasn't real enough" to draw the gun. Well those people are idiots and know nothing about use of force or case law. Probably got their NRA CCW instructor certificate after some very basic training too…repeating a bunch of nonsense that someone else who doesn’t know jack shit told them… Actually I can’t say that completely is the case, as I have seen an otherwise good instructor give complete shit advice on confrontations like that, because he was in corrections and had zero clue how it typically went down in real life situations. So he defaulted to stupid shit like “you can’t shoot someone for kicking in your door” and other complete nonsense. I have personally dissuaded hundreds of people from doing something stupid by having a gun out and ready, or pointed at them. Works really well! You could also make an argument that someone who gave no indication of having a firearm, and waited until the threat actually was approaching to suddenly draw and fire, actually might have been baiting the person, depending on the circumstances. Would not fly so much in a criminal trial, but perhaps in civil lawsuits. Better to say “I have a gun, leave me alone”. Displaying a gun, appropriately, and telling the threat to cease their threatening behavior really does work most of the time. (For LE, giving a verbal warning prior to using deadly force is actually required, when practical, per case law). The problem is that most people don’t know what is appropriate…. Training is not something that is valued enough. You need to know the law, not be instigating the situation, and know what to say to police when it is over. Anyhow- don’t get your self defense advice from someone who doesn’t know what they are doing is my advice. Real experience counts in my book, for good reason. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:50:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jambalaya: Some states have passed "defensive display" laws, and really the gun rights orgs need to be pushing this as well. This is to protect people from brandishing charges when they display a gun to deter an attacker. Yes, you need to be prepared to use it. But if showing it to a potential assailant changes their mind about attacking, that's way, way better than having to shoot someone, for everyone involved. It really is funny how different states classify it. In OR if you point a gun at someone, it is an A Misdemeanor, Menacing. In WA if you do it, can get charged with a major felony, Assault I. Quite the difference. Of course if you are justified and act appropriately , neither occurrence is criminal at all. (I always thought it was messed up in WA, same charge for pointing the gun as if you actually shot and injured someone? Weird. But that is how it gets charged out it seems.) |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:53:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C-4: Sig Sauer Academy teaches to constantly re-evaluate the situation. Like you said, as you draw, the attacker may immediately change their actions to where you don’t have to shoot. That is basic use of force training 101. True for all levels of force. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:56:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: runcible]
[#30]
Lots of people think guns are magic wands, and just pointing them at people will get them to do what you want.
These types of people pull guns they aren't prepared to use all the time. It often does not work out for them. I had an elderly friend who wanted advice on guns. I advised him he'd better not pull it on an intruder, thinking he was gonna scare them off. I explained to him, the first thought going through the head of any serious criminal will be, "This old man ain't gonna shoot me." I told him, you pull the gun on an intruder, you go to work, or they're gonna take it away from you and kill you with it. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:58:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Turn it around - what should your response be if someone pulls a gun on you.
That is your answer. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 2:59:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Efl15: Can person with below normal IQ buy gun? No, they issue them to police. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 3:03:05 PM EDT
[#33]
During the legal portion of my CCW class the assistant prosecuting attorney taught us to remember these words.
"Shoot ONLY when NOT SHOOTING is worse." If you're not flying headlong into that situation you probably shouldn't pull a gun. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 3:23:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Palm: There won’t be time for me to accurately process their intent and prevent my firearm from going bang. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Palm: Originally Posted By BURN: but as you draw they drop the knife are you still going to shoot them. That is the core question. There won’t be time for me to accurately process their intent and prevent my firearm from going bang. then for some situations you need to train more and go do some quality Force on Force training. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 3:25:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Facility112323: I get what your saying but don't agree with your analogy that you used. Because if someone ran at me with a knife regardless of trying to put it down I would have already shot because as the saying gose, I would rather be judged by twelve then carried by six. I have lived that exact scenario there was enough time for them to not only to drop the knife but for me to never have been within 21 feet of them. Had they been closer when it happened, and I noticed them I would probably have ended up shooting them. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 3:29:06 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dorobuta: Turn it around - what should your response be if someone pulls a gun on you. That is your answer. It depends If a bad guy pulls a gun on me at the earliest possibility I would seek cover while drawing and firing. But sometimes the deadly threat might not be a gun, or I might not be the intended target and in both situations, I might be able to deescalate the situation after I draw my gun. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 3:39:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ARDunstan: I'll take "People are retards" for $500, Alex.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 3:46:00 PM EDT
[#38]
I especially like stories of drawing down on a dog. As if a dog knows what a gun is.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 3:55:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BURN: then for some situations you need to train more and go do some quality Force on Force training. No I don’t, I look on my firearm as an exit strategy; I have no illusions of being a white night. I have excellent situation awareness. What I do best is avoiding situations where an armed conflict would be an option. I grew up and have lived in places where it was dangerous and have faced evil. I know what it is and how it behaves. The best defense is situational awareness and avoiding dangerous situations. I intentionally live in a neighborhood and city that has a very low crime rate. Things happen and things change quickly. Hesitation will get you killed. I am neither a victim nor a predator; I just want to be left alone. When I feel threatened I position myself such that I can ambush if necessary as I actively leave. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 4:01:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: liber45]
[#40]
 |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 4:03:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Seems to be pretty clear advice to those who think that by pulling the gun the bad guy will simply vanish and they wont have to pull the trigger.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 4:07:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Palm: No I don’t, I look on my firearm as an exit strategy; I have no illusions of being a white night. I have excellent situation awareness. What I do best is avoiding situations where an armed conflict would be an option. I grew up and have lived in places where it was dangerous and have faced evil. I know what it is and how it behaves. The best defense is situational awareness and avoiding dangerous situations. I intentionally live in a neighborhood and city that has a very low crime rate. Things happen and things change quickly. Hesitation will get you killed. I am neither a victim nor a predator; I just want to be left alone. When I feel threatened I position myself such that I can ambush if necessary as I actively leave. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Palm: Originally Posted By BURN: then for some situations you need to train more and go do some quality Force on Force training. No I don’t, I look on my firearm as an exit strategy; I have no illusions of being a white night. I have excellent situation awareness. What I do best is avoiding situations where an armed conflict would be an option. I grew up and have lived in places where it was dangerous and have faced evil. I know what it is and how it behaves. The best defense is situational awareness and avoiding dangerous situations. I intentionally live in a neighborhood and city that has a very low crime rate. Things happen and things change quickly. Hesitation will get you killed. I am neither a victim nor a predator; I just want to be left alone. When I feel threatened I position myself such that I can ambush if necessary as I actively leave. That must mean you are damn near tactically omnipotent. Because you can never foresee an instance where the presentation of deadly force deescalates a situation. You believe it's either get away or shoot with nothing in-between ever. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 4:28:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Efl15: Can person with below normal IQ buy gun? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Efl15: Originally Posted By joker581: I love this site but I have reason to believe that some of the people here might not be the best and brightest that society has to offer. Can person with below normal IQ buy gun? |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:04:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dorobuta]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BURN: It depends If a bad guy pulls a gun on me at the earliest possibility I would seek cover while drawing and firing. But sometimes the deadly threat might not be a gun, or I might not be the intended target and in both situations, I might be able to deescalate the situation after I draw my gun. In your thread, we are discussing pulling a gun. If a firearm is presented, what should the response be? I.e.: what should you be prepared to do? If you aren’t prepared mentally, physically, and equipped to do the needful, should you even be armed? Yes, there are many scenarios, but I suggested flipping the script for the sake of a clear argument. Those rules may be applied to you, if you draw a gun. You may be mistakenly targeted by a good guy… What are you willing to do? If you’re not prepared to act, why carry a weapon? |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:10:01 PM EDT
[#45]
It means you should have decided to shoot before you began the draw.
Kharn |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:13:23 PM EDT
[#46]
You draw your firearm when deadly force is justified.
If deadly force is justified and you draw your weapon...why are you not firing, unless it's unsafe I suppose. |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:24:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tc556guy: Seems to be pretty clear advice to those who think that by pulling the gun the bad guy will simply vanish and they wont have to pull the trigger. That's why you need a shotgun. All you have to do is rack it and the perp will shit himself. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:29:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BURN: No disagrement But people on this site say that if you draw a gun and don't pull the trigger "the threat wasn't real enough" to draw the gun. i've never seen anyone post that. exactly the opposite - for example, in the 'street crime and you' thread, the OP specifically says to draw early, and if nothing happens, holster. the point is that you draw in response to threat, and if the threat actualizes, you shoot. that decision needs to be made before drawing: "if that guy continues to advance, i shoot." if not, then not. my only experience was a guy climbing over my 3rd floor balcony. as i brought the gun up, i decided that i would light him up with the WML, and if he got his hips over the railing, it was go time. fortunately he freaked out and jumped off the side of the building when i hit the strobe. i'm no gunfighter, but in hindsight i was ok with my decision-making: simple, clear if/thens. i like to think i would have followed through, but of course it's impossible to know. anyway, i'll try to do the same thing next time - have the gun out early with a clear idea of when to fire. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:32:48 PM EDT
[#49]
To me it means if the opponent calls you on it and you're really just bluffing, you're gonna be in for a bad time. I do NOT think it means that if you pull the gun you are definitely shooting.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 8:34:17 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bronsonburner: To me it means if the opponent calls you on it and you're really just bluffing, you're gonna be in for a bad time. I do NOT think it means that if you pull the gun you are definitely shooting. |
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