User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:14:33 PM EDT
By Bill Kirk, Washington Gun Law.
Good info. on what to do to protect yourself after a lawful self-defense shooting. I attend his self-defense law class once a year. Last year, I asked him what to do in a self-defense situation in the home, when using a long gun or not wearing a holster, if the perp is down but not out, to avoid getting shot by the police. I don't want to be holding a firearm when the cops come in the front door and I don't want to set it down anywhere in case the perp makes a grab for it. The answer? When the cops show up but before they enter the home, put it on the floor and stand on it. The retired police officer who was the co-instructor agreed.  What To Do and Not Do Immediately Following a Self-Defense Shooting |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:17:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing taking pictures like this is frowned upon?
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:28:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lighthammer72: Haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing taking pictures like this is frowned upon? https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/btth/images/premium-buck-deer.jpg  I think that would qualify under the "Don't mess with the evidence" portion of his talk. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:29:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lighthammer72: Haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing taking pictures like this is frowned upon? https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/btth/images/premium-buck-deer.jpg Nice rack, by the way. 
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USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:31:25 PM EDT
[#4]
If not in a riot area attempt to render some kind of aid...malice is a helluva thing to jurors
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:32:49 PM EDT
[#5]
And don't forget:
1. Don't talk to the cops 2. See rule 1. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:36:24 PM EDT
[#6]
I remember asking my CPL instructor 25-28 years ago during a Q&A session if it was okay to just use a toe tag on someone if I was running late for work or something. The room lost it, he stood there was his mouth open not believing what he was hearing.
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ID, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:37:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lighthammer72: Haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing taking pictures like this is frowned upon? https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/btth/images/premium-buck-deer.jpg I approve |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:43:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: doc540]
[#8]
Do NOT CALL AND TALK TO 911.
The cops run it and record everything. If you shoot an attacker, and they're able to throw THEIR gun under a house, DO NOT TELL THE COPS WHERE IT IS. If the stress of the event causes you serious health problems, DO NOT TELL THE COPS OR EMS. They work together. If the cops arrive and ask, "which way did they run?", DO NOT ANSWER THEM. If someone else is hurt, a family member has been shot, or your neighbor is bleeding out in the garage, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. Even if you think you should tell them you are calling your lawyer before anything else happens, DO NOT TELL THEM. THEY'RE COPS. These are the SMART things to do after a self defense shooting because GD SAID SO. 
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:44:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Repeat after me: i was in fear for my life.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:54:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By solid: Repeat after me: i was in fear for my life. I will answer questions with my lawyer present. No lawyer on planet earth will be happy with you having diarrhea of the mouth. Shut your pie hole until you get competent legal representation. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:55:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Officer will you tell the court what you observed when you arrived on the scene. Yes sir I observed Mr.Jones sitting on the floor he appeared to be upset repeating the same phrase over and over. And what was he saying Officer?
“I thought he was going to kill me” “I thought he was going to kill me” “I thought he was going to kill me” |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:55:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: D_J]
[#12]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:58:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Do NOT CALL AND TALK TO 911. The cops run it and record everything. If you shoot an attacker, and they're able to throw THEIR gun under a house, DO NOT TELL THE COPS WHERE IT IS. If the stress of the event causes you serious health problems, DO NOT TELL THE COPS OR EMS. They work together. If the cops arrive and ask, "which way did they run?", DO NOT ANSWER THEM. If someone else is hurt, a family member has been shot, or your neighbor is bleeding out in the garage, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. Even if you think you should tell them you are calling your lawyer before anything else happens, DO NOT TELL THEM. THEY'RE COPS. These are the SMART things to do after a self defense shooting because GD SAID SO. You really had me going until the last line. Well done, Sir! |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 7:01:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaliContractor: I will answer questions with my lawyer present. No lawyer on planet earth will be happy with you having diarrhea of the mouth. Shut your pie hole until you get competent legal representation. I had a lawyer years ago who had two rate structures. One for clients who did not talk to the cops and a second one, two-and-a-half times higher, for clients who did talk to the cops. I thought it was sheer genius as a way of motivating his client to keep their mouths shut. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 7:01:52 PM EDT
[#15]
I know three people who had to get it on as victims or robbery.
One didn’t stick around. The next day detectives knocked on his door to return his wallet and watch and told him to have a nice day. That was the end of it. Another was an attempted car jacking at knifepoint. The victim shot the turd multiple times and drove away with a steak knife stuck in his thigh. He called his buddy whose dad is a doctor. Dad took care of the injury. That was the end of it. Cops never talked to him. Another friend was mugged by two guys. One had a pistol grip shotgun. He shot both of them. Called the police and one of those self defense insurance companies that he had prepaid. One of the well known ones. The police cuffed him and put him in a cage car and took him to the police station. He said they were very polite to him and advised him not to say anything until his lawyer arrived. They did not question him. When the lawyer arrived he was released. No charges were filed. He went home the same day. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 7:03:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner: I know three people who had to get it on as victims or robbery. One didn’t stick around. The next day detectives knocked on his door to return his wallet and watch and told him to have a nice day. That was the end of it. Another was an attempted car jacking at knifepoint. The victim shot the turd multiple times and drove away with a steak knife stuck in his thigh. He called his buddy whose dad is a doctor. Dad took care of the injury. That was the end of it. Cops never talked to him. Another friend was mugged by two guys. One had a pistol grip shotgun. He shot both of them. Called the police and one of those self defense insurance companies that he had prepaid. One of the well known ones. The police cuffed him and put him in a cage car and took him to the police station. He said they were very polite to him and advised him not to say anything until his lawyer arrived. They did not question him. When the lawyer arrived he was released. No charges were filed. He went home the same day. I like hearing that. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 7:50:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xCLAYBUSTERx: I remember asking my CPL instructor 25-28 years ago during a Q&A session if it was okay to just use a toe tag on someone if I was running late for work or something. The room lost it, he stood there was his mouth open not believing what he was hearing. What's interesting is that 25-28 years later, you still share that. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 8:02:29 PM EDT
[#18]
I know of a dozen shootings where people talked to police without a lawyer.
Never charged, never arrested, never handcuffed. It depends on your location. NYC that is probably superb advice. And no, repeating “I was in fear for my life” because a 12 year old went into your yard to get his ball ain’t some magical spell to avoid charges. Obviously each scenario is different but a guy who kicked in your door to burglarize and catches a 55grain Com is a bit different than chasing down kids who egged your house. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 8:06:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: I know of a dozen shootings where people talked to police without a lawyer. Never charged, never arrested, never handcuffed. It depends on your location. NYC that is probably superb advice. And no, repeating “I was in fear for my life” because a 12 year old went into your yard to get his ball ain’t some magical spell to avoid charges. Obviously each scenario is different but a guy who kicked in your door to burglarize and catches a 55grain Com is a bit different than chasing down kids who egged your house. What if the little bastards are russians? |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 8:10:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By McGuy: What if the little bastards are russians? Immaterial. You don’t shoot people over non violent crimes. Just like when dozens of Russians crossed the border illegall..they go through ice processing like everyone else |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 8:15:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By staringback05: If not in a riot area attempt to render some kind of aid...malice is a helluva thing to jurors |
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USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 8:18:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Do NOT CALL AND TALK TO 911. The cops run it and record everything. If you shoot an attacker, and they're able to throw THEIR gun under a house, DO NOT TELL THE COPS WHERE IT IS. If the stress of the event causes you serious health problems, DO NOT TELL THE COPS OR EMS. They work together. If the cops arrive and ask, "which way did they run?", DO NOT ANSWER THEM. If someone else is hurt, a family member has been shot, or your neighbor is bleeding out in the garage, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. Even if you think you should tell them you are calling your lawyer before anything else happens, DO NOT TELL THEM. THEY'RE COPS. These are the SMART things to do after a self defense shooting because GD SAID SO. This is solid advice. Never tell the cops anything. You don’t want them thinking you just murdered someone. Stand there next to the dead body and don’t say anything. That’s not suspicious, it’s your right as an American. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 8:34:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Immaterial. You don’t shoot people over non violent crimes. Just like when dozens of Russians crossed the border illegall..they go through ice processing like everyone else Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By McGuy: What if the little bastards are russians? Immaterial. You don’t shoot people over non violent crimes. Just like when dozens of Russians crossed the border illegall..they go through ice processing like everyone else Correction. *you* don't shoot people over nonviolent crimes. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 8:48:30 PM EDT
[#24]
High fiving the cops and signing that you got a CONUS kill is likely a bad thing.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:13:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sandboxmedic]
[#25]
I realize the post above was in jest (or assume it was), but let me just repeat the part about not talking to EMS (or any medical people including the ER staff) about the shooting other than what is directly related to their part of the situation, i.e. do tell them any and all injuries you have or think you may have, do tell them any medical history, your meds and allergies, etc. Some EMS people are great, most are normal people, and far more than you'd think are scumbags who may be excited to help jam you up or may unintentionally say something stupid when interviewed by the cops or called to the witness stand.
I purposefully do not ask about the shooting other than as it directly relates to my job- when the cops or a lawyer asks what you said in my presence I am not going to perjure myself for you. All I want to say is that you told me about any injuries, your health history, etc. and how I dealt with those. I'm not your priest, I have no idea how the situation looks to the cops (even if it's glaringly obvious), I'm not going to make any assumptions and I definitely don't want you saying something that I may have to relay that may cause you problems (unless you're the bad guy in the situation). The only two exception I can think of off the top of my head are a description of the bad guy that may help the cops catch the bad guy quicker if he got away or if there's a chance you're not going to make it and relaying information may somehow help. If you start talking, I will advise you that my paperwork is going to get reviewed, I will be interviewed by the cops as to what you said in my presence and I may get subpoenaed to testify in court so you need to stop talking to anyone about the events until you talk to your lawyer- especially before giving any statements. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:16:03 PM EDT
[#26]
They should also tell the first police officer that shows up “This was my first shooting officer how did I do? Followed by he had it coming)!
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:19:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Do NOT CALL AND TALK TO 911. The cops run it and record everything. If you shoot an attacker, and they're able to throw THEIR gun under a house, DO NOT TELL THE COPS WHERE IT IS. If the stress of the event causes you serious health problems, DO NOT TELL THE COPS OR EMS. They work together. If the cops arrive and ask, "which way did they run?", DO NOT ANSWER THEM. If someone else is hurt, a family member has been shot, or your neighbor is bleeding out in the garage, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. Even if you think you should tell them you are calling your lawyer before anything else happens, DO NOT TELL THEM. THEY'RE COPS. These are the SMART things to do after a self defense shooting because GD SAID SO. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Originally Posted By CaliContractor: I will answer questions with my lawyer present. No lawyer on planet earth will be happy with you having diarrhea of the mouth. Shut your pie hole until you get competent legal representation. Do NOT CALL AND TALK TO 911. The cops run it and record everything. If you shoot an attacker, and they're able to throw THEIR gun under a house, DO NOT TELL THE COPS WHERE IT IS. If the stress of the event causes you serious health problems, DO NOT TELL THE COPS OR EMS. They work together. If the cops arrive and ask, "which way did they run?", DO NOT ANSWER THEM. If someone else is hurt, a family member has been shot, or your neighbor is bleeding out in the garage, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS. Even if you think you should tell them you are calling your lawyer before anything else happens, DO NOT TELL THEM. THEY'RE COPS. These are the SMART things to do after a self defense shooting because GD SAID SO.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:21:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CAsoldier: This is solid advice. Never tell the cops anything. You don’t want them thinking you just murdered someone. Stand there next to the dead body and don’t say anything. That’s not suspicious, it’s your right as an American. GD Legal Services approved |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:22:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sandboxmedic: I realize the post above was in jest (or assume it was), but let me just repeat the part about not talking to EMS (or any medical people including the ER staff) about the shooting other than what is directly related to their part of the situation, i.e. do tell them any and all injuries you have or think you may have, do tell them any medical history, your meds and allergies, etc. Some EMS people are great, most are normal people, and far more than you'd think are scumbags who may be excited to help jam you up or may unintentionally say something stupid when interviewed by the cops or called to the witness stand. I purposefully do not ask about the shooting other than as it directly relates to my job- when the cops or a lawyer asks what you said in my presence I am not going to perjure myself for you. All I want to say is that you told me about any injuries, your health history, etc. and how I dealt with those. I'm not your priest, I have no idea how the situation looks to the cops (even if it's glaringly obvious), I'm not going to make any assumptions and I definitely don't want you saying something that I may have to relay that may cause you problems (unless you're the bad guy in the situation). The only two exception I can think of off the top of my head are a description of the bad guy that may help the cops catch the bad guy quicker if he got away or if there's a chance you're not going to make it and relaying information may somehow help. If you start talking, I will advise you that my paperwork is going to get reviewed, I will be interviewed by the cops as to what you said in my presence and I may get subpoenaed to testify in court so you need to stop talking to anyone about the events until you talk to your lawyer- especially before giving any statements. Solid advice. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:23:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ronin72]
[#30]
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:23:59 PM EDT
[#31]
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USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:27:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Alwaysright]
[#32]
Came across this and thought it was interesting.
Massad Ayoob Explains Why You Should Make A Brief Statement. https://youtube.com/shorts/kS0LDEUO0x4?si=99w1wX9JNkisA6-Y |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:39:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Florida members: don't follow legal advice from a non-Florida lawyer. Instead figure out who is a knowledgeable self defense criminal attorney in your area or region. Schedule some time with that attorney to talk about do's and don't's based on his or her experience in Florida courtrooms with Florida law and SAOs near you. Maybe even offer to pay for 30 minutes or and hour for this conversation. Maybe cost you $150 or so for 30 minutes.
You'll learn a lot more practical information than a video by an attorney who doesn't know what an information is or the various types of SYG defenses allowed by statute, case law, and the rules of criminal procedure. This is not meant to disparage what the video in the OP says. It's just not Florida law. That's your pro-bono minute. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:41:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: Correction. *you* don't shoot people over nonviolent crimes. People who don't want to wind up sharing a prison cell with other murderers don't. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:41:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaliContractor: I will answer questions with my lawyer present. No lawyer on planet earth will be happy with you having diarrhea of the mouth. Shut your pie hole until you get competent legal representation. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaliContractor: Originally Posted By solid: Repeat after me: i was in fear for my life. I will answer questions with my lawyer present. No lawyer on planet earth will be happy with you having diarrhea of the mouth. Shut your pie hole until you get competent legal representation. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:45:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iwouldntknow: Correction. *you* don't shoot people over nonviolent crimes. So, elderly people who can't run or fight should wait until the crime becomes violent? Sounds like an excellent idea. Tell me how that works. Thanks |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:49:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: So, elderly people who can't run or fight should wait until the crime becomes violent? Sounds like an excellent idea. Tell me how that works. Thanks Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Originally Posted By iwouldntknow: Correction. *you* don't shoot people over nonviolent crimes. So, elderly people who can't run or fight should wait until the crime becomes violent? Sounds like an excellent idea. Tell me how that works. Thanks |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:52:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Don't advocate something this potentially stupid. Disparity of force is grounds for common law self defense and SYG in Florida. However, there has to be a legitimate fear of the requisite level of force/harm (at least in Florida). I'm in Texas, but I'm interested in Florida law, too. In Florida is "disparity of force" grounds for the use of deadly force for self defense? |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:53:44 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lighthammer72: Haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing taking pictures like this is frowned upon? https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/btth/images/premium-buck-deer.jpg That's what they did with Pablo. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:54:02 PM EDT
[#40]
That is the most retarded advice ever.
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:54:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 56xdx_Z]
[#41]
"I was the victim of a crime"
"I must speak to my lawyer before telling you what that crime was" seems like the lawyers know that you will tell the police your story no matter what they say, and by drilling that into peoples heads, they are reducing the amount you'll talk. If you fuck up and say something like "He disrespected me", even if that was part of the backstory and not pertinent to the shooting, some DA can use it out of context. The more you talk, the more a borderline low IQ DA whose dad wasn't a big enough freemason to send him to fed school can copy paste stuff out of order. That phrase is exactly what nailed Chai Vang in wisconsin. But I think you would still need to tell the police how you were the victim of a crime, without story telling |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:58:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 103]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: I'm in Texas, but I'm interested in Florida law, too. In Florida is "disparity of force" grounds for the use of deadly force for self defense? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Originally Posted By 103: Don't advocate something this potentially stupid. Disparity of force is grounds for common law self defense and SYG in Florida. However, there has to be a legitimate fear of the requisite level of force/harm (at least in Florida). I'm in Texas, but I'm interested in Florida law, too. In Florida is "disparity of force" grounds for the use of deadly force for self defense? I once worked a SD claim shooting case in tandem with another prosecutor (back when I was one). A weighed about tripled of B. A had knocked B down onto a curb and was standing over B ready to (presumably) curb stomp B. B shot A. We both agreed as soon as we saw to scale pictures of A and B that is was a good shoot based on disparity of force and the reasonable belief by B that A was about to use deadly force. If A and B had been evenly matched, the scenario would likely have played out differently. ETA: A survived. We prosecuted him for simple battery (a misdemeanor). |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:02:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 103: Read what I wrote. Short answer is yes. I once worked a SD claim shooting case in tandem with another prosecutor (back when I was one). A weighed about tripled of B. A had knocked B down onto a curb and was standing over B ready to (presumably) curb stomp B. B shot A. We both agreed as soon as we saw to scale pictures of A and B that is was a good shoot based on disparity of force and the reasonable belief by B that A was about to use deadly force. If A and B had been evenly matched, the scenario would likely have played out differently. ETA: A survived. We prosecuted him for simple battery (a misdemeanor). I did read what you wrote and didn't understand it. That's why I asked the question. And I couldn't find a sarcasm emoji when I replied to "iwouldntknow's" post above. 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:05:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lighthammer72: Haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing taking pictures like this is frowned upon? https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/btth/images/premium-buck-deer.jpg ROTFL Thanks for the laugh, needed that |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:10:47 PM EDT
[#45]
STFU and call CCW safe.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:16:20 PM EDT
[#46]
The Sheriff Deputy that taught my NC CHP class said if you are involved in a shooting to make sure your story is the only one to be heard meaning that you shoot to kill. He also said other than making the statement that you were in fear for your life not to say anything with out your attorney present
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:17:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lighthammer72: Haven't watched the video yet, but I'm guessing taking pictures like this is frowned upon? https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/btth/images/premium-buck-deer.jpg What's wrong with that deer? He don't look too good. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:23:20 PM EDT
[#48]
This thread again.
Basically, shut the fuck up, and don't be there when the police get there. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:26:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: By Bill Kirk, Washington Gun Law. Good info. on what to do to protect yourself after a lawful self-defense shooting. I attend his self-defense law class once a year. Last year, I asked him what to do in a self-defense situation in the home, when using a long gun or not wearing a holster, if the perp is down but not out, to avoid getting shot by the police. I don't want to be holding a firearm when the cops come in the front door and I don't want to set it down anywhere in case the perp makes a grab for it. The answer? When the cops show up but before they enter the home, put it on the floor and stand on it. The retired police officer who was the co-instructor agreed.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEaUxiVAhJ4I have a customer that was represented by Kirk. He was the lawyer that was provided by the Concealed Carry Association type CCW insurance. The shooter was a bouncer at a bar in Spokane and was jumped by 3 guys he was escorting out. One pulled a knife and got himself vented. The bouncer had nothing but great things to say about Kirk. The WA legal system, not so much. He said without Kirk he would probably still be in jail. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:28:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Situation is flawed—“if he is down and not out”
Make sure he is down AND out |
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