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Posted: 2/13/2024 11:37:21 AM EDT
2Pe_3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Eph_1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

‘All things’ in the original Greek meaning ‘everything, the whole’.

So, If God is not willing that any should perish, and he does work everything, which would include salvation, after his will, then that means everyone will be saved, Right?
Link Posted: 2/13/2024 1:10:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EastWest] [#1]
Jesus speaks of hell in the New Testament a number of times. Here are three.

Matthew 25:41 ESV
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 10:28 ESV  
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 23:33 ESV
You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?

Also, in the Old and New Testaments, the word "elect" in Scripture from the Catholic Answers website:
 

Elect denotes in general one chosen or taken by preference from among two or more; as a theological term it is equivalent to “chosen as the object of mercy or Divine favor, as set apart for eternal life”. In order to determine the meaning of the word more accurately, we shall have to study its usage both in the Old Testament and the New.

I. THE OLD TESTAMENT applies the term elect, or chosen, only to the Israelites in as far as they are called to be the people of God, or are faithful to their Divine call. The idea of such an election is common in the Book of Deuteronomy and in Is., xl-lxvi. In Ps. civ, 6 and 43, and cv, 5, the chosen ones are the Hebrew people in as far as it is the recipient of God‘s temporal and spiritual blessings; in Is., lxv, 9, 15, and 23, they are the repentant Israelites, as few in number “as if a grain be found in a cluster” (ibid., 8); in Tob., xiii, 10, they are the Israelites remaining faithful during their captivity; in Wisd., iii, 9, and iv, 15, they are God‘s true servants; in Ecclus., xxiv, 4, 13, and xlvi, 2, these servants of God belong to the chosen people.

II. THE NEW TESTAMENT transfers (excepting perhaps in Acts, xiii, 17) the meaning of the term from its connection with the people of Israel to the members of the Church of Christ, either militant on earth or triumphant in heaven. Thus I Pet., i, 1, speaks of the elect among the “strangers dispersed” through the various parts of the world; I Pet., ii, 9, represents them as “a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people”, called from darkness into God‘s marvellous light. St. Paul, too, speaks of the elect (Rom., viii, 33) and describes the five degrees of their election: they are foreknown, predestined, called, justified, and glorified (loc. cit., 29, 30). He returns to the idea again and again: II Thess., ii, 12 sq.; Col., iii, 12; Tit., i, 1, 2; II Tim., ii, 10. St. John gives the title of elect to those who fight on the side of the Lamb against the powers of darkness (Apoc., xvii, 14). According to St. Luke (xviii, 7), God hears the cries of his elect for vengeance; according to the first two Evangelists he will shorten the last days for the sake of the elect (Matt., xxiv, 22, 24, 31; Mark, xiii, 20, 22, 27).

If it be asked why the name elect was given to the members of the Church Militant, we may assign a double reason: first, they were freely chosen by God‘s goodness (Rom., xi, 5-7, 28); secondly, they must show in their conduct that they are choice men (Ephes.) iv, 17). In the sentence “many are called, but few are chosen”, the latter expression renders a word in the Greek and Latin text which is elsewhere translated by elect (Matt., xx, 16; xxii, 14). It is agreed on all sides that the term refers to members of the Church Triumphant, but there is some doubt as to whether it refers to mere membership, or to a more exalted degree. This distinction is important; if the word implies mere membership in the Church Triumphant, then the chosen ones, or those who will be saved, are few, and the non-members in the Church Triumphant are many; if the word denotes a special degree of glory, then few will attain this rank, and many will fail to do so, though many are called to it. The sentence “many are called, but few chosen” does not, therefore, settle the question as to the relative number of the elect and the lost; theologians are divided on this point, and while Christ in the Gospels urges the importance of saving one’s soul (Luke, xiii, 23, 24), he alternately so strengthens our hope and excites our fear as not to leave us any solid ground for either presumption or despair.

A. J. MAAS  (author)


Link Posted: 2/13/2024 3:10:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Gullskjegg] [#2]
Originally Posted By Sanelo:
2Pe_3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Eph_1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

‘All things’ in the original Greek meaning ‘everything, the whole’.

So, If God is not willing that any should perish, and he does work everything, which would include salvation, after his will, then that means everyone will be saved, Right?
View Quote


He would love for us all to be saved, doesn't mean we accept Him and are.

Universal Salvation means Jesus is a liar.

Eph_1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

We have free will and we don't have to subscribe to the inheritance of eternal life with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, although He knows whether we will or will not.

It's an interesting insight into the fact that we do have free will, but that also God knows all things, past, present, and future.  Pure intellect, he knows the trajectory of the world, though needs it not for He is outside of time and the master of time and space.
Link Posted: 2/13/2024 4:24:53 PM EDT
[#3]

God wants all to be saved, which occurs only thru faith in Jesus Christ. However, He honors the choices of those that don’t.

There is no universal salvation.  There is also no double predestination.
Link Posted: 2/13/2024 4:43:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FennRx:


God wants all to be saved, which occurs only thru faith in Jesus Christ. However, He honors the choices of those that don’t.

There is no universal salvation.  There is also no double predestination.
View Quote


This.
Link Posted: 2/13/2024 6:57:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FennRx:


God wants all to be saved, which occurs only thru faith in Jesus Christ. However, He honors the choices of those that don’t.

There is no universal salvation.  There is also no double predestination.
View Quote

I agree.

Philippians 2: 9-15: 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world..
Link Posted: 2/13/2024 11:19:32 PM EDT
[#6]
From the scripture quoted in the OP I interpreted that meant a universal opportunity for salvation. But we sinners must, of our own free will, accept the offer of salvation through and from Jesus.
Link Posted: 2/14/2024 10:32:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By Sanelo:
2Pe_3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Eph_1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

‘All things’ in the original Greek meaning ‘everything, the whole’.

So, If God is not willing that any should perish, and he does work everything, which would include salvation, after his will, then that means everyone will be saved, Right?
View Quote

Only those whose name is written in the Book of Life.
Link Posted: 2/15/2024 9:41:14 AM EDT
[#8]
one of the most important Tulsa ministers at the top of his game had this Universal Salvation vision and suddenly changed gears on everyone.

he lost it all. had to move away.

Bishop Carlton Pearson.

he was an evangelical favorite. then jumped off the cliff with Universal Salvation.
Link Posted: 2/26/2024 12:01:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Anyone that teaches "universal salvation" is teaching a very false gospel.
Link Posted: 2/26/2024 2:19:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OKnativeson:
one of the most important Tulsa ministers at the top of his game had this Universal Salvation vision and suddenly changed gears on everyone.

he lost it all. had to move away.

Bishop Carlton Pearson.

he was an evangelical favorite. then jumped off the cliff with Universal Salvation.
View Quote


ORU graduate school of theology here. I remember Carlton Pearson. Out of all of the various ministries and names that vied for attention and prominence around the Tulsa area, he was one of the talking heads. I stopped paying attention to him and others when I could not ignore some of the things that they were teaching in their sermons.
Link Posted: 2/28/2024 11:51:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By monadh:


ORU graduate school of theology here. I remember Carlton Pearson. Out of all of the various ministries and names that vied for attention and prominence around the Tulsa area, he was one of the talking heads. I stopped paying attention to him and others when I could not ignore some of the things that they were teaching in their sermons.
View Quote



you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting him at any religious event in Tulsa or North America for years. he got ran out of town on a train.
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