User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 4:47:35 PM EDT
So, on my last day playing in the machine shop my static phase converted let out the magic smoke, and now I am thinking its time to put a VFD on my Bridgeport.
Its a 1hp j-head Bridgeport, and I have 220v single phase feeding the old static converter. Any suggestions on what would be a good VFD to convert from single phase to 3 phase for my application? This is hobby use and not a daily use machine. We thinking something along these lines, but was looking for advise. https://www.taskindustrial.com/p/hitachi-model-wj200-007hf-1-hp-vfd/ 
|
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 4:56:33 PM EDT
[#1]
How many 3 phase machines do you have or are planning on getting? A rotary phase converter is an option if you plan on getting additional machines. I currently have 5 3 phase machines and I wired the converter in a central location to supply all of them. I know some people get the VFDs to control speed, but the standard speed range on a J head covers everything I have ever needed.
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 6:36:14 PM EDT
[#2]
I have a LeBlond on its own rotary convertor, but its noisy, and I think a VFD might be nice as I wouldn't have to hear the rotary convertor motor running the whole time.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 6:43:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: paul463]
[#3]
Mine has a 1.5 hp motor, I used a Teco Westinghouse L510.
 Attached File Attached FileI also have a slightly larger L510 on a 3hp belt grinder I built. No complaints. I had a 120 volt input Hitachi on my 1hp Millrite also. It worked fine, but I'm not sure they make that one anymore. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 8:01:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By paul463: Mine has a 1.5 hp motor, I used a Teco Westinghouse L510.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/109172/IMG_20240407_181215327_jpg-3181428.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/109172/IMG_20240407_181506853_HDR_jpg-3181431.JPG I also have a slightly larger L510 on a 3hp belt grinder I built. No complaints. I had a 120 volt input Hitachi on my 1hp Millrite also. It worked fine, but I'm not sure they make that one anymore. I've got TECO 510s on my 2hp Bridgeport clone and 3hp lathe. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 8:46:13 PM EDT
[#5]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/7/2024 9:10:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Im using one of these to run my Bridgeport.
https://phaseconverterusa.com/1--3-HP-HD-SCX-Static-Phase-Converter_p_13.html |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 9:54:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cjk: Im using one of these to run my Bridgeport. https://phaseconverterusa.com/1--3-HP-HD-SCX-Static-Phase-Converter_p_13.html Does that thing buzz when you turn off the mill like my phase-o-matic did all the time? Was fine till I powered it on and then off for the first time, and would sit there and buzz till power to it was eventually shut off at the end of the work. :) |
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 9:57:58 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Firearmsenthusiast: Buy this... https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/micro_vfds/cfw100c04p2s220g2 Do you need to oversize the capacity with a VFD like a static convertor? Curious if a 1hp VFD will work for my 1hp motor, or if I need slightly larger. Thanks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 10:25:05 AM EDT
[#9]
As long as the VFD is rated for 1ph in 3ph out, you just go with the rated HP.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 10:42:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OnyxSkyDV: I have a LeBlond on its own rotary convertor, but its noisy, and I think a VFD might be nice as I wouldn't have to hear the rotary convertor motor running the whole time. Rotary converters are a thing of the past. VFD's are cheap, and have the advantage of infinite speed control. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 10:49:06 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Firearmsenthusiast: Buy this... https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/micro_vfds/cfw100c04p2s220g2 That’s what I’ve run on mine for years. |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 11:30:24 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: Rotary converters are a thing of the past. VFD's are cheap, and have the advantage of infinite speed control. Since my j-head is step pully for the speeds, do you still have to change those around, or do you pick a middle setting and use the VFD for most speeds? (I assume for the lowest or highest speeds you would still want to move the belt around for best effect.)? Thanks for the info guys! |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 11:43:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OnyxSkyDV: Since my j-head is step pully for the speeds, do you still have to change those around, or do you pick a middle setting and use the VFD for most speeds? (I assume for the lowest or highest speeds you would still want to move the belt around for best effect.)? Thanks for the info guys! I'd use the pulleys for gross speed changes, and fine tune with the VFD |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 11:45:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: paul463]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OnyxSkyDV: Since my j-head is step pully for the speeds, do you still have to change those around, or do you pick a middle setting and use the VFD for most speeds? (I assume for the lowest or highest speeds you would still want to move the belt around for best effect.)? Thanks for the info guys! Mine is a step with the high speed head, 5440rpm topend. I'll have to double check but IIRC I'm on the second from the top with the belt and adjust it up and down from there. Between that and using the back gear when I need to I don't change the belt around very often . I try not to run it a real lot under 40hz, and never go over 60hz. |
|
|
|
AZ, USA
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 11:51:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By paul463: Mine is a step with the high speed head, 5440rpm topend. I'll have to double check but IIRC I'm on the second from the top with the belt and adjust it up and down from there. Between that and using the back gear when I need to I don't change the belt around very often . I try not to run it a real lot under 40hz, and never go over 60hz. You mention running under 40hz or over 60hz. Is that all clearly visable on the VFD display? Can you configure it so it won't do that, preventing human error, or not that big of a deal? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 12:55:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OnyxSkyDV: You mention running under 40hz or over 60hz. Is that all clearly visable on the VFD display? Can you configure it so it won't do that, preventing human error, or not that big of a deal? You can set it up pretty much any way you want. You can set a minimum and maximum Hz selectable with the dial or buttons, or you can lock it at 60hz and the motor will just run at the speed on the nameplate. The user manual that comes with the VFDs is kind of overwhelming at first but once you study it a bit everything makes sense. |
|
|
|
OR, USA
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 7:08:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Deerhurst]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: Rotary converters are a thing of the past. VFD's are cheap, and have the advantage of infinite speed control. If it's a variable speed head a rotary is probably the best option since you'll run the VFD at 100% and use the variable head or lose power. I went rotary. The investment made sense. I run a 1.5HP BP and a Hardinge HLV on it. I have plenty of power left over to run a big band saw when I find one and the lathe and the mill at the same time for less than what I'd spend on wasting a VFD running my continuously variable machines. I push a single button on the wall and my buddies and I can all machine things at the same time. When I get the CNC I'm ready for that too. With a pulley slapper a VFD makes more sense. Especially if the only 3 phase machine. Coming from a static you might find more power. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 8:47:46 PM EDT
[#18]
My rule is usually 30-100 with no issues. I'm not doing any long runs or anything though.
Worst case if you blow the motor up you'll get a new motor that is drive compatible. 
|
|
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 9:39:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OnyxSkyDV: I have a LeBlond on its own rotary convertor, but its noisy, and I think a VFD might be nice as I wouldn't have to hear the rotary convertor motor running the whole time. My rotary is in the corner by the breaker panel. Turn it on and let it run. I can run all 5 machines off the same unit, from the 1 hp Bridgeport to the 5 hp machines. The Cincinnati running at 1100 rpm along with the coolant pump running is way louder than the phase converter, hell the radio is louder. All the 3 phase is hard wired to the machines, so it makes life much easier. I'm not sure about VFDs, but running true 3 phase over single uses about half the amps. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/8/2024 10:47:41 PM EDT
[#20]
I have an older South Bend lathe and Induma mill on a rotary converter, and seriously considering changing them both to VFD's simply to cut down on some of the noise.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/9/2024 9:29:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ske714]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: If it's a variable speed head a rotary is probably the best option since you'll run the VFD at 100% and use the variable head or lose power. I went rotary. The investment made sense. I run a 1.5HP BP and a Hardinge HLV on it. I have plenty of power left over to run a big band saw when I find one and the lathe and the mill at the same time for less than what I'd spend on wasting a VFD running my continuously variable machines. I push a single button on the wall and my buddies and I can all machine things at the same time. When I get the CNC I'm ready for that too. With a pulley slapper a VFD makes more sense. Especially if the only 3 phase machine. Coming from a static you might find more power. With a vfd, the motor has the same torque, regardless of the frequency. Yes, if you run a high gear and slow it down with the vfd, you'll have less power, but you can actually get substantially more power out of your machine by running it in a lower gear and running the motor faster than 60hz. Usually you have more power than you need, so the convenience of being able to dial it down is a good thing. You still have the power if you need it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/9/2024 3:36:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jason280: I have an older South Bend lathe and Induma mill on a rotary converter, and seriously considering changing them both to VFD's simply to cut down on some of the noise. I keep saying I'm going to put my 7.5hp idler in a doghouse outside the shop. For 4 years now. And I've had a brand new VFD I haven't taken out of the box yet for over a year. One day I'll have enough progress on projects I can try to get ahead. One day. |
|
|
|
OR, USA
|
Posted: 4/9/2024 4:40:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: With a vfd, the motor has the same torque, regardless of the frequency. Yes, if you run a high gear and slow it down with the vfd, you'll have less power, but you can actually get substantially more power out of your machine by running it in a lower gear and running the motor faster than 60hz. Usually you have more power than you need, so the convenience of being able to dial it down is a good thing. You still have the power if you need it. Outside of the efficiency range of the motor you generate excessive heat and reduced power. At high rpm it's not really as much more torque as more inertia. Not to mention power consumption rather than running at an efficient RPM for the motor. I run variable machines so my only experience with vfds and motors is my job. We found more failures due to vfds. Often it was breaking failures due to the frequencies powering the motors. Companies make and sell bushes for the output shaft to ground out some of these charges created that crater bearings. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/9/2024 11:22:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AFCarbon15: I keep saying I'm going to put my 7.5hp idler in a doghouse outside the shop. For 4 years now. And I've had a brand new VFD I haven't taken out of the box yet for over a year. One day I'll have enough progress on projects I can try to get ahead. One day. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2024 6:08:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MethaneMover]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: With a vfd, the motor has the same torque, regardless of the frequency. Here's a simple graph showing the relationship. Actual performance isn't nearly so linear, but this displays the concept.  Attached FileMember JST of Practical Machinist: The reason the drop happens in general is that you "run out of voltage", so there is no more current available, the volts/Hz is getting lower as frequency increases. So current, and thus torque, drops off as frequency increases, but rpm goes up. As long as that is true, then the motor is in the constant HP range, because the two are generally proportional, and the product of them stays the same once you are well beyond 60 Hz. In the range just above 60 Hz, the motor characteristics control how fast torque drops, how much slip, etc, etc.. It probably will not be constant HP until a higher frequency. Eventually, you drop below even constant HP, because the motor impedance is high enough that it becomes a factor. Exactly where and especially how the current drops off depends on how the motor is made. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2024 6:45:22 AM EDT
[#26]
We have been installing Invertek drives and they have been really good for the price point.
https://www.wolfautomation.com/brands/invertek/?_bc_fsnf=1&category=42 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2024 9:57:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OnyxSkyDV: Does that thing buzz when you turn off the mill like my phase-o-matic did all the time? Was fine till I powered it on and then off for the first time, and would sit there and buzz till power to it was eventually shut off at the end of the work. :) Nope, its silent. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
